Chennai or USA?

narendra · Post by **narendra** » 25 May 2007, 22:13

For Karnatic music, Chennai or does it matter where you live?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 May 2007, 03:30

Narendra,

Does it matter where we live?
Do the computers, CDs and tapes
Refuse to play CM if you are in Sydney,
New Jersey or in any borough in London?
Do all the above in chennai ONLY play CM?
Can CM not thrive next door to fillum music,
Rap, symphony rock. jazz and opera?

Do we need the marina of old Madras,
Music Academy and many temples to
make us merge with great carnatic music?
Don't tyagaraja utsavams in any place other than thiruvaiyAru count? Don't tamburas, other instruments
And god given voices work elsewhere?--Finally, can
Verses and sentences only be written in ???????????

dancingmaiden · Post by **dancingmaiden** » 08 Jul 2007, 21:42

From an atheist's point of view, Chennai or USA, it does not matter: the computers, and cotton jeans are the same, and the hamburgers are the same.

From someone who is aware (consciously or subconsiously) of the subtle (spiritual) atmosphere and the regional influences of different deva's, Chennai is clearly the main center coming under the influence of the deva's and gandharva's who govern CM and Bharatanatyam

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Jul 2007, 01:42

dancing maiden,
Point taken. I only wish you hadn't used the word 'governed'

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 09 Jul 2007, 06:32

During a Sydney concert featuring great vidwans TN Krishnan and Umayalpuram Sivaraman around 10 years ago, Sri UKS announced that Sri TNK has made Sydney, Mylapore and Mylapore, Sydney.

If you close your eyes while listening to music you can imagine to be anywhere you wish!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Jul 2007, 06:49

Well said...

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 09 Jul 2007, 19:55

Chennai of course!

You can hear a concert everyday for free and hear budding artistes who will become tomorrow's stars.

Where else would you want to sit on the floor and hear Sanjay doing alapana of Kapi Narayaini in Thyagaraja's sannidhi or singing Vazhi maraithu on Sivarathri night.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Jul 2007, 20:17

Of course, you are allowed the pride of your cultural city! But you see, beggars can't be choosers. We aliens learn to live with what music we have, and make the most of it. That's why we come thirsting for 'live music' when we can make a trip to chennai and other places in India...

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 09 Jul 2007, 20:28

And oh did I mention the pongal prasadham after the concert

?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Jul 2007, 20:36

Surely, you didn't get the pongal in the SivarAtri concert? Unlikely in a SivA temple. Must have been at the tyAgarAjA concert...

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 10 Jul 2007, 00:35

pongal.... sundal... c'mon... lets not split hairs here

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jul 2007, 02:04

I didn't even get to savor the SunDal. Why would I be fussy? Beggars can't be choosers

Possible that you got SuNDal there AND pongal at the other venue...

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 10 Jul 2007, 04:39

I have never tasted a better veNpongal than the prasAdam I got in Chidambaram Nataraja temple on my last visit in April 2006. Was it the pongal or the sanctity of the place, I can't tell. I have been to Madras a few times in the last 46 years here and every time I relished the music season better but shuddered at the thought being run over by unruly traffic in T-Nagar. No pedestrian crossings, no traffic cops in busy intersections. I marvel at the people who survive in the city on a daily basis. Should I dare to go the next December ?

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 10 Jul 2007, 12:12

I've attended a lot of concerts in Chennai (during the season) and quite a few in Sydney, Melbourne and a handful in Cleveland. Quite often I have found the overseas concerts are better because of better acoustics and audience comfort, more time allocated and the relaxed state of the artiste. During the Chennai music season, you can sometimes hear the strain of the voices due to over commitment to concerts and people are rushing (audience and artistes) to get to the next concert or home before the last auto leaves!

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 10 Jul 2007, 13:17

mOhan
In chennai the best time to hear is just prior to December season starting (before December 15th). Infact last year was a superb year for me when I heard a lot of gAyatri venkat ,madurai gs mani,suryaprakAsh,bmk jr,abhisek raghurAman etc.. in what I call tier 2 sabhas in the prime evening slot Also during gOkulAshtami season in SKGS in the month of Aug/Sept it is fantastic. Post Decemeber 3rd week , we are all at risk.

On a side note, lot of artist say they have given their best and their mind is completely relaxed when they give overseas concerts. I am told Shri LGJ composed lot of tillAna's and/or varnams only in one of his North America tour.But there is definitley one disadvantage in overseas tours, there is too much of clubbing during the weekends and sometimes their travel to and from the airport just before the concert creates significant fatigue which certainly shows up in the concert. But that fatigue can be even here at chennai when they are struck in traffic jam.

Empathies to all performers, those days ariyakudi and semmangudi had to board a midnight 2 o clock train to their next concert venue.IIRC, there is an incident where ariyakudi had to board a train in late night at erode where semmangudi was also travelling in a II class compartment(II class compartment will have a wooden berth, I have just experienced that legacy in my teenaged days, your spine may break). But now with the comfort you get burned with the traffic and travel delay. No solution excepting the fact that the musicians just have to forget and just surrender to God and give 100 % at every venue every time.

Recollect a 2004/2005? Jan concert,when NungambAkkam cultural academy conducted aruna sayeerAm's concert , post tani, a teenaged girl stood up and shouted taaye yashOdA. Smt arunA sayeerAm said "taayE yashOdA, ippaya mA, nAngalE Odi Odi kadasi kambatha thOduvama illayAnnu irukkOm (we are running mad now, we are afraid, as to whether we will ever reach the final post )". She got a very big round of applause when she spoke that, well that is arunA and that explains why she is a
great crowd puller, be it chennai or USA or bangalore or sydney.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 10 Jul 2007, 14:04

Sundara Rajan wrote:No pedestrian crossings, no traffic cops in busy intersections.

As someone who has to survive TNagar everyday, I can assure you the cops are there. During festival times, they do a very good job of managing the traffic with the resources they have. There are limits to what one can do when the entire city converges to 3 shops on the same road.

But then, as a kid I used to run bare feet from my home to the bus stand to practise for sports day. We used to set targets like beating the cyclists and sometimes the TVS 50s running in front of us. Those days are gone.. Armed with treadmills and Nike shoes, children are more confident these days, but running has lost its old world charm!!! Maybe, its time to head to Africa to relive those old days.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 10 Jul 2007, 19:57

I am afraid that I find Chennai concerts disappointing compared to London.

On the one side, the sabhas and the artist seem determined to give us half-concerts only, and on the other the audiences are so badly behaved it is hard to concentrate on the stage anyway.

However, there is also the difference that in London my concert spending was a major part of my budget, whereas here it is negligible.

It is also all too easy to criticize when surrounded not only by plenty but by excess!

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 10 Jul 2007, 20:13

As recently as in April 2006, after almost a decade, I was in T-Nagar and had to do some shopping in the area around Panagal park (?) The busy intersections where several jewellary shops and saree shops are located ( I am not familiar with the names of the streets etc., a friend took me around) had no traffic lights, no marked pedestrian crossings , no traffic constables at any time of the day and pedestrians had to cross the streets at their own risk of being run over by unruly speedy drivers of all sorts of vehicles. The explosion of population in the city since I lived in Tamil Nadu half a century ago is a major contributing factor, I agree. But, concurrent with the expansion of business in the area ( and resultant tax revenue) the city/state goventments should improve the facilities for the citizens, not just on festival days only. In the four days I was in the area, I witnessed three accident fatalities and multiple fender benders. I guess that sbala and I must talking about different locations.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 10 Jul 2007, 20:54

If you are referring to Usman Road near Pothys, you definitely have traffic cops there.
I know a man who is wafer thin but always there around 7am. I agree things are not ideal but I ask you if the citizens are doing their bit.

I know many managers driving all the way upto the IT corridor alone in their newly acquired flashy cars. This is inspite of their companies running 100 buses everyday. Ofcourse, they blame the traffic when they are driving..The same conceited fellow grabs every unsuspecting developer in the Bay Area to take the carpool lane.

I don't want this thread to become a Rang De Basanti argument but you probably know which side I'm leaning towards..However, if you are interested in learning more on what the government is doing , this might be a good start

http://www.tn.gov.in/policynotes/pdf/transport.pdf

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jul 2007, 21:44

sbala,
Yes, the general public has to cooperate too, in following rules as pedestrians and drivers. This applies to keeping the roads clean and to other civic duties as well.
Your 'wafer-thin man' policeman makes me wonder. I would look out for him next time I am in the Usman road vicinity. Is he wafer thin in order to avoid being hit by irrational drivers?

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 10 Jul 2007, 22:14

Those who have visited Simla would know that the main shopping complex - called 'The Mall' - has no vehicular traffic. But then, it is Chennai - and Tamil Nadu - where even wearing a helment (for one's own safety) is to be fought in Courts. So much for traffic sense.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 10 Jul 2007, 22:21

Arasi,
Everytime I think of quitting my job and heading towards the mountains, Chennai turns around and shows me something new, effectively scuttling my vision of a dream home in the Himalayas. This cop is one such person, who has managed to keep me away from the snow. What a boring job it must be to control a bunch of adults, who should know better. He might be frail but mess with him at your own peril..I've seen him take a guy to task for driving on the wrong side early morning!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 10 Jul 2007, 23:02

Actually it would be a great idea to make Pondy Bazar and Usman Rd. vehicle free! I am sure Saravana's and GRT and the rest of the boys will spring for some electric powered shuttles

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 11 Jul 2007, 12:42

Chennai is much much better compared to most other metros in terms of traffic. I actually saved 1-1.5 hours every day after moving from Bombay. The story is pretty much the same in most of the other big cities..

I am not sure whether there is any point in comparisons with the Bay Area given that our per capita income is a hundredth of theirs...although what little is available could probably be better utilized.

dancingmaiden · Post by **dancingmaiden** » 11 Jul 2007, 13:13

So, eventually this "Karnatic music" thread turned to traffic in T.Nagar and cops....

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 11 Jul 2007, 13:31

systems are better abroad,
music is more melodious,
money, wealth and honey
every wish aplenty there
but i need a place where i can sit in a high pedestral and expect people to applaud me from down
what to do?
i've to come to india.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 11 Jul 2007, 14:39

Vijay,
Ofcourse, we can't replicate Bay Area here. But, individuals who have come across certain good practices there can follow the same here. The government is certainly not coming in the way there. If ur really jobless, I would recommend you to find a nice tea stall and start counting the number of cars plying on a busy road with just the driver alone. I'm sure you will get one for every 3 avarthanams of Adi Thalam

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Jul 2007, 19:48

dancingmaiden,
We are not veering too much away from the subject. I have heard of a dancing cop somewhere. Besides dancing maidens and men, there are those who practise their favored form of arts while working as well...

apasruthi · Post by **apasruthi** » 12 Jul 2007, 11:58

However greener the turf was on the Cricket ground in Ireland, where the recent India / South Africa series was held, it couldn't be as green as in Lord's cricket ground...

Whatever Cleveland can offer, would it be same like that in RR Sabha or Indian Fine Arts or in Sastri Hall..

For those who can't make it to Chennai, the grapes would always be sour..

Apasruthi

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Jul 2007, 20:28

Not necessarily! If it were so, life away from home would have been decades of ruing and putting on puckered faces! Not if you went by the saying 'yAdum UrE' (it is home,wherever you make your home). I would repeat what Mohan said: you can close your eyes and listen to the music and enjoy it, no matter where you happen to be...

apasruthi · Post by **apasruthi** » 13 Jul 2007, 09:03

Arasi:

I never knew that there is a twist to the Aesop's "Grapes are sour" fable till I saw your comments!. Extending this logic, I think by closing our eyes and eating, even "Marathangaali kaai" (if you know which berry I'm referring to), could become sweet grapes

Well I'm not comparing the overall cost / benefit analysis between the two places. I'm only commenting with reference to enjoying CM... With respect to enjoying CM in Chennai, in any of those sabhas, there is an irreplaceable charm about the whole atmospehre, the audience, the canteen, and what have you, as much as there is a charm in watching cricket in Lords or Chepauk or Tennis in Wimbledon rather than in Singapore ground or Dhaka ground or Torronto.

The place and the venue and the people there along with all the other paraphernalia makes its own unique setting, that's all what I mean. Being an ex-NRI, I can feel the difference all the more..

We have a saying. By closing the eyes, the cat thought the world is dark!!

Apasruthi

P.S. "Maahol karke bhi ek cheez hai na.." (Sorry for those who can't follow hindi)

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 13 Jul 2007, 13:30

apasruthi wrote:Being an ex-NRI, I can feel the difference all the more..

Kind of like being an ex-smoker I suppose

They are usually most vehemently anti-smoking!

srinivasasarma · Post by **srinivasasarma** » 13 Jul 2007, 13:39

Long before, a concert by MDR, at triplicane hindu high school-me and my brothers were present. honestly i dint know technicalities, but i knew to find out some rAgAs, somehow an attraction to MDR"s music. during an alApanA
my brother asked me "yenna rAgam?" i replied may be madyamAvati or manirangu. suddenly an unknown face, unshaven for a couple of weeks, with tobacco in his mouth, smelling horrible, peeped in between me and my brother and said "what is the doubt, ghAndharam speeks very clearly". he looked down at us and went away !

another concert by m.santhanam.(at marriage reception). During the nice neraval of mOhanam (so great) a cook
was talking to another"this is just 20/30 pct of his father's." Then he saw me and said "sir i tell you, no one can sing like his father. this is nothing"

I can say manythings like this.

And suchpleasant experiences you cant have anywhere than India, chennai. but when you are away from India, the way you organise concerts at a far off place, join together, attending to the same and above all knowing more abt music, learning thru internet, discussing and sharing with others- is really remarkable.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Jul 2007, 21:19

I just read Gowri Ramnarayan's article about violinist Ganesh and Kumaresh's father, posted on the forum today. As much as he missed his music (listening to it too, as in our case) while his job took him to virtually CM-less parts of India, he was determined to keep it alive by bringing CM vidwans to the south indian community in town. His own talents found expression in teaching his sons and children of others.
Yes, the internet is a blessing, so is modern media for those of us who do not live in India. In the sixties and seventies, spool tapes and cassettes became our musical diet. I don't deny that there isn't anything like attending performances in Chennai. Look what Sri. Rajagopaln says about wanting to make CM flourish as much in small cities and towns of tamizh nADu as in Chennai! We cannot assume that vidwans and vidushis do not give their best in other cities like Hyderabad, Bangalore and other smaller cities! That makes CM an exclusive treat for chennaivAsis alone. While we recognize that chennai is the capital of CM, other parts of the country and of the world too, are alive with music and that is how it should be. We cannot say that unless you live in Mylapore, you don't experience CM to the full, the same with Matunga in Bombay, Carol Bagh in Delhi, Malleswaram in Bangalore, and so on

apasruthi · Post by **apasruthi** » 14 Jul 2007, 09:59

Arasi:

I can fully understand the plight of a non-Chennai vaasi. When I could not be in Chennai, how I missed the season I only knew...

And, full appreciation to the rasikas and organisers who strive hard to keep the CM tradition intact and popular outside Chennai and even outside India, I'm sure the vidwans and vidushis have no complaints or qualms about it specially getting green bucks as well, so this should continue and spread even wider to remote places. And some of them do make a special mark over a period of time, like Shanmughananda sabha of Mumbai, Cleveland festival etc, a-la Sharjah turned out to be the Mecca of Asian cricket over a period of time, though it started of as an off-beat venue..

Neither am I saying that the Vidwans and Vidushis do not perform better outside Chennai, maybe some of them are doing better outside only, who knows (atleast listening to them in Chennai makes one wonder, how the hell are they so popular!)

All that I'm saying is from a rasika's (listener's) point of view (not vidwan's or vidushi's), that enjoying CM in Chennai has its own unique charm...Mahol tho alag hi alag hai (like the caption in Maggi Tomoto ketchup ad of Javed Jaffrey and Pankaj Kapoor - "It's different!". That's it. Period);)

Apasruthi

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 14 Jul 2007, 19:39

Absolutely. Each venue has its own merit. But Chennai reigns...

vigneshbal · Post by **vigneshbal** » 15 Jul 2007, 00:35

Why at all this question... Chennai it is... USA can never come any where closer to chennai.. Tell me a top level performing internationally acclaimed carnatic music from any where other than Chennai? Dont tell .. Trichy sankaran.. His case is different.. USA is all about just hype.. No way it is near chennai or even for that matter Bangalore.. I dont find all that great standard when i see cleaveland concerts in Jaya TV..