Jayachamaraja Odeyar (Mysore Maharajah) - Part II

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 19 Mar 2006, 23:03

DRS,

It is from a program called vinyasa but not sure of the year. But Dr. Nagamani Srinath repeated the performance during the last year birtday program of oDeyar conducted by University of Mysore. But the video recording of this program also has poor audio quality. I will try to procure the sahitya during my next visit to mysore ( tomorrow !) and share with you folks if i get lucky !

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Mar 2006, 23:43

Thanks DRS

So finally our discussion is sensible and stands

The prostrations to kali will make more sense from the way the swamiji of Datta peeTham discusses it
http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/bhakt ... nov99.html
RC
Were there any connections between the swamiji and JC?
Incidentally the Bengalis do conceive of kali as the violent destructive manifestation of shakti (kALI) herself!

If we interpret Manu literally the meaning of brahma as we have discussed is appropriate. But,
Manu is also used as a paryaaya for the number fourteen. The reference may be to the caturdashAraM (fourteen triangles)in the Sricakra. Refer
vrittatraya dharaNItraya manvashrANAM vibhajya gaNanEna..
(SrivarivasyA rahasyam Verse 40)
here 'manu' is used to distinctly indicate 14)
Accordingly
manUnAm kavayE could be interpreted as 'to you the wise one of the fourteen (kONas of the Sri cakra)'
Thanks RC for the insight!

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 20 Mar 2006, 00:10

RC
Were there any connections between the swamiji and JC?

Most unlikely. Origin of Swamiji is little shrouded in mystery. He is supposed to have been a postman before he metamorphoses to a spiritual leader.

I studied in Mysore between 1967-74 and did not know of his presence or fame then!

Any was by the time Swamiji attained this status HH had already attained eternal bliss!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Mar 2006, 01:35

Thanks DRS

So finally our discussion is sensible and stands

The prostrations to kali will make more sense from the way the swamiji of Datta peeTham discusses it
http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/bhakt ... nov99.html
RC
Were there any connections between the swamiji and JC?
Incidentally the Bengalis do conceive of kali as the violent destructive manifestation of shakti (kALI) herself!

This is clutching at straws.

Considering kali as a destructive/reforming manifestation of Sakti is fine- even for Non-Bengalis BUT it will not fit THIS kRti. This is what I have said earlier.

If we interpret Manu literally the meaning of brahma as we have discussed is appropriate. But,
Manu is also used as a paryaaya for the number fourteen. The reference may be to the caturdashAraM (fourteen triangles)in the Sricakra. Refer
vrittatraya dharaNItraya manvashrANAM vibhajya gaNanEna..
(SrivarivasyA rahasyam Verse 40)
here 'manu' is used to distinctly indicate 14)
Accordingly
manUnAm kavayE could be interpreted as 'to you the wise one of the fourteen (kONas of the Sri cakra)'
Thanks RC for the insight!

There is absolutely no other indication in the kRti toward it being connected to the sakala saubhAgyadAyaka cakra except for the sole word manu. While it is entirely possible, it seems improbable. I am still disturbed by the apparent change of vibhakti.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Mar 2006, 01:56

DRS

seems like becoming an obsession

As a vaggeyakara you expect a grammatical/cultural pattern which may not be consistently followed by other vaggeyakaras. I am looking simply from a sanskrit grammatical pov and do not see any conflicts. At this point in time we cannot read JC's mind. We can only try to interpret it our way. Though truth is ONE it is multifaceted depending on the colour of the glass you wear! Einsteins Theory of Relativity has equal sway in Moral and Philosophical fields too!

Let us move on!

I certainly would love to discuss the raga/ragini concepts elsewhere from a clinical/psychosocial/cultural/musical/historical perspective!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 21 Mar 2006, 06:23

RC
the madhukauns bit by Nagmani Srinath was mind blowing !!
a Big thanks..

murthyhmg · Post by **murthyhmg** » 22 Mar 2006, 18:53

I am somewhat new to this forum. Zero technical knowledge of music. I have been following some parts of this thread, with all hte sub-subjects with great interest. Sometime back drshrikaanth had reqeusted 'mummurtulu gumiguDi' of Tyagaraja from Coolkarni. The good Mr.Kulkarni has many demands to fulfil. I wonder how he finds time to do all these wonderful things. The link appears below. Great piece - 20 minutes. If any of you save in a format other than mp3-64 kbps, please see the ID tags before converting. I request someone to post the translation of the kriti in english. You guys have maintained high standards in this forum. But it saddens me to see that the best of Coolkarni postings are downloaded only 30-40 times.

http://rapidshare.de/files/16132233/San ... a.mp3.html

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 22 Mar 2006, 19:41

murthy
Welcome and have a nice journey through the forum and thread.
thanks for the elaborate mummUrtulu. For the meaning, try posting under sAhitya requests. Our telugu friends will help you out with meaning.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 22 Mar 2006, 19:55

murthy..
actually I consider 30-40 hits a very satisfactory response.
the figure may look low but one will have to consider the fact that all members may not be interested in all the threads.So it may not be the same 40 members everytime.
many times even I upload when the subject under discussion is well over my head -only in the hope that the tracks may find use in the particular context.
this apart , I take great satisfaction from the efforts of people who respond magnificently to keep up the tempo here.
Just imagine
a member yesterday asked for my address to ship Bangalore Sankars Recordings to me..
Last week, another member ,barely hours after touching down from a flight from New Zealand , dropped in to give me a wonderful tape of Jugalbandi(CM-HM Vocal ) recorded years earlier when they were in Delhi.

Yet another great soul (a cancer specialist )who works tirelessly for the treatment for members from the underprivileged sections of society -and who acknowledges that he goes to bed every night with a terrible sense of failure and that a dose of MS's music in the morning plus a visit to this forum is what recharges him for another day of battle.

The list is big..

So there is a lot happening out here , behind the scenes .So send your blues away..

As to how i find time for all these ....
I have been blessed with a situation where I have my Home on the first floor and my Small business Enterprise on the Ground Floor , and 24 hours in day to share between the two .
And ofcourse I should mention the formidable Back up team that works on the recordings /conversions / acquistions... all enthused by the activities in this forum.

Sorry for the Digression DRS..

meena · Post by **meena** » 22 Mar 2006, 22:52

Deleted

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 23 Mar 2006, 00:30

Thank you meena! DRS/CML/cool take over.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2006, 02:06

|| sadASivamupAsmahE ||

rAga: sarasAngi ; caturaSratripuTa tALa

sadASivamupAsmahE satatam |
sadA SivAsahitam amaravinutam ||P||

sadguru rUpadharam Sankaram |
sadAbhIShTadAnaparam sarasAngyardhanArISvaram ||AP||

aparOkSha suj~nAnadAyakam |
ariShaDvarga madadhvamsakam |
agajAtmaka guhajanakam |
amartyanagara samrakShakam |
japatapAdi niShThAntaHkaraNa vyaktarUpa japAkusuma dhArakam |
jagatpratipAdita nijarUpaM jagadAnandakara tryambakam ||C||

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2006, 04:06

Notes on || sadASivamupAsmahE ||

rAga: sarasAngi ; caturaSratripuTa tALa (Adi)

sadASivam upAsmahE- I worship sadASiva; satatam- ever;
sadA SivAsahitam- Him Who is always with pArvati;
amaravinutam- Him praised by the immortals.

sadguru rUpadharam- Him Who is in the form of the venerable guru; Sankaram;
sadA abhIShTa dAnaparam- Him Who is always involved in granting desired fruits;
sarasAngyardhanArISvaram- the ardhanArISvara(embodiment of both the male and female qualities) Who has sarasAngi pArvati as one half of His body.

aparOkSha suj~nAnadAyakam- Him Who bestows knowledge(in a form that is reachable & understnadable);
ariShaDvarga madadhvamsakam- Him that destroys the intoxication of the 6 enemies:- kAma, krOdha, lObha, mOha, mada and mAtsary;
agajAtmaka guhajanakam- Begetter/Father of kArtikEya;
Here I do not understand the significance of "agajAtmaka". agajAtmakam may mak more sense. This is how RC has given the sAhitya.

amartyanagara samrakShakam- Protector of amartyanagara- swarga/ alakApuri of indra;
I am unable to make out if amartyanagara refers to a particular city on earth!!!

japatapAdi niShThAntaHkaraNa vyaktarUpa- Him Who manifests in the minds/hearts of those viruous people engrossed in prayer, meditation etc;
japAkusuma dhArakam- Him Who wears the japA flower(a red colured flower);
jagatpratipAdita nijarUpaM- Him Who has created the universe as a manifestation of Himself; Him Whose form is reflected in/understood through the universe;
jagadAnandakara- Cause of unbounded happiness;
tryambakam- Three-eyed One.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Mar 2006, 06:01

agajAtmakaguhajanakam = na gaccati aga tasya apatyam strI agajA agajAtmaka (svArthE) tayA janayita guha naama apatyam agajAtmakaguhajanaka tam (that which does not move (mountain = aga = himavaan) his female daughter (agajA = pArvati) (having same meaning/nature agajAtmaka) throught her begotten (son) named guha to him).

aLakApuri is the residence of kubEra, but Indra's residence is known as amarAvati. The columbia dictionary gives
Amaravati , ancient ruined city, Andhra Pradesh state, SE India, near the mouth of the Krishna River. The former capital of the Buddhist Andhra kingdom, it is a well-known archaeological site. Remains include a beautiful Buddhist stupa (1st cent. A.D.).(http://columbia.thefreedictionary.com/Amaravati)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2006, 07:36

I slipped up on alakA when I meant to write amarAvati.

CML
parvAti had nothing to do with guha`s birth which is why I raised the doubt. If it was gaNapati, the bit would have been correct but not in the case of guha.

Why did you mention amarAvati in AP?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Mar 2006, 09:40

DRS

Though Parvati had physically nothing to do with skandajananam, muruga is considered to be of the shakti amsha. That is why I believe JC used the expression 'Atmaka' (of the nature) in the tatpuruSha compound. There are lots of shlOkas where Muruga is indeed declared as the son (of course ayOnija) of Parvati. For example in subramaNya sahasranaamam from skandapurANam we have
umA sUnvaE namaH (item 95)

The amarAvati of AP citation was in response to

I am unable to make out if amartyanagara refers to a particular city on earth!!!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2006, 09:44

CML
agajAtmaka= SaktiamSa appears to be correct. I was only unsatisfied with the earlier interpretation of "Son of Siva begotten through pArvati".

I also understood why you mentioned amarAvati. It is just there did not appear to be anything suggesting a connection.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Mar 2006, 09:59

I agree absolutely. There is no relationship of the mentioned Amaravati except in connection with buddhism where Indra is a major deity!

I did not use the word begotten in the usual sense, since Muruga became empowered only after he derived the shakti from Parvati! You may recall that even ganapati was not 'born' to Parvati since she was infertile.

Do you thinks JC has used
aparOkSha suj~nAnadAyakam in a special sense in the light of shankarAcArya's 'aparOkShAnubhUti'? I wonder whether there is some link to his writings on 'datta'!
perhaps RC has some comments!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 23 Mar 2006, 10:50

http://rapidshare.de/files/16190267/tns ... asangi.mp3

http://rapidshare.de/files/16191547/28-Sarasangi.mp3

kalyanraman-lec dem

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 24 Mar 2006, 09:43

Deleted by poster.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Mar 2006, 11:15

Deleted by poster

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Mar 2006, 11:35

Deleted by poster

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 28 Mar 2006, 00:09

Sorry for the massive hullabaloo created and scores of deletions by members.

I have u/l quite a few of oDeyar's compositions over the last year in this forum. To the best of my knowledge i have not violated any law. Most of the u/l were from memorial concerts. At times when ever i have met the vocalists like Vid. Ramakant or Vid. Nandakumar i have sought their permission. Besides i have immense respect for the vidwans. I have no intention to harm any one's commercial interests.

Any way i am an illiterate and in my yawning legal sojourn, i know some vocalist cannot threaten me , unless they have a locus standi in the case. I stand by my actions done knowingly or otherwise. I absolve the forum and admin and members of any ethical, moral or legal actions if at any time such a thing happens. I will face all consequences and do not feel the need to delete any of my postings and will continue to do so unless admin prohibits me from doing so. If any vocalist of any of my u/l feel the need to admonish me they are free to contact me. As each u/l has a record of number of times d/l have been done, i underwrite to compensate the artist adequately for such a misdemeanour.

Hope i have set the record straight.

No offense meant to any one but the show should go on.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 29 Mar 2006, 07:26

Raja Chandra
Your post is heartening. Yes it would indeed be a shame to be stymied by a passing post by someone, especially after we have come this long here(nearly 80 kRtis). Lets keep going now.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 29 Mar 2006, 07:36

sarasAngi is the 27th sampUrNa mELa. Its scale is

SR2G3M1PD1N3S* | S*NDPMGRS ||

Its a very pleasing rAga that can easily be elaborated. When singing, care should be taken to combine the pUrvANga and uttarAnga every so often as otherwise one may get lost in SankarAbharaNa(pUrvAnga) or MMgauLa(uttarAnga). Vid|| RR.Keshavamurthy explains that jAru to niShAda from above and jarU to madhyama and dhaivata from below brings out the rAgabhAva well.
The rAga evokes both SrngAra and SOka. The dhaivata mitigates the former and encourages the latter rasa.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 29 Mar 2006, 07:46

Some links to streaming audio of sarasAngi

ST`s jayajaya padmanAbha

http://swathithirunal.org/htmlfile/115.htm

Oddly, there is mention of lakShadIpa in this kRti as well(For those who are wonderin what this is about, please refer to the latest discussion in the thread on my composition under saurasEna.)

Patnam`s kRti, manavi cEkonavayya

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/QqO ... As1NMvHdW/

Patnam`s varNa

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/3qb ... As1NMvHdW/

meena · Post by **meena** » 29 Mar 2006, 08:33

DRS

Thanku very much

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 29 Mar 2006, 08:48

Most welcome Meena.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 Mar 2006, 12:00

DRS

The lakShadIpa at the Lord Padmanabha Temple at Trivandrum as instituted by King MartaaNDa varmA is held every six years and it is a fine tradition. Apparently the tradition at kukke also may have a similar tradition perhaps after the Mysore Royalty.

Thanks for the explanations. Still in what way does Saurasena differs, that is not quite clear! Per haps you could elaborate in your thread since the two rags do not sound alike at all.

Folks

Are there any RTPs (Noncommercial or Commercial (OK to make a sales pitch here

)

meena · Post by **meena** » 29 Mar 2006, 12:58

cml
with the help of my buddy google

according to 'shankarank' on bboard-smt. sowmya@ Kalarasana Jan 2 2004, has rendered the RTP - sarasAngi

guruji
copy of what link needs to be sent?

kartik · Post by **kartik** » 29 Mar 2006, 13:40

CML,
While I was reading the reviews on Sangeetham,I have read on more than one occasion that Unnikrishnan has rendered a Sarasangi RTP.I dont have a copy of the same.
Please lend it to me if you do get an RTP in Sarasangi at [email protected].I would want to 'borrow' it.

meena · Post by **meena** » 29 Mar 2006, 14:35

Ha ha!

folks! heres my 2 cents and save u all from DRS

Folks who want to 'borrow':

Let us make it simple and easy for the kind soul who wishes to 'lend' us.

Please post ur forum user id + email id in general discussions.

(ONE COMMON EMAIL THREAD will do)

param · Post by **param** » 29 Mar 2006, 16:24

guruji
copy of what link needs to be sent?

teacher amma,

links of all uploaded files that you receive either openly or discreetly.

I will maintain total

and u may rely upon me about the same.

Thanks

param · Post by **param** » 29 Mar 2006, 16:31

a search of sarasangi on google let me to the following results in ragam sarasangi

Jaya jaya padmanabha Adi Swati Tirunal
Mana cheke vayya Rupaka Patnam Subramonia Iyer
Soursenesham vallisenam Adi Muthuswamy Dikshitar
Vandeham govinda M.Chapu Balamurali krishna
Malaiyate Maname Rupaka Koteeswara Iyer
Unnadu tiruvadi Adi Gopalakrishna Bharathi
Somasundara Adi Muthaiah Bhagavathar
Sarasirunayana Adi N.S.Ramachandran
Nikela dayaradu K.Chapu Ramaswami Sivan
Menu Juchi Adi Thyagaraja
Ni Padamule Adi Vasudevachar
Dhyanam seyya K.Chapu Vedanayakom Pillai
Paartheandan Adi Muthuswamy Kavi

Will also check my records at home to see if I have the RTP that u are looking out for and If do, will arrange to upload it first and then send links to all those who have indicated an interest.

Thanks

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 29 Mar 2006, 18:15

I have a varnam in Sarasangi( I learnt it in Mayamalavagowla. However, KJY sang it in Sarasangi) I can u/l(Or lend

) it tonight if anybody is interested..

param · Post by **param** » 29 Mar 2006, 18:27

Dear all,

I would rather suggest that upload links be (till all rights are completely restored) e-mail to all the IDs that each one of us have. Also will request all concerned to please put up their e-mail ID so that we could mail the links without having to waste any time. It is then left to the concerned rasika whether he wishes to download it and if so, whether to retain or delete the same.

Over to you

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 29 Mar 2006, 19:00

The sarasAngi varNa by KJY is available on musicindiaonline.

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 30 Mar 2006, 00:31

Dear Friends,

Hope with the passing of the moon eclipsing the sun, the bad and sad phase we went thro' recently is a thing of the past. As we are entering a new year (chandramana ugadi ) called Sri Vyaya Samvatsara., let me wish you all a very happy, prosperous new year .

thank you all

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 30 Mar 2006, 00:53

geLeyabAndhavarE
nimmellarigU hosavarShada hRtpUrvaka SubhASayagaLu

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 30 Mar 2006, 01:34

RC
Cheers and Wish you all the same

"Noothana Samvatsara Subhakaankshalu" (Happy and prosperous new year to you all)

DRS
Translation for your Kannada message please...

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 30 Mar 2006, 01:37

DRS
Translation for your Kannada message please...

mI andariki nUtana samvatsaruni SubhAkAnkSalu.

(Is my telugu ok?)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 30 Mar 2006, 01:51

RC

Very appropriate description. The solar eclipse yesterday was watched with wonder most part of the world
http://skyandtelescope.com/observing/ob ... 1701_1.asp
but was not supposed to be visible in Bharat. Apparently the scientists were wrong!

We are all highly pleased to welcome the (mucita) Sun as much as the New Samvatsara with renewed vigour!

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 30 Mar 2006, 03:02

Thanks. Your Telugu is perfect....

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 10 Apr 2006, 14:56

kaapi Posted: 30 Mar 2006 08:37 am

Wish All the Rasikas A Very Happy Ugadhi.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 10 Apr 2006, 14:58

drshrikaanth Posted: 01 Apr 2006 12:26 pm

Trsust everyone had a happy yugAdi. Thanks you for all those good wishes.

The next kRti has already been posted. Here is the sAhitya

|| vimalAmbike ||

rAga: vijayavasanta ; caturaSratripuTa tALa(dESAdi)

vimalAmbikE paripAhimAm ||P||

vimalAnga SrI Siva sukhakari |
vibhudArcitE SrI vidyESvari ||AP||

sanakAdi yOgi samsEvitE |
sannuta vijayavasanta tOShitE |
sakalAmara sura vanditE |
sakalAmnAya pratipAditE ||
agaNita mahima SObhitE agastyamuni pUjitE AgamaviditE ||C||

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 10 Apr 2006, 14:59

cmlover Posted: 01 Apr 2006 06:01 pm
A simple raga, simple lyric- easy on the tongue and mind! SRJ calls this ekaragakriti with T's nee chiththamu naa bhaagyamu( can we have a link or will somebody let borrow the same). Apparently JC broke the record (perhaps DRS may break it too

)!
I am looking forward to the connection with Vamshavati (which DRS has already delightfully entertained us with!)

Is this from a live concert? (I am guessing from the claps at the end!)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 10 Apr 2006, 15:00

meena Posted: 01 Apr 2006 06:06 pm

cml

"from memorial concerts."

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 10 Apr 2006, 15:01

drshrikaanth Posted: 01 Apr 2006 06:13 pm

The vocalist for the last 2 kRtis is Vid|| Meera Rajaram. Her PhD thesis was on HMB (I dont remember the details). A very nice lady.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 10 Apr 2006, 15:02

pinkchry Posted: 01 Apr 2006 06:21 pm

Pardon the interruption, but which kritis are you talking about and where were they posted?

Thanks

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 10 Apr 2006, 15:03

drshrikaanth Posted: 01 Apr 2006 06:30 pm

pinkchry
The kRti was posted along with the one discussed previously "sarasAngi". Looks like Meena(?) has deleted it during the recent hullabaloo. email me(I have enable it) please.