Carnatic Matrimonial Music

Dhevathai · Post by **Dhevathai** » 28 Feb 2007, 15:59

Greetings!

I am interested to know any information on the use (if any) of carnatic music at a traditional Saivite wedding. Is it possible to combine a passion for carnatic music with traditional Saivite practices?

The Thevaram is an obvious first choice for music selection, but besides the scripture route, how can one invoke the grace of the great carnatic composers as well as the supreme lord on this special occassion.

shishya · Post by **shishya** » 28 Feb 2007, 19:28

I do not know if they fit as matrimonial music, but there are lot of kritis by sri tyAgarAja and mutthuswAmi dIkshitar on Lord Shiva and umpteen compsoitions on Devi (pArvati).

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 28 Feb 2007, 20:56

I am not clear what the actual ceremonies are in the wedding you are planning, but here are some suggestions based on my experience with some tamizh weddings:
As the bride is led to the pandal the previous evening: vAdirAja's lakshmI shObhAne...(first verse of vAraNam Ayiram will also be appropriate)
As the groom enters the pandal AnDAL's 'nALai vadhuvai maNam enru' verse...
As the wedding garlands are offered to the bride and groom in the pandal - AnDAL's verse 'indiran uLLiTTa dEvar kuzham ellAm' verse...
As the wedding invitation is read - villai muRitiDum vallavanukku yenru vAkkiTTu

The day of the wedding, the bride has a ceremonial bath - start with verse from nAcciyAr tirumozhi - the verse - nAldiSai tIrthangaL followed by AnnamAcAryA's kshIrAbdhi kanyakaku nIrAjanam
As the bride enters the hall on the day of the wedding - AK's kANavEDum laskham kaNNgaL
The Unjal ceremony has it's own songs, including kaNNUnjal ADi irundAL, kAnchanamAlai manam maghizhndAL
As the bride and groom come back after the Unjal ceremony - PD's kshIrAbdi kannikE
During the saptapadi - AnDAL's 'vAi nallAr nal marai Odi mandirattAl'
Immediately after the saptapadi/mAgalyadhAraNam - Lalgudi Jayaraman's Sankaran umaiyin kaitalam paRRinAr iruvarum mAlaigaL mARRi magizhdanar .....
ammi midikkiradu - AnDAL's immaikkum EzhEzhu piravikkum verse
pori iDudal - AnDAL's nAcciyAr tirumozhi verse - variSilai vAL mugattu

nalangu has it's own set of songs including nalangiDugirAL mInalOcanI (mInAkSi nalangu)

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 28 Feb 2007, 21:11

ravi - i think some people may not prefer some of these songs in what dhevathai mentions as a traditional Saivite wedding

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 28 Feb 2007, 21:15

i wonder if there are any Unjal, nalangu type of songs with murugan and one of his consorts

Ones which refer to both consorts may not be a good idea at a wedding

!

Arun

srinidhi · Post by **srinidhi** » 28 Feb 2007, 21:58

i wonder if there are any Unjal, nalangu type of songs with murugan and one of his consorts

NIlangol mEghatin mayilmIdhe...... a tiruppugazh tuned by Guruji Ragahvan in kurinji raga

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 28 Feb 2007, 22:13

Perhaps sing 'Sita kalyanam' as 'Devi kalyanam'? This is a lovely song indeed.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 28 Feb 2007, 22:19

Oops, wrong thread! Deleted!

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 28 Feb 2007, 22:24

arunk wrote:ravi - i think some people may not prefer some of these songs in what dhevathai mentions as a traditional Saivite wedding

Arun

What is a traditional shivite wedding ? What differences exist from other wedding ceremonies?

-Ramakriya

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 28 Feb 2007, 22:28

that i dont know. But the post mentioned traditional Saivite wedding (as opposed to just a traditional wedding) and also mentioned tEvArams as the first obvious choice. So I presume that songs that refer to Saivite deities may be considered a better fit. Of course i could be wrong here.

Arun

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 28 Feb 2007, 22:35

Please visit http://www.keralaiyers.com/iyer_wdng7.html for some good songs

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Feb 2007, 22:45

Guys! Didn't imgine you know so much about weddings! Ravi, it is amazing, the way you have covered the sequence of a wedding cermony so well and have chosen apt songs! In our family circle, during the Unjal ceremony, both aNNal rAmachchandranuDan AraNangu sIthai (Ambujam Krishna) and 'ponnin oLi pUvin veRi sAndu podi sIdam' from kamba rAmAyaNa (when sItai walks into the mantapam to be married) are sung.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Feb 2007, 23:36

arasi

do post any lyrics that you have composed that may be relevant here!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 00:54

Arun,
As a tamizh Iyer, I think my family is more 'smArtA' than purely Saivaite, but these would pass muster in any of our weddings, even the most horrifyingly traditional ones.

Arasi,
Thanks for the compliment - even if I had forgotten the sequence from my wedding those many years ago, these ceremonies are etched in my mind from a childhood filled with weddings (not something unexpected, given the fecundity of my unlces and aunts!).

I actually had to stop myself from suggesting 'mukhE tE tAmbUlam, nayana yugaLEr kajjala kalA, lalAThE kASmIram...' as the bride is made up for the reception!

Arun, that should be OK given that it is the description of nagapati kiSOrI!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 01:07

Arasi,
Another song that your family's kamba rAmayaNam song reminds me, is the one that describes the bride sItA walking in to the manTapam - AK's 'annai jAnaki vandALE, bhaktar anaivarkkum (rAjAdi rAjarukku) kATSi tandALE...
'ponnin oLiyum, pU maNamum konDu, mannan janakanin maNi manTapattil naDandu vandALE'!
If you have any of your own songs, please do share.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 01:16

srinidhi wrote:
i wonder if there are any Unjal, nalangu type of songs with murugan and one of his consorts
NIlangol mEghatin mayilmIdhe...... a tiruppugazh tuned by Guruji Ragahvan in kurinji raga

Can you post the lyrics of this song, please?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 01 Mar 2007, 01:32

rshankar wrote:Can you post the lyrics of this song, please?

http://www.kaumaram.com/thiru/nt1296.html

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 02:11

Thanks, Suji!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 02:17

Saivaite SObhAnE:
SObhAnE! gOmatI samEtarukku, Sangu cakra nEyarukku, swAmi sundarESwararukku SObhAnE! girirAja putirikku, pAr pugazhum sundarikku, parandAman ISwarikku, pratyakSa sundarikku....

Arun, IIRC there is a nalangu song that goes:
'SenDADinArE! malarSenDADinArE! uyar kunjariyum guhanum sariyAi....'

meena · Post by **meena** » 01 Mar 2007, 02:48

i wonder if there are any Unjal, nalangu type of songs with murugan and one of his consorts

Arun, IIRC there is a nalangu song that goes:
'SenDADinArE! malarSenDADinArE! uyar kunjariyum guhanum sariyAi....'

shankar, is this on muruga?

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 01 Mar 2007, 03:48

Marriage Songs by Smt. Charulatha Mani:
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/c ... rtist.124/

Even Smt. Sudha Raghunathan and the bambAi sahOdarigaL (Bombay Sisters) have sung marriage songs.

I like the song sung by Bombay Sisters goes like pU pandADinAr parama sundarar pANDiyarAjar pennODu. There was also a song which went listing all the food items in mInAkSi sundarESvarar thirukkalyANam.

rshankarji, In most iyengar weddings, the 10 pAsurams of ANDAL (vAraNamAyiram) is recited during "tEngAi uRuTTal" in a peculiar meTTu. That meTTu is only for these 10 pAsurams of ANDAL and not for any other pAsuram. For me and my cousins as kids, we were more amused at the way the purOhita mAmAs recited that than even the tEngAi uRuTTal.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Mar 2007, 04:43

meena
kunjari = Deivayaanai the legal

consort of Muruga.
And of course you know guhan is Murugan...

meena · Post by **meena** » 01 Mar 2007, 04:56

cml

deivanai aka kunjari aha!news to me, thanks and valli goes by anyother name?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Mar 2007, 05:23

kuRattti

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Mar 2007, 05:50

There are tonnes and tonnes of Shadee Ki shehnayiyan albums , starting from Bismillah Khan.
Just in case one of them happens to come from above the Vindhyas.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 06:03

Meena,
deivayAnai = dEvasEnA (as in vaLLI dEvasEnApatE)
deivayAnai = kunjari = devakunjari (in nAda bindu kalAdI namO namO, muruga is refered to as 'dEvakunjari bAgA')

meena · Post by **meena** » 01 Mar 2007, 06:07

thanks shankar/cml

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 01 Mar 2007, 06:13

When I first scanned the title of this thread and saw the word "matrimonial", I though someone was posting a matrimonial ad on rasikas.org

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Mar 2007, 09:41

Mohan,
I was surprised too. Turned out to be a request for marriage songs.

Ravi, I wonder if ArunAchalak kavi was inspired by Kamban who sings about sItai in kOlam kAN paDalam, even before the wedding scene:

ponnin oLi, pUvin veRi, sAndu podi sIdam,
minnin nizhal annavaL than mEni oLi mAna,
annamum arambaiyarum, Aramizhdum nANa,
mannavai irunda maNI mandapam aDiandAL. verse 1144

With her glowing like gold, giddy as the scent of flowers, the coolness of sandal wood, the sparkle of lightening, putting to shame the swan (in her movement), the celestial maidens and the very nectar of gods, she entered the gem laden canopy in the king's court.

valliyai uyirththa nila mangai, ivaL pAdam, melliya uRaikkum ena anji, veLi engum,
pallava malarth thogai parappinaL ena, than nallaNi maNich chuDar thavazhndiDa naDandAL. verse 1140

Mother earth, fearing that her beautiful, (flowering vine-like) daughter's delicate feet would get hurt, spread an abundance of soft newly sprouted leaves and fresh flowers where her daughter treaded, with the gems in her jewelry sparkling.
Such an elegant scene set for sItai whose feet soon would traverse the floor of wild forests!

This was one of the songs in V.V.Sadagopan's all kamba rAmAyaNam concert in Chennai for kambar vizhA--circa 1950? He tuned about a dozen songs for that concert--all scholars and literati in attendance in Rajaji Hall, Rajaji himself presiding!

CML,
As for the Unjal songs I sing at weddings, they are custom made--describing and blessing that particular bride or groom I know!

Dhevathai · Post by **Dhevathai** » 01 Mar 2007, 11:51

Thank you all for the options!

It's interesting how the theme of marriage brings up endless compositions referring to SIthai.

From my limited knowledge of the lives of the Saivite saints, I believe that Lord Siva played a great role in the marriage of Sundaramoorthy Swamigal. Does anyone know of any compositions related to this particular marriage.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Mar 2007, 12:00

Thank you all for the options!

Now when and where does the Wedding take place ?
Rasikaorgites would love to get invited !!

Dhevathai · Post by **Dhevathai** » 01 Mar 2007, 12:07

Jumping to conclusions?

Just trying to broaden my very limited knowledge. I rarely get the opportunity to witness the wedding of musicians, which, unfortunately, is the only time carnatic music is demonstrated at a wedding.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Mar 2007, 12:26

which, unfortunately, is the only time carnatic music is demonstrated at a wedding

For My own marriage , I selected Carnatic Music clips for each and every stage and Worked with the Cd maker at the Mixing stage.
This was not based on the above mentioned practices of any rituals , but by the feel of the music- Like a Cine composer does.

To give it some degree of authenticity I had the privilege of taking help from a Neighbour of mine (Sister of TRS) ,who inserted the clips from her vast knowledge of Music .
I Loved her selections, especially when she chose the song Mohana Rama in a sequence where I appeared prominently !

And I say that because In my marriage Video, everyone except me appeared prominently..

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 01 Mar 2007, 12:36

coolkarni wrote:And I say that because In my marriage Video, everyone except me appeared prominently..

That sounds quite familiar!

MBK · Post by **MBK** » 01 Mar 2007, 12:48

Dhevathai wrote:... the wedding of musicians, which, unfortunately, is the only time carnatic music is demonstrated at a wedding.

....Is not quite true....
Many non-musicians & their families have opted for a kutcheri at their weddings, Birthdays, Christening Ceremonies etc.

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 01 Mar 2007, 13:56

i for one, dont subscribe to the concept of kalyana concerts. i feel its a insult to the art to call a person and ask him/her to sing/play for 3 hours when there will 2 tooth-less old men sitting with their non-working hearing aids and 14 kids running hither and thither and everybody coming in, queueing up to the stage, queueing up to the dinner hall, queueing up to the dinner table, queueing up to leave...

I am going to definitely forbid arranging a concert during my wedding (if and when it happens...)

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 01 Mar 2007, 14:26

rbharath wrote:i for one, dont subscribe to the concept of kalyana concerts. i feel its a insult to the art to call a person and ask him/her to sing/play for 3 hours when there will 2 tooth-less old men sitting with their non-working hearing aids and 14 kids running hither and thither and everybody coming in, queueing up to the stage, queueing up to the dinner hall, queueing up to the dinner table, queueing up to leave...

But only in kalyAna concerts , the artists earn their maximum remuneration, unlike sabhas and recordings which dont give them much. While it may mean disrespect for many, it ensures their livelihood is certainly taken care better.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Mar 2007, 16:15

bharath and rajesh,
There is truth in both your statements. To have, or not to to have a concert is the question . In our family, no celebration is complete without a concert. Our son got married in London, and we wanted to celebrate the event in India with music. We chose an auditorium which spelt out conert hall which had enough room outside for non-listeners to sit and chat. There was pin drop silence in the hall, and Mysore Nagaraj and Manjunath gave a beautiful performance for about three hundred people. Manjunath said they would play until the couple's anniversary --with such an audience! We lucked out with the hall--its sound system and the way it looked like a proper auditorium.
Bharath, if and when you marry

I am sure you can wing it too, with proper planning and inviting your musically inclined friends (fishing for an invitation?). My son and daughter-in-law sat in the front row from beginning to the end of the concert, and met the guests only after the two and a half hour concert! Can be done. It would be a statement against the inane social gesture of 'staging' a reception, with canned music in the background with all the chattering. There are problems to overcome. Unlike earlier times when people visited each other often, it is only at weddings that clans meet. Silence in a gathering like that is impossible.
Still, whatever the means, I am sure there is a way for rasikas to celebrate their weddings with some music.You can have a weekend concert soon after the wedding in a simple concert friendly hall, no frills, just music and some refreshment for your musically inclined friends and family.
Just an idea to mull over at a juncture when keeping up with the Jones is taking over our celebrations.and robbing them of truly cultural expressions.

Rajesh,
Yes. I hear that popular musicians ask for an exhorbitant fee. We could turn things around by making musicians WANT to perform at weddings, as with chamber music, just for a good audience and a reasonable remuneration...

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 01 Mar 2007, 17:09

Why restrict this to marriages only. Why not upanayanam, shashtyabdapoorthi, shatabhishekam etc. (Or do we have these already?)

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 20:55

arasi wrote:Ravi, I wonder if ArunAchalak kavi was inspired by Kamban who sings about sItai in kOlam kAN paDalam, even before the wedding scene:

ponnin oLi, pUvin veRi, sAndu podi sIdam,
minnin nizhal annavaL than mEni oLi mAna,
annamum arambaiyarum, Aramizhdum nANa,
mannavai irunda maNI mandapam aDiandAL. verse 1144

With her glowing like gold, giddy as the scent of flowers, the coolness of sandal wood, the sparkle of lightening, putting to shame the swan (in her movement), the celestial maidens and the very nectar of gods, she entered the gem laden canopy in the king's court.

valliyai uyirththa nila mangai, ivaL pAdam, melliya uRaikkum ena anji, veLi engum,
pallava malarth thogai parappinaL ena, than nallaNi maNich chuDar thavazhndiDa naDandAL. verse 1140

Mother earth, fearing that her beautiful, (flowering vine-like) daughter's delicate feet would get hurt, spread an abundance of soft newly sprouted leaves and fresh flowers where her daughter treaded, with the gems in her jewelry sparkling.
Such an elegant scene set for sItai whose feet soon would traverse the floor of wild forests!

This was one of the songs in V.V.Sadagopan's all kamba rAmAyaNam concert in Chennai for kambar vizhA--circa 1950? He tuned about a dozen songs for that concert--all scholars and literati in attendance in Rajaji Hall, Rajaji himself presiding!

Thanks Arasi for those lovely verses. It is easy to forget from these descriptions of bedazzling beauty that the princess in quuestion was just 8 years old. AK was certainly inspired by Kamban - he uses the same visual imagery, including references to 'bhUmiAgiya tan tAi'..as sItA walks in.....

Arun,
While references to both of Murugan's consorts may be rare in wedding songs, there is certainly one which refers to 'SaSi vadana rukmiNi satyabhAma lOlA' - so, the topic per-se doesn't appear taboo.

srinidhi · Post by **srinidhi** » 01 Mar 2007, 20:56

arunk wrote:i wonder if there are any Unjal, nalangu type of songs with murugan and one of his consorts

Ones which refer to both consorts may not be a good idea at a wedding !

Arun

Guruji Sri Raghavan has formatted "Valli Kalyanam" by selecting relevant lines from various tiruppugazhs to cover all the imoprtant rituals.

While references to both of Murugan's consorts may be rare in wedding songs, there is certainly one which refers to 'SaSi vadana rukmiNi satyabhAma lOlA' - so, the topic per-se doesn't appear taboo.

Why should we understand the concept of two wives in a wordly way? Murugan is GyAna Shakti, Valli is His ichchA ShaktI and Devayanai is His kriyA shakti

Devayanai was a prize He won (if I can put it that way) from Indra when He subduded the demon SUrapadman. She represents His moving force, His kinetic power.

Valli, on the other hand, pined and waited for Him to come and take her. She is considered as Lakshmi's daughter - an amsha of Lakshmi herself. (That is why Vishnu is referred to as Murugan's father-in- law as well as his uncle) And like Sita she too was "found" by the forest chief Nambirajan. Valli represents the human soul- the jeevatma yearning to be united with the parmatma.

Nothing wrong with singing these songs in a wedding- if we understand the true meaning.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 20:57

jayaram wrote:Why restrict this to marriages only. Why not upanayanam, shashtyabdapoorthi, shatabhishekam etc. (Or do we have these already?)

vazhaipazhattil Usi?

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 01 Mar 2007, 21:04

Once when asked about singing in marriage concerts a famous artist said : "Every day I practice for about 2 hrs in my house. If some one is willing to pay me to do that , along with accompaniments, why not"

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Mar 2007, 21:28

Coming to think of it, haven't they been a long standing tradition, wedding concerts--like temple concerts? Patrons of music--both the initiated and the uninitiated--have invited musicians to perform at their family weddings. The wealthier and (or) more musically minded they were, the more the number of concerts. As far as I know, S.S.Vasan, the De Mille of south indian cinema and publisher of tamizh nAdu's then most popular magazine, Ananda vikatan, celebrated his daughter's wedding on a grand scale. The number of musicians and dancers who performed for the event is mind boggling! T.N.Rajaratnam was not the only nadaswara vidwan--he alone performed for five hours! I cannot think of a single famous artiste who did not sing or dance during the four day wedding! Not only did I hear and see hours of music and dance--I spotted the rest of the stars in the audience. The scene was like nothing else I have seen in my entire life. It seemed as though the spotlight was not on the bride and groom, but on those who were exponents in the performing arts. I thought I was let loose in wonderland--a mere child, taking it all in, not understanding the full impact of it, but being exhilarated, none the less...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Mar 2007, 21:45

Shankar
It is not 'vazhaipazhattil Usi'
it is 'UsippOna vAzahaipazhaM'

nice recollection arasi
I remember reading all about it then...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 01 Mar 2007, 22:25

Well, a few years ago my wife and I celebrated the wedding of our daughter in a Hindu ceremonial mode in a small town in the midwest inviting a priest from the Balaji temple in Chicago. During the various sequences of the wedding we played the appropriate marriage songs from the CD (Sudha Ragunathan) including "mAlai sAttinAL kOdai mAlai mARRinAL ..", "manmadanukku mAlaiyiTTALE..", "nalangiDa vArum rAjA.." and a few others. Finally when the lunch was ready, " bhOjanam seyya vArungO..". When the last song was explained in English the crowd raced to the dining hall!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 01 Mar 2007, 22:33

cmlover wrote:Shankar
It is not 'vazhaipazhattil Usi'
it is 'UsippOna vAzahaipazhaM'

..

It is worse than that. It is azhugippOna vAzhaippazham!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Mar 2007, 22:33

Usi pOna vAzhaip pazham uvakkumO?
Note the missing ippannA!:)

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 01 Mar 2007, 22:52

Perhaps an appropriate song to render at one of these events would be 'Nidhichala sukhama'?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Mar 2007, 23:11

And remind the bride's father of 'nidhi' when he sees himself going bankrupt by the minute?