Season's summary - The best and the worst

gundakriya · Post by **gundakriya** » 11 Jan 2008, 10:41

Strong letters to the editor in today's Hindu, from Sowmya, TMK & Ghatam Suresh regarding season reviews. Sowmya's is a very pointed response to technical errors made by V Subrahmaniam while TMK has responded to criticism that he didn't sing an RTP. Suresh writes about wanton mudslinging at senior artistes like KRM. It is great to have artistes' perspective on issues where critics and rasikas shoot their mouth off, knowing only one side of the story.

Wanted to post the link, but I couldn't find the letters in the online version of the paper

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 11 Jan 2008, 11:02

Agree - for once the Hindu has got it right...it certainly gives an opportunity for artistes to get their point of view across, makes the process more fair and is likely to keep critics on their toes. That is how it should be.

However, I am sure many more artistes would want to make a point or two regarding their concerts than the present space allows. It would be great if they dedicate a whole page to artiste responses - not only would it make criticsm more balanced, it would also be much more interesting to read!

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 11 Jan 2008, 11:10

gundakriya wrote:Strong letters to the editor in today's Hindu, from Sowmya, TMK & Ghatam Suresh regarding season reviews. Sowmya's is a very pointed response to technical errors made by V Subrahmaniam while TMK has responded to criticism that he didn't sing an RTP. Suresh writes about wanton mudslinging at senior artistes like KRM. It is great to have artistes' perspective on issues where critics and rasikas shoot their mouth off, knowing only one side of the story.

Wanted to post the link, but I couldn't find the letters in the online version of the paper

For the sake of Non Chennai Residents , could some kind rasika take the trouble of scanning and attaching the letters of Sowmya, TMK and Suresh

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 11 Jan 2008, 11:21

In today's Friday review , the artists have hit back against the reviewers of The Hindu. There are strong letters from TMK and V Suresh about the comments made by the reviewer against KM ( MA concert of TMK) and by Sowmya about the technical aspects of the review.

mahesh_narayan · Post by **mahesh_narayan** » 11 Jan 2008, 15:04

Hi,
I could not find the comments from TMK or Sowmya here: -
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... enindx.htm

Is this the right link?

shankarabharanam · Post by **shankarabharanam** » 11 Jan 2008, 21:03

RTP not scheduled
This is a response to the letter from Mr. Ramaswamy iyer dropping the Ragam, Tanam, Pallvi from the Music Academy(Music Season, January 4). Before coming to their own conclusions based on their perceptions, rasikas should realise that a lot happened behind the stage to which they are not privy. In this cae I had decide long before the concert that I was not going to sinf Ragam Tanam Pallavi. I had also informed Mysore Manjunath, Guru Karaikudi Mani and V Suresh. All of us on stage planned the concert with this in mind. I know the song list I gave the Academy mentioned a RTP but artists do change their minds and I did.

The reason was that if one is to justice to a monumental kriti like Mari Mari Nine(Kambodhi), the apprpriate alapana, niraval and swaras have to be adorned. Taking this into consideration it is impossible to sing a Pallavi in a two and half cocnert format while presenting this opus of a kriti.

The kriti itself is huge (approx 35) which cascade wonderfully with a dynamic build up. Discerning rasikas would know that the content and build up of such a kriti is as great as the most comkplicated Ragam, Tanam, Pallavi. There was absolutely no question of me singing a Pallavi that day. If rasikas have some doubts about concerts they are most welcome to come and talk to us after the concert or even email us before coming to their own conclusions.- TM Krishna

it is very saddening that with fallacious information, comments are allowed to be passed on towering personalities such as Karaikudi Mani. It is the singer in this case TM Krishnam, for not including an RTP in the list which was sent weeks to the Music Academy.

Besides, whatever be your level of disappointment a singer has the preorgative of deiciding his choice of songs. Right from the days of Ariyakudi and Semmangudi, Karaikudi Mnai has been hailed as a prodgous Mridangist, an honour he upholds till date. There was a big audience waiting to listen to him. He was playing at the Music Academy after almost 15 years. in fact we had decided earlier as to what be the proportion of the pieces including that of the thani. It is immature to call legendary musician 'irresponsible' after witnessing the spontaneous response of extol for the enlightening thani and the enbelllishment of the entire concert. The comment 'would you dare had it been Ariyakudi or Semmangudi' belittles those great msucians so far, in their times Palghat Mani Iyer and Palani Subramanya Pillai had greater respect and sovereighnty both on and off stage-Ghatam V Suresh.

Standard Phrases
this has refernce to the review of my concert at the Music Academy (Music Season, January 1). While I do not dispute the reviewer's right to make the subjective opinions aboutmy music, there are certain factual errors and inconsistencies that I'd liekt o repudiate in the interest of rasikas and music students who peruse these columns.

The reviewer syas the phrasing 'ri ga ma ri sa' is indicative of Poorna Chandrika, a very close ragam. In Janaranjani this should be eschewed and instead 'ga ma pa ma ree' be used to avoid any identity crisis. This is plainly incorrect.

There are a number of examples both in Janaranjani and Poornachandrika that admit these phrases, eg: the phrase 'edabaya' in the Anupallavi of the kriti 'Nadadina Mata' (Janaranjani-Tyagaraj) would be noted as 'ri ga ma ree saa' (in the upper octave). Also the second line of the Cittaswaram of Pahimam Sri Rajarajeswari ends as 'ri ga ma ri saa, sa da pa maa ree, sa ri gam ma' An excellent example of the same is Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer's rendition. Similarly for POorna Chandrika, in the anupallavi of the krithi 'Telisi Rama' , the phrase 'Talapulanni Milipi Nimisha' is noted as 'paa pama ree-pama ga ma ree-ree ga ma ree- ga ma pa ma ree'.

The anupalalvi of the krithi 'Palukavemina' o f Tyagaraja, 'Aluga Kaaranamermira' is notated as 'pa paa ma paa pa ma ga maa ree- ga ma pa ma ree'. These examples are from standard krithis and ahve been sung time and again by great stalwarts of yesteryeards and also by contemporary veterans and vidwans.

To summarise the main distinction between Poornachandrika and janaranjani would reside in the pa-to-sa regions, both in ascending and descent. The revewer has pointed out that the Jhanta phrase 'sa sa ri ri ga' is out of place in Kedaram. This is again incorrect.

The phrase prakasam in 'Ananda natana' of Muthuswamy Dikshitar is noted as 'sa sa ri ri ga sa.' Also in the Swati tirunal kriti 'Paramanananda natana' as notated by Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer, the phrase 'natana' is represented as 'sa sa ri ri ga sa'. This is a very common phrase in Kedaram and many musicians have rendered this in krithis, alapna and while singing kalpana swaram. I have several examples in my audio archives of past masters to back up this assertion- S. Soumya.

This is the reply by the artist that appeared in today's hindu. I couldnt find it in the website. So thought must type it out for the benefit of the rasikas. A slap on Hindu's face. I think hindu has to rethink before appointing a reviewer. Apart from few thought provoking and informative articles by musicians themseleves the reviewers merely list out the krithis not review them. It is not necessary that everytime the reviewer has to write in a condescending manner, but can point out good stuff from a concert too...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 11 Jan 2008, 21:54

I wouldn't call it a slap in the face, Shankarabharanam. I think they've done well to allow artistes to hit back...reiewers, like artistes, are only human and it is OK to make mistakes...but if the mistakes happen too often or he/she appears to be biased....like a certain Carribean gentleman whose bloomers received some unkind media attention recently ....well, I guess it is time for the critic to break the nib as far as his career is concerned...

shankarabharanam · Post by **shankarabharanam** » 11 Jan 2008, 22:06

Mr. Vijay i don't think i am too harsh. This is the third instance that artists have come forward and spoken their minds pointing out the reviewers fault. Earlier Ranjani and gayatri had pointed out faults in the reviews. I am sure many would opine with me that Hindu is one of the few papers that provides space for arts and culture and dedicates an enitre suppliment. Being in this industry i know it is too tough to go ahead and write about music. But the whole issue is when you are given the space make use of it. Like Mrs Soumya pointed out that many music rasikas and students read it and look forward to the reviews. I appreciate the artists who came forward and clarified the matter. I appreciate Hindu for giving them an opportunity to speak. But what about the blot. The credibility of the paper and the reviews. Such reviews definately make people wonder whether we should go by the reviewers word. Lets not forget rasikas who don't attend concerts get a feel of the concert only through reviews.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 11 Jan 2008, 23:19

First of all , one should thank Shankarabharanam for painstakingly typing out the responses from the artists

"The Hindu" had it coming when it published a letter from one Mr.Ramaswamy from New Delhi belittling Shri Karaikudi Mani , which I thought was in extremely bad taste and very much unlike the paper's character. TMK's and Suresh's responses have be befitting and forceful. I think it is high time the Music Academy did away with this practice of program lists. I understand Bombay Jayashri did not even sing one song from the list this season. For a Manodharma based Sangeetham , which is what Carnatic Music is , there should be no fetters on the artists's creativity. From what I heard from many the Tani of Shri Mani and Ghatam Suresh was out of the world. Such being the case the last thing one expected from "The Hindu" was a letter to the editor rubbishing the length of the Tani.

Sowmya's response reveals the technical shortcomings of the reviewer concerned. Something that "The Hindu" must tigten up on.

All the above instances notwithstanding , one must appreciate the management of the newspaper for balancing the coverage , by allowing the artists's responses to be prominently published (except that on line readers like me had to be disappointed by the diappearence ! ). Maybe as Vijay pointed out , there could be more space allocated for responses by the respective artists to the reviews.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 11 Jan 2008, 23:20

Shankarabaranam forgot to mention - many thanks for the translation too!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 11 Jan 2008, 23:42

A healthy criticism is essential for the survival and advancement of an art from. Most Rasikas look forward to reviews to appreciate the nuances and fine points of concerts and to educate themselves. The reputation of a reviewer is made or broken through his technical knowledge and unbiassed reviews. As more and more artistes come forward to rebut and explain their side of the criticisms CM advances and Rasikas get enlightened. In that respect Hindu is doing a great service by providing the opportunity for both sides. Of course the Reviewer must have good credentials and perhaps some form of 'cetification' will be in order. Also the language of the critic should be chaste and should be of a kind to encourage the advancement of the up-and-coming. At the same time servile adulation of even the great is unlikely to be appreciated. Finally Forums like this one should be the gateway for further discussions, clarifications as well as interchange of ideas between performers and Rasikas.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 12 Jan 2008, 01:28

Shankarabharanam, thanks for posting the interesting letters. It was really helpful for those of us that do not have access to the print version of the Hindu.

Vijay, I agree that it all reviewers are human too and are susceptible to mistakes. In these cases, they are more than casual errors. Especially given the condescending nature of some of the comments.

To address Cienu and cmlovers's point, I agree that Hindu needs to tighten up its reviewer selection process. But it is not V. Subrahmaniam's resume that is the problem. He is a highly-trained musician who was recently named Sangeetha Kala Acharya by MA, although with limited stage experience except as a backing vocalist for SSI. The problem is that he brings all his prejudices and biases to the table and quite transparently so (remenber his reviews of Gayathri Girish last year or Maharajapuram Srinivasan).

The other big concern I have is that none of Hindu's reviews seem to peer-reviewed, fact checked or edited. Every one of the reviews in this forum goes through elaborate scrutiny. I'm sure the hindu does this for the news stories or they would get sued, why won't they do this for the reviews? Like cmlover, I also appreciate the fact that they published these rejoinders.

venkatr · Post by **venkatr** » 12 Jan 2008, 02:05

Here is another review from Hindu on a TVS concert . Look at the words used to describe his shankarabaranam - review or show of reviewer's vocabulary ?!

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2008/01/11/stor ... 950400.htm

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Jan 2008, 04:01

shankaraabharanam
I am a bit confused here, not having access to the actual publication. I understand the first is a letter to the editor by Mr. Ramasvamy and the second (addressed by Sowmya) is an actual review by the veteran V subramaniam. These two are distinctly different; while the former is an expression of personal opinion which is allowed under freedom of expression by the daily which is not responsible for the views expressed, the latter is a review commisioned by the daily for which it has a collective responsibility since the reviewer is accorded the Press previleges. The latter ought to be done only by an expert in CM and the comments ought to be peer reviewed at least internally by the daily. Rasikas take these views seriously. Sowmya has done well to contest the technical issues chapter and verse and kudos to her. Perhaps the reviewer should acknowledge his error or contest the points raised. The Hindu should do well to take note of the issue as well the discussion among the Rasikas herein. In the former case though it was nice of TMK to have clarified the issues he should respect the disappointment of Rasika(s) about the absence of Tani for the respected accompanist and courteously explained it to the audience during the performance itself. Though there are no established protocols for concerts, courtesy on the part of a performer as well as Rasikas and openess should never be dispensed with.

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 12 Jan 2008, 07:31

CML - It should be absence of RTP and not tani.

jananee · Post by **jananee** » 12 Jan 2008, 08:25

Thanks Shankarabaranam for typing out the letters..i heard about it but could not get to read it on line..

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 12 Jan 2008, 08:33

Sowmya in her retort to the reviewer has pointed about the deployment of janta swara phrases in KEDARAM and in support of her contention she quoted SSI 's notation to the phrase "NA..TA.. NA.." SA SA RI RI GA SA' DOES NOT SEEM TO FIT IN 100% perfectly.Since the same tends to present a tinge of Shankarabharanam.
To get a clear swaroopam of Kedaram it would be more appropriate to have SA MA GA MA PA NI SA:
SA NI PA MA GA RI SA RI GA SA
iT has also become a fashion to emulate a doyen of yester years for each and every thing as if they were infallible.For instance , SSI mama's abhogi contains Nishadham and the recording in the podigai is still available . His usage of Chatusruti Deivatham in shanmukhapriya is universally known.As real seeker of values one has to adopt the theory of KOLLA VENDIYADAI KONDU THALLAVENDIYADAI THALLI" DISCARDING THE THE "PERIYAVAA SEINJA PERUMALE SENJA MAADIRI" theory.
Ramaraj

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 12 Jan 2008, 09:01

If the 'Sa Sa Ri Ri Ga Sa' is written with correct splitting as 'Sa,Sa,Ri Ri Ga,Sa' it is absolutely kosher for kEdAra IMO. If the phrase is notated or sung plain without the appropriate kArvais or gamakas, I agree it will not sound appropriate. Smt. Sowmya is spot-on in her observations regarding Ananda naTana prakASam and paramAnanda naTana.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Jan 2008, 09:12

In TKG's notation for T's Raama nIpai he codes S,SRRG,S for (prEma)bOdu....
as does Sundaram Iyer (Thyagaraja kIrtana maala part2) for tanaku...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Jan 2008, 09:21

Thx sbala!

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 12 Jan 2008, 10:42

hallo, Prashant, As u rightly said, proper punctuations between the notated phrases, would have avoided this hinge.Even Sowmya could have popinted out this glaring omission by the critic, who seems to have dubiously dealt this technical aspect giving vent to controversy involving Jantaswara prayogam .

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 12 Jan 2008, 11:08

Thanks sankarabaranam for the translation

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Jan 2008, 11:46

Limited resources and priorities.

Whilst news items may come under, at least some, scrutiny, I doubt that 'feature' articles or reviews do.

Bear in mind that, whilst for us, this stuff matters, for many readers it has the same importance as, for instance, a film review does for me --- I don't even glance at them.

To be honest, while I'm glad that the Hindu (and, increasingly this year, the NIE) gives coverage to music, I don't take much notice of the reviews either.

shankarabharanam · Post by **shankarabharanam** » 12 Jan 2008, 12:19

Pointing at CM lover, The first reply by Mr. TM Krishna and Mr. Ghatam V Suresh was to a rasikas view that was published in the newspaper. TMK has clearly mentioned why he couldn't sing an RTP. And soumya has replied to a review of her concert at the MA. I did mention Ranjani and Gayatri because they had also replied to a review of their concert where the reviewer had issue about their splitting of a word in a tamil krithi. Once i get hold of the copy, will translate it here. The whole issue that i am trying to point here that has been discussed earlier is the biased review and on many occasions facts aren't reported. A paper like Hindu have taken the response from the artist seriously hence published it. But there could have been instances where they wouldn' t have published it and the reviewer might have made such allegations on the performance. Coming back to square one, they need to be little more careful and go with an open mind for reviewing. For example i always felt SVK had problems with briga music no matter how good the concert would have been. Your personal likings should take a back seat as a reviewer. But all said and donei accept with Mr Vijay that more opportunities should given to artist for a healthy debate.

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 12 Jan 2008, 22:02

Hi I have read with a lot of interest the views of the members for the reviews appearing in the Hindu. I fail to understand what is meant by the remark that personal likings of a reviewer should take a back seat while reviewing. I believe that the reviewer writes what he experiences in a particular concert and the review is only a reflection of this. A senior critic like SVK who has reviewed concerts of the stalwarts of the era that has passed and his innings as a critic of five decades deserves better mention. His critical reviews may not be palatable to a lot of us but he is within his own right to do so I don't think that any of his reviews can be said to be personally demeaning to the performer. Yes he may have been critical of the performance. We either agree with what he may say or disagree ...Every concert has different effect on the rasikas at a personal level Ragjay

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 12 Jan 2008, 22:19

TMK sang at the M.A. this season... A lot has been expressed about the long tani of the Guru and Suresh....The rasikas have expressed their disappointment at the absence of the RTP in this concert and judging from the response of TMK and Suresh the review and views expressed ,some of the rasikas felt that the tani was too long. It must be borne in mind that this is a vocal concert and not a tala vadhya concert and given the duration of the concert probably it was felt the tani could have been shorter.and the rasikas felt that anRTP could have been sung. It is their view and the absence of the same had disappointed some of the rasikas It is magnanimous on part of TMK to support the percussion exercise,and the performer.It is also a fact that Karaikudi Mani and Suresh have enthralled the audiences with their prowess in their tani on innumerable occassions earlier as they did for this concert. but the fact remains that the view of the rasika and the reviewer are also right in their own perspective, not withstanding the fact that they do not have privy to what goes on the stage prior to the commencement of the performance. Bye Ragjay

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Jan 2008, 22:41

Simply put
personal views ---->letter to editor
General view and technical issues ------> Review
We Rasikas will distinguish between the two as should the performer. The former may be contaminated by errors and prejudices but the latter within human limitations should be scrupulouslu clean and factual. We almost read the latter and accord the status of a scientific publication (wish there were references and citations!).

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Jan 2008, 22:49

The trouble with SVK (and reviewers like him) is they forget that their words are tinged with their biases and simply start pontificating as to how real music should be - blah blah blah. Reviews are ALWAYS the opinions of the reviewer. Now we should never forget that - but IMO more importantly the reviewer should never forget that and thus avoid gross generalizations.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 12 Jan 2008, 23:40

Hi Ragjay, the way I look at it - if reviewers record personal likes and dislikes, then they demote themselves to the status of ordinary rasikas. It doesn't take a reviewer to tell whether or not they liked a concert - pretty much anyone can do that. A critic needs to tell us why something was wrong or right...they need to demonstrate that they have understood the nuances of raga and laya exhibited by the artiste. Some reviews clearly reveal such an understanding - others are short on technical details and long on their rather rigid ideas about music which are often expressed in a needlessly offensive manner...SVK' reviews, I am afraid, usually fall in the latter category.

As regards the letter that prompted the response from TMK, I think it was the tone more than the content that provoked the artiste. If he had left it at saying that the RTP was missed, I don't think TMK would have bothered to respond. Instead, there was some criticism of KRM and Suresh which seemed somewhat presumptuous and alleged unprofessioanlism on their part. This, quite understandably, drew Krishna's ire...

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 13 Jan 2008, 02:51

CMLover....you are spot on....there is no room for personal opinions in a review. Subbudu sir in his hay days, had a some what healthy mix of both review as well as his personal opinions. Quite rightly, he was criticised for his exhuberance which often bordered on insensitivity. SVK does that too. So reviewers when they lower their sights to that of a rasika, should be ready to receive bouquets as well as bricks for their action or inaction.

shankarabharanam · Post by **shankarabharanam** » 13 Jan 2008, 16:22

Spot on Mr. Vijay..

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 13 Jan 2008, 19:05

Sam,

there is no room for personal opinions in a review

In a world where the distinction between 'news' and 'opinions' has vanished, it is a tall order.

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 13 Jan 2008, 20:54

Hi The fact that a review should tell us what is right or wrong is again subjective again one may not agree with what the reviewer says and and if so the debate continues. Who is to decide whether the critic is competent or not. i suppose that the credentials of a critic may have some bearing. This is one of the reasons why I said personal experience at the concert manifests itself in the review.If one is to give a general review that he may simply list the list of songs sung and complete the reviews.Some reviewers write in great detail about the concert and other aspects of the concert. But if they are critical in their analysis then there is a complaint that the critic is biased and too verbose. Even a well written and critical review will not be received well by all. Hence this debate will always continue.......Ragjay

ramanujam.eyunni · Post by **ramanujam.eyunni** » 14 Jan 2008, 21:02

....Among violinists and mridangam players, some sharp youngsters are ruling the roost, with good knowledge and stagecraft, like Akkarai Subhalakshmi, Amrita Murali, Charumati Ramanujam, Charumati Raghuram,KV Gopala krishnan,R Sankaranarayanan to name a few.Some of them don double hats like singer-violinist,mridangam-kanjira player and so on.......

Its Charulatha Ramanujam, not Charumathi Ramanujam.

greatkrishna · Post by **greatkrishna** » 15 Jan 2008, 10:00

ramanujam.eyunni,

I'd like to throw Nagai Sriram in that mix...he might be an older performing artist but as someone who is a regular accompanist for the likes of TNS, TVS etc, and at such a young age..he is truly a skilled violinist

greatkrishna · Post by **greatkrishna** » 15 Jan 2008, 10:03

Is it me, or are we living in an age where young talented Kanjira artistes are in abundance..

Shree Sundarakmur, Amrith, B Purushotham, Anirudh Athreya, K V G..surely this depth is promising. One feels that the majority of the credit for this should go to Harishankar..His art has truly inspired a generation and kanjira as uppapakavadhyam to the fore

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Jan 2008, 11:34

It is nice to see prominence being given to this instrument.

What we need now is more morsing players on stage

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 17 Jan 2008, 07:56

I totally agree with Arunk and Vijay,
SVK's reviews , more often than not, are FRACTURED, DEBILITATED, AND OUT OF THE CONTEXT,
SCRIBLINGS, ultimately tending to decimate the spirit of the youth who wish to pursue the Divine Art,seriously,
since bias has become the order of the DAY, !
which in it's own inimical WAY !!
has a longer lasting SAY !!!
in keeping the blossoming buds' future at BAY !!!!
.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 18 Jan 2008, 02:55

Here's the latest in the ongoing saga: http://www.hindu.com/fr/2008/01/18/stor ... 450600.htm

I think Ramaswamy Iyer's apology appears quite sincere.
V. Subrahmaniam sounds very defensive in his rejoinder.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 18 Jan 2008, 05:48

Just defensive ??

My views only reflect those of my guru Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer."

Should have been clearly mentioned in the review in the first place

"I have had the privilege of being with my guru for 47 long years and he has imparted to me the intricacies of many ragams the details of which cannot be explained through these columns."

What cannot be explained in these columns should not be attempted

A senior authority on Raga lakshanams totally corroborated with my view
Better to name them them so that modern day thinking artists can take the argument , right upto their doorsteps

on the other hand are fully supported by authorities in the field.
Evidence ..Evidence.That is what the artist wanted in the first place

remarks and observations are made with a view to enhancing the quality of the concerts of the artists .
Good sound systems do that.
True of a quiet and understanding audience ,too.
True of a new generation of irrepressible performers ..
a breed that believes in asking questions at every stage in the process of maturing and value depth of associations instead of length

Sowmya to the best of my memory has never quoted how long she was associated with her Guru , but has always managed to convey the depth of her interactions and the flow of musical values , with specific examples.
Her objections were a perfect example of a cultured response.May her tribe increase

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Jan 2008, 08:10

On the dot coolkarni! I hope he reads this thread. Further the sowmya quote; "Swati tirunal kriti 'Paramanananda natana' as notated by Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer, the phrase 'natana' is represented as 'sa sa ri ri ga sa'. " is very telling. SSI will not notate himself unless he is convinced he was right. He is hiding behind a 'dead man's cloaks' and citing vague unverifiable defensive arguments.
what a tangled web these reviewers weave when they want to deceive..

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 18 Jan 2008, 09:46

As CMlover and Cool-ji note, V. Subrahmaniam's circular logic is very flawed.
I wonder how much he far thinks he can push his argument based on association with authority.

jnaanasoonyam · Post by **jnaanasoonyam** » 18 Jan 2008, 12:21

remarks and observations are made with a view to enhancing the quality of the concerts of the artists

If positive feedback was the aim, it could have been done privately... a simple phone call or e-mail would have sufficed, rather than making dubious statements in print and getting your nose bloodied in the process!

kadambam · Post by **kadambam** » 18 Jan 2008, 21:18

V.Subramanyam has been infamous for such loose statements and this is a quote from his letter in hindu yesterday.

Similarly, Kedaram as handled by Muthuswamy Dikshitar in â€˜Anandanatana Prakasamâ€™ contains certain sancharams which do not bring out the full flavour of the ragam.

Is this his opinion? or his Guru's? Irrespective of whoever it belongs to, i would not care to hear/read anything from a man who could write such a statement about one of the master pieces of Shri.Dikshitar. I think Hindu is to be blamed for allowing such people to write!!!

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 18 Jan 2008, 21:53

His view was that the composition should not be tampered with and liberties should not be
taken with Manodharma

In the Tamil book of TSV/AKG containing Thyagaraja Kritis, the notation of Pancha Ratna Krits as designed by SSI is given.

In the Kriti, 'endarO mahAnubhAvulu', there are two glaring errors - (1) In anupallavi - it is given as 'canduru varNuni' - which is wrong - it should be 'canduru vadanuni' or 'candra vadanuni'; (2) in charana 2, it is given as 'sancAramu nilipi' - it should be 'SancAramu salipi'.

While the first error could be condoned, the second one goes totally against the spirit of the Kriti.
I have pointed this out in this forum on any number of occasions.

Generation after generation have been singing this kriti and similar kRitis with impunity.

A wonderful tradition indeed!

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 18 Jan 2008, 22:13

Excellent VGV, Your pointing out the errors should serve as an eye opener to many. This shows to prove that the over idolized SSi is not infallible.Even as per his own words people need not attach credence to unsuitable phrases (let it be even dhikthar's or any other composer for that matter) and vidwans can adjust as per their needs.(as told by V.S.)
This shows to establish my oft-repeated claim that SSI is not the only moral guardian of CM.Or can we take it like this.VS.is bold enough to contradict his guru's views only after his departure to the celestial worlds !!! It is once again proved that the theory "PERIYAVAA SEIDAA PERUMALE SEIDA MAADIRI"does not hold water in the ever changing scenario of CM field too.SSi's NIshadaprayogam in Abhoghi and Chatusruti Deivathaprayogam in shanmughapria stand testimony .
vageyakara. As u aptly opined aberrations of such sorts have been handed down from generation to generation.and people don't care to even raise their suggestive opinions , for fear of derogation from
those people who perpetually profess the theory of "Thudi pADal"

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 19 Jan 2008, 10:14

>>Similarly, Kedaram as handled by Muthuswamy Dikshitar in â€˜Anandanatana Prakasamâ€™ contains certain sancharams which do not bring out the full flavour of the ragam.

I did not have the privilege of a 47 year association with SSI, in fact my only contact with musicians is an (extremely rare) email/telephone call. Even that is rarer still these days now that I have pretty much stopped attending concerts and stuff. I just listen to music that I have been immensely fortunate in obtaining. My only association with SSI has been through my uncle who saw him once. For an autograph.

But somehow that statement makes no sense to me. Would someone please explain to this not so humble man how can "certain sancharams NOT bring out the full flavour of the ragam"? What is a "full flavour" anyway? Obviously V Subrahmanyam is THE authority on Kedaram thanks to his association with SSI who is the last word in music. Would someone please translate his erudite comments on music in general and Kedaram in particular (I only have MDR's stellar rendition of this krithi to go by and not SSI's) into simple english so someone unitiated into music can attain salvation?

vidya · Post by **vidya** » 20 Jan 2008, 17:11

- There seems to be a difference in the notated versions of the word PrakAsam in the SSP and Sundaram Iyer's kIrtanamAlA.The said jhanta payogam occurs in sundaram iyer's notation but is not in the SSP. Variations in audio renditions of the Pallavi also seems to suggest this. May be some of the artistes here who learnt this composition could clarify this?

Shri.V.Subrahmaniam's response raises a few pertinent points:

- Does a prayOga (offbeat, weird , archaic or asaTTu prayOgam) that occurs in one or two composition of composer's due to their own artistic license
or historical reasons have to be reflected when one sings improvised music today? ie When one sings Anandabhairavi today
should they base it entirely on the gItam and then proceed to sing a contemporary musical composition..
ie Can exceptions in musical compositions intrude into elements improvised singing? A subjective issue again.

- Also there may be n common prayogas between two ragas. Which one was or should be stressed upon? Which was repeatedly stressed upon?
Was it in the rAgam singing? Or in the swaram rendition? We know none of these.So the 'specific examples' cited really does not
make any contextual sense for 'taking sides' unless one heard the concert or one is an authority on the subject.

- Finally there are no absolute terms for defining the flavor of a rAgam and a lot of old-timers and senior musicians
do not and will not tend to think in this mode.The whole issue rests on the musical judgement and innate musical sense of the musician.
So yes these things cannot be explained though some of us may balk at the idea.This is like the arguments over whether someone
can sing tAnam in SAma or dEvagAndhAri..No it is not written anywhere but then tAnam = madhyamakAlam. Another example, an artiste sings the svarajati as the second item
in a concert.No it is not written anywhere but musical sense would prevail. Highly Subjective yes but there do seem to be general guidelines.And artistic license
has veto over the guidelines.

- So a reviewer listens to a concert and makes his opinions based on his musical perceptions and what his musical values.The artiste and the readers
may or may not agree with them. But we need to keep in mind that shri.VS is not someone like SVK who does not know music but a veteran musician who has worked on raga lakshana CDs and has imbibed a lot of musical experience.

Disclaimer:
I am not taking stands here and am not sure which is correct (atleast in the Janaranjani - pUrNacandrika case I would like to know more). Or even trying to defend Shri.V.Subrahmanyam's position as I am not qualified to make a technical judgement. I am merely pointing out the folly in jumping to conclusions without understanding the nature of issues at hand and the tone of some of the posts here. (Clarification : ) I am referring specifically to the posts dealing with two musical aspects ie the Kedaram and the Janaranjani-pUrNacandrika and the review and counter responses and not to the other posts which talk about the Abhogi issue and the Canduru varNuni which are entirely different.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 20 Jan 2008, 18:47

tone of some of the posts here w.r.to a senior musician.

vidya,
Kindly concentrate on the content of post - not the words - and post your objections.

neTrikkaNNai tiRandAlum kuTram kuTramE

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 21 Jan 2008, 02:14

- So a reviewer listens to a concert and makes his opinions based on his musical perceptions and what his musical values.The artiste and the readers
may or may not agree with them. But we need to keep in mind that shri.VS is not someone like SVK who does not know music but a veteran musician who has worked on raga lakshana CDs and has imbibed a lot of musical experience.

The curious thing is if SVK wrote such things, it is easy for people to dismiss them for obvious reasons.

But when a veteran musician finds faults with the musical fundamentals of the artist( and not about the actual performance of the artisit on that day ), it is more than personal opinions rooted in subjective aesthetics. You have written excellently about the complexities involved in determining ragha lakshanam and it does take that many words to properly establish the context, let alone come to any firm conclusions. And it looks like VS takes 'his school''s definition as THE definition and directly find fault with the artist from another school for not following the dictates of his school. To me, this kind of subject belongs to the MA morning debate sessions during the season rather than a sentence or two in a review.