Neyveli Santhanagopalan - 23.7.07

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 25 Jul 2007, 01:09

Neyveli Santhanagopalan - Vocal
V.V.Ravi - Violin
Umayalpuram Sivaraman - Mrudangam
E.M.Subramaniam - Ghatam
Mrs. Meera Santhanagopalan - Tambura

When jnAna is expressed fully in â€œperformanceâ€

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 25 Jul 2007, 02:25

Sri Nagaraj,
A great and heartfelt review - thanks for letting us vicariously share your rasAnubhava! Some of us do not have the fortune of attending these concerts.

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 25 Jul 2007, 02:42

thank you rshankar....

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 25 Jul 2007, 03:38

Erode,
Thanks for the review. Neyveli and UmaiyAlpuram together! Double the value in sowkyam. A concert one wouldn't want to miss. The attendance of several musicians speaks of the vidwat of the artistes...

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 25 Jul 2007, 09:13

erode
excellent review, especially shri UKS choice of vAnanai -keeravAni- thevaram is one of the best choice .

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Jul 2007, 17:49

Just realizing that a review could be just as entertaining as a concert itself when it is masterfully presented by a seasoned rasika. The sprinkling of 'technical' details in the right amount makes it all tthe more enjoyable. Since I knew all the pieces I could ride my dream horse and visualize the whole concert in my mind. Thank you so much Nagaraj. Pl keep it up for us whenever you can! NSG/UKS are indeed 'sangita d^riShTA' whose insight into CM is a boon for us. They could make the sublime so simple that even a common man can get enthused and appreciate CM meaningfully. No doubt the hall was packed with celebrities who would have come as much to learn as to enjoy the fine CM.

I thought 'aran' is the legal tamilized version of sanskrit 'haran' (haratEti (one who takes away life/(as well as sins)). But your independant tamil interpretation is really beautiful!

Thank you!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 25 Jul 2007, 21:46

cmlover wrote:I thought 'aran' is the legal tamilized version of sanskrit 'haran' (haratEti (one who takes away life/(as well as sins)). But your independant tamil interpretation is really beautiful!

Thank you!

cmlover:
If you are talking about the tEvAram song, "vAnanai..", then it is Aranai that erode nAgaraj is interpreting as "the one who wears the garland hAram --->Aram
haran -->aran is what you are referring to, which is a given. In the tEvAram song there is no mention of haran. In the two stanzas of appar's tEvAram sung by NSG, all the beginning words start with "neDil" (dhIrgam?) letters.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Jul 2007, 23:21

Thanks sub, Got it!
neDiliDatthu kuRil kaNDathen kuRayE

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 25 Jul 2007, 23:27

kuRayE ----> kuRaiyE

...since you like to accept (graciously, I might say) nitpicking in stride!!!!!!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Jul 2007, 00:02

If
(ilayO == illaiyO) then
kuRayE = kuRaiyE

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 Jul 2007, 02:07

ilayO (இலயோ) is not the same as illaiyO (இல்லையோ).
But
ilaiyO (இலையோ) is the same as illaiyO (இல்லையோ)

Example from Desika Vinayagam Pillai's song, "indap parAmugam Edu Ezhai en mIdu"
caraNam: SilaiyO- nI oru SilaiyO
nI en muRai kETTilaiyO
vara Idenna tolaiyO
vandAl en kuRai malaiyO--krupai illaiyO

சிலையோ- நீ ஒரு சிலையோ
நீ என் முறை கேட்டிலையோ
வர ஈதென்ன தொலையோ
வந்தால் என் குறை மலையோ--க்ருபை இல்லையோ

So kuRayE (குறயே) is not the same as kuRaiyE (குறையே) but just a kuRai (குறை)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Jul 2007, 02:37

Note
aiyiRu pothuppeyarkku Ayum avum
urupAm allavaRRAyumAkum
--nannool SollathikAram 306

I reserve now the right to engage 'arasi' as the defense counsel

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jul 2007, 03:45

CML,
Thank you for your confidence (adanilum, abimAnam--caring comraderie)!
However,
'tagudi illAt tanmaiyinAl talai vaNangi odunguginREn,
ilakkaNam viLakkeNNai enRa SiRu vayadin pEdamaiyAl;
'pEdai ivaLE' ena maRROr kURu munbE, viDai peRuginREn!'

(Because of my not being qualified for it, I bow down and decline the honor. I was foolish enough to reject grammar
when I was young, deeming it unsavory. I would leave before someone calls out, 'oh, this foolish woman!').

I can recommend others, though! DRS, if he isn't that busy, Govindan who is an authority. Anyway, you say it with a twinkle in your eyes, I can see. You are capable of being your own select team of lawyers...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Jul 2007, 05:13

Thanks arasi!
I invited your company not for any strength in grammar but based on
'ulaga vazhakku' (common usage) on which you are most competant.

You may know the story of 'kambar vs oTTakkUtthar' (I will be happy to narrate!) on the word 'thuvi' on which Goddess Sarasvati herself mediates on Kambar's behalf.

May I not invoke the help of 'rajee'!
(incidentally I claim kuRayE/koRayE are all acceptable in common parlance for the grammatically correct 'kuRaiyE'.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jul 2007, 07:22

nArAz hOnE se, rAzi karnA baDHiyA cIz hain nA?
(Isn't it better to make peace than to get angry?).

Khair, nAm tO accA diyEn hain mErE lOg!
(Well, I lucked out with the name-s my folks gave me)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Jul 2007, 07:43

mErE khayAl sE rAjA ki strIlinga rAjI hai |
isliyE istEmAl kiyA thA |
siraph nAm ke vAstE nahin balki insAf kE vAstE hI rAjI ko bulAyA hUn |

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jul 2007, 08:07

insAf kA mandir tO BHAGWAN kA ghar hai!

My! I have veered the thread way away from NSG's concert. Apologies...

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 26 Jul 2007, 14:03

dear all,

thank you for your responses.

i happened to check the meaning of Aranai in thEvAram book itself, a month before i visited DETROIT [michigan,usa], to teach rhythmic intricacies to shivakumar bhat and kasthuri shivakumar.

they are performing artistes and they also run a school " International Academy of Indian Music."

since they are sishyas of shri nsg, i went through some popular krithis that anna sings often...

erode nagaraj

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 26 Jul 2007, 17:28

CML wrote:
mErE khayAl sE rAjA ki strIlinga rAjI hai |
isliyE istEmAl kiyA thA |
siraph nAm ke vAstE nahin balki insAf kE vAstE hI rAjI ko bulAyA hUn |

Translation CML !

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Jul 2007, 19:24

Sorry Lji! Got carried off by arasi with my oldworld samttering of Hindustaani

I meant

"In my opinion rAjI is the feminine form of rAjA.
Hence I employed it (that word!)
Not just for namesake only, but for justice that I have invoked rAjI herein "

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 Jul 2007, 20:16

cmlover wrote:Note
aiyiRu pothuppeyarkku Ayum avum
urupAm allavaRRAyumAkum
--nannool SollathikAram 306

cmlover:
My knowledge of Thamizh grammar is zilch to minimal. If it means "kuRa" can be read as "kuRai" ( that is, the vihudi "i" need not be used in common words) by the sUttiram that you quoted above, I will concede your point that "kuRayE" is equivalent to "kuRaiyE". No need to rope in other experts!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Jul 2007, 20:47

Sub don't worry! I tried to pull the famous 'Diderot vs Euler on the existence of God' trick on you! Just for Fun.
But the Sutra is true. It just says that the the ending 'ai' in nouns can be optinally replaced with 'A'.
( 'ai' IRu (coming at the end) pothuppearkku (in common nouns) 'Ay'um 'A' vum (i.e., the letters 'Ay' or 'A') urupu Am (can be substitute letters).
e.g., annai ----> annAy
ammai -----> ammA
etc.,
Not that these substitutions are always acceptable! But then the 'ulaga vazhakku' that I cited is always acceptable!
eg., panai maram ---> pana maram etc.,

Just invited arasi to have more 'fun'. Cheers!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 Jul 2007, 21:03

Let me get this right.
kai---> ka or kA or kAy ?
yAnai --> yAnA or yAnAy ? ( yAna vandudu yAna enga vandudu yAna !!!!)
sumai --> sumAy or sumA ?

I am sure you know it is not "if it is yAnaikku arram kudiraikkuk kurram".

I knew of some exceptions but as you say the rule was meant only for a few exceptions. ilakkaNam came first (tolkAppiyar) and ilakkiyam followed later conforming to ilakkaNam mostly but flouting it occasionally. Even ilakkaNam provided a means for a few exceptions.But to stretch it to our whims......??????

As for "pana maram", it is more a pronunciation variance. You still have to write "panai maram". "pana" is more like the southern expression in the US, such as "ma mother" for "my mother".

Take it easy!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jul 2007, 03:59

mahakavi,
Since you strive for accuracy (I am impressed, of course) and are a scientist, I understand your lack of interest in what a folk woman who happens to have a royal name has to say. However, I am surprised that you would seriously call me an expert (I note it is not in quotes) even though it may be in 'basket weaving' as trivial subjects are called in collegiate vaZhakku' (parlance)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jul 2007, 04:03

By the way, guRRam is horse in telugu. So, it is kudiraikku guRRam enRAl, yAnaikku aRRamA?

Govindan,
Correct me if I am wrong...

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 27 Jul 2007, 04:04

arasi wrote:By the way, guRRam is horse in telugu. So, it is kudiraikku guRRam enRAl, yAnaikku aRRamA?

yanaikku yeRRam!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jul 2007, 04:18

Any addition to the review of NSG's concert by other forumites who attended?

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 27 Jul 2007, 04:45

arasi wrote:mahakavi,
Since you strive for accuracy (I am impressed, of course) and are a scientist, I understand your lack of interest in what a folk woman who happens to have a royal name has to say. However, I am surprised that you would seriously call me an expert (I note it is not in quotes) even though it may be in 'basket weaving' as trivial subjects are called in collegiate vaZhakku' (parlance)

arasi:
cmlover is an expert himself in many areas that we discuss. If you noticed I used the words "other experts" since he wanted to hire you as defense counsel. I will argue to the limit as for the accuracy of certain words to the extent that they are presented in context (as you very well know scientists interpret facts through intense reasoning). However, context can be misleading and if that happens we go back to square one and start all over. I, for one, would not stoop to disregard what a "folk woman" (to use your own terminology) has to say, let alone belittle. My entreaty to cmlover was to retort himself since he is well capable of it. As for expertise even a village farmer will have expertise in certain areas which we townspeople will not have. I will leave it at that.

As for common parlance, what I said about "yAnaikku arram enRAl kudiraikkuk kurram" is what is transacted in the area I grew up. That is what I know without knowing any meaning or the origin.

sraja · Post by **sraja** » 27 Jul 2007, 07:41

well arasi , erode nagarajan has done a comprehensive review--only thing in the list of artists present he has left out Jayalakshmi Santhanam and Akkarai Subhalakshmi. And yes our former reviewer Ram was there. I say "former" with a lot of sadness--it was always great to read his reports--wish he starts writing again.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jul 2007, 08:17

Thank you, sraja for the 'extra' on the concert.
Why do you say 'former'? Ram still writes reviews, I would think! The reviewers on the forum are a group of young, dynamic rasikAs--each different, but they are all as good as they come. Their only problem is finding the time to write reviews, with their punishing work schedules.
Eagerly waiting for Ram's reports and of others from chennai...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jul 2007, 18:33

mahakavi,
I used the term 'folk' in the sense of belonging to common people. So I distanced myself from the scholars...

tharikita · Post by **tharikita** » 29 Jul 2007, 01:16

Sri Nagaraj, Thanks for a great concert review. The vividity reminds me of Brian Johnston's TMS commentary on BBC. Keep 'em coming..

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 30 Jul 2007, 23:36

sraja wrote:well arasi , erode nagarajan has done a comprehensive review--only thing in the list of artists present he has left out Jayalakshmi Santhanam and Akkarai Subhalakshmi.

thank you sraja. i really forgot

to include akkarai and jayalakshmi mami's name. i have edited it.

thank you "tharikita":)

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 31 Jul 2007, 09:40

"yAnaikku arram enRAl kudiraikkuk kurram"

mahakavi,
Sorry to correct you. It is the other way round. 'kudiraiiku gurram enRAl yAnaikku yarram'. 'kudirai' in Telugu is called 'gurram', so the rhyming was applied to 'yAnai' by some tamilinan who wanted to learn Telugu.

PS
arasi,
I missed your post - some of the threads, I normally skim thru.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 31 Jul 2007, 19:56

vgvindan:
I won't dispute the order in which it came. But what we used to say was "Anaikku arram" and "kudiraikkuk kurram".

Your reasoning for the rhyming brings to mind about a Thamizh person trying to learn kannaDa in BengaLUru. He heard people say "hattu. He asked a fellow Thamizh as to what it meant. He said "pattu"(10) in Thamizh. Then he heard "hAlu" and found out it meant "pAlu" (milk). So when he went to a restaurant he asked the waiter to bring "ondu plate hajji" (He wanted one plate bhajji)! The waiter heard it as "hAji". Imagine his confusion!