Superstitions

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 05 Apr 2008, 17:00

In class today, I was told that any concert/ lesson cannot end with Saveri raga. I've never heard of this superstition before and am curious about all the superstitions in Carnatic music. Please add to my list (though the ones I know all have to do with ragas, I'm curious about all kinds of supersitions):

If you sing Ahiri, you'll have trouble getting food.
If you teach Varali or Madhyamavathi, the teacher-student relationship will fall to ruin.
It's unlucky to end a concert with Saveri.

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 05 Apr 2008, 17:46

If you sing punnagavarali, snake will come!!
If you sing Amruthavarshini, it rains! (Not every time though... i might get a beating here from others! - No offence meant to Sri Muttuswami dikshitar.. I do belive that he brought rains, that may be more because of his mantra siddhi, in addition to music)

-hari

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 05 Apr 2008, 18:50

neelambari makes you sleep

Katanakutoohalam makes you happy bumbling with enthusiasm

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 05 Apr 2008, 21:37

I have heard that one is not supposed to sing madhyamavathi(as a mangalam) if there is/are going to be more cuthceri/s following, on the same stage ,on the same day.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 05 Apr 2008, 22:50

Generally mangalam is not sung at all if there is a concert to follow irrespective of which raga

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 05 Apr 2008, 23:14

Vijay,I stand corrected.

ravi2006 · Post by **ravi2006** » 06 Apr 2008, 00:14

From Hindustani music - there is the legend that Tansen could set fire to things with raga deepak (and then douse the flames with megh malhar).

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 06 Apr 2008, 00:32

If you sing Amruthavarshini, it rains!

Place - Pudukkottai
Occasion - Narasimha Jayanti - (Gopala Krishna Bhagavatar's Tradition)
Year - I think 1998 or 1999 - May month.
Musician - Sri M Chandrasekhar - violin - solo

In the evening around 5 PM, when he was playing the kRiti 'AnandAmRta karshini', it rained so heavily that we had to run for shelter, but the song continued.

There is a Tamil proverb 'kAkkA ERa panambazham vizhundadu'. 'The moment a crow sat on the palm fruit, it (fruit) fell down'. May be this is one such sultry May months that it rained due to precipitation.

The exhilaration one feels when the ending words 'varshaya varshaya varshaya' are sung, is not explicable.

I beg of you hari - Let us reserve our comments till we touch that depth of Nadopasana which these Nadopasakas reached.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 06 Apr 2008, 07:22

saramati is supposed to be an inauspicious raaga, not played by naadaswara vidwans or sung b y musicians , especially in marriages, because the kriti by st thyagaraja mokshamukalata is in saaramati. people forget the song ;manasaramati ,ani sivan maganai, a favorite of Vijayasiva .once again, I touch subhapantuvarali, branded as a rudaali song b y AIR and Doordarshan gobilalitha.

kovilpallavi · Post by **kovilpallavi** » 06 Apr 2008, 11:27

hello members,,
i heard that anandabhairavi shld not be sung as the starting item either in a concert or in a practice.it may lead us with out food that day.
but i don't know how far it is correct...
pallavi..

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 06 Apr 2008, 12:05

excuse me Are you confusing with ahiri. gobilalitha

kovilpallavi · Post by **kovilpallavi** » 06 Apr 2008, 15:37

i am not confused.i heard abt anandabhairavi only ,i don't know abt ahiri...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 Apr 2008, 21:07

kovilpillai,
See bilahari's post at the very start about Ahiri. You will find it discussed earlier on the forum too. You would also find on enquiry that performers who sang Ahiri might have eaten a delicious meal after that concert, and might have missed a meal another day when they had not sung the rAgA! So it goes with all the taboos mentioned above.
If a guru believes in some of these and does not like to teach you one rAgA or other, it is a different matter.

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 07 Apr 2008, 07:44

I am reminded of the occasion when visiting us in our house in Urbana, Illinois in 1962-63 Rangaramanuja Iyengar refused to play nAttai raga in veeNa because he believed that doing so would drive one out of the Nadu (country) ( " nAttai vittu viratividum" ) forgetting that he WAS already out of his nAdu ( tamil nAdu ) at that moment !

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:04

Good one, Sundara Rajan! But in today's context, it gains an entirely new meaning. inda nATTukku vanda pin, ingirindu viraTTi viDum!
You would be sent back!

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:18

First time I am hearing these tales about Saveri and Ananda Bhairavi. The saveri varnam is a very popular one!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:30

And makes a very nice introductory piece...

vidya · Post by **vidya** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:38

Sundara Rajan wrote:I am reminded of the occasion when visiting us in our house in Urbana, Illinois in 1962-63 Rangaramanuja Iyengar refused to play nAttai raga in veeNa because he believed that doing so would drive one out of the Nadu (country) ( " nAttai vittu viratividum" ) forgetting that he WAS already out of his nAdu ( tamil nAdu ) at that moment !

Sundara Rajan,
This one is really a 'super' stition. Ranga Ramanuja Iyengar came to your house!!! Any other details of the visit/ experiences please.. I knew RRI has visited parts of the Far East for a lecture demonstration tour etc but have'nt heard much about his US visits. I also wonder about the existence of potential recordings (other than the presumed ones at Princeton and Mumbai) which could be priceless.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:40

let the musician choose any raagas, let there be no apaswarams. we are betterthan hm singers. no offence meant. they are supposed to sing different raagas at different timings from morning to daybreak next day. if you want to hear some of the raagas you would like to hear it should be a 24 hour performance . I see Coolkarni sharpening his daggers . fortunately Iam thousands of m iles away

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 07 Apr 2008, 11:20

vgvindan wrote:The exhilaration one feels when the ending words 'varshaya varshaya varshaya' are sung, is not explicable.
.

When MD sang this and the floods came, he was supposed to have sung something else at the end (different lyrics) to stop the rains. Does someone know what it was that he sang?

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 07 Apr 2008, 13:38

Mohan,

...He went to eTTayapuram. On the way he found that due long drought, trees had dried and the land had developed cracks. People were suffering without water for drinking. As he could not bear their suffering, in order to relieve their suffering due water scarcity, meditating on 'amRtESvari' he sang in amRta varshiNi rAga 'AnandAmRta karshiNi amRta varshiNi' looking at the sky. When he was uttering 'varshaya, varshaya, varshaya' it rained very heavily. Subsequently, on the request of the people to stop the rains, he changed the wordings 'varshaya varshaya varshaya' as 'stambhaya stambhaya, stambhaya' and the rains stopped.....

Muthuswami Dikshitar Keerthanaigal (Tamil) by M/S A Sundaram Iyer & S Venkatesan - page 9 of the life story of MD. (English Translation mine)

They use the words 'ati vEgattuDan AgAyattaip pArtu' - I presume 'ati vEgattuDan' to mean the 'tIvra gati'.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 07 Apr 2008, 15:02

Thanks vg - 'stambhaya' was the word I was looking for!

sramaswamy · Post by **sramaswamy** » 07 Apr 2008, 22:49

Speaking of the "Varali" superstition, do teachers teach this ragam? From the few whom I have heard, the teachers refuse to teach Varali. Does anyone here have learnt "varali" from a teacher?

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 07 Apr 2008, 22:54

Sramaswamy, here is a clip from Neyveli Santhanagopalan that might answer your question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlQAQGK- ... A0&index=3

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 08 Apr 2008, 06:19

Vidya: Yes. Rangaramanuja Iyengar was on a lecture/demonstartion tour of U.S. schools and visited the University of Illinois campus in Urbana-Champaign. He did give a concert in the University and stayed in the Students' Union. Some of the graduate students and research scholars from Madras State (as it was called then) invited him for a dinner at "Home" and persuaded him to play on the viNa for us. That is when the reported superstitious statement was made. That was before the advent of hand held cassette tape recorders and unfortunately I do not have any recording of his renditions then.

ajit · Post by **ajit** » 08 Apr 2008, 06:49

I have a friend in whose house Sri Rangaramanuja Iyengar stayed. I have seen some tapes there. If anybody is really interested, I can try to dig them out. He taught veena there for sometime during his trip US then.

ajit.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 Apr 2008, 08:35

Please do, Ajit. Thanks.

vidya · Post by **vidya** » 08 Apr 2008, 08:47

Sundara rajan, Thanks.
ajit,
It would be would be really nice to get access to atleast a sample of those recordings - more so to help some of us construct an image of a historically important figure. I've been looking for this for a while now and I don't even recall having seen any at sampradaya either. The only other hope I had was that Princeton might archive a few of Dr.Powers' private collections.

hvaidaya · Post by **hvaidaya** » 08 Apr 2008, 11:19

There is also a belief if Ramayana Kadha kaalkshepam is conducted, it will rain. It really happened when Visakha Hari was doing in Venus colony in 2006 unusual for Madras

srinivasasarma · Post by **srinivasasarma** » 08 Apr 2008, 12:10

We have heard many vidwans singing Ahiri ragas during concerts.
reg. other ragas too, how were they taughtto students/sishyas by gurus ?
It is true that Mangalam is sung at the last concert at the end of the day.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 08 Apr 2008, 14:03

1. Female child would not be named as 'Sita'
2. The maternal uncle of child born in ashTami will be his enemy.
3. Navami is bad because Rama was born on that day.
4. Aslesha star is bad for - elder brother?
5. Children born on the day of Amavasya would become demons.

The list can go on and on.

Parents and doctors in consultation with each other decide when the baby should be born - even if it means cesarean operation. At this rate, by now earth should have been populated by most lucky children only.

Everyone of us is steeped in superstitions upto neck. Why single out musicians only?

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 08 Apr 2008, 19:10

I was born on Amavasya day

=(

Why is Navami bad because Rama was born on that day?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Apr 2008, 19:25

You are Hari. Slayer of demons (of superstitions too, I hope)!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 08 Apr 2008, 22:19

Should we not be sticking to music-related superstitions? Otherwise the list can go on for all eternity (there: I've just created a new superstition!).

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Apr 2008, 04:10

No questions about superstitions please,
Whether it be for Ahiri or unmusical things,
If you do, you would be doomed to look for
Global superstitions--I am exempt, since
I touched wood, of every species on earth
And clacked when the lizard made a sound...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Apr 2008, 13:23

Luckily for me, out of four cats, only two came into the house this morning!

We may scoff, of course, and I am very ready to, at such things --- but the question was as to what superstitions exist, rather than as to whether or not they may have any foundation or sense behind them.

I am sure the list is not over yet...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Apr 2008, 20:44

but keep them all in the musical zone, says Nick--cats and all...

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 11 Apr 2008, 15:02

Is there a proverb sohni padinal soniaiduva( if you sing sohni, you will become soni(weak)). if it were to be true I will sing from morning to night to shed off some kilos gobilalitha

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Apr 2008, 20:25

Gobilalitha,
Singing away to your heart's content in place of snacking might pull it off!

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 11 Apr 2008, 22:39

arasi wrote:Gobilalitha,
Singing away to your heart's content in place of snacking might pull it off!

'Seviiku uNavu illAthapOthu vayitrukku(m) sirudu eeyappadum'.
Probably if wee see that there is always food for the ears, the stomach may not demand.(Yeh pEt(dil) nahi mangE more.
Singing/listening to one's heart's content may possibly help in weight reduction!

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 12 Apr 2008, 06:08

to think that the great bade ghulam ali khan did riaz in sohni, one of his favorite raagas for hours together on certain days!!!!!gobilalitha

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Apr 2008, 07:22

Good point. Opera singers tend to put on weight easily, though it is all changing. Some of the modern day singers exercise and stay trim.

10yearslate · Post by **10yearslate** » 17 Apr 2008, 10:40

Speaking of the "Varali" superstition, do teachers teach this ragam? From the few whom I have heard, the teachers refuse to teach Varali. Does anyone here have learnt "varali" from a teacher?

Sramaswamy,

I read somewhere that Maharajapuram Vishwanathayyar got around this by singing inside his house and got his students to creep up on to the 'thiNNai' outside during the alapana so that they were in place to 'hear and learn' when he got into Varali proper.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 17 Apr 2008, 10:43

10yearslate wrote:Speaking of the "Varali" superstition, do teachers teach this ragam? From the few whom I have heard, the teachers refuse to teach Varali. Does anyone here have learnt "varali" from a teacher?

Some teachers do still teach Varali

chetana · Post by **chetana** » 05 May 2008, 13:07

One should not learn all 5 pancharatna kritis from the same teacher.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 May 2008, 21:03

Superstitions are always going to be around. Just think--years from now, it is possible that 'you should not learn from a teacher via skype' could become a superstition!

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 06 May 2008, 03:11

Or perhaps the converse could be the case...i.e. you should only learn over Skype!
("Thou shalt not see your teacher face-to-face")

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 May 2008, 07:01

That would be going back to purdA days when women had to sometimes learn from a male teacher with a curtain between them...

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 06 May 2008, 07:09

arasi wrote:
That would be going back to purdA days when women had to sometimes learn from a male teacher with a curtain between them...

Like King udayana and Princess vAsavadattA in bhANa bhaTTa's romance, svapnavAsavadaTTA?

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 29 Oct 2008, 08:37

Neyveli Santhanagopalan on the Varali myth:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KlQAQGK-5Cw