Lyrics- ezhil migu tillaiyil ADum and cinnanjciru peN pOlE

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Feb 2007, 09:40

These two songs were the dance numbers performed exquisitely by Swetha Pararajasingam at the Cidambaram Natyanjali festival. The composer for the second song (sindubhairavi rAgam) is uLUndUrpeTTai Shanmugam. Perhaps Lakshman has the lyrics. If so please post. The "little dancer" with expressive eyes and deft movement was very effective in the emotive aspects.

meena · Post by **meena** » 24 Feb 2007, 09:52

cinnam ciru peN. rAgA: sindhubhairavi. Adi tALA.

1: cinnam ciru peN pOlE sitraDigaL uDukkum shivagangai kuLattarugE shrI durgai shirittiruppAL
2: peN avaLin kaN azhagai pEshi muDiyAdu perazhagukkIDAda vEronrum kiDaiyAdu
3: minnalai pOl mEni annai shivakAmi inbamellAm taruvAL eNNam ellAm uraivAL
4: pinnal jaDai pOTTu iccippu shUDiDuvAL pittanakku iNaiyAga nartanam ADiDuvAL

who's comp. is ezhil migu tillaiyil ?

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Feb 2007, 10:03

meena:
Did you post the lyrics after listening to the music done for the dance or is it from a published source?

I see some words different here from what I heard. For example

"sitraDigaL uDukkum"--- I heard it as "siRRADai iDaiyuDutti"
"muDiyAdu" and "kiDaiyAdu" --- muDiyAdE and kiDaiyAdE???
"perazhagukkIDAda" ---should read "pErazhagukkIDAga"

The rest of the words make sense to me now. I couldn't catch some words of the singer.
It is a beautiful song

meena · Post by **meena** » 24 Feb 2007, 10:10

moi source is Lji, of course

yes i did listen/watch, in order to post the txt. Yeah the singing was so so.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Feb 2007, 10:29

pichchippU sUDiDuvAL--she would wear (creeper blooming variety of) jasmine.
A beautiful song...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Feb 2007, 10:36

OK, I went back and watched/listened the video again.

Couple of more changes are in order:

iccippU ---> piccippU (it is called mullai in Thamizh, a cousin of jasmine).

Also the singer sings "eNNam ellAm taruvAL" (she will grant all wishes/thoughts). The only problem is there are two "taruvAL" one after the other.
For the other phrase " eNNam ellAm uRaivAL" (meaning :reside in your thoughts), although it makes sense, it is not proper grammatical construction. It should go as "eNNattilE (or eNNattinil) uRaivAL"

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Feb 2007, 10:42

arasi:
Your post crossed mine.
One more word I heard differently is "pErazhugukkiNaiyAga" (comapred to her striking beauty) although "pErazhagukkIDAga" means pretty much the same.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Feb 2007, 10:47

arasi:
Is "mullai" a shrub (seDi) or a creeper (koDi)? Bharathi uses it as "mullaic ceDi"

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Feb 2007, 12:21

Aha! There we go again, dealing with poets' fancy. bharathi, I don't think uses it in the exact botanical sense. cheDi appealed to him at that moment (poet's fancy). He isn't wrong either. A cheDi can mean a garden plant, which a mullai is. After reading your post, I looked up pichchi and mullai in my dictionary and it also says they are creepers. Now, pichchi also means mad. Is it because the flower has an intoxicating smell?
Personal experience: as I would sing some old compositions, sometimes I would catch myself using a word different from the original composition. Can't explain it. Possible that it is an improvement on the original, or, my memory failed, or the mood dictated it. If the bard of Avon or kAlidAsA or bhArathi kept refering to the dictionary, Muse would have got impatient and left them

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Feb 2007, 20:00

I will never even try to find fault with Bharathi. It would be sacrilegious. When it comes to Bharathi I have two rules I follow (courtesy of Stu Lennard grocery in Connecticut).
1. Bharathi is always right
2. If at all Bharathi is wrong, refer to rule #1

I can reconcile with the use of seDi for bush, shrub or creeper. It is like "nARkAli". Anything with four legs (even a baby, I guess!) can be called nARkAli. The vaLLal PAri parked his chariot so that the creeper mullai could latch on to it--mullaikkut tEr koDutta nallOn -- right?

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Feb 2007, 20:04

>>Now, pichchi also means mad. Is it because the flower has an intoxicating smell? <<

Yes, but it makes the observer (nugarvOr) (not necessarily the wearer) intoxicated!

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 24 Feb 2007, 20:42

mahakavi:
I wrote down the lyrics of cinnam ciru pen by listening to Sirkazhi Govindarajan singing this song. There may be some typos in what meena posted.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 24 Feb 2007, 21:22

The botanical name of pitchippU is 'Jasminum grandiflorum L.; Oleaceae' - Please refer to http://www.tnau.ac.in/tech/hortcg2004.pdf - Page 161

According to the following website, its Sanskrit name is 'jAti'
http://www.himalayahealthcare.com/herbf ... sminum.htm

Please also refer to Monier's Sanskrit Dictionary -
http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche

In Hindi it is called 'camEli'.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 24 Feb 2007, 21:45

Here is what I have for the lyrics.

cinnam ciru peN. rAgA: sindhubhairavi. t/Adi tALA. Composer: Ulundurpettai Shanmukham.

1: cinnam ciru peN pOlE siTrADai iDaiyuDutti shivagangai kuLattarugE shrI durgai shirittiruppAL
2: peN avaLin kaN azhagai pEshi muDiyAdu perazhagukkIDAga vEronrum kiDaiyAdu
3: minnalai pOl mEni annai shivakAmi inbamellAm taruvAL eNNam ellAm niraivAL
4: pinnal jaDai pOTTu piccippu shUDiDuvAL pittanakku iNaiyAga nartanam ADiDuvAL

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Feb 2007, 23:33

mahakavi,
I am happy you are not a mukkAli--'tAn piDiththa muyalukku mUnrE kAl' sort...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 25 Feb 2007, 01:06

But I do like tripods.
uTkArndu pAlkaRakka mukkAli ponnAlE!
Tripos is the stool (three-legged ) where Pythia (the priestess) sits to get into a trance and delivers the oracle at Delphi.

MukkAlikku oru Ode

UrellAm tEDiyoru mukkAli koNDUvandE
pArellAm tiraNDU vandu sOdiDamE kETka
sIrAna DelphiyilE kannippeN solludirkka
tIrAda kavalaigaL tIrndanavAm mAniDarkkE

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Feb 2007, 09:30

kavi avarum 'solludirkka', balE!

kutty · Post by **kutty** » 17 Jun 2007, 09:50

Lakshman

Here is what I have for the lyrics.

cinnam ciru peN. rAgA: sindhubhairavi. t/Adi tALA. Composer: Ulundurpettai Shanmukham.

1: cinnam ciru peN pOlE siTrADai iDaiyuDutti shivagangai kuLattarugE shrI durgai shirittiruppAL
2: peN avaLin kaN azhagai pEshi muDiyAdu perazhagukkIDAga vEronrum kiDaiyAdu
3: minnalai pOl mEni annai shivakAmi inbamellAm taruvAL eNNam ellAm niraivAL
4: pinnal jaDai pOTTu piccippu shUDiDuvAL pittanakku iNaiyAga nartanam ADiDuvAL

Here are some corrections, which are on the right side below:

ciru - ciRu
siTrADai – ciRRADai
shrI- cIr
durgai- tUkka (Onga also some say)
vEronrum -vERonRum

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 17 Jun 2007, 21:29

kutty wrote:Here are some corrections, which are on the right side below:

ciru - ciRu
siTrADai â€“ ciRRADai
shrI- cIr
durgai- tUkka (Onga also some say)
vEronrum -vERonRum

kutty:
Lakshman (by his own admission) does not care to distinguish between "r" (iDaiyinam) and "R" (vallinam). Also he goes by phonetics as in "tr" instead of "R". The only problem is when Thamizh folks read "r" for "R" they cannot get the proper meaning. Also if you use it for the transliteration into Thamizh script it will not make sense as in "aram" (the tool file) vs "aRam" (dharmam).

Some wag rewrote avvaiyAr's AtticcUDi as "aram seya irumbu" (to make a file you need iron) instead of "aRam seya viRumbu" (desire to be righteous).

As for shrI durgai vs sIr tUkka, I'd go for the former since in the latter there is lack of a noun until much later in the third line (annai sivakAmi) while the former states as "shrI durgai" in the first line itself.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 17 Jun 2007, 23:00

Mahakavi wrote:

The only problem is when Thamizh folks read "r" for "R" they cannot get the proper meaning.

But tamizh folks already know the proper tamil words and to know how to distinguish the characters.
What about the non tamilians who will have difficulty reading words like ciRRam peRRa tAi etc.?

meena · Post by **meena** » 17 Jun 2007, 23:02

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 17 Jun 2007, 23:13

Lakshman:
When Thamizh songs are written in an unintelligible way it is as good as not being written. As for non-Thamizh folks we are looking for everybody to be familiar with the transliteration scheme. Even if they don't know the scheme they may not understand the proper pronunciation of the words (if they don't know Thamizh) and meaning unless it is given in English. So, if one disregards the "r" vs "R" difference, the Thamizh script should be given alongside. Otherwise it does not do any good to anybody.

All Thamizh folks do not recognize the proper Thamizh words unless they see it in Thamizh script nor do they know the meanings, including yours truly! On top of that if we take the romanized version and transform it in Thamizh script you know what happens.

When I said "Lakshman does not care" it was not meant to be anything other than a matter-of-fact statement. I know your views but just stated it there. It is similar to your pet peeve that Thamizh folks pronounce the words such as gItam as gIdam, and maTam as maDam etc.

kutty · Post by **kutty** » 17 Jun 2007, 23:39

Mahakavi

As for shrI durgai vs sIr tUkka, I'd go for the former since in the latter there is lack of a noun until much later in the third line (annai sivakAmi) while the former states as "shrI durgai" in the first line itself.

Lakshman

But tamizh folks already know the proper tamil words and to know how to distinguish the characters.
What about the non tamilians who will have difficulty reading words like ciRRam peRRa tAi etc.?

Mahakavi:

After reading what you have mentioned I heard the audio of SGR who is well known for his diction. You are correct. It is undoubtedly Shree Dhurgai only.

Lakshman:

I do understand your difficulty and what you do with your limitations is marvelous. To ease difficulties for persons like you I am following my own transliteration to bring out the sound in toto in whatever language a word is pronounced. Thus, I do not write ciRRam in that way but Chitram while cIRRm will be Cheetram. PeRRa tAi will be according to my way Petra Thaai. I find it more convenient and less confusing for others whose mother tongue is not Thamizh. However, as per Mahakavi, I have to write aram (file) and aRam (dharmam) in the standard way to enable the Thamizh folks to distinguish.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 17 Jun 2007, 23:58

For the purpose of transliteration 'siRRADai' would be correct; for the purpose of pronunciation, 'siTrADai' would be correct. Accordingly, the English version of Tamil word சிற்றாடை would be input as 'siRRADai' and would be transliterated to other languages as सिट्राडै - సిట్రాడై - ಸಿಟ್ರಾಡೈ - സിട്രാഡൈ (siTrADai)

kutty,
I beg to differ with you. There must be some standard - at least common for all the South Indian languages - so that what one writes is understood correctly by others. Though CM is common for all the languages of South India, it is regrettable that we have not devised such a standard for information inter-change.