Sikkil Gurucharan @ Odukathur Mutt - Aug 22, 2007

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 23 Aug 2007, 08:23

This is the song list - i missed first one hour, thanks to work & traffic! Hope someone will update. When i entered Neraval for Seshachala nayakam was on.

The songlist has good variety as always, a good mix of composers, taala & contrasting Raaga.

22 Aug 2007
Sikkil Gurucharan - Vocal
V.V.Ravi - Violin
Umayalpuram Sivaraman - Mridangam
E.M.Subramanyan - Ghatam

(Earlier songs no info)
1. Seshachala Nayakam - Varali - Roopakam - Muthuswami Dikshitar - N,S
(Neraval, swaram at Aravinda Patra Nayanam)

2. Viruttam (Ala Ma marathin Ilai Mel) & pArvai onre Porume - Surati - Aadi - Ottukadu venkata kavi (O)

3. Meenakshi Memudam - Poorvikalyani - Aadi - Muthuswami Dikshitar

4. PranaNathaPaliso - Sudda Saveri - Kanda Chapu - Purandara dasa

5. Thiruvadai Charanam - Kambhodi - Aadi - Gopalakrishna Bharati

Raaga was sung well, Neraval & Swaram at Aduthu Vanda ennai. I was expecting ottukadu composition Kuzhaludi Manamellam, and he sung Thiruvadi charanam. To me, kalapramanam was little fast, and could have been slower for this song to bring out the bhava completely. UKS thani is awsome as always.

There was a lengthy speech, and this time by UKS. He spoke well though.

6. Kalyana Gopalam - Sindhu Bhairavi - Kanda chapu - Narayana Theerthar (O)

7. Tharui Nyan Endu (Padam) - Dwijavanthi - Triputa - Swathi thirunaal

The padam was sung well, and in vilamba kaalam.

8. Eppo Varuvaro - Jhonpuri - Aadi - Gopalakrishna Bharati

9. Thillana - Dhanashri - Aadi - Swathi thirunaal

10. Niraimathi - Hamsanadham - Thirupuzah - Arunagiri nadhar

11. Mangalam

Audio upload at
http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~harihara ... utt-Aug07/

-hari

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 23 Aug 2007, 08:53

Wha did Sri UKS speak about?

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 23 Aug 2007, 08:58

mohan wrote:Wha did Sri UKS speak about?

About Gurucharan and in general. Nothing specific. Please watch this link for uploads

http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~harihara ... utt-Aug07/

-hari

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 23 Aug 2007, 09:01

Thank you hari.

Ala mA marattin ilai mEl oru bAlkanAi is a pASuram by tiruppANAzhvAr. OVK's pArvai onrE pOdumE (pORumE??)

saravanan · Post by **saravanan** » 23 Aug 2007, 17:40

Dear Hari

Can you comment on the concert on the whole?

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 23 Aug 2007, 19:03

It was excellent and well planned and well executed. And very ably supported by veterns like VVRavi, UKS & EMS. Gurucharan is coming up very fast, and in next few years, he should be in prime.

-hari

giridharan · Post by **giridharan** » 23 Aug 2007, 22:32

Gurucharan has to go a long way. His styleof singing is totally immature.

He lacks the enthu which can take him to great heights.His Raga rendition and Kalpana swara delienation are classy example , in which he is totally exposed

His handling of kambodhi was a classic example of the above comments.

A weight RAGA like Kambodhi was not given due weightage.

Height of it, the unwanted speech by Shri umayalpuram Sivaraman.Better let him do the talking thro Mridangam only which he does commendably.It was surprising to hear from sri Umaalpuram sivaraman that sikkil Gurucharan is performing alll the 365 days on stage.

komalangi · Post by **komalangi** » 24 Aug 2007, 04:53

I get the feeling that there is a growing trend of some mridangam players, particularly the senior ones, to try and take centre stage during concerts. What is it that makes them do that? Is it insecurity, perhaps? Is it somehow that they want to explain their position when it comes to playing for musicians far junior to them. Whatever it is, it is a disturbing trend. I hope that I am proven wrong. I am by no means questions their immense abilities and contribution to the field, the approach just seems inappropriate and out of place.

shadjam · Post by **shadjam** » 24 Aug 2007, 06:10

Komalangi,

I don't see anything disturbing in this. In fact, I see a very positive trend that such a senior vidwan like Sri Sivaraman has accepted to accompany an up and coming artist. The only thing that could have been avoided is him talking and taking time away from the concert (which he probably did to encourage Gurucharan). Otherwise, an artist trying dominate another artist on stage is nothing new to carnatic music. IMHO, this is the beauty of carnatic music and this healthy competition is what brings the best out of a musician (vocalist). Semmangudi accompanied by Lalgudi is a classic example of this where Semmangudi takes cue from Lalgudi during alapanas and kalpana swaras and changes his pattern, thus elevating the concert to a different level. (Dinamani Vamsa in the famous Airport concert is an example of this where Lalgudi uses the prayogam Ni Ri (with some gamakam) at the end of a swaram and Semmangudi starts using this prayogam immediately). This also depends on the rapport developed between the artists on and off stage and comes only with time. In such scenarios, the challenge is for the vocalist to come up with something more spectacular to neutralize it. If at all Gurucharan felt that he was dominated (which we would never know), he needs to elevate himself the next time he is accompanied by Sri Sivaraman.

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 24 Aug 2007, 11:13

senior players accompanying junior artistes has happened for quite some time. PMI,PSP and CSM i think have done this. PMI surely for KVN, i am sure. I have seen mention of an MDR PSP combo-so that is fine. now stealing the show,centre stage is something different. in a normal concert, the percussion artiste is supposed to give max thrust to see that the overall effect is elevated ( i could be wrong). I am sure if that is the idea in mind, such senior - junior combo is fine. the playing style of seniors can sometimes be a bit forceful, but then unless it is a pain to the listener - i think this is something like say " a new test cap, facing Warne" . he has now come into the BIG Boy league, now stand up and show your merits. learn, of course a few swings/misses are bound to be there. but here it could be slightly different in the sense, that till he gets used to the pitch - someone senior guides him. it should be that way actually speaking.

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 24 Aug 2007, 12:16

Kutcheri speeches eating away concert time are not too good. Organizers frequently do this, but nowadays senior artistes and sometimes even artistes who are performing on stage do it. What is there to talk every time? Beats me.
Sathej

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 24 Aug 2007, 14:19

=D, probably taking a break !

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 24 Aug 2007, 23:33

komalangi wrote:I get the feeling that there is a growing trend of some mridangam players, particularly the senior ones, to try and take centre stage during concerts.

giridharan wrote:Height of it, the unwanted speech by Shri umayalpuram Sivaraman.Better let him do the talking thro Mridangam only which he does commendably.It was surprising to hear from sri Umaalpuram sivaraman that sikkil Gurucharan is performing alll the 365 days on stage.

Dear Giridharan and Komalangi,

UKS sir performs every year in concerts arranged by Ramesh Swamy. The organisers request sir to say a few words about the concert and the artistes.

Legends like shri sir, speak in such occasions about the concert and performers to encourage them and not just to dominate.

It might have been an "unwanted speech" or even any raga or krithi or a person sitting nearby may also have been "unwanted" for you. Since, art is nothing but expressing one's self, let them talk and share their feelings. Such speeches not only get recognition to youngsters but also remind us our responsibilities.

A week ago, I played a recording with Sangeetha Kalanidhi Shri M.Chandhrasekaran and when he said "kai romba nannaa irukku, nagaraja...." [Nagaraj, your playing and nadham is good (again an idiom!)], I felt honoured and also thought of keeping it up.

When maestros like them say something that too, in a concert where lot of vidwans and rasikas have assembled it carries more value.

It doesn't sound good to say that senior mrudangam artistes try to take centre stage and all that. In fact, it is a sthAnam which is already there and there is no need for them to claim or convey that they are there, by way of speech or any other cheap publicity.

Performing all the 365days is an idiom in thamizh to say one has lot of concerts. Don't try to give any literal translation as it would sound comical if one takes the actual meaning of "kicked the bucket" or "beating the bush"[one can claim democratic, if wants a literal translation of this!]....

erode nagaraj.

shadjam · Post by **shadjam** » 25 Aug 2007, 00:45

Nagaraj sir,

I differ with you on this issue. First of all, concerts are meant for delivering music not any speeches. This is what (and why) the rasikas pay (may not be in this case) and attend the concerts for. Concert stage is not meant for the artists to praise one another and it must be left to the rasikas to come and praise them after the concert. Most concerts already have the customary annoying speeches from the organizers (which even last for about 20-30 minutes). I think it is the responsibility of the artists to realize this and minimize the time they spend on speeches. However, these types of appreciations can be short with a sabash or even the way MC sir appreciated you. (you must be really talented to elicit such a praise from such as great master. Keep it up!!) Even in the TM Krishnaâ€™s Odukathur concert thread, a rasika was lamenting that the concert duration was effectively reduced to 1 hour 50 minutes from 3 hours (you will regret on knowing that the rasika also included the thani in the junk time

).

As far as the 365 day thing, from what I understand, Giridharan was probably surprised by the number of concerts Gurucharan is getting despite his average concert performance (which is Giridharanâ€™s personal evaluation of Gurucharan). Gurucharan is getting excessive praise from Sivaraman sir probably because he is from the famed Sikkil family. I am not sure if Sivaraman sir would do this for each and every artist he accompanies. Certainly there are umpteen number of artists who deserve such (or even better) praises.

komalangi · Post by **komalangi** » 25 Aug 2007, 04:12

My understanding is that, irrespective of stature or seniority, the role of the mridangam player is not different from the violinist in that they are accompanists to the main artist, who is ultimately responsible for the concert. yes, it requires teamwork and coordination but the concert is being given by the main artist, accompanied by the supporting artists. When a senior accepts to play for a so called junior artist, the intent is to play that supporting, accompanying role as I understand it and the so called junior artist takes on the role of the main artist. This is where I think lies in the problem.

It is very rare that you see a violin artist give speeches, keep in mind you do have senior violinists accompanying junior artists as well. Why is it any different for mridangam players. I have been told or have witnessed artists no less than Sri Sivaraman, Sri Sankaran, Sri Raja Rao, Sri Easwaran and now Sri Mani take a fancy for the mike in their hands. I will obviously not get into the duration of tanis of some these artists this time (maybe another topic for another day). The other thing I have noticed is that anytime some positive criticism is provided on mridangam artists, the mridangam fraternity gets all emotional about it as well. Once again, I have the highest regard for their artistry and their contribution to music, it is this unwanted and unnecessary distraction which seems to be a growing trend that bothers me.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 25 Aug 2007, 06:59

The topic of speeches in concerts is a non-merry go round on the forum. How many times have we discussed it! Nothing changes, except another set of rasikAs start it again, just as vexed as the previous group. Speakers take to the podium and microphone in hand, they take away a good chunk of the allotted time of the concert. I don't think musicians are driven to give speeches. They would rather spend the concert hours displaying their art. Is it the organizers who ask them:
'nINgaLum reNDu vArtai SollungO' (Grace us with a few words)?
It is definitely NOT the audience who ask them to speak!
And undoubtedly, those are not A FEW words

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 25 Aug 2007, 13:24

shadjam wrote:Even in the TM Krishna’s Odukathur concert thread, a rasika was lamenting that the concert duration was effectively reduced to 1 hour 50 minutes from 3 hours (you will regret on knowing that the rasika also included the thani in the junk time ).

As far as the 365 day thing, from what I understand, Giridharan was probably surprised by the number of concerts Gurucharan is getting despite his average concert performance (which is Giridharan’s personal evaluation of Gurucharan). Gurucharan is getting excessive praise from Sivaraman sir probably because he is from the famed Sikkil family. I am not sure if Sivaraman sir would do this for each and every artist he accompanies. Certainly there are umpteen number of artists who deserve such (or even better) praises.

dear shadjam [sir] and komalangi,

Thank you for your reply

.

I think, we don't have to regret for such a rasika who includes a thani in junk.... may be that rasika is a junk for music.... once, a grand father of a mrudangam artiste told me that he leaves the auditorium to smoke, whenever shri mani iyer plays a thani ! I can only sympathise for him and in fact, i prayed for him too...

Uks sir's speech about gurucharan is not because he is from a family of music. He talked about tns, nsg, ost, ravi kiran, akkarai subhalakshmi, master balamurali, sundhara kumar, b.s.purushothaman and many in various occassions.

Why mrudangam players react... is a good question and i am happy that we take part and interact with knowledgeable rasikas...

We record our views, only because, we feel it really as a positive criticism..... If it would have been otherwise, we shall simply ignore it...

Only if we interact and discuss we can understand each other... i always believe, "if we are not part of the solution, then we are the problem..."

erode nagaraj.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 25 Aug 2007, 14:37

I think most rasikas would like to see and hear the human side of many prominent artistes - So I don't think rasikas really mind if prominent artistes are asked to speak.
Jaya TV's Margazhi Mahotsavam has a rasika interaction session and it has been great to watch some of the musicians express themselves candidly - esp. when it is without the intention to score "brownie points" from the general public.

It is when the organizers or sponsors or their honored guests give long winded boring speeches taking up time eating into the concert duration that people really get fed up.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 25 Aug 2007, 14:45

Within limits some insights/comments can actually be interesting...I guess lengthy monologues or reminiscneces can be a pain. However I can't think of any concert where an artiste spoke to the point of being irritating - the culprits are organizers in most cases.

PBI · Post by **PBI** » 25 Aug 2007, 15:26

When a concert happens..............there r so many young students of music who are eagerly lending their ears to it!!A great Vidwan like UKS sir accompanying is sumthing these youngsters(including ppl like me!!) always look forward to hear. In addition to this, wen such gr8 vidwans speak............we are all da more blessed to be part of it. Wat cums out is deir experience, dat which dey hav followed and dat which we r lucky to learn!!
How often do we get such gr8 stalwarts speaking??

And i dont agree wen Komalangi says :
The other thing I have noticed is that anytime some positive criticism is provided on mridangam artists, the mridangam fraternity gets all emotional about it as well.

Its bcoz, wat u call positive criticism may not be positive always for everybody.
As an artist / rather a mridangam artist, we are always...........in a state where we try to learn, implement and improvise from great gurus themselves. So when dey speak sumthing it is usually for da gud.Wat dey voice during concerts is always rare from wen we are wid dem.

Now, rasikas cum for listening to music, and no doubt, dey want only music at dat time and not speeches. But imagine, there r budding/performing artists also in da audience alongwid rasikas. For dem, such speeches wud do a lot of gud, and in da future, may be wen dey r da artists performing, dey can provide more rasam thru classical music for da rasikas to enjoy.............
i agree very well with Vijay.......

Wat i want to say here is dat, da senior artists do not try n take centre stage simply. Most probably it is da organisers who urge dem to speak and it only does gud wen dey speak out!!

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 25 Aug 2007, 16:17

pbi
I hope you want people to read what you write!

padma.venkata · Post by **padma.venkata** » 25 Aug 2007, 19:28

22 Aug 2007
Sikkil Gurucharan - Vocal
V.V.Ravi - Violin
Umayalpuram Sivaraman - Mridangam
E.M.Subramanyan - Ghatam

I completely agree with erode nagaraj sir.

First of all, a concert is said to be complete or full in terms of performance only in the presence of Pakka vadyam, in this case I would call it as Pakkaa (Perfect) Vadyam.

If a concert is successful, then the credit goes to every person on the stage. Every person on the stage is important; here by writing every one I mean the pakka vadyam also.

People donâ€™t have to take center stage to grab attention. Every person has his importance defined. They are on the stage, which itself shows the level of talent they have.
With maestros like Sri Umayalpuram Sivaraman, I really donâ€™t understand what bugs rasikas/Others if he takes some time to actually talk and elaborate about the main artist. Well, I feel the concert has to be made interesting in this way by involving something like this in between.
Talking about this concert, Sri Umayalpuram Sivaraman is a very senior artist; Sri Sikki C GuruCharan is an upcoming artist (Person on a quick Ramp up scale or graph) and would surely be interested in saying a few good words about the performer/performance etc and bless him.

Every concert is a different experience in itself and whatâ€™s wrong in expressing the same in front of rasikas? This infact will surely be a value add ...rather an immediate feed back to the performer.

Well, finally i would like to say one thing. Its a stage to reveal the talent as a group. They work together to make it a big success. With out true dedication, cooperation and mutual understanding between the artists, a concert can never be successful/ made enjoyable.

Best Regards
Padma Venkata

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 25 Aug 2007, 20:39

We are talking about two things at the same time here: lengthy speeches in a concert and valuable words from great vidwans. The latter will be appreciated by rasikAS but as separate happenings. We need to be informed that it is a concert-demonstration. Sometime ago in Bangalore, Dr. Srivatsa and Carnatic Brothers Shashi Kiran and Ganesh gave a concert-demo on ShyamA SAstri and it was an event worth attending AND it was publicized as such.
Greats like UKS speaking on his craft is a valuable thing. We love to listen to vidwAns like him anywhere. In this case, there were those who came to the concert with no idea about the speech. They would have been pleasantly surprised to have had a lesson from a veteran, no doubt. What about other speeches (organizers, patrons and so on)?
Then the timing. If such customary speeches are (short ones, please!) are given at the end of the concert just BEFORE the mangaLam, those who want to catch that last bus, find an auto will bless the organizers (in place of their interrupting the flow of the concert much earlier in the concert as they sometimes do).
Yes, we should have more vidwans educating us. That's why organizers should ask them to give a lecture too for the enthusiasts while they are in town. How frustrating it must have been for the rasikAs who would have loved it for the vidwan to speak without the concert being in his way!

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 25 Aug 2007, 20:49

If the Vidwan/Vidushi is really speaking on educating the Rasikas on technical issues, then he/she is really welcome to do so. But, if it is going to be reminiscence or mutual praise, that can be done on a different platform, not midway during a kutcheri. And if a senior Vidwan wishes to praise a junior artiste, he can always do so shortly, not necessarily through a full fledged speech. Non-technical interludes which do not go to actually 'explain' a particular point may well be avoided. And komalangi is right in saying that the main artiste is ultimately the vocalist. And he should be given maximum time to showcase his capabilities.
Sathej

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 25 Aug 2007, 22:42

Having heard a lot of concerts , here are my cribs

1A. Speeches must be generally good especially with an expressive personality like UKS or late SVK . Whether the speech is technical or anecdotal or nontechnical does not matter here?

1B. On the contrary I heard few speeches of artist (let him/her be unnamed) and Indian Fine Arts seceretary Shri SrinivAsan which is so damn boring?

So to me who speeks is irrelevant ,what they speak is only relevant which can be entirely subjective to each of us at that time.Unless they speak we would not know if it is good or bad.So give it to speakers , let rasikas and artists have patience for both types (remember there is a chance 1A can be boring, 1B can be interesting).

THe key thing is the main artists should not take the tea break time (speech time) and cut short the concert. SO artists should commit to absolute time of the concert (exclusive of the speech) , that is professionlism to me. Towards this I always see the perfect role model to follow is mAhavidwan Shri TN SeshagOpalan who always sings in absolute time , he does not mind stretching it more irrespective of whether the audience have to catch the last bus or see the soap serial at 9pm . Let all artists take that professionalism aspect of Shri TNS, which I unfortunately find most of them most of the time not doing it.

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 26 Aug 2007, 06:52

Hi Some one mentioned that PMI encouraged KVN in his earlier days by accompanying him Similarly UKS is encouraging the younger artist of today by speaking about them. There is nothing wrong about this but to compare these artist with KVN when he started his career is ridiculous. The gurukulavasam that he underwent with his guru and the length of time spent before he was allowed to sing on the stage is what made him so special from the time he started his career The same cannot be said about the present generation of artist and his initial training and grounding by great masters like Ariakudi, Mani Iyer and Papa enabled him to give uniformly excellent fare till his death. I believe that no concert of his has ever failed because of this. The same cannot be said of the present generation. Off and on a very many concerts of theirs are not up to their level of excellence they are capable of giving. Comparisons to the past masters has become unnecessary and unwanted. All that is expected of these artist is to give a good fare to soothe the audience rather then make them figity. BFN Raghavan

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Aug 2007, 09:38

Round and round we go again, 'speaking' of speeches!

When vidwAns and vidUshis speak, we are happy that we can get a glimpse into their experiences in music as musicians. It is also exciting to hear a veteran speak highly of a youngster--but for how long? Just a couple of lines from a super artiste is all that is needed, especially when this happens during a concert.

The OTHER kind of speakers: the organizers, sponsors and others. They often say things about each other which has nothing to do with music or the present company on stage. Example: I think it was in the year ....we used to live on such and such a street. We played cricket in the .....Park every single day. His mother used to make the best vadAs which I remember to this day--and on it goes. When they finally come to the musicians, five minutes are spent in saying things which we already know , have read the same in that brochure which we have in our hands. When the man finishes, there is one more speaker, another one. Well, we cannot do away with speeches--agreed. Could we atleast have shorter speeches, please? Long speeches on the musicians are like an endless discourse on how a particularly delicious dish is made. We would rather savor the dish than go through the recipe...

PBI · Post by **PBI** » 26 Aug 2007, 20:42

vgvindan wrote:pbi
I hope you want people to read what you write!

Mr.Govindan, if u feel i have written in a very modern internet english and cant read it..................i am sorry for dat................i'll try to write it in rightly spelt english the next time!!

Or if there is any other reason, do say!!

And I totally agree with Erode Nagaraj sir and Padma Venkata

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Aug 2007, 21:09

if u feel i have written in a very modern internet english and cant read it..................i am sorry for dat................i'll try to write it in rightly spelt english the next time!!

Yes PBI, that wil be good, that way it is easy on the eyes and brain. With 'dis 'n dat' it is really hard to tell if the writer is very masterful with the language or the writer just does not know how to write properly.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 27 Aug 2007, 09:58

arasi wrote:Long speeches on the musicians are like an endless discourse on how a particularly delicious dish is made. We would rather savor the dish than go through the recipe...

I wish we could do that atleast in our rasikas.org concerts.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 27 Aug 2007, 11:41

Dear Giridharan and others,

Sikkil Gurucharan is an emerging artist. He has become popular because of his skills and also the family connections to CM. I have listened to him in my chennai visit at the last music season at Narada Gana sabha and Music academy and then in Blore Gayana samaj and in ISS at Indra nagar. My overall impression is that he has got a style and good knowledge at this young age. His concert planning and songs are one of the best I have seen. I am sure he will be successfull. I felt he improved on his swarams and neraval in the last one year and trying to reach higher levels. I liked all his renditions on that day starting from the varali piece.

saravanan · Post by **saravanan** » 29 Aug 2007, 11:33

Is Giridharan a competetor of Gurucharan or did UKS sir refuse to play for him in the past or is he a disgruntled singer who dint get chance to sing 365 days?

shadjam · Post by **shadjam** » 29 Aug 2007, 18:25

Saravanan,

Do you mean to say all music critics are competitors and disgruntled? Wow!! what a fine logic. It makes a lot of sense to me

sathsangeethapriyan · Post by **sathsangeethapriyan** » 30 Aug 2007, 10:10

By the way the discussions taking directions, we can only imagine how much inconsequential the concert had gone for everybody (including UKS). I am not belittling Gurucharan nor UKS. I wish the former a bright future and many more years of enviable power and style for the latter. I could not attend the concerts of both TMK and SGC marked by speeches by senior Mridangam vidwans, but got first hand information of what happened. In TMK's concert Karaikudi Mani was not too inclined to deliver an address! He has even said it is out of context when the musician is expected only to perform. It is TRUE that mridangam vidwans like UKS, RARAJA RAO and BAKTHAVATSALAM assuming the role of
"introducing","encouraging", "guiding", "getting recognition" and "blessing" the center performer and even the violinist and ghatam/kanjira vidwans sometimes (even those with decades of experience!) Turning the concerts to a 'homely event' they crack a joke here and there and initiate a laughter. Much to the embrassment of the other artistes on the stage they also pass loaded sarcastic opinions on others to highlight their "uniqueness". I feel all these come out partly because of superiority complex and partly due to insecurity. There are many many concerts these so called care takers spoil by being moody, over reacting, unrelentingly noisy and inappropriate accompaniment (overdoing in places of subtlety). Where does go their responsibility. These are the mridangam artistes who get annoyed too easily never to cool down.
Erode Nagarajan has a right to defend his guru but please let him not except others to be blind and deaf. I am not biased but after frequent experiences especially all over Karnataka for the pass four decades vent my opinion on glorified mridangam artistes.
Please do not compare these above with witty comments of greats like semmangudi, Chembai, Ariyakudi and Viswanatha Iyer or MDR! Those have not come out of pride and selfishness but sheer spontaneity.

kaushik_v · Post by **kaushik_v** » 01 Sep 2007, 09:31

komalangi wrote:I get the feeling that there is a growing trend of some mridangam players, particularly the senior ones, to try and take centre stage during concerts. What is it that makes them do that? Is it insecurity, perhaps? Is it somehow that they want to explain their position when it comes to playing for musicians far junior to them. Whatever it is, it is a disturbing trend. I hope that I am proven wrong. .

Insecurity!!! Are you trying to say people who have been in this field for more than 50 years have this so called “Insecurity”. Or is it that you have voiced your opinion out of insecurity that you would be missed out in this discussion.
Maybe let me put it in a language which you might understand – Well if you are by chance acting in a film with kamala Hassan and by chance you act well and he praises your acting skills. Now would you call kamal as being insecure!! Well if someone else who sees this happening and says kamal is being Insecure, would you not rubbish that statement?
hope you understand.
Being praised by sir is actally an honor for Gurucharan.
I am happy you have at least written, “If you can be proven wrong” this goes to show that you have written those lines without having put in a little bit of thinking

rasika_cm · Post by **rasika_cm** » 01 Sep 2007, 11:02

I have seen this posting and a couple of more threads on domination by accompanists etc. I think it is only fair to take a holisitic view of the issue rather than react in parts and attack artistes.Here's my take after having been close to this field for several years now. I am neither biased with UKS, Raghu, KM, Raja Rao or any other mridangist as I don't belong to any of these schools but a rasika.

Domination by Vocalists

Semmangudi Era

There is a mention in one of the posts of greats like Semmangudi etc. and not to take their comments seriously. I have great respect for the man but we can't afford to look at the problem halfway. The problem really started over 5-6 decades back when Semmangudi used to do this kind domination to put down PMI. He was the most insecure of all the senior vocalists. I believe he used to tell accompanying mridangists incl. the greats like UKS, Raghu( who were young then) etc.- "Addakki Vasiappa"/ "Saravalguva Vasippa"/ " Mathalam naa vasikera(He compared it with Tavil while mridangam is a tonal instrument. It was a sarcastic comment!) and only when Semmangudi shows some signs( It's an eye contact between Semmangudi- Mridangist) will somebody like UKS shows his true self as a accompanist just taking the concert and song to some other level.

PMI obviously was too great and famous by then. He then started accompanying other artistes where he will get the freedom to show his skills. During the last decade before his demise he started accompanying others and crowds used to go to watch PMI in action.

The word Sarvalagu accompaniment, in my opinion, the most misunderstood word in the CM world was coined and mastered during this period. It's like two rails going in parallel and there is no emotion and ahaa in the accompaniment. Only chaste CM listeners know this. That's why UKS, Raghu are great accompanists.

Post Semmangudi Era ( & Party era)

The other vocalists picked-up the thread and started saying - " Evan vasiticha enna" and that became the death knell for CM. By then Semmangudi had attained the stature of pithmaha/Kingmaker and therefore everybody started this wrong practice. There is a saying in sanskrit - "yetha raja, ththa praja!".

You saw very few great combinations on stage which CM grew with over the 40s-50s-60s. Vocalists without stature and younger lot(incl. female vocalists)started doing this and accompanists( mind you - it includes violinsts) became pawns and got treated that way. This was the era of & party era. The vocalist is the most important person on the platform and nobody cared who accompanied.

By then UKS, Raghu, KM, Raja Rao, Bhakta had their own stature and they needed a platform to showcase their potential. I don't see anything wrong there. Otherwise how do they survive?

Domination by Violinsts

There was mention that Violints don't do this. I have a reason for this. They had their own solo programs. Lalgudi, Dwaram, TNK, MSG had their own solo concerts. In fact the greatest violin solo model was perfected by Lalgudi and UKS was the accompanist then and then Ramabadran & KM took over. So, Violinsts always had a platform and so they did behave the same way. Incidentally, TNK, Lalgudi, MC never accompanied youngsters, they have stayed away from this!! I don't know if members of this form have caught this trend.

Domination by Mridangists

There's a mention of KM and his view of speaking in concerts recently, etc. I would regard KM as the pioneer of getting attention, preparing the ground of domination for the mridangists of this era as he started Sruthilaya concerts and albums!! Even UKS, Raghu did not start this trend as they were still stuck in the old world model of accompaniment. Being old hands, they only knew the PMI way of domination which accompanying younger artistes and showing their talent. So, any mention of 'holier than thou' mention of KM is not right. He is a smart musician and I think it is a great strategy.

For an upcoming mridangist, the world of CM is cruel. He can neither showcase his talent as an accompanist in a concert nor can he/she play solos!! The vocalists dominate and you have to be subservient to even get concerts! Does anybody realise this? Ask an upcoming mridangist, he/she will tell you the story.

So, to summarize, I don't see anything wrong in this trend as nobody is right incl. the vocalists who keep raising this issue, mridangists like UKS, Raghu, KM who keep dominating in concerts etc. Each of them have a professional interests to perform, earn, stature to maintain and they need to survive in this politics.

According to me this is a useless discussion as there is no insecurity with any of these artistes like UKS, KM, Raja Rao, Bhakta etc. or the vocalists too. This problem is so deep into CM today, it's roots go back to every artiste who is in it.

But, let's enjoy the music they give us and forget the rest!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 01 Sep 2007, 11:28

Srimushnam Raja Rao once aired his objection to the concept of "main artiste" versus "support artistes" - I largely agree except to say that since the concert is usually sold on the strength of the person sitting in the centre, he/she is some kind of a "first among equals". Of course when someone like UKS accompanies Gurucharan, the roles get reversed to a certain extent. So UKS would be the centre of attraction rather than Gurucharan. I don't find anything wrong in this. Nor, I suspect, would Gurucharan himself.

In any case I don't see why a senior artist saying some good words about an up and coming youngster really warrants so much speculation!

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 01 Sep 2007, 11:29

interesting :rolleyes

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Sep 2007, 12:32

In any case I don't see why a senior artist saying some good words about an up and coming youngster really warrants so much speculation!

Right on, Vijay.

anandabhairavi · Post by **anandabhairavi** » 01 Sep 2007, 14:17

Rasika sir i agree with you.I have heard even the current no 1 female singer who asks her pakka vadyam to "adakki vasikka" in all concerts!!! Practice is continuing even today.

so lets forgive and forget them

mahesh_narayan · Post by **mahesh_narayan** » 01 Sep 2007, 14:59

rasika_cm:
The fact that Raghu Sir and UKS Sir accompany youngsters is construed by someone like me as encouragement and catholicity rather than domination. Is there a reason why you feel what you feel? Raghu Sir, for example, continues to accompany veterans like Nedunuri Sir, RKS Sir, OST Sir, TVS Sir, while also accompanying TMK, Vijay Siva, U shrinivas, Lalgudi siblings, or (in this coming season) Malladi brothers. That is a wide spectrum. And as far as I have seen and heard, he has commanded the respect of each one of them (I have personally witnessed Nedunuri Sir praise his vidwat on more than one occasion). In fact, as compared to many contemporary vocal, violin and mridangam artistes, I personally feel he never has been given his due focus and acknowledgement.

Therefore I would like to know why you think him and UKS Sir would accompany youngsters with domination in mind. Is there really a necessity for them to assert themselves at this stage in their career?.

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 01 Sep 2007, 21:12

Hi I refer to mahesh_narayans post. In the arangetram concert of Anand Grandson of Shri Palghat Raghu accompanying Prof T.N.Krishnan ,T.N.K. observed that after five decades of performing on stage he and Raghu had reached the top and that the present day artists were fortunate in getting exposure thru the media and the huge opportunities of performing platforms and make it to the top without the struggle they underwent.. The essence of what he said was during their days their performance and word by mouth publicity was the only means by which their talent could be showcased. And these stalwart have nothing to prove or dominate the proceedings on the stage while accompanying the current generation of musicians BFn Ragjay

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Sep 2007, 22:25

It is always nice to see veterans accompanying youngsters. The very act shows encouragement to the vocalist from elders, and to us, the lack of ego in them which would only allow them to accompany seasoned performers. A few words of encouragement makes it even better (for the young performer and for the audience). As I said before, it is the time and place of the speech which raises the question: does it do justice to the vocalist if the given time is eaten away and the he has very little time to prove his talent? That is why I feel organizers should also make use of the veteran's visit to their city in arranging a lecture demonstration the day before or after the concert...

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 03 Sep 2007, 12:13

Hi,

I had a doubt ( I havenot learnt CM but has been a audience for sometime now, so my expr is less).

What I observed in this concert is that during the main piece swara prasthara, UKS played to the violin and made the ghatam guy play to the singer most of it. This is not usually the practise and in fact both play for the vocal and only ghatam play for the violin is the practise. This has reduced the effect of SGC swara delivery . And then after the climax swara, SGC didnot nod for a swara for the violin artist, but UKS signaled the Violin artist to play the swara and there was a duet between UKS and the violinist. Any comments from veterans here.

But UKS overall reduced the "thani" duration in the concert unlike 'thani's of other concerts which were of longer duration. May be in anticipation of a speech

bhaktha · Post by **bhaktha** » 03 Sep 2007, 13:32

As a rasika, I have noticed that in all of Shri UKS's kutcheris, he makes it a point to resverse roles with the upapakkavadhyam, especially during the mel kala swaram and korappu (of the vocalist) for the main item. This has a profound effect on the listeners, where Shri UKS observes the swara pattern of the vocalist and reproduces the same when the violist plays. Also, he always requests the violinist to play the final round of swarams (after the vocalist has finished his final korvai), before he launches into the tani. This has been my obsevation in almost all concerts of Shri UKS. The duet between Shri UKS and the violinist is usually a cracker.
-bhaktha

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 03 Sep 2007, 14:56

bhaktha, i think i noticed a similar thing in concerts with TC and PMI, for MMI.

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 14 Sep 2007, 20:34

yes, it is a tradition.....

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 14 Sep 2007, 20:43

erode14, did not quite get that part on tradition?

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 14 Sep 2007, 21:11

the mrudangam artistes playing for violin for some time and also the violinist playing a seperate round after the vocalist finishes his swara prastharam are traditional only.... i have listened to many tapes too...