General questions on Nadaswaram

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 10 Apr 2008, 17:30

Few general questions...

1. Typically what is the pitch / sruti of the instrument?
2. Why there is no tanpura sruti accompliment with nadaswaram concert?
3. Usually tavil vidwan start playing even before song start!! So, there is a co-ordination between nadaswaram & tavil vidwan before the concert on what order the songs are performed?
4. Any particular reason why percussion is played before song commences?

-hari

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 10 Apr 2008, 20:43

I don't think the tanpura would have a chance of even being heard with such a loud instrument. With the sruti-peti (is that the right word?) I guess that that Nadaswara led the way, as it could perhaps be called a manual (rather than electronic) sruti box!

ajit · Post by **ajit** » 10 Apr 2008, 21:20

AFAIK - There are two types of Nadhaswaram - Timiri and Bari. Timiri is the higher pitched(4 kattai ) and Bari
is the lower pitched(2 or 2.5). Most Nadhaswaram schools today use the BAri and typically the sruthi
is 2.5. Some schools(for example, Sri Sheik Chinnamoulana) use 2 kattai. There was a nadhaswaram player employed by the KapAli temple in the early 90s who used to play the Timiri.
Reason for Tanpura could be
since Nadhaswaram was played in temples, the players had to move around quite a bit and so carrying
the Tanpura could have been difficult as compared to a sruthi petti.

ajit.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 10 Apr 2008, 21:56

I think even the use of the shruti box is a later development. I think the old nagasvaram sampradaya is the use of "otthu oodal" as the only shruti reference. "Otthu oodal" is the second nagasvaram player holding the "Sa" endlessly while the first plays the melody. I think the two players exchange roles too. You can see some otthu oodal in shehnai performances too.

ajit · Post by **ajit** » 10 Apr 2008, 23:14

I dont think the thavil player has to be informed of the order of the songs before the concert. He plays
in either ekam or may be Adi before the song starts and in between the alapanas.

ajit.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 10 Apr 2008, 23:18

Vedaranyam Vedamurthy used to play with Regular Thambura & Mridangam in addition to the Thavil. It requires BETTER control in various areas to be able to do that! vkv

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 10 Apr 2008, 23:27

Dear s_hari,
I will submit your very good questions to a leading Nadhaswara Vidwan I know & wriye you his answers. vkv

Ramnath Iyer · Post by **Ramnath Iyer** » 11 Apr 2008, 04:40

As Uday said the 'otthu' was used to provide the sruthi so that the volume matched the mian instrument. However in the recent concert I attended in Melbourne they used a radel tampura, with a microphone to amplify it as well. Of course this was a concert where the artists sat on the stage and performed. I have also seen a battery-powered sruti box hanging on the shoulder while the artist goes around the temple playing the nadaswaram. Economics dictate the luxury of a 'otthu' player these days probably.

Another unique aspect of a nadaswaram troupe is to have a person dedicated to keeping the talam using the 'jalrA'.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 11 Apr 2008, 06:41

Uday_Shankar wrote:I think the old nagasvaram sampradaya is the use of "otthu oodal" as the only shruti reference. "Otthu oodal" is the second nagasvaram player holding the "Sa" endlessly while the first plays the melody. I think the two players exchange roles too.

That is merely to save the cost of employing a separate player yo play "otthu".

In the old days, there was a person in the nagaswaram troupe whose job was to play the "otthu" instrument. Starting out in this job as a boy. many never graduated to becoming nagaswaram players and were content to play "otthu" all their lives.

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 11 Apr 2008, 10:34

Hai friends,
A typical Nadaswaram concert contains
1. Shruti Peti
2. Talam
3. Main Nadaswaram
4. Co Nadaswaram
5. Main Thavil
6. Co thavil

The reason for Starting the thavil even before the start of the kriti and/or Raga is to give a warm up start to a concert. Also during the breaks between raga alapanas, thavil artist rolls out some interesting/speedy Urutus to give a break to Nadaswaram artists. (You know the difficulty of playing this wind instrument). Many times after completing the raga's, Thavil artists gives a mohra/theermanas to end the raga session.
Also these thavil patterns are played only in Chaturashra Eka tala. (During any Raga sessions)

We can enjoy this only during nadaswaram concerts. I think this pattern is a class by itself. I enjoy this.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 11 Apr 2008, 10:46

Is the way talam maintained on 'jaldra' the same as the conventional way of keeping talams ?

kovilpallavi · Post by **kovilpallavi** » 11 Apr 2008, 11:16

hi frnds,,
as of to my knowledge in olden days many nadaswaram concerts r accompanied with a harmonium for sruti...
these days some r following the same but while some others r using electronic sruti box...
regards..
pallavi..

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 11 Apr 2008, 11:40

AFAIK thiruvengadu subramania pillai was the first vidwan to play with tampura sruthi and mrudangam.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Apr 2008, 11:54

rajumds wrote:Is the way talam maintained on 'jaldra' the same as the conventional way of keeping talams ?

As far as I have observed, they follow the claps (the 'beats', although I object to that terminology).

It may be the volume of the instrument that helps, but the tuned talam as put with Nadaswaram and thavil is never an irritation.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Apr 2008, 11:57

harimau wrote:... ... ...

In the old days, there was a person in the nagaswaram troupe whose job was to play the "otthu" instrument. Starting out in this job as a boy. many never graduated to becoming nagaswaram players and were content to play "otthu" all their lives.

Gosh.

Western popular music is full of what we call 'one-hit wonders' ---famous for one song but never heard of apart from that song--- but to play one note only the days of one's life!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Apr 2008, 12:12

nick H wrote:
rajumds wrote:Is the way talam maintained on 'jaldra' the same as the conventional way of keeping talams ?
As far as I have observed, they follow the claps (the 'beats', although I object to that terminology).

It may be the volume of the instrument that helps, but the tuned talam as put with Nadaswaram and thavil is never an irritation.

That is what it looks like in the two samples I just heard. For Adi, it is the start of the laghu and the start of the drutams, so you hear three jAlra sounds. For the second beat of the drutham, a muted sound of the jAlra is also heard.
For misra chapu - tha ki ta tha ka dhi mi, the jAlra sounds are heard for Tha, ki, tha and dhi. ( 1, 2, 4 and 6 )

It is quite nice to have the jAlra reference, so the rasikas can check their own thala keeping, especially when the laya of the music has off beat accents ( syncopation ).

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 11 Apr 2008, 12:27

Thanks VK & Nick

annapoorne · Post by **annapoorne** » 11 Apr 2008, 12:41

Tomorrow Apr 12th there is a concert of Enjikudi E M Subramaniam at Rajarajeswari Temple, Saligramam. with a violin-mridangam accompaniment.

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 11 Apr 2008, 14:32

annapoorne wrote:Tomorrow Apr 12th there is a concert of Enjikudi E M Subramaniam at Rajarajeswari Temple, Saligramam. with a violin-mridangam accompaniment.

Interesting combination!!

-hari

Ramnath Iyer · Post by **Ramnath Iyer** » 11 Apr 2008, 14:39

annapoorne,
good to hear about a nadaswaram concert....please do a review.

Ramnath

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 11 Apr 2008, 21:59

i m told, many mordern nagasvaram vidwans have taken to performing with fiddle mridangam accompaniment, with appropriate amplifications of coz...

annapoorne · Post by **annapoorne** » 12 Apr 2008, 08:52

I am sorry there was a confusion about the venue.

Sri Enjikudi Subramaniam's nagaswaram concert is at Sivavishnu Temple, Natesan Nagar, Virugambakkam at 6.30 p.m. to the accompaniment of Sri C A Rajasekar on the violin
and Sri A S Ranganathan on the mridangam.

It is a real treat to hear him play some pieces like the shehnai.

annapoorne · Post by **annapoorne** » 13 Apr 2008, 14:34

http://www.sendspace.com/file/yegm82

This is a link to a meera bhajan by Sri Subramaniam from my collection

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 13 Apr 2008, 22:12

Thanks Annapoorne.
This is great !! I enjoyed it for the past 30 min..
Indeed it sounds like shehnai...

Ahiri · Post by **Ahiri** » 26 May 2008, 19:34

i have uploaded Injikudi Sir's bhajan again:

http://www.mediafire.com/?y7gnltixtyx

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 18 Feb 2019, 18:07

I heard this much hyped cinema song " singaara velane deva". I was told that the play back singer was the choice to match the nadaswaram. But why cannot they have lowered the pitch a bit to 6.5 and Radha Jayalakshmi coudl have done wonders. Now as I am listening to the same as a connoisseur and not a lay audience ... it is shill and shrieking at many places. The song was a huge hit . But why should somone of Karaikudi arunachalam stature insist on a playback singer and not a carnatic musician. ?

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General questions on Nadaswaram

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