Exposure to carnatic music

carnaticpriya · Post by **carnaticpriya** » 17 Apr 2008, 05:52

manvantara,

I was suggesting casual inhouse concerts. They needn't be in any particular format, though we always start with a varnam as in any other concert. I have seen friends forming a group who are interested in carnatic music. They meet in a house every fortnight and spend few hours singing and listening. All you need is a good MIC and speaker system. We do it when there are not many concerts to attend. Kids really love it.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 17 Apr 2008, 12:40

(Oh dear, you touched one of my raw nerves there... mic and speakers should not be needed for a house concert! If the musicians can't be heard without them even in a small room, that is just too bad. House concert is the chance to hear music without electronic interference!)

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Apr 2008, 13:00

rajeeram wrote:Here's my son's joke.
I am chopping vegetables in the kitchen. He comes around and asks, "Amma, are you chopping veggies?". I say, "Yes, of course I am.
He goes, "But I can mishra chop vegetables" and gives me one of his wide grins:)

I guess that is the mixra chop when you use a mixture of lengthwise chop and the crosswise chop, resulting in a kanda kanda chopped veggies.

Sorry for the mishra metaphors.

And of course, a 1% milk and whole milk cocktail is good for singing mishra piloo.

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 17 Apr 2008, 15:31

Isn't that 'mishra pAlU'?

rajeeram · Post by **rajeeram** » 17 Apr 2008, 20:12

:) mishra pAlU indeed, that's what I ask for when I order my Cinnamon Dolce Latte at Starbucks to absolve myself:)

I wish he would eat kanda kanda veggies though, the picky eater that he is.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Apr 2008, 22:06

Rajeeram, your idea works of course for Mishra kAfi. It may work for Misra pi(A)loo if the Barista is quite stingy with the decoction

10yearslate · Post by **10yearslate** » 18 Apr 2008, 05:24

Sorry I am late to this great thread. Here are my experiences.

Fortunately Aham-udai-yaaL and I have never forced our kids into it, just took them to paattu class, listened to a lot of CM and HM at home, in the car, talked a lot about it and generally created an atmosphere full of CM.

One thing we did differently, and I am aware that some of the traditionalists may frown at this is,

we did not always put CM or HM on any pedestal-we were sometimes relaxed about the 'divine', 'holy' connotations. Frinstance on a long drive we tried translating 'Devi Neeye thuNai' into English. This came out as

Goddess you are my refuge,
South Madurai-living-fish eyed one

Of course, being kids, they both were in splits over the 'fish-eyed' bit and we laughed as well. Mind you we dont make such irreverence a habit, however the odd escape, we think lightens it somewhat.

I also read them gripping bits from biographies-frinstance GNB not having learnt CM formally. His statement 'Paattai kaetta udane adhai swara roopatthil ketkum bhagyatthai peRRen' was something I threw at my daughter as a challenge.

She now tries to swara notate 'kokku para para'! And so it goes.

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 18 Apr 2008, 06:26

10yearslate wrote:Sorry I am late to this great thread. Here are my experiences.

Fortunately Aham-udai-yaaL and I have never forced our kids into it, just took them to paattu class, listened to a lot of CM and HM at home, in the car, talked a lot about it and generally created an atmosphere full of CM.

One thing we did differently, and I am aware that some of the traditionalists may frown at this is,

we did not always put CM or HM on any pedestal-we were sometimes relaxed about the 'divine', 'holy' connotations. Frinstance on a long drive we tried translating 'Devi Neeye thuNai' into English. This came out as

Goddess you are my refuge,
South Madurai-living-fish eyed one

Of course, being kids, they both were in splits over the 'fish-eyed' bit and we laughed as well. Mind you we dont make such irreverence a habit, however the odd escape, we think lightens it somewhat.

I also read them gripping bits from biographies-frinstance GNB not having learnt CM formally. His statement 'Paattai kaetta udane adhai swara roopatthil ketkum bhagyatthai peRRen' was something I threw at my daughter as a challenge.

She now tries to swara notate 'kokku para para'! And so it goes.

At least you weren't 10 years late..... I'm sorry you had to read such a poor joke

In all honesty though I did like this post you made, it seems like your making learning CM fun, which is always good as long as they get the point.

When I learned from Jayshankar Uncle (I'm sure you all know him, Jayshankar Balan) for a short time, he always had a smile on his face, cracking jokes and overall, having a fun atmosphere while I was in class which really helped me learn.

I have somewhat of a random question because I don't think it's thread worthy. Is there any site I can go to that has CM songs and it's Englsih translations? I've always been interested to study what each song means, in order to get the actual "feel" for each song.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 18 Apr 2008, 06:35

mridangamkid wrote:I have somewhat of a random question because I don't think it's thread worthy. Is there any site I can go to that has CM songs and it's Englsih translations? I've always been interested to study what each song means, in order to get the actual "feel" for each song.

The wiki on this very site has translations of Thyagaraja and some other krithis. See http://www.rasikas.org/wiki/
Some other lyrics sites also have translations. Several sites are listed at http://www.carnaticcorner.com/lyrics.html

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 18 Apr 2008, 06:38

Thank you very much

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 18 Apr 2008, 11:52

we did not always put CM or HM on any pedestal

How could it ever be too late for this wonderful example to be given!

OK, I believe in children being taught proper behaviour in concerts (I believe in adults being taught it too, but that seems a lost cause

) --- but how can any child be expected to enjoy music if it comes with overtones of seriousness and severity!

For the young student, there are lots of serious lessons to be learnt such as respect for the teacher, the instrument, the music, the traditions, but hopefully this will be given in a way that is not a killer experience --- and once the child has become a student one assumes that they must have already acquired some affinity for the music.

10yearslate · Post by **10yearslate** » 18 Apr 2008, 17:51

Mridangamkid,

There's a reason for my punai-ppeyar, and you're pretty much in striking distance

Thank You Nick-ji.

Another thing I would like to point out (and others have made this w.r.t using Western Classical) is that we tend to be fairly catholic in hearing Classical Indian music in our household. I and the aham-udai-yaal spent the early part of our lives in Hubli (Cool-ji, naav nimmooravru-ree saahebre!) and thus were reasonably familiar with Sawai Gandharva, Pt Bhimsen Joshi, Gangubai Hangal, Mallikarjun Mansur, Vinayak Torvi et al.

Thus HM gets quite an airing in our household (Rajan & Sajan Mishra's Raag Durga is a current fave) as does Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan's sufi music. We also recently went to the unassuming Manjari Kelkar's concert in our city

While all this is an accident of circumstance, and not by any design, we feel that our kids will thus be exposed to healthy pan-Indian music and not be restricted to one silo.

Our only regret is that we do not have a ear for Western classical as such, otherwise we'd be listening to that as well.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Apr 2008, 20:03

It is never too late.You can give western music a whirl and start listening to it, as open minded as you both seem to be! sangIta kELOdakke vayasu EnAdarEnu? (does age count when it comes to listening to music?)

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 18 Apr 2008, 22:16

arasi: I don't know whether they still do it now but PBS used to have lot of nice programs during their annual fund raising campaigns - there would be live telecasts of events at various venues such as the Lincoln Memorial Center in New York; in fact this was the way by which I was introduced to the three tenors in concert (Jose Carreras, Luciano Pavrotti and Placido Domingo)! The management of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra used to have a "Meet the Conductor for coffee and pastry" program on Saturday mornings between 11-12 to which all were welcome. The conductor selected compositions of a given composer and held an interactive session with members of the audience regarding the nuances. It was a lot of fun! Often these were then played in concert the following Tuesday night. Gees I do miss that now...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 18 Apr 2008, 22:28

"Meet the Conductor for coffee and pastry"

That is an idea that Sabhas and cultural organizations can emulate for CM.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 19 Apr 2008, 18:44

10yearslate wrote:Aham-udai-yaaL

Sorry for this tangential digression; I tried, but I could not resist temptation any longer!

I like that very much (for some reason it evokes memories of Rumpole and Hilda - 'She, who must be obeyed' - BTW, I have been banned from saying those words out aloud - I hope 'writing' them doesn't count!

), but much prefer the succinct 'ardhAngI'....

Ravi

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Apr 2008, 20:35

Ravi,
agam uDaiyAL=one who is the home maker and one who has the heart too...

10yearslate · Post by **10yearslate** » 21 Apr 2008, 07:21

rshankar-ji,

ardhAngi also means 'half shirt' in Kannada. Now the Kannada word for 'full pants' which is arguably 'uddha choNNa' does not have the 'pun'ny connotations of ardhAngi

Decidedly digressive direction dis dhread has daken!

fuddyduddy · Post by **fuddyduddy** » 23 Apr 2008, 21:44

co-incidentally, my husband who is not a reader of rasikas.org wrote about carnatic music in his blogs :

http://schari1971.wordpress.com/

nothing special but a just-for-fun read!