Word by word meaning for a Tamil song - Malai yellam tirumal

Nandy · Post by **Nandy** » 20 Dec 2006, 04:14

Hello everyone,

Could anyone help me with the meaning of the Tamil song :

Malai yellam trumalai polaaghumaa madhava unakkinai eedaghuma
(Malai)

Silai vadi vaahi ninrai sreenivaasa
Sridhara, damodara, shree venkatesa
(Malai)

Patrenru kaati nirkum valadu karam
Patrida aravanaikkum thaayin ullam
Mutruhai seida vinai muriyum talam
Muhil vannan arasaalum tiruvenkadam
(Malai)

Devadi devanin sannidhaanam
Deviyar koluvirukka tirukkalyaanam
Naavara puhazh paadum nal varam thaa
Naarayana, hari, govinda
(Malai)

Thank you.

Nandy.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 20 Dec 2006, 05:17

Nandy,
Here goes:

malai = mountains
yellAm = all
tirumalai = tirupati
pOlAgumA = (will it) ever be like
mAdhavA
unakkiNai = unakku + iNai = (for) you + equal
EdAgumA = (will) anything be

Not all mountains can be(come) tirupati. Oh mAdhavA, no one or nothing can equal you.
(Malai)

Silai vaDivAgi = assuming the form (vaDivam Agi) of a statue (Silai)
ninrai = (you) stood (there in tirupati)
sreenivaasa
Sridhara, damodara, shree venkatesa
(Malai)
Oh SrInivAsA, SrIdharA, damOdara, venkaTESA, assuming the form of a statue you stand atop tirupati

paTrenru = abhayam
kATi = showing/indicating
nirkum = exist
valadu = right
karam = hand
paTrida = holding
aravaNaikkum = (one that) embraces
thAyin = mother's
uLLam = heart
muTruhai = Not sure - previous 3 births???
seida = performed/accrued
vinai = bad deeds/sins
muriyum = destroy
talam = place (sthalam)
muhil = dark, rain laden clouds
vaNNan = one whose complexion is
arasALum = araSu + ALum = king + ruler of
tiruvenkadam = tirupati (lord of)
(Malai)

Oh dark complexioned king of kings, Lord venkaTESwarA! you stand with the abhaya mudra in your right hand, reassuring us, while your embrace is like that of a mother's. Even visiting your abode in tirupati is reputed to detroy sins accrued in many lives.

dEvAdi devanin sannidhAnam = the sanctum sanctorum of the god of gods
deviyar = his consorts, Lakshmi and alarmElmangai
koluvirukka = by his side
tirukkalyANam = the divine wedding
nAvAra = to my heart's content (nAvu is literally tongue)
puhazh = glories
pADum = (ability to) compose and sing
nal = good
varam = boon
thA = please give (me)
Naarayana, hari, govinda
(Malai)

Oh nArAyaNA, harI, gOvindA, god of all gods, please bless me with the boon that I will be able to compose and sing songs describing your glory and the glory of your divine weddings to your consorts to my heart's content in this sanctum sanctorum of yours.

Nandy · Post by **Nandy** » 22 Dec 2006, 23:00

Thanks rshankar, that was sgreat.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 22 Dec 2006, 23:15

You are welcome!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 25 Dec 2006, 11:30

>muTruhai = Not sure - previous 3 births???

It is siege. Just to be sure, I looked it up at http://ta.wiktionary.org/wiki/முற்றுகை

முற்றுகை

ஒரு ஊர், நகரம், அல்லது கோட்டையைக் கைப்பற்றும் முயற்சியில் எதிரி நாட்டவர் அதைச் சூழ்ந்து கொள்ளுதல்.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 25 Dec 2006, 11:59

patru+endru = saying 'hold it'; patrida - if held;

abhaya (right) hand that beckons me to hold;
heart of a mother that embraces, when I hold it (hand);
kShetra that rents asunder besieging (results of) past actions;

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Dec 2006, 19:10

Vk, great! So, you're into sAhityA too, are you?

muTRugai is seige. muTRUm=completely; so, a completely surrounded state.
silai is sculpture too but essentially stone (sanskrit: shilA), also, something wrought out of stone.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 27 Dec 2006, 19:23

arasi wrote:muTRugai is seige. muTRUm=completely; so, a completely surrounded state. .

Iam not sure this correct. The equivalent kannaDa word is muttige formed from the verb "muttu" meaning to surround/besiege. perhaps muRRum meaning completely is also formed from this verb, not the other way around.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 27 Dec 2006, 19:40

Though முற்றுகை is generally used to refer to siege (surrounding a fortress), the actual Tamil word for siege seems to be முத்திக்கை - அரண்வளைப்பு. The following additional meanings are found in the Tamil dictionary for முற்றுகை - குறைவு, நெருக்கம், முற்றுதல். Accordingly, முற்றும், முற்றுகை seem to be derived from முற்றுதல்

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 27 Dec 2006, 20:03

vgvindan wrote:Though முற்றுகை is generally used to refer to siege (surrounding a fortress), the actual Tamil word for siege seems to be முத்திக்கை - அரண்வளைப்பு.

Nope. muTRugai is formed from the verb "muTRu"dal, same as in kannaDa. muttikkai has no corresponding verb. Therefore it is either a borrowing from kannaDa or a corruption of muTRugai.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 27 Dec 2006, 20:23

muttikkai has no corresponding word. Therefore it is either a borrowing from kannaDa or a corruption of muTRugai

I reproduced what is given in the Tamil Dictionary. The word முத்திக்கை is new to me also who has always believed the word to be முற்றுகை. Whether the word was borrowed or not - I would not hazard any opinion. But it is surely not a corruption of முற்றுகை.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 27 Dec 2006, 20:27

vgvindan wrote:I reproduced what is given in the Tamil Dictionary. The word முத்திக்கை is new to me also who has always believed the word to be முற்றுகை.

Ops! Excuse my typo. I meant it had no corresponding verb

But it is surely not a corruption of முற்றுகை.

What exactly makes you so sure of that?

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 27 Dec 2006, 20:45

முற்றுகை, v. noun. [com. முற்றிக்கை.] Straitness, distress, want, [vul. முட்டு கை.] 2. [vul. முத்திக்கை.] Blockade, seige. சாப்பாட்டுக்கெனக்குமெத்தமுற்றிக்கையாயிருக்கி றது. I am in-great distress for want of food. பட்டணத்தைமுற்றிக்கைபோட்டார்கள். They beseiged the town.

Please refer to http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/romadi ... le=winslow
The Telugu word is muTTaDi.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 27 Dec 2006, 21:26

VGV
I saw the reference. That still does not prove to any degree that muttikkai is not a corruptoion of muTRikkai.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 27 Dec 2006, 21:56

I am not a qualiffied philologist. Yet, whatever little I know of Tamil, I would state that in Tamil ற்ற would become த்த in colloquial usage - but the other way round is not possible becuase ற்ற is more literary usage. For example ஒற்றன் முற்றம் would become ஒத்தன் முத்தம் and not vice versa. Therefore, முற்றிக்கை cannot be corruption of முத்திக்கை.
BTW - even dictionary spells it as 'seige'. Isn't the correct spelling 'siege'?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 27 Dec 2006, 22:16

vgvindan wrote:I am not a qualiffied philologist. Yet, whatever little I know of Tamil, I would state that in Tamil ற்ற would become த்த in colloquial usage - but the other way round is not possible becuase ற்ற is more literary usage. For example ஒற்றன் முற்றம் would become ஒத்தன் முத்தம் and not vice versa. Therefore, முற்றிக்கை cannot be corruption of முத்திக்கை.

Yes I agree. And I have not said anyting to the contrary either.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 27 Dec 2006, 22:19

vgvindan wrote:BTW - even dictionary spells it as 'seige'. Isn't the correct spelling 'siege'?

Yah "Siege" it is.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/siege

Which dictionary did you refer?

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 27 Dec 2006, 22:56

I was referring to the Tamil Dictionary

gnanasunyam · Post by **gnanasunyam** » 29 Dec 2006, 08:59

The word has to be MuRthagai which means previous birth. All sins of the previous birth is what is being referred to. It definitely does not have any reference to MutRugai which is Siege.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 29 Dec 2006, 11:04

That sounds more like it, and by sheer dumb luck (as professor McGonagall would say), I assumed it to be previous 3 births!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Dec 2006, 13:54

Both seem appropriate to me and we do not have a clue about the mental imagery of the composer when the song was born.

gnanasunyam · Post by **gnanasunyam** » 29 Dec 2006, 22:31

Unfortunately, I still cannot make out how the concept of sige fits in with the context. Previous birth makes good sense. In general, when referring to multiple births, poets use seven births (Ezhu Piravi) and not 3 births. It is also 7 seas, 2x7 Ulagams (worlds) and so on.

If member Nandy has the audio and can check the word once again and write back, it will give us a good idea.

While Munn+ Thagai becomes MuRThagai, the sound can be easily mistaken for MuTRugai, esp. if one is not familiar with the language.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 29 Dec 2006, 23:00

gnanasunyam wrote:Unfortunately, I still cannot make out how the concept of sige fits in with the context.

muTRugai seida vinai muRiyum talam makes good sense with muTRugai meaning siege.

ennai muTRugai seiduLLa (ennai muTRiya) vinai ellAvaTRaiyum muRiyaDikkum padattalam koNDa SrInivAsA!

Nandy · Post by **Nandy** » 03 Jan 2007, 00:46

Gnanasunyam,

As far as I know, the word is MuTRugai as being sung. I sang this song with a Tamizh group in India. I'll try to find out more from the group.

Nandy · Post by **Nandy** » 23 Jan 2007, 10:51

Hi everyone,

I heard Mutrughai (seige) is wrong in this context.

Murpirapu - previous births will be more appropriate probably.

Thanks.

Nandy.

Nandy · Post by **Nandy** » 27 Jan 2007, 08:58

Hi everyone,

So sorry for such a late reply. I just got the reply today from the group. This is what they have to say.

"Mutrugai" literally means invasion. In this context, the phrase- "Mutrugai seida vinai muriyum talam" can be explained as follows:- Tirupati is the sacred place-'talam' -where the 'karma' ('vinai') that has been invading--hounding- us (mutrugai seida) gets dissolved ie, 'murindu pohiradu' or 'muriyum'.

Nandy.

Nandy · Post by **Nandy** » 27 Jan 2007, 09:02

Deleted duplicate post.