Amplification at sabhas

rnswamy · Post by **rnswamy** » 19 Dec 2007, 17:00

I cannot understand why vidwans including accompanists want the amplification to be increased more and more during concerts. The net result is just unbearable noise and no music . Just "rakalai" by the vocalist, violinist and mridangist. On the other hand, when they sing on the radio they are able to deliver pleasing music because they cannot dictate to the AUIR staff. The difference can be seen if one had attended a concert which was also recorded by AIR and broadcast later. I had a chance to listen to Maharajapuram Srinivasan at Nalinakanti last week. The noise level was, to put it mildly, terrible. I regretted having gone to listen to it. The same concert was broadcast by AIR this morning, and what a different experience it was! The bad opinion I had formed of the artist was erased. I hope vidwans will leave it to the organizers and audience to decide how much amplification is suitable for the concert and not interfere with the set up.

shankarabharanam · Post by **shankarabharanam** » 19 Dec 2007, 20:02

Sir, I understand your problem as a listener. But to be very honest the sabha authorities have a poor knowledge when it comes to acoustics. The artist completely depends on feedback. On most occassions they don't get a feedback and hence they ask to raise the volume. The engineer(so called) sitting in the auditorium incrases the volume of the speakers meant for the audience. They really don't understand the whole process. Unfortunately in chennai most of the sabhas don't have their own acoustics. Thus, the artists are not at fault its the sabha authorities. It's better if you raise your opinion while the concert is on and let the artist know about the problem.

tkb · Post by **tkb** » 19 Dec 2007, 21:24

I agree to Shankarabaranam to a greater extent. I think artists in general should start doing a sound check on the monitors meant for the stage before opening the curtains. If this is done then there would not be complaints from the artists reg the volume. In this case the person handling the PA system can adjust the volume for the audience accordingly in the speakers meant for. But the sad part is many of the auditoriums does not have separate controls for the monitors and the speakers meant for audience. I am sure in the days to come this will be sorted out.

TKB

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 19 Dec 2007, 22:31

This is also one of the reasons many artistes like KJ Yesudoss, Sudha, Priya Sisters, Unnikrishnan and a few others use their own mike system in almost all their concerts. Some of the mikes gobble all the sound that you wont listen what you are actually playing. Moreover some of the main artistes keep the Volume of the Electronic Tambura (said in good intention only as i also sincerely understand their problem of not listening to the sruti properly) very high thereby making it difficult for the accompanying artistes. The matter gets complicated in the hands of poor mike person. dont know where to pinpoint but i hv personally felt that a proper feedback for the artistes surely enhances the performance of the artiste and i think two amplifiers one for the artistes and one for the auditorium could also solve the problem. Can be kept at desired levels for both the artistes as well as the audience. Moreover in music season where many artistes play a lots of concerts (especially accompanists) it will be too tiring and hence many of us prefer better volume on stage so that we dont need to exert too much in front of the mike.

J.Balaji

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 19 Dec 2007, 22:46

That was an interesting perspective from balaji sir. I think sabhas would do well to spend a little more time and money on improving this aspect. Perhaps there should be a conference on acoustics in CM!

RaviVeda · Post by **RaviVeda** » 19 Dec 2007, 22:53

Music Academy upgrades to the Bose state-of-the-art sound system.

http://www.hindu.com/ms/2007/12/18/stor ... 010100.htm

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 20 Dec 2007, 00:11

I spent a very good evening at PS Higher Secondary School (Kartik Fine Arts) concert of Ravikiran this evening. Partly this was due to good sound, with good balance.

It is noticeable and much appreciated that Ravikaran, after the first piece, asked the audience, "how is the sound balance?" . How great to see a senior musician with the humility and common sense to ask the experts in listening how they are hearing the experts in playing. I really appreciate this.

The artists cannot be entirely absolved of blame. They are professionals and we are paying to listen to them. If we are unable to hear the music then the entire purpose of the concert is lost.

Good microphones, amplifiers, mixers, speakers, are a very big expense; some small organisations must do the best with what they have --- but they must recognise that the priority is that the audience hear and enjoy the music.

We go to listen to what are almost exclusively acoustic instruments. We do not go to listen to a rock band.

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 20 Dec 2007, 12:29

Though I agree partially with what Mr.Nick about paying and listening and also that the audience are the priority yet i have this to say that the priority cannot be given at the loss of comfort levels of the artistes. Moreover audience come to listen to a good concert and the artiste is there to provide his best. It is very difficult to defne the comfort level and also differs from artiste to artiste. Unless the artiste performing on stage is comfortable from many points chiefly with acoustics whatever said about the audience will go down the drain. In a small hall it is ok to hv lesser volume .. whereas in a big hall with sounds reverbrating it will difficult for the artiste to gauge what the audience is hearing and how is their comfort levels. All said and done generally I leave it to the mikemen rarely do i request for increase in volume. Mostly i request for adjustment of Bass and treble for the left and right sides to achieve balance. I go by the general volume in the stage and also sometimes i play as if i play without the mike and those concerts have come out very well. About sound checks etc it is difficult in music season where we have back-to-back concerts. this can be tried out in normal concert days. I have to admit that some of the sabhas take special care of the artistes and their comfort levels for eg. Music Academy, Bharathiya Vidya Bhavan, Mylapore Fine Arts, Rama Bhakta Jana Sabha and others. We have also to bear in mind that the equipments are standardised (and almost all the places we get to see same type of amplifiers and mixers) and the Halls are not standardised. We have padded halls, we have echo halls, AC halls, NON-AC Halls, small halls, medium halls, Big halls etc etc. The equipments should match natural acoustics of the Hall, till then we are bound to have confusions and discussions. (Like the famous crack-jack argument "sweet or sour", this argument will also be endless).

J.Balaji

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 20 Dec 2007, 13:44

It is a perennial, and a very hardy one. This topic was under hot discussion even back in the days of Usenet group Rec.Music.Indian.Classical. I truly and earnestly look forward to the day when we no longer need to discuss it!

I notice that some of our comments on hygiene have spilt over (woops... bad choice of words there

) into the newspapers --- it might help if this topic does too (although I think it may have done already), but, really, reviewers should mention if the sound man made their listening harder or easier.

Because reviews fill seats, this just might get through to the organisers.

There are things that the organisers and sound man cannot be blamed for...

--- If a sound check is done earlier in the day, and the musicians then retire for tea, the sound check is rendered entirely useless if they do not sit in the exact same positions when they return. The difference between three inches and six inches means the microphone is getting half the sound level.

--- A sound check done with a vocalist half-heartedly singing a phrase or two gives results that are quite wrong when the same person has warmed up and has an audience to sing to.

The sound man should adjust the levels anyway, because a full hall is very different to an empty one, but often this is not done, because the levels 'approved' by the artists are considered sacred.

--- A communicative artist may spend considerable amounts of time in eye contact with their accompanists. The single directional mic in front of him cannot be expected to cope with this. I note that dual micing with positioning that allows for this is becoming more common.

--- Some artists have noticably bad mic technique, either just ignoring it, and not taking into account the points I've made, or attempting to 'use' it for emphasis. The difference between six inches and three inches doubles the sound input into the mic, and the artist may not hear the result in the hall, but sound systems cannot be expected to cope with this.

I'm sure there's more ---that's all I can think of just now!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 20 Dec 2007, 14:03

Intersting points here. First of all, I don't think there will ever see the day when we will stop discussing it - human preferences being what they are. For example I like to hear the mrudangam/percussion clearly but to many people that's too much amplification.

Also important is that the acoustics tend to change in different parts of the auditorium. In Vani Mahal for instance the rows behind the speakers are unbearable whereas the front rows are quite OK.

Overall the Academy seems to have done a good job this year. KGS, BVB and BGS are other halls where acoustics are satisfactory. However a lot mroe time needs to be spent by all conocerned - at the very least least artistes, sound men and organizers - to meet, understand and discuss the issues. A perfect solution may never be found but an acceptable quality of amplification is perhaps not too mcuh to ask for

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 20 Dec 2007, 15:53

There is so very much to be done to achieve a basic 'good' standard.

When that is done, then people can talk about personal preferences.

--- although, if a person's preference is not to hear any particular instrument then I don't know why they bother concert-going!

shankarabharanam · Post by **shankarabharanam** » 20 Dec 2007, 18:47

I agree with Nick that artist should definately get their mikes checked... But when it comes to season where so many concerts are held on a single day, the artist hardly gets time to adjust. They don't have time at their disposal partly becasue of the previous concert that is happening and they might have only five to ten mins time to adjust.

I would like to narrate an incident that happened at Krishna Gana Sabha last year when Sudha Ragunathan was performing. Usually i don't prefer to sit on stage as the feed back is really bad. This time it was no different. I sat on stage and for nearly 45 mins the artists on stage had no clue where the PA went. He just adjusted in the begining and left the auditorium. We could barely hear anything, since i was sitting close to violinist i could hear him playing but it was a pathetic experience...I remember one rasika from the crowd yelled stating it was too loud...and that there no balance...The irony was few rasikas who had sound technical knowledge adjusted the volume. If the situation is so bad in KGS i can imagine with smaller ones in the city....I think these sabha authorities need to visit cities like Mumbai or some where in US....i am sure they will understand where they stand....

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 21 Dec 2007, 00:25

Sitting on stage gives a good experience of what artists have to put up with. Somehow the sound system seems to make it worse --- if they were all playing in the same room, they'd be able to hear each other, so why not on stage? But it is true. I have sat with an orchestra of 20 young veena players, and only been able to catch snatches of what they were playing!

So far, this year I have had only one poor (not dreadful) experience (YGP) and several good ones --- but I have only been to a small handful of concerts.