naTarAjA pATTu

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 01 Feb 2008, 16:13

Could anyone shed some more light on this work. Several viruttams are taken from this especially by Shri Sanjay. Is the text available?

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 01 Feb 2008, 16:19

Probably you are referring to 'tiruvatpA' of Vallalar. Can you please post one sample?

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 01 Feb 2008, 16:42

Sivanshuthi
Nataraja Pathu

Mannadhi boodhamodu vinnadhi andam nee
Marai naangin adi mudiyum nee
Madhiyum nee, raviyum nee, punalum nee, analum nee,
Mandalam irandezhum nee
Pennum nee aanum nee
Paluyirukku uyirum nee
Piravum nee, oruvan neeye,
Bedhadhi bedham nee, paadhadhi kesam nee
Petra thaay thandhai neeye,
Ponum nee, porulum nee, bodhikka vandha guru nee,
Pugazhona kiranangal onbhadhum nee, indha buvnangal petravanum neeye.
Yennariya jeeva kodigalindra appane
Yen kuraigal yaar kuraippenâ€™
Eesane, sivagaami nesane
Yenai yeendra thillai vaazh nataraajane

I think this is what prashanth is referring to, could you please check this blog
http://blogs.prashu.com/musictheory/200 ... -pathu.php

meena · Post by **meena** » 02 Feb 2008, 06:39

prashant

The composer is Muniswami Mudaliyar.

maNNAdi bhUtamODu ( Natarajar Pathu) rAgamAlikA. Adi tALA.

1: maNNAdi bhItamODu viNNAdi aNDam nI marai nAngin aDimuDiyum nI
matiyum nI raviyum nI punalum nI aruLum nI maNDalam iraNDEzhum nI
peNNum nI Anum nI palluyirkku uyirum nI piravum nI oruvan nIyE
bhEdAtibhEdam nI pAdAikEsham nI peTra tAi tandai nIyE
ponnum nI poruLum nI iruLum nI oLiyum nI bOdhikka vanda guru nI
pughazhOnAgirangaL onbadum nI inda bhuvanangaL peTravanum nI
ennariyA jIva kOTigaL InrippavanE en kuraigaL yArkkurippEn
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE
2: mAnIDa mazhuvADa matiyADa punalADa mangai shivakAmi pADa
mAlADa nUlADa maraiyADa tiraiyADa mirai tanda brahma muni ADa
kOnADa vAnulagu kuTTa mELam ADa kunjara mukhattAnADa
kuNDalam iraNDADa daNDai puliyuDaiyADa kuzhandai murugEsanADa
jnAnasambandarODu indirar padineTTu muni aTTa bAlakanumADa
nurai tumbai arugADa nandi vAhanamADa nATTiya peNgaLADa
vinaiyODu unai pADa enai nADi iduvELai virudODu ADi varuvAi
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tilla vAzh naTarAjanE
3: kaDal enra bhuvi mIdil alai enra uru koNDa kanavenra vAzhvai nambi
kATrena mUvAshai mAruta shuzhalinilE kaTTuNDu nitta nittam
uDal enra kumbikku uNavenra irai tEDi OyAmal iravu paghalum
uNDu uranguvadai kaNDadE allAdu oru payanum aDaindilEnE
taTam enra midi karaiyil bandha pAshangaL ennum tAparam pinnaliTTu
tAyenru shEi enru nI enru nAn enru tamiyennai ivvaNNamAi
iDai enru kaDai ninru Enenru kETkAdiruppadu un azhagAgumO
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE
4: pambu shUnyamalla vaippAlla mAranattambanamvaishyamalla
pAtALa vancanam parakAya pravEsha madhuvallai shalamalla
ambu guNDugaL vilaga azhiyum mandiramalla AkhAya kulikaiyalla
anbODu sheiginra vAtAmODigaL alla ariya mOhamum alla
kumbha muni macca muni shaTTa muni brahma riSi konganar pulipANiyum
korakkar vaLLuvar bhOga muni ivarellAm kUriDum vaidyamalla
en manadu unnaDi viTTu nIngAda nilai nirkka Edu ena pughala varuvAi
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE ennai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE
5: nondu vandEnenru Ayiram sholliyum sheiyenna mandam uNDO
nuTpa neri ariyAda piLLaiyai peTra pin nOkkAda tandai uNDO
santatamum tanjam enraDiyai piDitta pin taLarAda nenjam uNDO
danti mukhan Arumukhan iru piLLai illaiyO tandai nI malaDu tAnO
vindaiyum jAlamum unniDam irukkudu vinai onrum arigilEnE
vEdamum shAstramum unnaiyE pugazhudu vEDikkai iduvallavE
inda ulagiIrEzhum En aLittAi shollu ini unnai viDuvadillai
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE ennai Inra tillai vAzh natarAjanE
6: vazhi kaNDu unnaDiyai tudiyAda pOlum vAncai illAda pOdilum
vAlAyamAi kOyil shuTrAda pOdilum vancamE sheida pOdilum
mozhi eganai mOhanai illAmalE pADinum mUrkhanE mugaDAgilum
mOsamE sheyyinum dEshamE kavarinum mUzhgAmayE Aghilum
pArttavargaL shollArgaLO pAr ariya manaivikku pAdi uDal Inda nI
bAlakanAi kArkkAnODO ezhil periya aNDangaL aDukkAi amaitta nI
en kuraigaL tIrtta peridO
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE
7: annai tandai ennai Inradarkku azhuvEnO arivilAdarkku azhuvEnO
allAmal nAnmukhan tannaiyE nOvEnO Ashai munrukku azhuvEnO
mun pirappil enna vinai sheidEnenru azhuvEnO mukti varum enruNarvEnO
tannai nondazhuvEnO ennai nondazhuvEnO tavam ennavenru azhuvEnO
taiyaLarkkazhuvEnO mei vaLarkkazhuvEnO daridra dishaikkazhuvEnO
innum enna piravi verumenru azhuvEnO ellAm uraikka varuvAi
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE
8: kAyA mun maramIdu pU pinju aruttEnO kanniyargaL pazhi koNDEnE
kaDan enru poruL parittu vayir erittEnO kilai vazhiyil mulliTTEnO
tAyAruDanporuLai ilaiyenrEnO tAn enru garvittu kolaigaLai
sheidEnO davashigaLai EshinEnO vAyAra poi sholli vIN poruL
parittu vAnavarai pazhittEnO vaDivu pOl pirarai shErkkAd-aDittEnO
vanda pin en sheidEnO IyAda lObhi enru peyar eDuttEnO ellAm poruttu aruLvAi
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE
9: tAyAr irundenna tandaiyum irundenna tan piravi uravu kOTi
tana malai kuvittenna ghana pEyar eDuttena daraNiyai ANDumenna
sheyargaL irundenna guruvAi irundenna shiSyargaL irundumenna
cittu pOlagaTrenra nittam vratangaL sheidenna nadigaL ellAm
OyAdu mUzhginum enna phalan yaman Olai onru taDukka
udavumE idu ellAm santatam enru nAn unniru pAdam piDittEn
yAr mIdu un manam irundAlum un kaDaikkaN pArvai adu pOdumE
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE
10: innamum shollavO un manam kallO irumbO perum pAraiyO
iru sheviyum mandamO kILAdu madhamO idu unakku azhagu tAnO
enna enna iduvE un sheikai tAnO iru piLLai tApamO yAr mIdu kOpamE
AnAlum nAn viDuvEnO un kai viTTengu shenrAlum nizhal avEnO
ENNi unnai aDuttuk-keDuvEnO OhO idu un kuTram en kuTram onrum
Illai un pArvai peTradu ayyA un kuTramAyinum en kuTramAyinum ini aLikka varuvAi
11: shani rAhu kEtu budhan shukran shevvAi candran sUryan varai
shatrenakkullAkki rAshi pannireNDaiyum samamAi niruttiyuDumE
paNiyottu nakSattirangaL irubattEzhaiyum pakkuvap-paDutti pinnAl
paghirginra kiraNangaL padinonrAyiram veTTi palakaiyum adaTTi en mun
kani pOlavE pEshi keDu ninaivu ninaikkinra kashaDargaLaiyum kashakki
karttanin toNDAram toNDarkku toNDarin toNDarai tozhumpan
Akki iniya vaLamaruvu siruvai sAmi ennai Alvadu un kaDan
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE

meena · Post by **meena** » 02 Feb 2008, 06:40

Corrections to the txt:

1.bhItamodu -> bhUtamodu
punalum nI aruLum nI ->punalum nI analum nI
pAdAikEsham nI -> pAdAdikesham nI
pughazhOnAgirangaL -> pugazhoNA giragangaL
ennariyA jIva kOTigaL InrippavanE ->eNNariya jIvakotIgaL InRa appane

2.mAnida -> mAnAda
mangai shivakAmi pADa -> mangai shivakAmi ADa
mirai tanda brahma muni -> maRAi tanda brahmanAda
daNDai->taNDai
indirar padineTTu muni aTTa bAlakanumADa -> indirAdi padineTTu muni aTTApAlakarumADA
nurai tumbai -> narai tumbai
vinaiyODu ->vinai oDa

3.kATrena ->kATrendRa
tamiyennai->tamiyEnai

4: vaishyamalla ->vasiyamalla
shalamalla -> jAlamalla
5:sheiyenna ->seviyenna
pugazhudu->pugazhudE

6:pOlum->podilum
mUzhgAmayE Aginum->muzhu kAmiyE Aginum
pazhiyenak kallavE tAy tandaikkallvO
kArkkAnODO->kAkkoNAdO

7.ennai -> unnai
verumenru->varumO venRu

8: pazhi koNDEnE-> koNDenO
tAyAruDan piravikenna vinai seydenO tandaporuLilai enrEnO
kolaigaLai->kolaikaLavu
vaDavu pOl pirarai shErkkAd-aDittEnO

9: cittu pOlagaTrenra->cittu pala kaRREnna
udavumE -> udavumO

10.kILAdu madhamO-> kELAdu mandamo

11.iniya vaLamaruvu sirumaNavai munusAmi enai

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 05 Feb 2008, 09:34

Thank you Meenaji.

V_ANNASAMY · Post by **V_ANNASAMY** » 05 Feb 2008, 10:08

11th stanza, in the first line, Guru (vyAzhan), seems, has been left. A word varai, though, does indicate/cover the same. Guru's guru himself is Natarajan?

sonna varai sariyE. paTTin varaiyaraiyaTRa kaRpanai nangu varaiyapaTTuLLadu. (whatever said is correct. Excellent imagination has been very well depicted.)

HE should have been termed as 'NATANA RAAJ'.

iDakkAlai thooki iDaiyaRAdu aaDUm
naTana vEndan vanda thillai;
kaDaikaN onDRu pOdumE thollaigaL
thoDarumO! kOLgaLum kumbiDumE.

-va-

sindhu · Post by **sindhu** » 05 Feb 2008, 12:48

VA
good observation & kavithai. Especially I liked the second line 'naTana vEndan vanda thillai (vandandu illai too).

sindhu · Post by **sindhu** » 06 Feb 2008, 12:58

This song by Munuswami mudaliyar is really good, having meaningful words. Is there any other creation by him. LJi may help.

chitrathiagarajan · Post by **chitrathiagarajan** » 06 Feb 2008, 15:14

I am looking for the lyrics of the kriti and the name of its composer:
ragam:purvikalyani
pallavi

jankAra stuti sekuvai jeeva veenaiyil
sankeethamrutham sekuvai jagadheeswaranai

a.pallavi

sankarasambasadaviva omkara????

Caranam is not available.
My mother used to sing this kriti.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 06 Feb 2008, 15:48

jhankAra shruti. rAgA: pUrvikalyANi. tALA: Adi. Composer: Shuddhananda Bharati.

P: jhankAra shruti sheiguvAi jIva viNaiyil sangItAmrtam peiguvAi jagadIshvaranE
A: shankara sAmba sadAshiva Omhara shambhuvena solli en janman kaDai tEravE
C1: pala palavennum kAlai pADum puLLoshai polum pArkkaDal uLam vimmi Arkkum garjanai pOlum
malargaLai konjivarum manda mArutam pOlum madu uNDa vanDinam vaLarkkum hrImkAram pOlum
2: taTa taTavenap-pozhi sapta mEghangaL pOlum maDa maDavena varum malai aruviyaip-pOlum
kaTa kaTavena sellum gagana lOkangaL pOlum naTamiDum silambuDan nartanam sheyya nAnum

chitrathiagarajan · Post by **chitrathiagarajan** » 06 Feb 2008, 23:13

Thank you Lakshaman sir.
I have one more query on krtis composed on Madurantaham Ramar.
Can you help sir?

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 06 Feb 2008, 23:34

I have no idea how to identify these kritis. Any clues / pointers are welcome.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 06 Feb 2008, 23:56

Regarding Maduranthankam Eri kAtta rAmar temple -
It is said there is an inscription in the garbha gRham (behind the Moolavar) which states 'yAnta bhAnta SAnta'.

These very words appear in the Thyagaraja Kriti 'rAma samayamu' rAga madhyamAvati (caraNa 1). It is not known whether there is any Thyagaraja connection to this temple. Please visit website to know the meaning of the insciption. http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/shak ... query.html

For lyrics and meanings - http://sahityam.net/wiki/Rama_Samayamu

chitrathiagarajan · Post by **chitrathiagarajan** » 07 Feb 2008, 00:11

Thanks very much vgvindan.

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 07 Feb 2008, 13:40

I have heard verses 1, 2, 3 and 10 sung as viruttams in concerts. Would it be too much to ask fellow members to undertake a translation exercise for this piece despite the number of verses?

chitrathiagarajan · Post by **chitrathiagarajan** » 07 Feb 2008, 22:34

chitrathiagarajan wrote:Thanks very much vgvindan.

Has anyone sung this kriti?
Can ou give me a link if so

chitrathiagarajan · Post by **chitrathiagarajan** » 09 Feb 2008, 07:53

what are snkriti kritis?
who is the composer?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Feb 2008, 10:22

A beautiful song!
Anantalakshmi Sadagopan has recorded jhankAra Sruti.
I haven't heard the last verse sung, though.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Feb 2008, 10:24

Prashant,
Ravi might have a go at the translation. You meant translation of this song, didn't you?

chitrathiagarajan · Post by **chitrathiagarajan** » 09 Feb 2008, 17:35

Arasi I want to know whether anyone has sung this Tyagaraja's kriti

Rama samayamu in madyamavati.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 09 Feb 2008, 19:08

prashant wrote:I have heard verses 1, 2, 3 and 10 sung as viruttams in concerts. Would it be too much to ask fellow members to undertake a translation exercise for this piece despite the number of verses?

Prashant,

I usually shy away from compositions that are not in simple tamizh, but this one has intrigued me, so I am going to set the ball rolling with the first verse:

maNNAdi bhUtamODu ( Natarajar Pathu) rAgamAlikA. Adi tALA.

1: maNNAdi bhUtamODu viNNAdi aNDam nI marai nAngin aDimuDiyum nI
matiyum nI raviyum nI punalum nI anaLum nI maNDalam iraNDEzhum nI
peNNum nI Anum nI palluyirkku uyirum nI piravum nI oruvan (maraNam)[1] nIyE
bhEdAtibhEdam nI pAdAdikEsham nI peTra tAi tandai nIyE
ponnum nI poruLum nI iruLum nI oLiyum nI bOdhikka vanda guru nI
pughazhONa giragangaL onbadum nI inda bhuvanangaL peTravanum nI
eNNariyA jIva kOTigaL Inra appanE en kuraigaL yArkkurippEn
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE

In this verse, the composer describes the omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscience of Siva. He say: You (nI) are the five elements (bhUtamODu) including, but not limited to the earth (maNNu Adi = maNNAdi), and the universe (aNDam), including, but not limited to the skies (viNNAdi). You are the also beginning and the end (aDimuDiyum) of the 4 (nAngu) vEdas (maRai). You (nI) are the moon (mad(t)i) and the sun (ravi). You are water (punal) and fire (anal). You are the 14 (iraNDu Ezhum = iraNDEzhum = 2X7 = 14) worlds/maNDalas. You (nI) are the female (peNN) and the male (AN) element, and the life force (uyir) of many (pala) beings (uyirgaL). You are birth (piravum) and you are also death (maraNam). You are the variance (bhEdam) of all variances (bhEdAdi), and you exist in every particle of my being: from my feet (pAdAdi) to hair (kESam). You are the mother (tAi) and father (tandai) who gave birth (peTra) to me. You are my wealth - gold (pon) and material (poruL). You are both the darkness (iruL) of death and destruction, and the light (oLi) of birth and creation. You are the guru that has come (vanda) to teach (bOdhikka). You are the famed (pugazhONA)[2] planets (giragangaL) nine in all (onbadum), and you are the creator (peTravan) of these (inda) worlds (bhuvanangaL)[3]. Oh father (appanE) who has given birth to/created (Inra) to countless (eNNariyA = eNNa+ariyA= not know - ariyA, to count - eNNa) lives (jIva kOTigaL)[4], to whom but you (yAr) can I enumerate (kurippEn) my (en) problems (kuraigaL)? Oh Lord (ISanE), consort/beloved (nESanE) of SivakAmasundarI, the resident (vAzh) of cidambaram (tillai), Oh naTarAjA, the one who created (Inra) me (enai).

I think the poet describes SivA as everything - both the yin and yang. However, that logic doesn't pervade every example. In the third line, I wonder if [1] oruvan - which means you are unique, should be maraNam or some other poetically appropriate word for death, to balance out the sentiment that precedes it. By the same logic, after calling Siva as the guru (dakSiNAmUrty comes to mind), it could have been balanced with Siva as the perfect student as well (the legend of svAmi malai).
[2] I am not sure what pugarzhONa means exactly.
[3] If someone can explain how aNDam, maNDalam, and bhuvanam differ in astrophysical terms, I would be much obliged. Or is this poetic exaggeration to drive the point home?
[4] eNNariyA, and kOTigaL - another example of using words that impart similar meanings.

I AM SURE THAT RAJANI AND ARASI will be able to do a better job with this.

meena · Post by **meena** » 10 Feb 2008, 00:05

shankar

Don't u worry, ur doing a SUPERB job! Many of us here appreciate it greatly. Just keep them coming buddy!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 10 Feb 2008, 00:27

Thanks Meena!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Feb 2008, 00:46

Ravi,
Great translation!

1. I think 'oruvan nI and piRa (all else) is you too' seems to fit.
2. Could it be 'pugazhOnga' = praiseworthy?

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 10 Feb 2008, 09:10

Fantastic Ravi - what a great start. I am transcribing in my music notebook as you translate, so this is REALLY helpful. Thank you again!

Rajani · Post by **Rajani** » 10 Feb 2008, 15:02

Ravi, this is really beautiful. My 2cs :

pugazh + ONA = That which can't be praised (enough)

aNDam, bhuvana and maNDalam would be universe, world and circle(ie group) respectively. Corrections welcome, of course.

Also, the penultimate line would have yArkkuraippEn
yArkku+uraippEn(to whom can I tell)

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 11 Feb 2008, 01:11

Thanks, Arasi, Rajani, Prashant and Meena.

chitrathiagarajan · Post by **chitrathiagarajan** » 11 Feb 2008, 07:35

I have been following the discussions on the tamizh lyric.
Can't we have the lyrics in tamizh font so that it is easy to read?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 11 Feb 2008, 07:45

Well, since there were no major goof ups with the first one, here is my attempt at the second verse. As usual, I call on Arasi and Rajani to help out, and fix mistakes.

2: mAnADa mazhuvADa matiyADa punalADa mangai shivakAmi ADa mAlADa nUlADa maraiyADa tiraiyADa maRAi tanda brahmanADa kOnADa vAnulagu kUDa mELam ADa kunjara mukhattAnADa kuNDalam iraNDADa taNDai puliyuDaiyADa kuzhandai murugEsanADa jnAnasambandarODu indirAdi padineTTu muni aTTapAlakarumADA bAlakanumADa nirai tumbai arugADa nandi vAhanamADa nATTiya peNgaLADa vinai ODa unai pADa enai nADi iduvELai erudODu ADi varuvAi IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tilla vAzh naTarAjanE

In this verse, the composer describes to the Lord how the whole world (animate and inanimate) dances in unison with him as he dances the Ananda tANDavam. He says:

As you dance, the deer (mAn) you hold in one of your hands moves (ADa), and so does the battle-axe (mazhuvu) you hold in the other hand. And the moon (mad(t)i) and the ganges (punal) you bear on your matted locks also dance (ADa). As you dance the tANDava, your consort (mangai â€“ literally means â€˜womanâ€™) SivakAmi dances (ADa) the lAsya. Not to be left out, vishNU (mAl), and the creator of the vEdAs (maRai tanda â€“ literally the one who gave the maRai/vEdAs), brahmA also dance (ADa). The vEdAs and literary works (nUl) also dance in unison, as does the earth (tirai), and the emperors (kO) that rule on it. And to watch this wondrous sight, residents of the firmament (vAnulagu) gather (kUDa). Drums (mELam) dance to keep time, and the elephant (kunjara) faced (mukhattAn) ganESa dances along. The two (iranDu) earrings (kunDalam) sway with your movements, and the anklet (taNDai), and the garment (uDai) from the skin of the tiger (puli) you wear also move (ADa) with your movements, and watching this, the little one (kuzhandai) murugan (murugESan) joins in. Along with nyAnasambandar (one of the 63 Saivaite saints), indra and his gods (indrAdi), the 18 (padineTTu) [1] sages (muni), and the guardians/keepers (pAlakar) of the eight (aTTa) directions dance along. The dwarf (bAlakan), muyalakan on whom you dance, moves with your steps, as do the tumbai flowers (nirai tumbai) and the arugu grass (arugu) you wear. Dancing girls (probably celestial dancers rambhA, tilOttama, mEnakA, and UrvaSI - nATTiya peNgaL) dance and so does your mount (vAhanam), nandI. And as I sing (pADa) your (unai) praises, amazingly, my problems (vinai) run away/disappear (ODa). So, at this (idu) time (vELai) please seek (nADi) me (enai), and come (varuvAi) to me atop/along with (ODu) your bull (erudu) â€“ Oh Lord (ISanE), consort/beloved (nESanE) of SivakAmasundarI, the resident (vAzh) of cidambaram (tillai), Oh naTarAjA, the one who created (Inra) me (enai).

[1] Can anyone explain the 18 sages being referred to here?

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 11 Feb 2008, 09:26

A Sanjay specialty, this verse...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Feb 2008, 09:47

Super translation, Ravi! If you were to spend the same amount of time with us donning your white coat, I don't think we could afford to pay for your time, doc

tirai=sea (also wave, and so, a body of water with waves).

V_ANNASAMY · Post by **V_ANNASAMY** » 11 Feb 2008, 10:51

Manu, Parasara, Yajnavalkya, Gautama, Harita, Yama, Visnu, Sankha, Likhita, Brhaspati, Daksa, Angiras, Pracetas, Samvarta, Acanas, Atri, Apastamba and Satatapa are the eighteen sages who mastered the Vedas with their superhuman power and derived the Smrtis from them. Their works are known after them like Manusmrti, Yajnavalkya-smrti, Parasara-Smrti and so on, and they contain all that we need to know about all the dharmas to be adhered to and all the rituals to be performed during our entire life.

- Source kamakoti.org -

meena · Post by **meena** » 11 Feb 2008, 10:55

shankar

could it be The 18 siddhas???

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 11 Feb 2008, 19:15

Ravi - your translation makes the words come alive. Awesome work.

Could I request Lakshman Sir to post the actual pages / notation of the book these words have been taken from? That way the words being discussed by rshankar / arasi / Rajani in Verse 1 could be clarified...? Thanks.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 11 Feb 2008, 19:16

Thanks V_Annasamy and Arasi. Meena provided me with the names of the 18 siddhAs. I think the 18 referred to is likely to be them.

I used 'earth' for tirai, because the next referrence was to kOmAn....

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Feb 2008, 03:03

Here is verse # 3. This one was much more of a challenge interpreting.
If anyone has alternate explanations, please share!
Arasi/Rajani - please correct/elaborate as needed.

Prashant, the words that are alive are not mine, but the composer's. Mine are merely reflections (I have to be true to the philosophy of my namesake, and of course, the pun was irresistible

)

3: kaDal enra bhuvi mIdil alai enra uru koNDa kanavenra vAzhvai nambi
kATrena mUvAshai mAruta shuzhalinilE kaTTuNDu nitta nittam
uDal enra kumbikku uNavenra irai tEDi OyAmal iravu paghalum
uNDu uranguvadai kaNDadE allAdu oru payanum aDaindilEnE
taTam enra midi karaiyil bandha pAshangaL ennum tAparam pinnaliTTu
tAyenru shEi enru nI enru nAn enru tamiyennai ivvaNNamAi
iDai enru kaDai ninru Enenru kETkAdiruppadu un azhagAgumO
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE

Atop/in (mIdil) this sea of life (bhav sAgar â€“ kaDal enra bhuvi), trusting (nambi) this life (vAzhvai) which is as ephemeral as a wave (alai enra uru koNDa â€“ taking the form of a wave), and as illusory as a dream (kanavenra), it is unfortunate that the 3 banes of our existence (muvAshai = 3 desires/vices) [1] that sweep us along in a whirl (SuzhalinilE) of strong (kaTTunDa) winds (mAruta) become the very basis/breath (KATrena) of our daily (nitta nittam) lives. Other than (allAdu) having tirelessly (OyAmal) nourished (irai) this bottomless pit/belly/stomach (kumbikku) I call body (uDal) with food (uNavu tEDi), and having mis-spent my days (pagal) and nights (iravu) eating (uNDu) and sleeping (uranguvadu) I realize (kanDadE) that I have not gained (aDaindilEnE) any other (oru) useful benefit (payanum). Standing (ninru) at the end (kaDai) on the steps (midik-karayil) on the banks (taTam) of this sea of misery we call life, will it be appropriate/fitting (azhagAgumO) for you (unakku) to not urge/ask (kETkAdiruppadu) me (tamiyEnai) thus (ivvaNNamAi): Why have you not (En) left behind/given up (pinnaliTTu) the distressing (tAparam) ties (bandham) of attachment (pASangaL), and your ego [considerations of being a mother (tAyenru), child (Seiyenru), you (nIyenru), or I (nAnenru)]?

[1] muvASai â€“ the three (mu = 3) desires (ASai) are maN (desire for property/real estate), peN (literally means woman/girl â€“ refers to the desire to satiate lust), and pon (gold â€“ desire for material wealth).

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Feb 2008, 11:05

kaTTuNDU=being bound , imprisoned in the eddy (Suzhal)
tAparam=tuNai, worldly relationships--being knitted into them (pinnaliTTU)
tamiyan=tanittavan, the loner that I am
nAnenRu, nIyenRu=(still about the human bondage) you, me and such

Rajani · Post by **Rajani** » 12 Feb 2008, 15:32

Ravi , I think "Enenru kETpadu" is an idiom which means "taking interest or responding" and so "Enenru kETkAdiruppadum azhagAgumO" would just mean "not bothering or responding - does that behove you?"

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Feb 2008, 19:08

This is the CORRECTED version with the inputs from Arasi and Rajan incorporatedi:

3: kaDal enra bhuvi mIdil alai enra uru koNDa kanavenra vAzhvai nambi
kATrena mUvAshai mAruta shuzhalinilE kaTTuNDu nitta nittam
uDal enra kumbikku uNavenra irai tEDi OyAmal iravu paghalum
uNDu uranguvadai kaNDadE allAdu oru payanum aDaindilEnE
taTam enra midi karaiyil bandha pAshangaL ennum tAparam pinnaliTTu
tAyenru shEi enru nI enru nAn enru tamiyennai ivvaNNamAi
iDai enru kaDai ninru Enenru kETkAdiruppadu un azhagAgumO
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE enai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE

Atop/in (mIdil) this sea of life (bhav sAgar â€“ kaDal enra bhuvi), trusting (nambi) this life (vAzhvai) which is as ephemeral as a wave (alai enra uru koNDa â€“ taking the form of a wave), and as illusory as a dream (kanavenra), it is unfortunate that we are forever (nittam) enslaved/bound (kATTunDu) by the 3 banes of our existence (muvAshai = 3 desires/vices) [1] which are like the eddies/swirls (SuzhalinilE) of strong winds (mAruta). Other than (allAdu) having tirelessly (OyAmal) nourished (irai) this bottomless pit/belly/stomach (kumbikku) I call my body (uDal) with food (uNavu tEDi), and having mis-spent my days (pagal) and nights (iravu) eating (uNDu) and sleeping (uranguvadu) I realize (kanDadE) that I have not gained (aDaindilEnE) any other (oru) useful benefit (payanum). As I stand (ninru) all alone (tamiyan) on the steps (midik-karayil) of the banks (taTam) amidst (iDai) this sea of misery we call life, with my life intricately bound/braided (pinnaliTTu) to the distressing ties (bandham) of attachment (pASangaL), and grappling with worldly relationships (tAparam) involving parents (tAi â€“ mother), children (Seienru), 'you' (nI enru) and 'I' (nAn enru), is it appropriate (azhagAgumO) for you [Oh Lord (ISanE), consort/beloved (nESanE) of SivakAmasundarI, the resident (vAzh) of cidambaram (tillai), Oh naTarAjA, the one who created (Inra) me (enai)] who stand (ninru) at the END (kaDai) â€“ the priceless prize at the end of our existence - to not even bother to check on me/take an interest in me (Enernu kETkAdiruppadu)?

[1] muvASai â€“ the three (mu = 3) desires (ASai) are maN (desire for property/real estate), peN (literally means woman/girl â€“ refers to the desire to satiate lust), and pon (gold â€“ desire for material wealth).

Arasi/Rajani - THANK YOU!

Ravi

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 15 Feb 2008, 07:12

Haven't been able to post for the last few days [problem with forms on my work computer[ but great to see the 3rd verse translated. Thanks again to Ravi / arasi / Rajani and looking forward to further verses.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 17 Feb 2008, 05:36

OK, Prashant, here is my attempt at the 4th verse. There seems to be an exponential progression in the degree of difficulty with these verses!

I may have messed this one up completely...Hopefully, Rajani and Arasi will be able to fix the goof ups.

pambu shUnyamalla vaippalla mAranattambanam vasiyamalla pAtALa vancanam parakAya pravEsha maduvallai jAlamalla ambu guNDugaL vilaga azhiyum mandiramalla AgAya kuLikaiyalla anbODu sheiginra vAtAmODigaL alla ariya mOhamum alla kumbha muni macca muni shaTTa muni brahma riSi konganar pulipANiyum korakkar vaLLuvar bhOga muni ivarellAm kUriDum vaidyamalla en manadu unnaDi viTTu nIngAda nilai nirkka Edu ena pugala varuvAi 
IshanE shivakAmi nEshanE ennai Inra tillai vAzh naTarAjanE

In this verse the composer is imploring Lord Siva to enlighten him so that he (the poet) can remain at Sivaâ€™s feet forever without having to resort to magic and chicanery.

He says: This is not (alla) illusory, unsubstantial or unreal (pAmbuSuniyam), nor is it a buried treasure (vaippu alla) for which I need a map. It is not a dark art [1], like mAraNam (the art of causing one's death by incantation)[2], tambaNam (magic art of paralyzing a person's activity)[3] or vaSIkaram (art of subjugation by magic) [4]. It is also not a deceitful way (van(j)canam) of denying hell (pAtALam) itâ€™s rightful share. It certainly is not (allai) the secret knowledge (madu) of entering (pravESa) anotherâ€™s (para) body (kAya) [5]. It is not (alla) the secret mantra (mandiram) that removes/destroys (vilaga azhiyum) arrows (ambu) and bombs (guNDugaL). It is not (alla) a magical pill (kuLikai) that fell from heaven (Ak(g)Aya) [6]. It is not (alla) the result of arrogant (mODigaL) torments (vAtA) that arise from love (anboDu Seiginra). It is not magic art of fascinating a person (mOhamum) [7] that one is aware of (ariya). It is not (alla) the treatment (vaidiyam) as advised/said (kUriDum) by many, many, many (ivarellAm), sages and learned men (kumbha muni â€“ aka agastiyar, macca muni is another sage who authored several medical treatises, brahma riSi is probably vaSishiTa, konganar pulipANiyum korakkar â€“ no clue, vaLLuvar, bhOga muni I think is a sculptor). All I want is for you (Oh Lord (ISanE), the consort/beloved (nESanE) of SivakAmI, the resident (vAzh) deity of cidambaram (tillai), Lord natarAja who created (Inra) me (ennai)) to come to me (varuvAi) and tell me (pugala) the all the details (Edu ena) about keeping my (en) mind/heart (manadu) fixed (nirka) in a state (nilai) of being permanently at your (un) feet (aDi) without drifting (viTTu nIngAda) away.

[1] the aSTa karmangaL â€“ 8 bad practices:
sthambhaNam  - magic art of paralyzing a person's activity
mOhanam â€“ magic art of fascinating a person
 AkarshNam  - the art of attracting a person by magic
vidhvEshaNam  - the art of destroying a person by magic
vasIkaraNam â€“ art of subjugation by magic
bhEdanam â€“ the art of creating a separation/difference of opinion between people
 mAraNam  - the art of causing one's death by incantation
uccATaNam - magic art of driving away, causing a person to quit his place

This verse made me feel like I had wandered into the world of J.K. Rowling and Harry Potter! For example: [2] the unforgivable curse avada kedavra, [3] the spell immobilus, [4] one of Snapeâ€™s potions to ensnare the mind, [5] the polyjuice potion, [6] phoenix tears, and [7] a love potion!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Feb 2008, 11:30

Ravi,
Had to laugh out aloud when you brought in Harry Potter! Great job as usual. I wouldn't have touched this verse with a ten foot pole. Prashant's zeal for meaning and yours for giving them is always impressive.
Prashant, after reading the meaning, you might not want to include it in your singing!

tambanam (no N there)= stambanam to stun, turn one into a pillar of stone, petrify
mOhanam=casting a spell of enchantment. Go to Bewitched from Harry Potter!
AkarshaNam=nearly the same meaning--to allure
vidvEshaNam=to cause enemity by magic
mAraNam=to destroy by incantations
uccATanam=to alienate. Incidentally, uccATanam is also one of the 64 kalaigaL (arts)-in a different sense, of course.
konganR=SEran
pulipANi=bOgar's SishyA
bOgar?? here is the intersting story!
bOgar was a buddhist from China who stayed in pATaliputrA and GayA and spent a long time in tamizh nADu. Exchanged knowledge with the locals. A SishyA of his compiled his guru's knowledge in medicine and wrote bOgar nUL. bOgar returned to China with a few tamizh disciples. Chinese cittar (not checkers!).
There is also this unbelievable story of a COLA sculptor dying before he could divluge into the secrets of hoisting (?) the bruhadISvarA temple tower, and also the way to get at the treasure hidden
in the nAgappaTTinam temple's silver tower. On hearing what should be done from a SishyA of bOgar, a tamizh SIDan traveled back to cOzha nADu and informed the king. Success! BruhadISvarA temple still stands.The king spent the treasure from the silver tower in adding on to the Srirangam temple!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Feb 2008, 20:37

Just a medical note. All these siddhas are wellknown names in siddha vaidyam. BOgar is a highly respected name. His sishya was one thErayar who invented an ointment which when applied would render the skin transparent so that the internal organs can be seen and diagnosed. Story goes that 'thErayar (don't know his poorvaashrama name) found a 'thErai' (rock frog) hidden in the womb of a woman by using his ointment and hence got that name. How nice it would be to have the ointment available so that we can avoid unnnecessary exposure to radiation! Many of the secrets and remedies are still there to be discovered though they are jealously guarded. All stories are not just legends. Most recently my son who is a reputed dermatologist mentioned that he had givenup on a Srilankan patient with advanced psoriasis (no known cure !); but then he went to Srilanka and aftter 6 months when he came back he was totally cured. He had visited a siddha in a cave who treated him with herbs! How nice it will be for humanity if these remedies are made availble (though I am sure the vultures in the pharmaceutical industry will grab them (patent them) and bankrupt our health system including the clients!

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 18 Feb 2008, 00:27

The third stanza of natarAjar pattu , kaDal enRa........, has been beautifully sung in rAgamAlika ( kalyANi, karaharapriya, behAg & surati ) by late great MD RamanAthan. I got this rendition from the internet through the courtesy of one of our contributors, whose identity I do not remember. It may still be available in sangeethapriya.org.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 18 Feb 2008, 00:46

Arasi,

Thanks for the aSTha karma details. I went with what I recalled.

The details about the different siddhas was very informative.

Ravi

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 18 Feb 2008, 00:50

cmlover wrote:Just a medical note. All these siddhas are wellknown names in siddha vaidyam. BOgar is a highly respected name. His sishya was one thErayar who invented an ointment which when applied would render the skin transparent so that the internal organs can be seen and diagnosed. Story goes that 'thErayar (don't know his poorvaashrama name) found a 'thErai' (rock frog) hidden in the womb of a woman by using his ointment and hence got that name. How nice it would be to have the ointment available so that we can avoid unnnecessary exposure to radiation! Many of the secrets and remedies are still there to be discovered though they are jealously guarded. All stories are not just legends. Most recently my son who is a reputed dermatologist mentioned that he had givenup on a Srilankan patient with advanced psoriasis (no known cure !); but then he went to Srilanka and aftter 6 months when he came back he was totally cured. He had visited a siddha in a cave who treated him with herbs! How nice it will be for humanity if these remedies are made availble (though I am sure the vultures in the pharmaceutical industry will grab them (patent them) and bankrupt our health system including the clients!

CML-ji,

How I wish I could visit that cave! ... I do visit a reputed derm (and another reputed rheumy) in a reputed corporate hospital in chennai in connection with my P/PA...one of them could be your son?

Sri

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 18 Feb 2008, 12:26

arasi: definitely some verses are more 'musical' than the others

. But it is interesting to read these verses and I am learning a lot from all your contributions towards painstakingly translating this.

rshankar: I owe you some Butterbeer for this effort!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 18 Feb 2008, 19:25

prashant wrote:rshankar: I owe you some Butterbeer for this effort!

Just 'some'?:P

Prashant, you'll have to wait for another week or so before I can take another of these verses on! Unless Arasi or Rajani have a go at it!

meena · Post by **meena** » 20 Feb 2008, 02:08

rshankar: I owe you some Butterbeer for this effort!

JK will be mighty pleased to learn we also have a Harry Potter book club

Prashant
While shankar takes a small break, we would like to hear u render the 3 verses for us