Hameer Kalyani

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 15 Jan 2008, 04:20

Vainika,

This was a treat

Thanks,

-Ramakriya

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 15 Jan 2008, 05:12

Thank you Vainika.A favourite raga of mine.Thats why I chose the name Kedar for my son !!!

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 15 Jan 2008, 06:53

can anybody explain the subtle difference between kedar and hamir kalyani , a very very old film song in kedar is 'panchi banwra' by Kurshid gobilalitha

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 15 Jan 2008, 07:37

Hi GBL, Hameer Kalyani is a derivate of Kalyani (65th meLam0 as per our CM and it is known to be derivative of Kalyani(1st dhat) as per Hind.Music.
WhereasKedara Natta (2nd Dhat as per H.M.) is known as KEDAR OF CM also known known to be derived from SHADVIDA MARGINI (46TH MELAM (AS PER cm)

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 15 Jan 2008, 07:56

Hallo Balu,
hameer kalyani is a beautiful raaga, with trickish prayogas both in HM and CM .
To get a clear swaroopam of this ragam, The scale (the way I adopt) be described like this
Instead of starting from shadjam ,
NII SA MA( 1) GA PA MA(2)DA PA NI(2) DA SA...(Aroh)
SA NI(2) DA NI(1)DA PA MA(2) DA PA GA ..MA(1) REE.. SA(avaroh)
What a beautiful combination !!! It deploys Two Madhyamams, and rtwo nishadhams.
That too in Avarohanam sudha Madhyamam and chathsruti rishabham used as nyaasa swarams endearingly enhances the beauty of the ragam to himalayan hights.!!! .

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 15 Jan 2008, 08:15

Thanks a lot , Vainika. Kalpakam Mami's HK was a wondeful way to start my Pongal Holiday

Thank you Vageyakara for your wonderful insights into the beauty of this truly Great Raga.

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 15 Jan 2008, 08:58

Thank u CIENU for your compliments.

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 15 Jan 2008, 16:07

vageyakara wrote:SA NI(2) DA NI(1)DA PA MA(2) DA PA GA ..MA(1) REE.. SA(avaroh)
What a beautiful combination !!! It deploys Two Madhyamams, and rtwo nishadhams.

Two niShAdams? In kEdar, yes, but surely not in any of the hamIr kalyANI compositions one encounters (mAnamu lEda, parimala ranganATham, puraharanandana, vEnkaTa shaila, Lalgudi's tillana)

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 15 Jan 2008, 17:19

Ijust asked for a simple cup of coffee(subtle difference between kedar and hameer kalyani) but vageyakara and vainika have served me sakkaraipongal ,vadai and thanjavur degree coffee , I mean their profound explanation of the differences of the 2 attractive raagas thank you both gobilalitha

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 15 Jan 2008, 20:01

Being a HIndustani,Ragam.,
(imported in to our CM by MD, The Ragaswaroopam does get clarity only when Ni is deployed in the
Avarohanam..It is such a peculiar ragam which adopts N2 in Arohanam and two N's in the avarohanam.North Indian countrerpart and The great legend Volety ,( Muniganti venkatrao school)used to adopt this scale.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 15 Jan 2008, 20:28

vageyakara wrote:WhereasKedara Natta (2nd Dhat as per H.M.) is known as KEDAR OF CM also known as SHADVIDA MARGINI (46TH MELAM (AS PER cm)

Vaggeyakara, I did not understand the latter part of your statement.

-Ramakriya

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 15 Jan 2008, 21:03

Please refer Ragam pravaaham Page aNBo. 259 which gives details about HM Ragas and their Dhat s (similar to our MeLam) and corresponding CmRagams.
For Kedara Natta the Dhat is given as (2) dhatutM and the coresponding Cm RagaKedar (janya of Dhira Shankarabharanam and also (46) shadvida mArgiNI
The above book is one of the authentic reference book compiled by Ms.D.Pattammal who has given raaga lakshnas for about 5000 Ragas. The Book is titled as RAAGAM PRAVAAHAM.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 15 Jan 2008, 22:20

The reason I asked this is that mELa 46 is not part of the 10 thAT system of Hindustani system.

IIRC, the 10 named thATs are bilAval (29), yaman (65), khammaj (28), bhairavi (8), bhairav (15), pUrvi (51), mArvA (53), kAFi (22), tODi (45) and asAvari (20) ; (The number in the parantheses corresponds to our mELa number)

-Ramakriya

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 17 Jan 2008, 20:46

Hi Ramakriya,
As per the text I referred earlier, ou r Mohanam has been indicated as the derivative of thAt NO12- Jayit kalyani,
and also shown as a derivative of thAtNo.(2)-Deshkar
and also -do- thAt No.(1) sudha kalyani
-d0- thAt No(1) Bhoop ***
-do- that NO(2) Sudha Bhibas***
From the u may notice there are various versions and thAtNo (2) ha s diff.names(ViZ) Deshkar and sudha BHibas. SimiularlythAt no (1) has two names (viz) Sudha Kalyani and Bhoop.
You may also notice that the thats are more than (10) in no. ref.above (12)Jayit kalyani is the thAt from which Mohanam is derived.
There is another thAt known as KamalaManohari - (15) corresponding to our KAMALAMANOHARI -(27th melaJanyam
Similarly Kedar as per CM is derived from (29)Dhirasankarabharanam and the text refers as SHADVIDA MAREGINI TOO.(46)
Though the text does not have the total No of thAts, it is quite evident the number is more than ten.
Hence multiciplicity in identities is common in both the systems.
Ramaraj

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 17 Jan 2008, 22:28

Vageyakara,

I have not read this book - but I know about efforts to add more number of thATs, so that rAgas that are imported from south can be classified properly. The 10-thAT system was put forward by V N Bhatjande in early 20th century. He had consulted with the likes of Subburama Dikshita before proposing this scheme. [ Earlier schemes of classification relied on the rAg-rAgiNi scheme, IIRC].

However, I find it interesting that in the scheme shown in Ragapravaham, rAgas that are not sampUrNa (like dEshkAr, bhUp and bibhAs ) are granted the thAT status.

-Ramakriya

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 18 Jan 2008, 19:58

Ramakriya,
Please read this book which is considered as one of the authentic source of information acknowledged by Stalwarts like Dr.S.Ramanathan and others.
vageyakara

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 20 Jan 2008, 11:19

vageyakara wrote:Being a HIndustani,Ragam., (imported in to our CM by MD, The Ragaswaroopam does get clarity only when Ni is deployed in the Avarohanam..It is such a peculiar ragam which adopts N2 in Arohanam and two N's in the avarohanam.North Indian countrerpart

Dear Vageyakara, thank you for this information on two niShAdas of HK, of which I was not previously aware, and which has not even been mentioned in texts such as the sangIta sampradAya pradarshinI of Subbarama Dikshitar.

By the criterion you mention - that rAgas imported from HM into CM by MD should possess all the characteristics of their HM counterpart - one would also expect dwijAvanTi/jujAvanti to have both the niShAdAs of jaijAvanti. Strangely, this does not appear to be the case, at least in the one MD composition I've studied.

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 20 Jan 2008, 18:27

Hindusthani music has a peculiar classification and structure of Ragas. Yet all of them has an inherent beauty that, more often than not , tended to be the reason for our CM to adopt . You have rightly pointed out , for instance Ragam Dwijavanti some more can be added to the list of tantalizing beauties of HM.
they are sindhu Bhairavi, Behag to mention a few.What a yomen service MD has done to our CM by absorbing the immortal quintesence of HM and presented, nay,/gifted to our CM .After all Music is universal and DIVINE.!!! . .

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 21 Jan 2008, 09:33

vainika wrote:
vageyakara wrote:Being a HIndustani,Ragam., (imported in to our CM by MD, The Ragaswaroopam does get clarity only when Ni is deployed in the Avarohanam..It is such a peculiar ragam which adopts N2 in Arohanam and two N's in the avarohanam.North Indian countrerpart
Dear Vageyakara, thank you for this information on two niShAdas of HK, of which I was not previously aware, and which has not even been mentioned in texts such as the sangIta sampradAya pradarshinI of Subbarama Dikshitar..

I faintly recollect listening to RK Srikanthan and some other artists singing a dEvaranAma ( uttamara sanga enagittu salahO) in Hameer Kalyani using prayogas with Kaishiki nishAda.

-Ramakriya

srutishree · Post by **srutishree** » 25 Jan 2008, 11:16

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Sri MS Gopalakrishnan's rendering of "Maanamu Leda" (Tyagaraja) in Hameer Kalyani. This is available as a commercial recording, having been released around 1974-75.

The alaapana and kalpana swarams are awesome and out of this world!! I haven't yet heard a comparable rendering (vocal or instrumental) so far.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 20 Aug 2023, 22:31

I cannot confirm the Violin Vidvan here - it is in MSG Bhani.

https://youtu.be/Gy74_ndRc3Y?t=506 - I see N2 being traversed through, to be exact at 8:33. More than the Lakshana, it is an effect of mUrcana and sAdhana, where M1's presence in lower tetrachord inspires a traversal through N2.

Instead of the history of how it originated or where from it originated, it is the principle that is of significance. Sound ( pardon the pun) philosophies always triumph and are timeless. Even if it is discovered afresh anytime recent or past, they are timeless (both ancient and modern at the same time).

rasikas.org

Hameer Kalyani

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