A Second Opinion Please!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 14 Mar 2008, 07:53

Here is a song that I just heard from the site on Ayyapa referred by VK RAMAN:
http://ayyappan-ldc.com/RAM/tvs/malaivalar.ram

Please liisten and tell me the raga.

I am getting it as S G3 M2 P N2 S'-S' N2 P M2 G3 R2 S
which is shuddha saaranga a derivative of the 62 melakartha rishhabhapriyaa.

Please confirm or clarify. I also note that the tonic is G# which may perhaps help.....

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 14 Mar 2008, 23:27

I think you got it right. But I am not 100% sure if I am right in that you got it right

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 15 Mar 2008, 03:23

Thanks Arun!
I thought I got it right and if you think I got it right then sure I got it right but if you doubt that your thinking that I got it right may not be right then I am not sure that I got it right! Right ?

balusatya · Post by **balusatya** » 15 Mar 2008, 07:40

When did Visu-Film Director join our forum?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 15 Mar 2008, 08:02

actually it is not just visu but
a cross of visu
and
the secretary (humphrey) in the yes minister series.
nice to see padren appearing after a long break !!

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 15 Mar 2008, 08:39

need not go to visu or humphrey, hear a coversation between 90%deaf gobilalitha and his wife, lalitha's Question' when does the kutcheri start today? GBL's reply the vella adai was good in y'day's karadian nombu. the conversation goes on like this for half an hour gobilalitha

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 15 Mar 2008, 08:53

Ha! KaaraDian nOnbu..
As my wife was praying 'urugaatha veNNayum OraDayum naan paDaiththen, orunaaLuM en kaNavan enai piriyaathu irukka veNDuM..' I was forbidden to eat the vella aDai but was given instead the one sweetened with 'splenda' (artificial sweetener)!
Better to be deaf than be a diabetic

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 15 Mar 2008, 09:30

the prayer is touching. Iam both, diabetic as well as deaf .the vella adai was rationed gobilalitha

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 15 Mar 2008, 21:01

We did not even know that such a holy occasion "nOnbu" took place and you both were blessed that way although one missed the sweetended adai and the other kissed the artificially sweetened adai. I am happy, I am alive and thankful.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 15 Mar 2008, 21:19

VK RAMAN
You should try to sing that Ayyappa song that I have posted above (courtesy of you).
it is sweet (sweeter than vella aDai

and such a beautiful raga...

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 15 Mar 2008, 23:23

I like to have the lyrics for "malai valar". I will give it a shot. Lakshman - Lyrics Treasury - Can you please help me on this.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 17 Mar 2008, 19:15

Tha raga sounds like hindustani madhukauns. In KM I think it is is called sUryA.

Corrections invited:

P: malai vaLar maNiyE maNIkaNThA en vinai tanai ninaindE nI irangAyO
A: alaigaLaiyAi varum mAya vinai aghaTri aNai aNaiyAi varum piravikku nI tIrkkum
C: kalaimaghaL yAzh tanai madhura tAlATTisaikka alaimaghaL malai maghaL Unjal tanai asikka
talai maghan unnai AramudE ayyappA shilai azahagA unnai undi aDaittiDum

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 17 Mar 2008, 19:28

Some corrections:

ap: alaigaLAi varum
c: ......Unjal tanai aSaikka...

No clue what 'undi aDaittiDum' means...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 17 Mar 2008, 19:37

Lji,

IIRC surya/sallapam does not have R2. To me this one seems to have it.

also aghaTri => agaTri
piravi => piRavi
maghaL/maghan => magaL/magan

Arun

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 17 Mar 2008, 19:49

Thanks arunk and rshankar.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2008, 20:32

Thanks very much Lakshman/Shankar/Arun

Now the ball is in VK Raman's court

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 18 Mar 2008, 00:01

lji,

A couple more:

1. I think it is alaiyalaiyAi (alai+alaiyAi i.e like wave after wave)
2. azahagA unnai undi => azhagan unnai konji. The last word of that line still doesnt make sense. Thought it was aDaindiDum but still doesnt make full sense.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2008, 01:04

Folks I think it could be
azhagA unnai aNDi aDaindiDuM = you beautiful one, reaching close to you....
(aNDi of course has been written as uNDi..)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2008, 01:21

After listening carefully I get
P: malai vaLar maNiyE maNIkaNThA en vinai tanai ninaindE nI irangAyO
A: alai aLai yAi varum mAya vinai aghaTri aNai aNai yAi varum piravi piNI
tIrkkum
C: kalaimaghaL yAzh tanai madhura tAlATTisaikka alaimaghaL malai maghaL Unjal
tanai asaikka
talai maghan unnai AramudE ayyappA shilai azahagA unnai konji aDaintiDum

which makes sense!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Mar 2008, 01:32

aNi aNiyAy varum=coming one after another like a battalion

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2008, 04:36

That sounds right!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 18 Mar 2008, 05:44

Thank you cmlover. Very thoughful of you to capture the words. I will let you know whenever I upload rendition. I like the raagam. Meantime, you may like to listen my upload yAdavA nI bA - Revathi.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 18 Mar 2008, 05:48

arasi if you listen to what she sings between 1:10 and 1:15, it seems to me that she is clearly saying "alai alaiyAy"

Arun

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Mar 2008, 06:57

Yes, Arun. I hear it as alai alaiyAi. But how many alais?
A few others:
should be yAzhtanil, not yAzhtanai.
I hear 'piRai azhagan (SivA) where it is Silai azhagan (after all, malai magaL is mentioned)...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 18 Mar 2008, 07:13

duh

! Never mind, I thought you were saying aNi aNiyAy for alai alayAy - :rolleyes:

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 18 Mar 2008, 07:26

I feel left out. I can not play that .ram file because I do not have real player stuff ( I have a strong dislike for any Realplayer stuff ). I have some real alternatives but somehow that does not work with this .ram file. I do not know how any of you can help me with this ( other than asking me install the darn real player ) but I thought I will air it here anyway just in case there is a way.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2008, 07:37

Too bad VK! I have the dBpower which can convert to ram file but not the otherway around! Maybe AruN can help.

Incidentally I note that the shuddasarang without the rishabha is the prati madyama version of raga sAvitri which is what TNS termed as the raga for kaatrinile varum geetham that we had discussed long ago....

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 18 Mar 2008, 07:50

nope. Just get it vk - its free

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Mar 2008, 08:56

Sorry, VK. You know how it is with me: kuruTTup pUnai viTTAttil pAyvadu pOL (as the blind cat just pounces on the crossbar on the ceiling), I simply stumble upon things. I have many moments when I draw a blank because of my ignorance about technology. I had only looked at the lyrics until Arun suggested I hear the song. I didn't know if it would work for me, but it did.
When wizards like you have trouble, I suppose it is because bells and whistles come in new versions ever so often...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 18 Mar 2008, 09:11

Thanks folks. I dodged the bullet again with realplayer. I saved the .ram file and opened it with the versatile vlcplayer and it played it.

It sounds quite exotic. Very nice. Though it is not close to madhuvanthi ( Ga and Ni being different ), it has similar aesthetics to Madhuvanthi with a bit sadder or more 'pleading' type of feeling. I enjoyed listening to it.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 18 Mar 2008, 14:28

if it is madhukauns , the carnatic equivalent is sumanesaranjani.requiring correction,if necessary gobilalitha

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 18 Mar 2008, 21:38

Actually based on http://www.carnatica.net/queryinquiry.htm (see question "What is the similarity between Madhuvanti and Madhukauns?") - I think we can eliminate madhukauns - which would have sadharana-gandhara. This one clearly does not use G2.

gbl sir - according to that page (and other info) sumanesaranjani uses both ma's but is indeed close(st) to madhukauns.

Arun

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 18 Mar 2008, 22:03

The artist K.M.Soundaravalli lives somewhere in Mandavalli. Someone in Chennai can contact her and ascertain the name of the raga. This would solve the problem.

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 18 Mar 2008, 22:43

yeah, this confusion is causing too much manda vali

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 18 Mar 2008, 22:58

'mandvali ' pOganNm enrAl 'Mandavalli' kku pOgaNum
AnAl
'Mandavalli'kku pOnalum 'mandavali' pOgumA?-theriyAdu

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Mar 2008, 00:03

manda mathii maandarukku mandaveLi pOnAlum
mandamathu mARAthu g~naanappeNNE
Sontha mathi maandarudan SeruM vagai kaNDu koNDAl
chinthai nalamaakumaDi g~naanappeNNE

(we cannot always assume that a singer always knows the raga that they sing

Once a famous nadasvaram player played an inspired tune and the audience were spell bound! When he finally finished one among them asked him:
nI^Nga enna raagam vaaSitthI^Nga ? (what raga did you play?)
The vidvaan smiled and asked back:
u^NgaLukku piDicchirunthathaa ? (Did you like it ?)
The person replied:
roMba (a lot)
The vidvaan smiled and responded:
avvaLuvu thaan (That is all!)

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 19 Mar 2008, 03:46

CML, that was a good one!
A raga, by any name, sounds as sweet!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Mar 2008, 04:54

With respect to raga name:

cml, arun; Are the Aro/Ava that CML provided something we can go by? Are we still at a loss on the raga name? Is that because it does not match any known raga or we are not sure about the Aro/Ava?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Mar 2008, 05:02

For me AruN is the ultimate arbiter !
Even if we knew all the notes used, we still can't get a fix on the name since there are multiple choices. But I find it enchanting and would love to hear rendered by VK RAMAN...
Also any songs in a similar 'tune'

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 19 Mar 2008, 07:36

ippaDi vambila mATTi viDarELE! (New flash: That SivaSakthi episode was fluke! I was somehow "sort of on" then

). I need to listen again but a more reliable arbiter may be Uday

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Mar 2008, 09:40

Uday is the super ultimate arbiter! Especially when there is a controversy..
But you are reliable, accessible and 'polite'

and logical as well as easy to follow...