sangitha kalanidhi 2024

[sam]

UP,BIHAR,BENGAL..the gangetic plain has been under muslim rule from 1300 to 1800.....500 years. It is not just the percentage but actual numbers. Mind bogging. When the depressed classes join hands with them, ewe can just forget India. It may be good if they choose church over masjith.

[Pratyaksham Bala]

... ... It may be good if they choose church over masjith.

Aha! The cat is out of the bag !

[sam]

Maadhwa sampadaya has a lot of similarity with syrian catholic system.
Kerala's syrian catholic church is more ancient than roman catholic church.
So, it can claim to be native to our soil.
From 600 BC to 1300 AD, the gangetic plain was hindu.
2000 years.
Afterall, they are racially ours.
So, it is possible to bring them back into hindu fold through joint hindu- christian effort. That is the call of ghar vaapss movement.

[vgovindan]

My God!
Now I understand what 'inculturation' means.
Thanks for the clarification.

[sam]

How did vedic brahmins -fire worshioers-adopt and capture non vedic popular gods?

[Pratyaksham Bala]

This is part of the oft-witnessed praise and belittle game.
Better to ignore.

[sam]

Delhi, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, West Bengal...the sacred Gangetic plain, has a huge population of muslim population. Add to that the huge population of Bangladesh,..it is a grave situation. Nearly 40 crores --cannot be extradited.The only way is to convert them to Hindu fold. This is not a spiritual problem but a political problem , almost existential problem for the Indian nation and its intellectual, cultural and historical existence.
Things like uniform civil code, expropriation of wakf properties, and global survelience are essential.
Christian population in Gangetic plain is next toi zero.
Fortunately, there has been a sea-change since november last in internatiional scene. The Globalist partners of jihadism are losing out.
India is now having outspoken two super powers on its side.
We should urgently, arrive at peaceful programs to win over the muslims back into Hindu mainstream. i

[Pratyaksham Bala]

... ... It may be good if they choose church over masjith.

Aha! The cat is out of the bag !

POPE JOHN PAUL II STRESSED CONVERSIONS
DURING HIS VISIT TO INDIA.

“The Pope travelled to India to conclude an Asian synod of bishops which began in Rome in 1998 and to present a key document, Ecclesia in Asia,which maps out the church's strategy in Asia for the new millennium. He arrived in New Delhi in Nov 1999.

“In his homily, the Pope quoted the synod document, saying the Catholic Church took root in Europe in the first millennium, in Africa and in the Americas in the second. "May the third Christian millennium witness a great harvest of faith on this vast and vital continent", he added.

“In prayers to the Virgin Mary, the Pope said: "To you . . . we entrust the clergy . . . and the laity of the church in Asia; renew and sustain them in a spirit of zeal and in their commitment to the great task of evangelisation and service."

“Ecclesia in Asia made it clear that the church aims to press ahead with its evangelisation programme and to spread the Gospel across Asia... The Pope told 200 Asian bishops that the church should continue vigorously to seek to convert the peoples of Asia. ..."

[sam]

The Pope told 200 Asian bishops that the church should continue vigorously to seek to convert the peoples of Asia

.
Asia refers to west asia, south asia, east asia.,central asia
West Asia is arabia, gulf,iran, iraq, syria.....mostly jihadists.
Central Asian countries like kazakstan and four more are islamic but not jihadists.
South Asia except the far south is almost islamic and jehadist.
Then comes Indonesia and Malaya.
-
Virgin Mary is like mother goddess.
The Gospel teaches the path of nonviolence, right conduct and service to humanity.. Gandhiji and CFAndrews were nurtured by Tolstoyan Christianity.
Even the US had Emerson, Thoroe, Walt Whitman
What is there to object?
EastAsia is..Buddist and their holy land is Bodh Gaya.
To the East Asia, India, especially, Gangetic plain, is the holy land.
(burma, ceylon, indo china, japan and china).

We should introspect why we are unable to bring the Islamists of Gangetic plain back into Hinduthva. Arya samaj made a good attempt.
.
Chitanya mahaprabhu was a follower of Dwaita. Almost all the bhakthi saints and poets of 1300 to 1800 were of the same ideology.
congregation, group singing of God's Glory, anti-casteism, service...
Ramakrishna mission is doing that work.
ALL this is relevant to this thread. Still, let us stop here and continue in the lounge.
Let us read Thyagaraja kruthis and absorb his message
Thank you.
-

[Pratyaksham Bala]

It is nice that the evangelical work is coming to an end here.

[shankarank]

Very nice Sir. A pictograph of population of Delhi, UP,BIHAR,ASSAM,Bombay, and percentage of minorities in each region also helps.

Sam, we know the human condition and we all should empathize. But we should separate humans and debate the ideas. In religious terms , people are not the same in lots of things. In the Christian world, people never worked Sunday - even house hold work , but that is not the case now.

Also your emphasis on music as "Brand Bhakti " , you want to merge religious devotions in all other streams into the streams in India. I am not speaking against any community adopting any culture. But it should be done in a way that is autonomous, community driven, bereft of any larger agenda, without any religious institutional force behind it.

Even in traditional Indian forms , each prefer their own. Hindustani, Abhang music, Bhajan. You want me to listen to a concert full of songs of Pitamaha of Karnatak music , Sri Purandaradaasa, I cannot do it. I need the beat and gait of Thyagaraja. However if Sri Purandaradaasa were to be rendered by their native followers in evocative tone , lighter cross-breed ragas of Karnatak-Hindustani and softened beat structure, I will listen to it. I say, don't try to force fit it into Carnatic music performance. It does not work. It is an injustice to the composer themselves, to try and do neraval and svaram in these!

V. Sriram had a long talk on Sri Puradaradaasa ( availabe in youtube!) made as part of Chicago Thyagaraja Utsavam. He says Carnatic music listeners did not understand Kannada. And hence, Purandara did not get traction on concert stage. Will these guys ever get it? I don't understand Telugu , nor do I worry about what the songs mean. I don't understand the literary tamizh also. Who will understand what kOtISvara Iyer says? Also musicians are supposed to sing with a drawl , not clear pronunciation, if you think language communicates across in this context.

Purandara cannot ascend concert stage, because his songs do not conform to the yati viSrama principle adopted by Sri tyAgarAja. Tamizh moovar ( the trio of tamizh composers) can! Arunagiri can! Subrahmaya Bharati cannot ( a few songs have been taken but they are also in Samskrit, like BhUloka kumari)!

This concert platform is a continuation of the Pallavi tradition of the courts of Tanjore, Mysore, Sethupati etc. - even if no Pallavi is sung!

Southern music is Rhythm centric and Rhythym based!

It is as simple as that!

[sam]

shankaranksir,
Before Thyagaraja, carnatic music was taken to common people, including the brahmins, through musical plays. Possibly through free temple concerts as well, .We have such concerts by MaNi Iyer in kapaali temple and Parthasarathy temple.
I am entirely with you regarding the language and theme related to classical music
Absolutely..
Bhimsen Joshi has sung a few popular keertans of Purandaradasa in HM style. Hubli-Darwar school.
I do not think, all the Purandaradasa keerthanams are retuned versioins.
No.
Quite a few must have been in karnataka households and devotional culture. We understand that it was a daasar spiritual renunciate who taught the songs and tunes to MLV''s mother Latangi.
Carnatic music did not begin with VyaasaRaaya. 1500. It began 200 years earlier, with Dwaitham of Maadwacharya.
Saahithyam of devotional theme presented as music , more specifically, as group singing, was the path to spiritual bliss.
It has a place for mrudangam also.
Daasa koottam sang for common people, in their own language.
The response of Kannada knowing people to Purandaradasa will naturally be more intense than that of tamils.
The same is true of Thyagaraja kruthis too.
Blessed are they who are fortunate to imbibe the poetry, theme, music,
and above all the message of these saint poets.
As you say, the music can move you even if we do not know the language but it can move much more so, when we understand the
message.
Let us not constrain these saint poets to concert platforms.
Concert platforms will surely become extinct in the coming decade thanks to web and technology.
But Thyagaraja keerthans will continue to live.
As sriramv said somewhere, Thyagaraja kruthi is being sung and studied every second in some place or other not necessarily in tamilnadu.

[ramamatya]

Instead of yapping about the greatness of Christianity and how Hindus are closer to it than others, why don't you, the disguised missionary, try to convert the lungis? Aren't you all Abrahamic and therefore brethrens? Yen, pappu ange vegalaya?

[sam]

As of 2025, the Muslim population of Delhi is 12.78% of the city's total population, which is 1,410,041 people.
.
As of 2011, the Muslim population in Uttar Pradesh was 38,483,967, which is about 19.26% of the state's population. This makes Islam the second largest religion in Uttar Pradesh. .
As of 2023, 17.70% of Bihar's population, or about 23,149,925 people, were Muslim. This makes Islam the second largest religion in Bihar, after Hinduism.
.
According to the 2011 census, West Bengal has over 24.6 million Muslims, making up 27% of the state's population.[6] The vast majority of Muslims in West Bengal are ethnic native Bengali Muslims, numbering around over 22 million and comprising 24.1% of the state population (mostly they reside in Rural areas). There also exists an Immigrants Urdu-speaking Muslim community numbering 2.6 million, constituting 2.9% of the state population and mostly resides in Urban areas of the state.eligion Percentage Total
Hindu 65.99 % 8,210,894
Muslims 20.65 % 2,568,961
Christian 3.27 % 407,031.
..
As per the 2011 Census, the Christian population in Delhi was 146,093, which is 0.87% of the city's population..
of February 2024, the Christian population in Uttar Pradesh is estimated to be around 600,000 people, which is about 0.25% of the state's population. Howe
As of 2023, the Christian population in Bihar was 129,247,
which is 0.12% of the state's population.

As of October 2023, 0.72% of West Bengal's population, or 6.59 lakh people, were Christian
Just statistics.

[Pratyaksham Bala]

.
Lamenting and wailing that Christians could not convert as much as Muslims.

[sam]

Lamenting and wailing that Christians could not convert as much as Muslims

.
Why Punjabi Dalits are turning to Christianity en masse | Ground report - India Today
.https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/w ... 2022-11-23

[Pratyaksham Bala]

Ha! Fanatic religious conversion activities in this Forum.

[sam]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 27619.html

Any real hindu knows that Thirupparankundram is one of the six padai veedus of Murugan and the first among the six, the other five being thirutthaNi, swamimalai, pazhani, thirucchendur, and pazhamuthirsolai.
Secondly, this shrine of Murugan, is as ancient as sangam literature.
There are large number of poems on this shrine in Paripaadal.
Thirumurugatruppadai.
A great feature of Murugan shrines is total ban on any type if animal or fowl sacrifice in the shrine.
.
For a brief period of 50 years, around 1300, when malik kafur raided the paandyan kingdom including Rameswaram, madurai fell into the hands of islamic hordes of delhi sultanate. For 50 years, madurai and even tanjore delta was under malabar madurai sultanate.
Vijayanagar then sent kumara kampanna to liberate the far south from the muslim rule. The last sultan at madurai then was sikander.
The hillock was conveniently renamed as sikander hill.
Jehadist miscreants emboldened by lungi clan of tmk brazenly publicly announced a non veg party at the shrine.
.
This is the background.
Please do not rush into judgements. I am as much a pious hindu as others are.
I definitely regard St.Mathew..and sermon on the mount as precious gems.

[kvchellappa]

All self-respecting people must boycott TMK and his profane music for what he wrote as to what Gandhi would have done post-Pahalgaon attack. Music be blown, nation and people, commoners, innocent ones, come first. Shame on him and those that decorate him.

[vgovindan]

Kvc,
I do not know what TMK wrote. But, Gandhi had mistaken notions about 'ahimsa'. Ahimsa, as a principle can be applied only at the individual level, and not at mass level. If I am an adherent of ahimsa, and if someone attacks me, I would remain passive - not counter the violence. But, if violence is perpetrated against some innocent and helpless person, I should not remain silent, but oppose the violence with full force, even if it causes harm to the attacker. But, in case of Moplah riots, mass murders and atrocities against women, Gandhi advocated ahimsa at mass level. This is sheer cowardice. It is not the teaching of Gita. Gandhi had all sorts of wrong notions. However, it must be conceded that he was totally honest. But such a honesty is never reciprocated by the adversary.
About Moplah riots, you may refer to quotes of Gandhi in the book of, Kesari fame, Sankaran Nair. Gandhi needs to be revisited.

[kvchellappa]

I fully agree with you, sir. TMK has been consistently writing against Hindus provocatively and unjustly. For Pahalgaon attach he has written that Gandhi would have gone there like he went to Naokali and made people recite Vedas and Koran. I read only this much. I do not think that it is what the situation demands. The union govt. has taken decisive action and we must stand by it in every way. Peace is meaningless when we are threatened at gun point and when innocent people are killed because they are Hindus.

[sam]

TMK is a Blackshirt...currying favour with the lumpen gang.
It is no wonder that he is misusing Gandhi..or perhaps following in the footsteps of Gandhi who sapped the vitality of Hindu nation by his Khilafat movement in 1916.
Even Nehru diapproved this collution between Gandhi and most reactionary moulvis of Indian muslims...and not with progrssive Indian muslim revolutionaries like Asafulla Khan of Kakhori conspiracy case.
The irony was that when Gandhi was pampering the mullas, Mustafa Kemaal Paasha of Turkey itself, overthrew the caliphate and rapidly modernized the country. Moulvis were banned and so were the madarasas.
The Khilafat spoke for the dirty imperialist jihadist Ottoman empire ..seat of the Caliohate.

Today, Turkey along with the middle eastern Islamic countries, condemns India strike on terrorist camps in PAK occupied Kashmir.
PAK is the only nuclear power at present
Gandhi was able to rouse the people by using the slogan of Ram Rajya.
So many freedom fighters lost their life.
. Lokamanya Tilak had to suffer imprisonment in Mandalay Jail in Burma
for 6 years.
. His disciple VOChithambaram Pillai was sentenced to double life imprisonment.
Savarkar was sent to andaman cellilar jail and spent 10 heart breaking jail life there. and 10 more years in Rathnagiri. in house arrest. Why did the British fear him so much? That speaks for itsekf.
Even Jawahar spent 8 years in jail on and off.
BUT GANDHI was in jail just for a few months. He was just a tactician, tacitly supported by the cunning British.
The Blackshirt blight was a supporter of Jinnah.

His CM chela follows suit.

Boycot TMK

[sam]

In the entire country, ALL the political parties including Congress and the commies have approved Modi Govt handling of the situation EXCEPT the Black shirts and tamil separatists.