Tani of the Season

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 09 Jan 2007, 07:41

Thanks Raja - once again, very educational

Yes.one of the finest posts I have read, in a long long time.

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 09 Jan 2007, 08:20

coolkarni sir, can i request you to give us a Raghu Sir - Harisankar performance, if available non commercial? should be fun

MANNARGUDIYAAN · Post by **MANNARGUDIYAAN** » 09 Jan 2007, 10:38

dear gsn,

i am sorry if i am wrong.....

why there is no sir after palani anna and upendran mama?

if it is respect and a distance makes you tag a sir to others, then what intimacy would carry?

but, congrats for seeding an interesting discussion...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 09 Jan 2007, 11:18

gsn wrote:Speaking of Harishankar, I was listening to an old TNS concert last night where he is accompanied by Sri CSM and Harishankar. The thani for "Kamalambam Bhajare" is simply monstrous; Hariji, at some places, is just unstoppable, even outdoing the great CSM!
-g

This must be Carnatica's latest release also featuring an RTP in Malahari - the Kalyani is just mind-boggling. TNS fans, go grab it! Sorry for diverting the thread!

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 09 Jan 2007, 11:58

mahavishnu wrote:Balaji-sir, I have question about a more practical matter. In recent years I have noticed that the thoppi of the mridangam tends to be miked and amplified on a regular basis. This is a welcome addition because the bass sound of the majestic instrument comes through very clearly, especially in recordings. In the 70's and 80s there was only one mike for the head of the mridangam but nothing was heard from the other side except through reverberations and other secondary reflections. If we look at concert pictures from even the early '70s or before, we see no microphone whatsoever for the mridangam on several occasions (not even for star vidwans like PMI/PSP).

This is a very difficult question for which i m also sailing in the same boat as yours. I have many vintage recordings and also spools which i converted personally, i am awed by the sound of the left right balance in those concerts with accent on bass at some places make me wonder where i lack ? what is the difference ? what was their strength, stamina, Eshwara kripa etc etc... ? so many thoughts come to my mind when i listen to those mikeless concerts where the vocal violin and mridangam all seem to be balanced. really admire those days. could be any of the following reasons (just conjecture):
1) The vocal mike was multi-directional unlike the usage of uni-directional mikes of the present day.
2) Of course old is gold. those mikes had better pick ups ...hahahahahah .. just joking. But certainly those mikes had some real worth to pick up all the sounds that occured on the stage. some real experts on microphones can throw some light on the technical aspects here.
3) moreover if you see those old photographs the artistes sit together very close to each other.
4) though mridangam works on reflection basis now a days due to uni directional mike system most of the sound nuances are not properly heard and also due to the fact that skilled workmanship on mridangam repair is also a case worth mentioning. i hv heard elder musicians say that Palghat Mani Iyer used to enquire the mridangam repairer before every fresh Mootu whether the cow or calf or buffallo, whose hide is being used, died naturally or died of a disease. Even Karaikkudi Mani Sir used to lament about these animals now a days eat only paper and not their usual fodder and thereby affecting the quality of the skin used. these apart all his mridangams are well made and well maintained. it is the most difficult job for any mridangist to maintain the instrument under such difficult conditions. With skilled artisans very few in number and whole percussion world flocking on them makes quality wane too.

mahavishnu wrote:Has this development affected the way vidwans structure their tanis and play for compositions (using more gumukki for e.g)? Can one's manodharma change depending on how clearly the audience can hear the "nadham" of the instrument?

Tanjore Upendran Sir in one of the YACM's lecture Demonstration pointed out "Mike is a necessary evil" in tamil he said "Anukoola chatru". But in the present day scenario i sincerely feel that mike is required to enhance the quality of the music and not the increase the sound of the instrument. It is also imperative on the part of the artiste that he should be sensitive to the surroundings on the stage and also of the ambience of the auditorium before adjusting to his own personal sound level. In this i admire vellore ramabadran sir. he will always play at his own comfort levels without affecting his body and mind and of course the concert. he will totally leave it to the discretion of the mike man to keep his levels and i have never seen him interfere with the sound levels. more so he will keep his mridangam nearest to the mike and play very soft. whereas UKS sir has a closed fist horizontal distance away from the instrument to the mike. all these techniques are quite contrasting. but in now way their manodharma is affected when they are on state. Manodharma is a state of mind and in now way connected with mike is what i sincerely feel. it is on a particular day the artiste state of mind, main singer's manodharma which kindles the manodharma of the accompanists and vice versa and other factors. mike i think is only a minor factor when MUSIC comes to the fore. Another question abt changing the manodharma if the audience can listen to the naadam:--- yes i thnk if they are able to listen to the pure sound of the instrument and if they are also comfortable we can really produce excellent music.
have i answered ?
thnks
JB

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 09 Jan 2007, 12:04

Thank you, Balaji-sir. I appreciate your answer very much.

gsn · Post by **gsn** » 09 Jan 2007, 19:22

vijay--

actually the concert i refer to is a non-commercial one - RR Sabha 1984. it has kamalambam bhajare as main piece, and also a scintillating "brovavamma" in manji (great kalapramanam! CSM's strokes for this kriti are beautiful).

i think (if i remember right) that the Malahari pallavi concert has "ninnuvinagamari",doesn't it? thats a cracker of a concert too!

Mannargudiyaan --

good q on the omission of the sir! I can assure you its not due to any lack of respect. i read back and see that the deceased do not have a "sir" tag in front of them.

i need to analyse why i wrote it like that, heh. for now though, lets just add a sir for all those legends, shall we?

shapna · Post by **shapna** » 10 Jan 2007, 21:30

can neone tell about the best upapakkavadyam artistes of the season.....for kanjira, for ghatam, for morsing, & for wich concerts ..... cuz we generally get to kno abt the mridangists but many dont remember the upapakkavadyam artistes name xcept for very few....

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 11 Jan 2007, 10:57

Hmm...GNS, don't know about Ninnuvina Gamari - it has Bagaya Nayya, Sree raga Varnam, a song in Suddha Saveri among others besides Kalyani and Malahari - but the cover mentions that the contents are extracted from 2-3 concerts so you could be right. Pity Ninnu Vina Gamari has been left out!

Shapna we have discussed quite a few upapakkavayam artistes above - the Kanjira in particular is witnessing many blossoming talents like BSP, Sundar Kumar, Bangalore Amrit, KV Gopalakrishnan and young Abhishek and Anirudh Athreya, to name just a few

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 21 Jan 2007, 21:51

Dear All,

Pranams.

At the outset, I wish to thank Shri J.Balaji for his heartfelt wishes and views.

When one of my friend wrote me,that he saw something great about me in this forum, I was a lil-bit moved to hear that and when I went through it, joy enveloped me to have JB's views for a fellow mucisian.

Thank you... and... let me also join the jyoti of discussions.

Erode Nagaraj.

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 21 Jan 2007, 22:29

Dear mahavishnu,

Uks sir keeps mike in a distance only,since, he lifts his
hands in various angles according to what he plays. More over, his perfectly tuned vadyam enabling his nadham travel straight, is another reason that the mikes fail to reproduce the nuances and inner resonance that flow from his divine fingers.

I played for the inaguration of GMR VASAVI'S electrical plant(basin bridge). There they kept a shure mike which picked up even pin drops from 15inches distance!

Though harsh, the reallity that prevails in many places in our country is, the people who take care of sound system are neither sound engineers nor they have a remarkable knowledge in music.

As said by JB, unidirectonal mikes may be a problem. But, hear the sound balance in orchestras.... or stage performance of light music..... you may think, how come the same unidirection mikes serve properly for them!!

Amplification is subject to the fingering culture of a particular artiste. But unfortunately, like family doctors we can't keep family mike men! So, as an accompanying artiste, if I ask for a particular level of volume for thoppi and valanthalai.... it depends according to the artiste whom i play, whether vocal or instrumental, nature of the hall, the quality of the sound system, the number of rasikas and above all, for songs like maarubalka, hariharaputhram or padhavini...... the playing is different and for venkata saila or abhi maanamu ledha or krishna nee begane..... it differs.

One thing is certain......

"The sound is sound only and not music
when amplified a lot".

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 21 Jan 2007, 22:38

also.... thank you mannargudiyan sir..... for being concerned about accompanyig artistes....

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 21 Jan 2007, 22:46

Erode14,
Your certainty sounds like music to me. Yes, percussion instruments that 'sing' are music to my ears...

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 21 Jan 2007, 22:52

thank you.... thats why uks sir used to say, thani avarthanam is an extension of the song...

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 22 Jan 2007, 01:10

Erode-sir, thank you for your valuable comments.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 22 Jan 2007, 01:28

Erode14,
Welcome to our forum and may your tribe (of performing artists who are members of this forum) increase!

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 22 Jan 2007, 10:32

Erode Nagarajan Sir !! Heartiest welcome to this meaningful forum. Reading your post i want to add that the light music concerts are done by dedicated mike men who do rehearsals for nearly 10 to 15 days in the same place with mikes. These are called mike rehearsals. do we have anything like that in our carnatic system ? i doubt .. some of the artistes like Aruna Sairam, I heard, do have a mike test prior to the concert. It is a welcome trend. Another aspect could be money payments to these artisans. At this juncture i would like to recall an excellent experience here with the rasikas. When i went to Fukuoka, Japan to participate in the Asian Festival we were asked to come to their town 2 days prior to the event. It was a veena concert (Artiste Smt.Revathy Krishna) and we had a ghatam vidwan (late) Coimbatore Viswanathan. We were asked to sit on the stage with mikes for all of us .. they tested the mikes, balanced the systems and wrote down all the details about the levels, bass, treble etc. One more interesting thing happened. they had a spread for us and they noted down out seating positions thru indelible ink. everytime we came to the stage (the concerts were arranged for 45 minutes daily at the same venue for 12 days) the same spread with the spots will come on to the stage and the mikes will be set in just 2 minutes. That was the professionalism shown by them and on each and every day we had the same audio levels, same feedback and excellent playing comfort levels. all said and done we are living in India and that too chennai. we have to be contented with the system available here and make the best use of it. While it is excellent for UKS and Trichy Sankaran and the likes why it may not be good to us ? there might be some mistake with us too which we shall try to find out and enhance the quality of listening instead of voicing our grudge.
JB

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 22 Jan 2007, 10:53

Hi JB - I organise Carnatic concerts by Indian professional musicians in Australia and we always have mic tests. Our concerts start at 6.30pm and we have a thorough mic test from 5pm to 6pm, before the audience is allowed into the hall.

Most artistes never have an issue doing the mic test here, so I don't understand why you can't do them in Chennai as well. Of course, if concerts are back-to-back it is difficult to do the sound tests prior to the concert. Sabhas need to take the lead here and insist that artistes arrive early to ensure mic tests take place.

In the Sydney Opera House, musicians are given rehearsal time a couple of days before the actual concert. During this rehearsal the mics levels are set and the same levels used for the concert. (like your Japan example).

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 22 Jan 2007, 11:41

Even in Chennai, for the Bavarian Orchestra (Zubin Mehta), a dress rehearsal was done (to a full house!) at the Academy prior to the main concert.

Listening to carnatic music on Worldspace, for instance, sounds much better than concerts in 80% of Chennai venues - just goes to show what a little more proferssionalism could do to make concerts better.

Erode Nagaraj, sir, welcome to the forum - we would be grateful for your regular participation! This forum is getting better every day!

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 22 Jan 2007, 20:09

You are 100% right Jb.

Even the mike man who keeps audio for temple-light music programme, keeps the volume in a manner that every artiste is heard.

I also dont like raising the volume for thani. I been to one of your concert at valasaravakkam(u plyd fr neyveli).

The mike was so poor and that too for the right side only. But, you (as usual) managed and really did well with your own balance. While thani, when they increased the volume, which picked up the right alone, it resulted in fading the thoppi more.

I played in thiruvanmiyur and looked at the mike man for a little more volume. He went to the speaker and kept his left ear on the speaker itself, had a concentrated look in face and said "it is heard"!!!!

I didn't know what to say, whether to tell him that his action itself proves I am not heard properly or to pray for him to have knowledge atleast in the future!

Dear all, I am mentioning incedents like this,only to share the happenings. I am not finding fault with anybody. I hope the awareness will spread slowly and things will improve in a decede!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 25 Jan 2007, 10:47

Interesting point about the place marking!

Mic tests are common in London, and sometimes they happen so early that the performers can leave the stage and relax, returning just before the curtain rises.

Of course the positions are lost, and the testing is rendered a waste of time. How many performers realise that the signal from the mic halves as the double the distance. Yes: 4 inches away gives half the level of two inches away!

Also, mic tests are useless if all the performer does is a little relaxed humming. Then when [s]he comes to the stage and sings to the audience everything is overloaded. Either the artist has to realise this, or the sound person must realise that his job is not over after the mic test.

His job is not over anyway: the acoustics of a hall with audience are not the same as an empty hall, and subtle adjustments should be made.

So many concerts ruined by the sound man ---- but sometimes the artist contributes!

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 25 Jan 2007, 16:58

I found that CMC Melbourne is meticulous about the audio quality of their concerts. Half an hour before concert start time (and they are very prompt about start times, unlike most other venues) they would get all the artistes to perform a full song or two at regular volumes, while a music-knowledgeable volunteer from the CMC team would sit with the audio engineer and fine tune the controls. I have personally seen this happen, and felt so happy that at least someone was taking audio quality seriously.

I wish more sabhas take a similar approach. Rasikas like us can definitely contribute positively in this regard - especially as often I have found the audio 'technicians' have no clue about CM!

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 26 Jan 2007, 12:05

It is sad to see that TKM is not playing much these days. He is the last of the old guard of mridangists and a contemporary of the great PMI. My brother said that due to ripe old age (he's 82), occasionally "avar kai thoyyaradhu" (I can't find the english translation for this). He wanted to learn for a few months last year under him but it got sidelined. Also, because of ill health it seems, artistes are less willing to hire him for concerts (or at least that was what I heard, but please don't quote me on that).

I also noticed that there was no mention of Ramabhadran... which is odd because he was a steady accompanist for MMI and SSI all the way down to TMK today, and his accompaniment to krithis was top class. As far as thanis go, they were concise, and largely kanakku-free. True he had a very limited korvai repertoire, but a thani is more than just korvais, and his were always bright little affairs, and very pleasant to hear. But apparently even his hands are starting to weaken due to old age.

gundakriya · Post by **gundakriya** » 26 Jan 2007, 23:44

Mr. Balaji ('mridhangam' balaji, not the 747!)... I have been following your write-ups with interest. However, there is one particular concert that you performed, of which I was hoping you would provide some insight, but didn't. Am referring to a Sowmya concert at Asthika Samajam, Tiruvanmiyur in early jan. where a German gentleman (Herbert something, a student of Palghat Raghu sir acc to the organizer) was on the Kanjira. I am wondering what happened during that tani, that made you take over completely from that guy after the first avartanam and go on to complete the entire tani by yourself. If it's something you would rather avoid discussing, no probs... just give us your usual overall take on the concert!

To jog your memory a bit, the concert went something like this: (I'm pretty sure this was the sequence; it's been a few days now)

sowmya, ma krishnaswami, j balaji, herbert (?)
astika samajam, tiruvanmiyur, jan 2007
-------------------
sami daya jooda - kedaragaula
rama bhakti samrajya - shuddhabangala (s)
chelimini jalajakshi - yadukulakambhoji (r,n,s)
nannubrovu lalita - lalita
adamodi galade - charukesi (r,s)
eppadi manam - huseni
shri kantimatim - hemavati (r,n,s,t)
shodhanai - kapi
mandari tillana
mangalam