Keeping track of Tala

new1 · Post by **new1** » 23 Feb 2007, 20:34

Why do Carnatic musicians tap their fingers/palm on their thigs (sometimes quite vigorously) to keep track of the beat whereas Hindustani musicians dont seem to do this? How do they keep track / stay in sync then? Are the taal systems different or is it just habit?

Thanks in advance!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 23 Feb 2007, 21:28

The tabla player keeps time and informs, by the pattern of his play, the whereabouts in the rhythmic cycle, for Hindustani musicians.

The mridangam player does not do that.

...that is the 'standard' answer. The fact that vocalists are able to do this, while instrumentalists are not, due to lack of free hands, may mean it is actually wrong!

ravi2006 · Post by **ravi2006** » 24 Feb 2007, 04:32

From what little I know of the Hindustani system, it takes a lot of practice along with tabla accompaniment (or nowadays an electronic equivalent) for singers to get accustomed to recognising from the tabla sound where in the tala they are.

In CM, good mridangam players often make judicious use of cross-rhythms to emphasise the rhythmic structure of songs. Therefore, the singer needs to keep tala independently or (s)he will likely get distracted by the mridangam.

Having said that, I don't see why a singer with good laya-gnanam can't sometimes keep the tala in their mind like instrumentalists have to do, and give their thighs a break from the relentless slapping. (Some CM singers like Balamurali don't always put tala visibly but manage to never slip a beat).

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 03 Mar 2007, 05:34

Dear members, new1, nick H & ravi2006, As per our true Indian tradition we follow to render the constituent Talangas like Anudruta, Druta, Laghu, Guru, Pluta and Kakapada of the required Tala. Our tradition is based on keeping the higher interests in tact and accordingly this is more convenient not only to the render but also to the observer and not only to render longer Talas but also the shorter ones. msakella.

pallavi.pr · Post by **pallavi.pr** » 07 Mar 2007, 11:22

HI Rasikas,

Carnatic music is highly scientific and has a lot of mathematics involved in it. Because of which the different signs of expressing maths which is through beats is used. It is rather important for a vocalist to put the ThaaLam clearly for the accompanists, himself and for the audience also!

gb · Post by gb » 06 May 2007, 18:57

Hi,
On the Hindustani tabla player takes care of the tala.. when he plays na dhin dhin na na dhin dhin na.. when he comes to the second part of the talam he will give a sharp na thin dhin na... this will help the singer to know on which part of the talam he is singing..

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 May 2007, 09:49

It is so helpful to many of us when an artist puts talam clearly, properly showing the finger counts, or at least putting the claps and not confusing expressional gestures with the waves.

But, should they not do so, we must accept their style and enjoy their voice

Music · Post by **Music** » 09 May 2007, 23:21

What about keeping tala on track? 'Putting' the tala sounds simple, but not as easy at it seems. I have seen people (mostly amateurs, I should say) slow down the tala or increase the pace of the tala depending on how the they are progressing with the song. They don't seem to be aware of such undulations in their tala either.
Also, keeping the tala going right for a taniavartanam is not easy either - especially when you get lost in deciphering/enjoying the patterns the mridangam artist is playing. Needs lots of concentration.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 10 May 2007, 10:41

You mean when performing? Yes, it is a common fault of amateurs and inexperienced students, not to have accurate timekeeping. This is probably just as true in other musical traditions too!

It is not even unknown to see youngsters putting talam just plain wrong --- though I would have thought it harder to hit the leg off-beat, but I'm not a performer, so what do I know?

Whilst carnatic musicians have a stunningly accurate sense of timing, no human is a machine and it is very hard to put talam accurately without having both that inner-clock laya sense and an understanding of what is being performed.

Especially during the thani, where a nadai change can leave us lesser beings totally lost or mistakenly changing our tala to 'fit' what we think is being played.

Yes; it's tough!

And, so often, I'd rather just sit back and enjoy the music --- which is one reason I'm a bad student!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 10 May 2007, 18:26

On the Hindustani tabla player takes care of the tala.. when he plays na dhin dhin na na dhin dhin na.. when he comes to the second part of the talam he will give a sharp na thin dhin na... this will help the singer to know on which part of the talam he is singing

gb
TRS refers to the same issue here.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/sky4qb