keyboard and prodigies!

MANNARGUDIYAAN · Post by **MANNARGUDIYAAN** » 06 Feb 2007, 12:13

Dear all,

I see lot of keyborad players giving concerts and getting praised and encouraged now a days.

Keyborad is not like voice, violin,flute like instruments. You touch the key and get the sound!

Lot of players perform the keybord like jalatharangam only. They seldom use the pith bender.

I have heard Palladam Venkatramana rao and Palghat Shriram playing it with right rendering of gamakas and variying way of reaching certain swaras like ma, dha and ni... which gives you proper feel of the raga....

If not they aim at gayaki style, they should atleast strive to learn from one who can really make them play well.

I request the parents of such artistes to take necessary steps to improve their gjnana first regarding this and avoid increasing the population of such average performers.

They easily gain a fame and name just by playing popular numbers. Who is responsible for this?

Parents,Gurus,Rasikas....?

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 06 Feb 2007, 15:52

I am sure Mohan would have some observations on this...and our former forum member (unless reincarnated), Harimau!

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 06 Feb 2007, 16:20

There were some discussions about Carnatic music on the keyboard before at http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=111

Mannargudiyan I haven't heard too many of these keyboard players. Keyboard Sathya and Amrithavarshini Muralikrishna are quite good. Some synthesizers are equipped with a portamento facility that allows notes to glide from one to another reducing the need to use the pitch bender.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 06 Feb 2007, 21:45

vijay wrote:I am sure Mohan would have some observations on this...and our former forum member (unless reincarnated), Harimau!

Reports of myd reincarnation are a gross exaggeration! There can be only one Harimau.

I am very much touched that someone remembers me! In fact, I was inspired to register as a member!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 06 Feb 2007, 22:27

Oh yes harimau! You are remembered for your attic wit and comments!
Nice to see you here finally. Welcome and Do Enjoy!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 07 Feb 2007, 04:10

Vijay,
I hope you 'inspire' many more to register!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 07 Feb 2007, 11:18

Good to have you back Harimau - hard to forget your biting humour! Do keep them coming in...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 Feb 2007, 03:05

Oh No

:lol:
as long as it is not directed at our membership

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 09 Feb 2007, 22:06

My posting on keyboards and Satya got me tossed out of another group! heh, apparently, calling an artiste mediocre or average is a cardinal sin to some people. Anyway...

I don't quite like keyboards in CM. Some people say oh, it's innovation. I am personally not a big fan of innovation for the sake of it but I will reserve my comments for the day when some doofus starts to play CM on the Bagpipe or didgeridoo!

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 10 Feb 2007, 06:38

bala747 wrote:...... I will reserve my comments for the day when some doofus starts to play CM on the Bagpipe or didgeridoo!

And you forgot the kazoo! How could you?!

sunayanaa · Post by **sunayanaa** » 12 Feb 2007, 09:00

bala747 wrote:I don't quite like keyboards in CM. Some people say oh, it's innovation. I am personally not a big fan of innovation for the sake of it but I will reserve my comments for the day when some doofus starts to play CM on the Bagpipe or didgeridoo!

True, keyboard is not suitable for Indian music which is gamaka intense. And the gamaka that we hear in Keyboard is an approximation to what we can hear from instruments. In spite of these limitations, Sathya is doing a good job.

But we have to keep an open mind to new instruments. Similar views against new instruments would have been passed in the past against violin, clarinet, saxaphone, mandolin and guitar and the rest is history.

Wind instruments and string instruments have a good chance to reproduce CM.

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 12 Feb 2007, 09:48

I am still against saxophones and mandolins and guitars in CM, although I'll give the violin a pass because it filled a very necessary void at that time, and still continues to do so. The clarinet I would also view with some suspicion, and only AKC could pull it off with some degree of credibility, although the nagaswaram is a far superior instrument in terms of scope and tonal quality.

Innovation to fill a need is fine, but playing CM on the keyboard (or mandolin, or kazoo) is simply a way to compensate for possessing mediocre amounts of talent and lots of money to get themselves over with minimal competition.
But very often Satya or Srinivas get praises for their playing as if they are the greatest things to happen to CM. Praising them such is like praising a one year old kid for reciting the alphabet very clearly and then going on to confer on him a PhD for his recital.

And why the hell does a violin accompany these monstrosities I fail to understand, when it is a far superior instrument to the mandolin or the keyboard and has even been with us longer.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 12 Feb 2007, 10:04

bala747 wrote:Innovation to fill a need is fine, but playing CM on the keyboard (or mandolin, or kazoo) is simply a way to compensate for possessing mediocre amounts of talent and lots of money to get themselves over with minimal competition.

To the contrary, due to the limitations of these instrument, playing CM on the keyboard (and other Western instruments) is often harder than on other instruments. Also, there is little precedent to follow hence the artistes need to develop their own techniques.

And, what has the money to do with it in this instance? Money can help influence the promotion of any artiste.

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 12 Feb 2007, 10:28

>>To the contrary, due to the limitations of these instrument, playing CM on the keyboard (and other Western instruments) is often harder than on other instruments.

So is driving a car with your feet. That does not mean that we award the F1 championship to someone who decides to do that.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 12 Feb 2007, 10:38

bala747 - my comments we directed at your comment that playing the keyboard is linked with mediocre talent.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 12 Feb 2007, 11:44

My two cents
A poorly played Keyboard is more easy on the ears than a poorly played violin.

On a serious note , I have always wondered why I have preferred a Harmonium accompaniment to say a Violin accompaniment in the HM Context.

Parveen-Maru Behag
http://www.badongo.com/file/2218747

And over the years I have got around to the belief that it can accompany without being obtrusive.For most of the time it behaves like an extended drone , with few flashes of individuality permitted by the main artist - but absolutely within limits.
Appreciating Keyboard music can be treated as a Juvenile element in the understanding of a music by the purists, but in an age where one sees a dilution of so many long held beliefs , I see no wrong if some segments of enthusiasts like it one way or the other.

Ghulam Ali
http://www.badongo.com/file/2218687

I myself started by falling in Love with Chittibabu in my younger days , but later found that the main thrust of his music was being submerged in so many sounds.

Today I love balchanders Veena in my own way , but have to admit that it is very very mentally Taxing.If I listen to him ,three hours non stop, Chances are i will develop a fever.

Certainly this is a Purist vs Non Purist issue.
As far as U Srinivas is concerned , I think at the end of the day we ultimately fall in love with a peep into the mental process of an artist.

Track 2
http://www.badongo.com/file/2218662

And here I must admit that If Ravikirans Music signfies moments , like the ones shown in historical movies- the serene cloud filled steps leading upto the gates of heaven-
I must also admit that I experience the flash of light that comes from the other side of the opened pearly gates, in U Srinivas's playing.There are certain thoughts and passages , in his renderings,beyond the reach of the most gifted of
purists.
maybe like Driving a car with one hand , the other free to wave a bunch of brightly colored balloons .
But certainly not like driving a car with feet.

U Srinivas
http://www.badongo.com/file/2218110

Admin.
I have used only sample clippings from U Srinivas Concerts.these were gifts to me from a person very close to U Srinivas- Late Prof Ranganathan of Matscience institute.
Hope they do not violate any rule here.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 12 Feb 2007, 12:00

And another point.
Even in Hollywood , Films tended to be very serious during the years of depression - a sign of those times.
Then Rapidly moving on to exhilarating Musicals with a sense of gay abandon , in more joyous years.
and again and again , finding newer inspirations.

Maybe Instruments like the Mandolin and artists like U Srinivas
represent the moment for us.After all the basic thrust of most of CM is quite morose and convergent (to a point of Submission to God) and needs a bit of exhilaratation to achieve the right balance.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 12 Feb 2007, 12:27

Hi all,

My two cents.

If we can eventually get one U srinivas in keyboard (or for that matter any instrument) , it is worth going through all these experiments.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 12 Feb 2007, 12:32

Oh yes, the poorly played violin!

Last week, I picked up a violin from Sapthaswara in a moment of rash self-confidence...it took half an hour of furious but fruitless bowing to figure out that the paper-weight that came along with the violin-set was meant for application on the strings! The violin finally obliged with a reluctant squeal but the mystery of of the silent strings was, perhaps, better left unresolved - for my landlord, not normally a creature of the night or a person given to strong emotions, raced up to my house with dire warnings of a vacation notice unless my nocturnal symphonies were immediately terminated....

Net, net - my fiddle is on the block (apologies for besmirching the site with an advertisement!). The price has been worked out as under:

Purchase Price - Rs. 2000
Less - Discount for asattu dhairyam - Rs. 500.
Final Price - Rs. 1500

Note - the seller does NOT undertake to provide indemnity against any collateral damage that may occur as a result of purchasing the instrument including, without limitation, divorce, eviction and exile/deportation

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 12 Feb 2007, 12:43

vijay
some other possible Third party liabilities

Neighbours meek dog running away from your flat or the (Bully across the road towards your flat) , darting across the road . The speeding car trying to avoid the dog and....

Neighbours daughter falling in love with this level of accomplishment and demanding to hear it again and again...

cable operator demanding that he be paid a years advance, that too in his office , since no sensible collection agent would dare to ring your bell.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 12 Feb 2007, 15:30

Re. pt. 1 above, the dogs in our street had already disappeared thanks to the establishment of a Korean restaurant in the vicinity! Now that the restaurant has closed down (for understandable reasons, given the average Chennai-ite's limited appetite for culinary adventurism) and the dogs given a new lease of life, perhaps my violin can be deployed for the Chennai Corporation's benefit.

Re. pt. 2, an asssortment of instruments of diverse shapes and tones have been blown, plucked and and bowed, but have so far fallen on (tone) deaf ears!

Re. pt. 3, with the World cup approaching and an investment in a set-top box looking increasingly inevitable, any further demands of a capital nature from my cable operator is likely to result in in my fiddle pressed into the somewhat disharmonious service of hollowing out his scheming head...

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 12 Feb 2007, 16:21

Vijay
I have updated my post # 16 above with a few sample clips.

Track 2 has a special significance too.In over 25 yaers of listening , I have rarely come across the ragas -featured here-in live performances or AIR.
Durga by Adna Sami on Piano with zakir
and
Vasanth Kanakapur playing Gorkah kalyan on the harmonium.

Without the help of these (im)purists , my understanding of these two ragas would have been poorer.

shanks · Post by **shanks** » 12 Feb 2007, 19:06

Talking about harmonium players,

Listening to Appa Jalgaonkar accompany Jasraj and Bhimsen Joshi, is an eye-opener on what one can do on the harmonium. The single word to describe his playing is 'amazing'.

Coolkarni - if you have any recording of him, i request you to post it.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 12 Feb 2007, 19:17

bala747,
what were your postings about key boards in the other group which threw you for a toss? i'm very curious to know.........

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Feb 2007, 19:26

vijay wrote:Oh yes, the poorly played violin!

Last week, I picked up a violin from Sapthaswara in a moment of rash self-confidence...it took half an hour of furious but fruitless bowing to figure out that the paper-weight that came along with the violin-set was meant for application on the strings! The violin finally obliged with a reluctant squeal but the mystery of of the silent strings was, perhaps, better left unresolved - for my landlord, not normally a creature of the night or a person given to strong emotions, raced up to my house with dire warnings of a vacation notice unless my nocturnal symphonies were immediately terminated....

Net, net - my fiddle is on the block (apologies for besmirching the site with an advertisement!). The price has been worked out as under:

Purchase Price - Rs. 2000
Less - Discount for asattu dhairyam - Rs. 500.
Final Price - Rs. 1500

Note - the seller does NOT undertake to provide indemnity against any collateral damage that may occur as a result of purchasing the instrument including, without limitation, divorce, eviction and exile/deportation

Vijay:
As I was reading the post, I was waiting for the 'priceless' punchline ( a la ) the now famous mastercard ad.

So, if I were to modify your flow, this is one way it could read:

Purchase Price: 2000
Seller's discount: 500
Final Price: 1500

Sounds of Silence from Vijay's violin: Priceless

For everything else there is Mastercard!!!!:P:P:P

Ravi

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Feb 2007, 19:28

chalanata wrote:bala747,
what were your postings about key boards in the other group which threw you for a toss? i'm very curious to know.........

If I were Johnny Mac, I'd be yelling: 'you can't be serious'!

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 12 Feb 2007, 19:39

i'm dead serious!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Feb 2007, 19:42

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 12 Feb 2007, 22:25

http://www.badongo.com/vid/292642

while i may take some time to locate jalgaonkars recitals,
here is a fine video of govindrao patwardhan...

MANNARGUDIYAAN · Post by **MANNARGUDIYAAN** » 12 Feb 2007, 22:52

bala747 wrote :But very often Satya or Srinivas get praises for their playing as if they are the greatest things to happen to CM. Praising them such is like praising a one year old kid for reciting the alphabet very clearly and then going on to confer on him a PhD for his recital.

You are right bala747.... the ability to handle an instrument should not be the only yardstick to ascertain musical values. It is the kalpana,manObhAvam, aesthetic sense and the way of rendition, the aural effect of a performance and things like that, which counts.

sunayanaa · Post by **sunayanaa** » 16 Feb 2007, 06:28

chalanata wrote:bala747,
what were your postings about key boards in the other group which threw you for a toss? i'm very curious to know.........

bala747's postings in the other group (Rasikapriya) were rabid attack with usage of strong words on a number of artists - Keyboard Sathya, Sudha Raghunathan, Kunnakudi and he had ridiculed the other members when they objected. The attack on Sudha was personal in nature.

He had not spared TN's former CM in the personal attacks

In spite of moderator's warnings , the attacks and justifications for those postings continued and the rest was history.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 16 Feb 2007, 07:42

thanks sunayanaa,
i was only curious about the key board boy. in chennai every where i found posters about him. i was wondering whether it was hype or real. i also have my reservations about keyboards in CM where the gamakas are not natural. i happen to listen to some of his casettes and he plays ok. probably he is wasting his time in a wrong instrument.

sunayanaa · Post by **sunayanaa** » 16 Feb 2007, 08:53

Sathya plays well. I had no great opinion about keyboard for CM till I listened to him.

I heard some of his audio clips with violin accompaniment and I wanted to hear him without violin to know how his gamakas were .

I asked for Anandabhairavi and his father sent a home recording of alapana without violin. And it was very good. The gamakas sounded natural.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 16 Feb 2007, 09:01

By effectively using portamento control and the pitch bender, there is no reason why gamakam can't be played on a keyboard. I once played the synthesizer for a dance program using a flute tone and later a newspaper review was published praising the flute player! lol

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 17 Feb 2007, 01:05

you can watch keyboard sathya on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... rch=Search

I am impressed. But from what I could tell, he is able to do the gamakas quite efffectively given our/my expectations about keyboard.

Although there are places where the keyboard's synthetic touch comes off a bit strong for me. I wish the timbre he picked is stronger or stands out more melodically.

Also the equi-tempered tuning of keyboard does show up - i was atleast able to discern it during the swara passages of marivere-gati particularly the phrase around the antara gandara, which sounded "different". That gandara has to held flat and the standard keyboard key would be "most off" from the natural tuning position G3 deviates most from its natural tuning counterpart (sa*5/4 Hz), compared to all the major sthanas. If i remember 17 cents or so - compared to only 9 for m1 and only 2 for pa.

But I am not sure if this is the reason - it could be just my own error. Listening to say Sankarabharanam would be more telling.

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 17 Feb 2007, 01:24

just wanted to add whatever "blemishes" I saw i think are more to do with keyboard itself rather than the youngster whom I think is doing an excellent job. I wish him all the best!

Arun

malini iyengar · Post by **malini iyengar** » 01 Mar 2009, 02:14

Kudos to MANNARGUDIYAAN , bala747 !! for being frank with their genuine opinions.

Infact I registered in this great site to discuss exactly abt Keyboard..

I share some of my views as a music lover for past 40 yrs in Madras and as a parent ..

1:Personally I have listened many concerts of Keyboard Sathya which was not at all music to my ears !
[no harm by purpose but the truth is the instrument is rather poor to express our vintage carnatic music..rather than an innovation its giving an easy escape from hardwork for youngsters..]

2:Like some above , I do strongly feel innovations are essential in any tradtion,still in the case of 'Keyboard in Carnatic scenario " it is like fixing a square peg in a round hole !!!It never tally nor synchronise..

3:Why is Violin underrated again and again by putting it as an accompaniment to such an instrument like Keyboard??
I feel ,its time this mistake is rectified and for the sake of better grooming, these so called prodigies on keyboard are put to accompanying a violinist of reasonable standard..so that they get to know the finer grace notes ,gamakas and intricate nuances of our great tradition based heavily on vocal music.

4:Even with the help of pitch benders ..keyboard can never come anywhere between the range and tonal grace and versatility of instruments like veena , violin , flute , nadaswaram ,and even mandolin..

5:If the argument is that even mandolin faced the same opposition in its entry to CM , still it is to be accepted that the mandolin is also an instrument with a good range and the sympathetic string giving brilliant gues necessary for carnatic gamakas..

Brinng Keyboard Satya in comparison with Mandolin Srinivas is for me and many among us the music lovers ,,the worst committed mistake..

6:If Keyboard can be so brilliantly supported then why not instruments like Violin, Veena , Flute , Nadaswaram given the due respect they richly deserve as Solo Instruments ?
Nowadays in Dec Season to listen to instrumental concerts are like a rarity ..but keyboard concerts are comparitively plenty...

7:Instead of Keyboard , why cant the organisers put up good Veena /Nadaswaram/violin/flute concerts??

8:As a parent , my son started learning Violin and I myself saw the difficulty and amount of hardwork needed to master a few geethams in this king of instruments..[took weeks ..!!]on the contrary in 5 days he was ready with 2 basic geethams on his small keyboard ..!!!

9:Musically , what about the brilliance and range of the instrument when compared to veena , flute or violin or nadaswaram...

Its time our great carnatic audience realise good music and good innovations from fake ones and fake prodigies..!!!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2009, 02:45

malini iyengar wrote: Its time our great carnatic audience realise good music and good innovations from fake ones and fake prodigies..!!!

I think WE DO REALIZE good music where-ever, and when-ever we listen to it, despite the concerns of some!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Mar 2009, 06:15

Malini: You seem to be on a mission

Musical vidwat and gynanam can be brought out using many different means. The instrument alone, whatever one thinks of its advantages and limitations, does not necessarily define the artist.

Read this link: http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/fr/2003/0 ... 090400.htm which I had quoted in another thread where you had posted as well. ( No implication of equating artists who play the keyboard intended )

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Mar 2009, 08:21

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 01 Mar 2009, 09:09

ADAADAA! WHAT A REVERBERATING NALINAKANTHI!

Kulkarni! thanks for the upload.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 01 Mar 2009, 10:00

Koolji,

I completely forgot. your birthday should be round the corner if I remember correct. Wish you many more happy returns of the day!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 01 Mar 2009, 10:09

Oh many happy returns of the day, Coolji!

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 01 Mar 2009, 10:28

i was browsing through the old posts to ascertain the exact date. it is 10th march.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Mar 2009, 13:51

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 01 Mar 2009, 14:08

Coolji, best wishes in advance for your 31st birthday! (Your esnips profile claims you're 30

)

tkb · Post by **tkb** » 01 Mar 2009, 14:40

Coolji,

Our advance birthday greetings.

Dear coolji,

Marvelous links and we really enjoyed the great music out from a Harmonium and Sri Palladam is a great exponent on keyboard also.

I would like to give two of Sathya's Nalinakanthi attempts A) performed on the 9th Jul'06 with stuthi 1 and B) performed on the 1st Jan'09 with srthui 1 and half.

It is nor for any comparisions but just fyi on his attempts.

Links deleted

tkb · Post by **tkb** » 01 Mar 2009, 15:41

malini iyengar

Happy to know that you have registered in this forum only to discuss on keyboard.

I sincerely appreciate your opinion / views on Sathya's music not being pleasing to your ears. It is now left to Sathya in particular, and all the keyboard artists to make people like you to listen. However it is possible only if people have the willingness to listen to them with no biased opinion. If you have one then even if Goddess Saraswathi comes down and play on Keyboard, may be you will not like it. While i appreciate your views, i will welcome more of your opinion / comments directed to specific of any raga and its nature on keyboard which will help people attempting carnatic on keyboard a great deal.

It is a general feeling that Keyboard is an easy instrument to learn. However in my experience it is one of the difficult instrument to perform as you still need all the qualities of any other instrumentalist or vocal artist with regard to the manodharma on kalpana swarams and raga aalapana to perform. It is also a fact that number of young children taking up keyboard is at the highest percentage presently compared to probably any other form of learning music but you are unable to get the right percentage of people on the performance stage. It is mainly due to the fact that there are not many experts to teach this art in the best way. I think this needs a sincere thought and discussion.

Human mentality is to compare which is indeed a mistake and it is not wise to compare any musician with the other, particularly carnatic musician as it is to do with individual manodharma. Your statement of Keyboard given a brilliant support against other instruments is indeed a news to me & may be to all the other keyboard artists as we sincerely know how difficult it is for us to get an oppurtunity to perform!

Every instrument has its own positives and restriction and keyboard is no exemption to it. This holds good for even vocalists based on their vocal chords. However i am sure all the keyboard artists are trying their best to bring the nuances of Carnatic music and lets see how far it goes. If it has taken X years for instruments like Violin, Mandolin, Saxophone etc to get recognised by the music community, keyboard also will go thru' the same and one day i am sure it will be at par with these instruments, provided the youngsters of today persist in exploring the nuances.

Fact remains that just by hype and promotion one can not get thru' the minds of people, be it Sathya or any other person. I have said this any number of time in variuous threads. Also it is not just the technique of handling which should be appreciated but also the vidwat seen in the person before doing so. At the end of it all, good music for one need not be the same for the other. It is all in individual's mind and i leave it for the time to take a call on keyboard and carnatic music.

chalanata wrote:thanks sunayanaa,
i was only curious about the key board boy. in chennai every where i found posters about him. i was wondering whether it was hype or real. i also have my reservations about keyboards in CM where the gamakas are not natural. i happen to listen to some of his casettes and he plays ok. probably he is wasting his time in a wrong instrument.

Please note the hoarding you had seen probably during Oct - Dec'06 were promotions for POGO channel for its awards and nothing to do with personal promotions. I also request you to kindly listen to Sathya's recent tracks and give your specific opinion / comments which will help him imporrve upon.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 01 Mar 2009, 16:34

tkb,

thanks for this belated rejoinder for my old post. i have been listening to satya from time to time and i find that he has not done anything so far to comment about his music adversely. keyboard gamakas are synthetic but then again as pointed out by mohan it may be a mind set. if harmonium is acceptable in cm why not key board with more features and possibilities?
regarding the definition of prodigies i doubt whether any statistical data is available for the same. you do not have to, in my opinion, keep on reacting to people's opinion about this. instead please have faith in your son. he will make you proud.
i have one reservation however. i find him playing the cine numbers and in house concerts too. this may bring him popularity but may ruin his music career in the long run. i have found that that the mixed bag is not taken too kindly by the elite cm crowd. you may have your compulsions. but please ensure that a musician's mind requires more than any thing else a clear focus of target audience. jack of all trades is not possible here since it is a journey as far as the musician's mind is concerned. unwinding every time for a different target group will only result in mediocrity in all areas.
i admire your aggressiveness in bringing up your son and you are a role model for parents with children of such unique talent.
good wishes to you and to your son.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Mar 2009, 19:13