The Ramanavami Music concert sat Bangalore has concluded People attend the concerts which normally starts around 6-30 PM and goes up to 9-30 OR 10-00 PM depending on the artist. People on week days come from far places to listen to their favorite artists.
Some times some aged persons cannot sit till 10-00 PM because of various reasons like transportation or health problems, but they make it a point to attend daily and listen to good music till 8-30 to 9-00 PM and the leave the concert.
Some times youngsters also have to return home early to attend to the studying children OR aged depends, and they listen to the concerts for few hours and return home for duties with a relaxed mind.
Recently in one of the sabhas a famous artist stopped alapana and commented the audience leaving the concert at the middle (which he considered as Bad manners)
Why cant he appreciate the audience who come from long distances with all the difficulties to listen to the music and balance their other responsibilities.
Is the comment called for?
What is your opinion?
Shriroop:
Concerts
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VK RAMAN
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Shriroop:
Audience leaving in the middle of the concert is very distracting, disturbing and insulting to the singer and the sabha organizing it. Those who have to leave in the middle of the concert because of various understable reasons should sit in the back and leave without bothering anyone in the audience and without allowing this to be a distraction to the singer.
Audience leaving in the middle of the concert is very distracting, disturbing and insulting to the singer and the sabha organizing it. Those who have to leave in the middle of the concert because of various understable reasons should sit in the back and leave without bothering anyone in the audience and without allowing this to be a distraction to the singer.
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Nick H
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Exactly.
Whilst there is always the possibility of a really genuine and unforeseen emergency (one can be informed by text message on a phone set to 'silent') such as serious family sickness, just about nothing else warrants disturbing the performers and the rest of the audience.
Those who must leave at part-time can always wait until the end of a song (and that does not mean the thani, or violin alapana) to make a move.
A bad example is often set by "VIPs", who not only depart from the front row, but do so with fuss about each other and exchanging namascarams with the performers. Their self importance is simply bad manners.
Whilst there is always the possibility of a really genuine and unforeseen emergency (one can be informed by text message on a phone set to 'silent') such as serious family sickness, just about nothing else warrants disturbing the performers and the rest of the audience.
Those who must leave at part-time can always wait until the end of a song (and that does not mean the thani, or violin alapana) to make a move.
A bad example is often set by "VIPs", who not only depart from the front row, but do so with fuss about each other and exchanging namascarams with the performers. Their self importance is simply bad manners.
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pranathi
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Audience discipline is very important in concerts. Sitting in the front rows and walking away in the middle of the concert is total disregard for the music and the musicians. If they are hard pressed for time, better not to attend concerts, thats what I feel. Especially, when the tani aavaratanam starts, some people walk out as a rule. It is terrible for the performaer, with put whose support, the concert would be no where. On the other side, the musicians also can reduce one or two pieces and give the mrudangist to start tani earlier, so it may help to avoid the walking away situation. Busy people who want to listen partly should sit in the back rows and should take care not to distract the artiste. Music is divine, not everyone can be an artistes, they are truly blessed and we need to respect the divinity in music.
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asarma
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Certainly leaving the auditorium halfway down a performance is bound to affect the concentration of the singer. However for valid reasons as the ones cited by shriroop, a moment of inactivity can always be found at the end of a performance, so people who have to leave for various reasons can tactfully leave without fuss. Tact is required here.
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appam
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Have any of the organisers thought about the commencement of concert time be changed to 5pm or 5.30pm so that the audience can go home by 9pm or latest by 9.30pm????This will not only prevent most of the audience leaving in the middle of a concert but also not be a distraction for the performers and everyone gets to enjoy the same till the end??? Aged people constitute almost 90% of all the concerts.This is true especially in winter in a place like Bangalore where it gets cold and dark pretty soon .
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rbharath
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this is a touchy thing...
it is not valid of just b'lore but of madras also..
there will always be a standard set which leaves at 8ish whatever happens.. to put it crudely, yendha raaja yendha patnam ponaalum 8 manikku aathukku kalambanum.
during the week, to prepone a concert to before 6 makes it tough to attend from beginning. and concerts which go beyond say 9 or 9:30, well all of us have to go to work the next morning.
as somebody suggests, the most ethical thingy to do is to leave silently between two complete pieces. and if u know u should leave in the middle, dont sit in the middle of the audi.. sit near an exit and leave silently.
it is not valid of just b'lore but of madras also..
there will always be a standard set which leaves at 8ish whatever happens.. to put it crudely, yendha raaja yendha patnam ponaalum 8 manikku aathukku kalambanum.
during the week, to prepone a concert to before 6 makes it tough to attend from beginning. and concerts which go beyond say 9 or 9:30, well all of us have to go to work the next morning.
as somebody suggests, the most ethical thingy to do is to leave silently between two complete pieces. and if u know u should leave in the middle, dont sit in the middle of the audi.. sit near an exit and leave silently.
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manvantara
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I am just back after attending some concerts at the Chicago Thyagaraja Uthsavam and here too, the same thing happened. We Indians need to learn to respect performing artistes a lot more!
A person who already knows that he/she has to leave early must sit closer to an exit and must leave only at the conclusion of a song (or at the end of an alapana).
I missed the initial portion of T.M.Krishna's concert, but right after the anupallavi of his main song, he paused and said: "An announcement was made at the start of the concert - that children/people sitting on the stage must not move around for the duration of the concert; I think that applies to the audience off the stage, too" (or something to that effect).
There were just TOO many children running around and talking loudly while doing so.
We take the effort to travel to a concert, we pay money and we look forward to listening to an artiste - and yet, we are not courteous or sensitive to the artiste! It is disgraceful. It is time we Indians learn how to be disciplined rasikas and treat our performing artistes with respect and sensitivity. It is also time we teach our children to behave properly (absolutely no running inside the auditorium once a concert begins, no talking loudly, no talking unnecessarily, no playing, etc).
A person who already knows that he/she has to leave early must sit closer to an exit and must leave only at the conclusion of a song (or at the end of an alapana).
I missed the initial portion of T.M.Krishna's concert, but right after the anupallavi of his main song, he paused and said: "An announcement was made at the start of the concert - that children/people sitting on the stage must not move around for the duration of the concert; I think that applies to the audience off the stage, too" (or something to that effect).
There were just TOO many children running around and talking loudly while doing so.
We take the effort to travel to a concert, we pay money and we look forward to listening to an artiste - and yet, we are not courteous or sensitive to the artiste! It is disgraceful. It is time we Indians learn how to be disciplined rasikas and treat our performing artistes with respect and sensitivity. It is also time we teach our children to behave properly (absolutely no running inside the auditorium once a concert begins, no talking loudly, no talking unnecessarily, no playing, etc).
Last edited by manvantara on 28 May 2008, 00:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Nick H
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It's time audiences learned to treat each other with the courtesy and other qualities that you mention.
I don't disagree that it is due to the artists and even to the music itself, it most certainly is --- but it is fellow members of the audience who are the most troubled by these damned antics.
The artists aren't even going to be able to hear a couple of people chatting half way back in the hall!
I don't disagree that it is due to the artists and even to the music itself, it most certainly is --- but it is fellow members of the audience who are the most troubled by these damned antics.
The artists aren't even going to be able to hear a couple of people chatting half way back in the hall!
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manvantara
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You are right Nick - we rasikas need to be sensitive to other rasikas!
I feel very bad that we are passing on this callous attitude to our children too - children born and raised in the US see the difference - when they go to a Western classical music concert (IF they are old enough to be allowed in, that is!), they dress nicely, sit quietly in place and listen properly, but when they attend a carnatic music concert, there seem to be no rules, written or unwritten.
Some day, my time will come, when I will have the opportunity to contribute a bit to the local organization that arranges carnatic music concerts. I am going to write down some rules and am going to be mean and nasty in implementing them!
I feel very bad that we are passing on this callous attitude to our children too - children born and raised in the US see the difference - when they go to a Western classical music concert (IF they are old enough to be allowed in, that is!), they dress nicely, sit quietly in place and listen properly, but when they attend a carnatic music concert, there seem to be no rules, written or unwritten.
Some day, my time will come, when I will have the opportunity to contribute a bit to the local organization that arranges carnatic music concerts. I am going to write down some rules and am going to be mean and nasty in implementing them!
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Sam Swaminathan
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"am going to be mean and nasty in implementing them!"
No, please don't do that. For after all, capital punishment has not eradicated murders and other nasty criminal acts. Best thing to do is to educate them and continue to educate them. I have been running the NZ chapter of carnatic music for well over 15 years and we also faced the same problems till a few years ago. But constant reminders and mild admonitions have certainly sunk into the conscience of our listeners and the behaviour, nowadays, is certainly praiseworthy. We do not allow any one other than the artists to sit on the stage. We have a "minder" for keeping an eye on the children. There are EC members who are there for providing this kind of social service, and these members are not too keen about music, in the sense they cannot sit down for the entire 3 hour duration. They take their turns in doing this kind of "monitoring" work.
At the end of the day, running a successful concert is like managing a project. Structured planning and execution is very important.
No, please don't do that. For after all, capital punishment has not eradicated murders and other nasty criminal acts. Best thing to do is to educate them and continue to educate them. I have been running the NZ chapter of carnatic music for well over 15 years and we also faced the same problems till a few years ago. But constant reminders and mild admonitions have certainly sunk into the conscience of our listeners and the behaviour, nowadays, is certainly praiseworthy. We do not allow any one other than the artists to sit on the stage. We have a "minder" for keeping an eye on the children. There are EC members who are there for providing this kind of social service, and these members are not too keen about music, in the sense they cannot sit down for the entire 3 hour duration. They take their turns in doing this kind of "monitoring" work.
At the end of the day, running a successful concert is like managing a project. Structured planning and execution is very important.
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appam
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rbharath
Member Re: Concertsthis is a touchy thing...
it is not valid of just b'lore but of madras also..
there will always be a standard set which leaves at 8ish whatever happens.. to put it crudely, yendha raaja yendha patnam ponaalum 8 manikku aathukku kalambanum.
during the week, to prepone a concert to before 6 makes it tough to attend from beginning. and concerts which go beyond say 9 or 9:30, well all of us have to go to work the next morning.
as somebody suggests, the most ethical thingy to do is to leave silently between two complete pieces. and if u know u should leave in the middle, dont sit in the middle of the audi.. sit near an exit and leave silently.
r bharath
Asking people who want to leave early to sit near the exit is certainly not going to work because everyone in the audience want a seat where they can have a good view of the stage.
one cannot blame the aged people from leaving early because many of them would like to have their dinner latest by 8.30pm and have lifestyle diseases which impose constraints on them.
if a concert starts at 6.30pm by 8pm the main artist would have just started the main piece.so genuine people who would want to stay till the end ,also are forced to leave
Hence it should be emphasised to the organisers to start the concert early,to be concluded latest by 9pm.Many of the older generation still believe in the adage that ""Early to bed and early to rise " is the way to live.
Member Re: Concertsthis is a touchy thing...
it is not valid of just b'lore but of madras also..
there will always be a standard set which leaves at 8ish whatever happens.. to put it crudely, yendha raaja yendha patnam ponaalum 8 manikku aathukku kalambanum.
during the week, to prepone a concert to before 6 makes it tough to attend from beginning. and concerts which go beyond say 9 or 9:30, well all of us have to go to work the next morning.
as somebody suggests, the most ethical thingy to do is to leave silently between two complete pieces. and if u know u should leave in the middle, dont sit in the middle of the audi.. sit near an exit and leave silently.
r bharath
Asking people who want to leave early to sit near the exit is certainly not going to work because everyone in the audience want a seat where they can have a good view of the stage.
one cannot blame the aged people from leaving early because many of them would like to have their dinner latest by 8.30pm and have lifestyle diseases which impose constraints on them.
if a concert starts at 6.30pm by 8pm the main artist would have just started the main piece.so genuine people who would want to stay till the end ,also are forced to leave
Hence it should be emphasised to the organisers to start the concert early,to be concluded latest by 9pm.Many of the older generation still believe in the adage that ""Early to bed and early to rise " is the way to live.
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braindrain
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I dont think the whole thing is to do with the timing of the concert. One of the sabha in Bangalore, starts their monthly concert program at 4:15 pm and the stroy is no different.
On the other side of the coin, I have seen a packed audience for a concert which lasted 5 hrs ( started at 9:45 pm and ended at 2:45 am ). If the music is good, people do stay.
On the other side of the coin, I have seen a packed audience for a concert which lasted 5 hrs ( started at 9:45 pm and ended at 2:45 am ). If the music is good, people do stay.
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vijay
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Some observations:
Starting early, especially on weekends is a great idea...5 to 8 is probably the best time and would also be a good strategy to keep cash registers ringing at the canteen. I could never really appreciate the "time factor" as long as I living in the heart of Chennai with most Sabhas within walking distance....but having to negotiate vicious dogs outside my home in a remote area in Bangalore/spending 250 bucks on auto has certainly given me a fresh perspective!
I am also a strong advocate of the intermission although I now some others feel that it interrupts the flow...this would also be a great time to fit in the speeches!
Having said the above, I have seen enough concerts where tukkads section of certain artistes is sung to jam packed halls well into the night!
Sam's idea of a minder is a very conisderate and thoughtful initiative which smaller sabhas would do well to emulate
Starting early, especially on weekends is a great idea...5 to 8 is probably the best time and would also be a good strategy to keep cash registers ringing at the canteen. I could never really appreciate the "time factor" as long as I living in the heart of Chennai with most Sabhas within walking distance....but having to negotiate vicious dogs outside my home in a remote area in Bangalore/spending 250 bucks on auto has certainly given me a fresh perspective!
I am also a strong advocate of the intermission although I now some others feel that it interrupts the flow...this would also be a great time to fit in the speeches!
Having said the above, I have seen enough concerts where tukkads section of certain artistes is sung to jam packed halls well into the night!
Sam's idea of a minder is a very conisderate and thoughtful initiative which smaller sabhas would do well to emulate
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Nick H
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Then they must pay the price, they cannot, or should not, have it both ways: want to leave early? then sacrifice the good view of the stage. In fact, aisle seats are fairly easy to leave from, as long as the doors can be easily accessed, too. A person walking swiftly up or down the centre aisle, and not stopping to exchange words with half a dozen friends, causes little trouble to others.Asking people who want to leave early to sit near the exit is certainly not going to work because everyone in the audience want a seat where they can have a good view of the stage.
And why do people walking accross the front adopt this ridiculous half-bowed posture? They should think about the geometry, and realise that it causes more disruption than walking straight. Duck under a camera, by all means --- the rest is just a silly affectation!
(walking accross the front, in front of the stage, causes less disruption than fighting from one end to the other of a row of seated people!)
Hey! I think I'd better go shopping to put myself in a better mood. Before I get on to putting tala.
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manvantara
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Nick H
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manvantara
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vgvindan
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IMHO, music is all about bhAva. The artist's involment in the music is seen from the face - so is the case with other - so called 'pakka vAdya'.because everyone in the audience want a seat where they can have a good view of the stage
'sogasugA mRdanga tALamu jata kUrci ninnu sokka cEyu dhIruDevvaDO'.
The voice paints half the picture, the face completes the painting.
I, for one, would like to close my eyes if the artists makes cEshTas which are artificial.
Look at the MS's photo right on top here.
Last edited by vgvindan on 29 May 2008, 08:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Nick H
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beautifully put, vggindan.The voice paints half the picture, the face completes the painting.
manvantara, me too sometimes, and I am embarrassed to sit too close to the front in case the artists should think that I am sleeping! There may well be times when my external appearance is indeed such, and I would hate to give offence.For me, I like to close my eyes and listen to the music, so it does not matter much where I sit.
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manvantara
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Sam Swaminathan, thanks for your input. Coming from someone who has taken the initiative and contributed to organizing concerts for over 15 years, I value your comments.
BTW, when I wrote I was going to be "mean and nasty in implementing them", it was in jest - I really meant that I was going to take the trouble to actually implement the rules, since all too often I find that there are rules but no one seems to be aware of them and those that are, do not seem to care to follow!
BTW, when I wrote I was going to be "mean and nasty in implementing them", it was in jest - I really meant that I was going to take the trouble to actually implement the rules, since all too often I find that there are rules but no one seems to be aware of them and those that are, do not seem to care to follow!
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manvantara
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appam, one can listen to a CD a couple of times after which the phrases become familiar and if you are like me, you will start singing along. 
Also, I go to a concert to listen to it (for which I do not need to keep my eyes open); often, I find my eyes distracting me and I find that when I close my eyes, I am able to enjoy the music better. But as Nick mentioned, it can be embarassing if the artiste spots a rasika like me and thinks I am sleeping!
Listening to a CD is (mostly) like opening a can of vegetables; going to a concert is like buying fresh vegetables.
Depending on the artiste's mood, depending on how the audience responds, a concert can take different directions, so I do love attending concerts whenever I can. Also, I live in the mid-west USA in a city where there are not too many carnatic music concerts each year (the local organization Sangeetha does organize concerts - usually 8 each year, out of which 4 are Hindustani and 4 are Carnatic). So going to a live concert is a treat for me.
Also, I go to a concert to listen to it (for which I do not need to keep my eyes open); often, I find my eyes distracting me and I find that when I close my eyes, I am able to enjoy the music better. But as Nick mentioned, it can be embarassing if the artiste spots a rasika like me and thinks I am sleeping!
Listening to a CD is (mostly) like opening a can of vegetables; going to a concert is like buying fresh vegetables.
Depending on the artiste's mood, depending on how the audience responds, a concert can take different directions, so I do love attending concerts whenever I can. Also, I live in the mid-west USA in a city where there are not too many carnatic music concerts each year (the local organization Sangeetha does organize concerts - usually 8 each year, out of which 4 are Hindustani and 4 are Carnatic). So going to a live concert is a treat for me.
Last edited by manvantara on 29 May 2008, 03:19, edited 1 time in total.
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arasi
- Posts: 16877
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
Birds eye peas turn to hail
While you listen to the wireless?
Better manners in kacEris?
Nick the crusader is tireless
While I try pleading, gesturing
in asking them to be quiet
True, the seniors are the seat-fillers
While the younger-set are CM's
rasikAs for many years to come!
Early start or late, there are many
Concerts to attend, to suit us all
Traffic patterns permitting, true!
With unobtrusive arrivals, departures
At appropriate times between pieces
Utmost consideration from speakers
In keeping their promise about their
'Saying a few words', and less from
The endless talkers in the hall,
We would be blessed, indeed.
Sam,
All sabhas abroad should follow New Zealand in keeping the children occupied outside of the hall (except for the ones who are genuinely into CM). May work in India too where possible. A great idea since some attending parents are not that keen on sitting through an entire concert and are willing to monitor. Young baby sitters can earn a little money which would make them feel professional and responsible. A small investment, considering the benefits...
While you listen to the wireless?
Better manners in kacEris?
Nick the crusader is tireless
While I try pleading, gesturing
in asking them to be quiet
True, the seniors are the seat-fillers
While the younger-set are CM's
rasikAs for many years to come!
Early start or late, there are many
Concerts to attend, to suit us all
Traffic patterns permitting, true!
With unobtrusive arrivals, departures
At appropriate times between pieces
Utmost consideration from speakers
In keeping their promise about their
'Saying a few words', and less from
The endless talkers in the hall,
We would be blessed, indeed.
Sam,
All sabhas abroad should follow New Zealand in keeping the children occupied outside of the hall (except for the ones who are genuinely into CM). May work in India too where possible. A great idea since some attending parents are not that keen on sitting through an entire concert and are willing to monitor. Young baby sitters can earn a little money which would make them feel professional and responsible. A small investment, considering the benefits...
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gobilalitha
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- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 07:12
The main reason for rasikas to leave early or in the midst of a song or tani, incurring the wreath or displeasure of the musicians, is anxiety for getting transport back home .This does not apply to those who have got transport of their own This is for purely middle class or lower middle class who payrs 100 for a kutcheri, rs 200 for a family of two. As you all are aware, Public Transport is well organised in foreign countries. In Indian cities, it is a disgrace . the autorickshaw wallas and the bus conductors have a dictionary of their own to use chiocest abuses,
let me furnish a conversation. a passenger asks an auto wallah ,quoting a destination 'HOW MUCH' he replies 400(it will not be not even 50, if correctly metered) yousay rs100, as it is night time. he repliesYO ,SAVU GRAKI(CORPSEIN ENGLISH) NADANTU POIYAH (GO BY WALK .
BY BUS..... You are waiting for a bus in a bus stop. the driver of the bus stops the bus 100 yards away from the bus stop . you run risking your life to get a foothold on the step, to be pushed in by other passengers. the conductor shouts YE PERISU, ARIVIRUKKA ONAKKU , VEETLE SOLLITTU VANDHUTIA( you old hag, have you got sense, have you informed your house people?) IN Bangalore ,the same conversation is in kannada............ gobilalitha
let me furnish a conversation. a passenger asks an auto wallah ,quoting a destination 'HOW MUCH' he replies 400(it will not be not even 50, if correctly metered) yousay rs100, as it is night time. he repliesYO ,SAVU GRAKI(CORPSEIN ENGLISH) NADANTU POIYAH (GO BY WALK .
BY BUS..... You are waiting for a bus in a bus stop. the driver of the bus stops the bus 100 yards away from the bus stop . you run risking your life to get a foothold on the step, to be pushed in by other passengers. the conductor shouts YE PERISU, ARIVIRUKKA ONAKKU , VEETLE SOLLITTU VANDHUTIA( you old hag, have you got sense, have you informed your house people?) IN Bangalore ,the same conversation is in kannada............ gobilalitha
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Nick H
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An oft-used excuse, which I find less believable as time goes by. Funny how many buses I see on the road well after 8.00pm, and I'd go so far as to suggest (maintaining my warrior reputation for the sake of Arasi's poetryThe main reason for rasikas to leave early or in the midst of a song or tani, incurring the wreath or displeasure of the musicians, is anxiety for getting transport back home .
) that many of these Mylapore disruptors either live within walking distance of the concert they are disturbing, or have their drivers waiting outside. Those that do not are well able to handle the auto drivers.I really do not believe that the bus companies are monitoring the thani performances to decide when that day's last bus will be!
At the risk of encouraging the envy of those abroad, or not in Chennai, it is also worth noting that, out of the season, most of us pay nothing for most the music we see performed --- we rely on Mr Nalli, Krishna Sweets, and the combination of advertising budget/generosity/philanthropy of a number of other individuals and organisations to do that for us.
Again, while I am in warrior mood, let me repeat that, mostly it is not children that disturb concerts, it is adults. Furthermore, it is most often, errr, senior adults.
But appreciating the concert in a state of semiconciousness some might call sleeping disturbs no-one. At least I hope it doesn't: for goodness sake feel free to stick your elbows in my ribs if I start snoring!
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prashant
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Also, if transport really is the problem, then rasikas who wish to exit during the tani should politely leave in the interlude after the artiste has finished their elaboration of the main raga? They can stand outside and hear the main krithi or pallavi and if a tani avartanam is not to their liking, leave after the song. That way, there is an even wider variety of buses / rickshaws available and hopefully less abuses .[not to mention far less ignominy for the percussion artistes to see half the hall get up just when their time to really display their vidvat has come around].
Everyone has their own right to leave any concert whenever they want, but the cavalier treatment of mridangam and upapakkavadyam artistes by rasikas can be easily stopped.
.[not to mention far less ignominy for the percussion artistes to see half the hall get up just when their time to really display their vidvat has come around].Everyone has their own right to leave any concert whenever they want, but the cavalier treatment of mridangam and upapakkavadyam artistes by rasikas can be easily stopped.
Last edited by prashant on 29 May 2008, 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
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prashant
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While a thoughtful suggestion, no doubt, this really doesn't work, IMO from an artiste's point of view. During a concert one works to get into that 'zone' where ideas are flowing cohesively, the voice is progressively getting more and more responsive and the team is feeding on each others' energy . Any break in the creative process of an artiste is not called for.rajumds wrote:Why not provide a small intermission at around 8 pm for the early goers to leave.
The kutcheri format provides ample chances for people to leave the hall while the artistes refresh themselves between pieces. Most of today's Carnatic artistes expend tremendous energy and effort planning concerts with a diverse repertoire, honouring requests and trying to please their rasikas. It is not too much to ask, as Nick has pointed out in his several posts in this thread, for rasikas to be a bit more sensitive to the artistes' needs.
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PUNARVASU
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I fully agree with Prashant; It is not like in a drama or play where the parts are all well rehersed and learnt by heart. When the flow of the imagination is interrupted it affects the music;we all know how the so called 'short speeches' in the middle of the concerts disturb the whole ambience.As rasikas,it is our duty to respect the troubles the artsists take to present a good concert and be sensitive.
Shri BMK used to give intermission in his concerts long back
Shri BMK used to give intermission in his concerts long back
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Nick H
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- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03
I like intermissions; it seems to work well in the London carnatic scene, even though they invariably go on longer than planned. The artists who sing without interval here seem to be able to adjust.
However, if it is their preference to sing without interruption, and the preference of the majority to get home 30 to 40 minutes earlier then it is something that I don't think is a big deal. Sure, it means that I may occasionally have to be one of the movers in and out, but I tend to sit where that is going to be possible anyway.
Few of us can say that we have never moved from our seats in 100% of the concerts we have attended, although I can say that I do not if it is not really necessary. Perhaps as one gets older...
What about concert-hopping in the season? Do we make any exception for this as part of the nature of the event? Or do we feel that the same rule should be applied twelve months a year?
However, if it is their preference to sing without interruption, and the preference of the majority to get home 30 to 40 minutes earlier then it is something that I don't think is a big deal. Sure, it means that I may occasionally have to be one of the movers in and out, but I tend to sit where that is going to be possible anyway.
Few of us can say that we have never moved from our seats in 100% of the concerts we have attended, although I can say that I do not if it is not really necessary. Perhaps as one gets older...
What about concert-hopping in the season? Do we make any exception for this as part of the nature of the event? Or do we feel that the same rule should be applied twelve months a year?
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appam
- Posts: 44
- Joined: 27 May 2007, 15:17
i dont agree with the view of having interval in the midst of a good kutcheri.It only increases the time and puts everyone including the artists in difficulty.For a good rasika expects uninterrupted music enjoyment for 2.5 to 3 hours ,after which he can happily return home.Often speeches r made in the middle to have audience clap.It is an fomality which cannot be done away with.
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Nick H
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03
It can certainly be done away with.
I'm for zero-tolerance of speeches. And I never clap when asked to --- something which I feel must be very embarrassing to the artists anyway. Audiences applaud as they see fit at the end of each piece and at the end of the concert.
Yes: do away with speeches. Speeches are invariably to satisfy the speaker, and do nothing for artist, audience or performance.
They do not happen at every concert, thank goodness, anyway.
I'm for zero-tolerance of speeches. And I never clap when asked to --- something which I feel must be very embarrassing to the artists anyway. Audiences applaud as they see fit at the end of each piece and at the end of the concert.
Yes: do away with speeches. Speeches are invariably to satisfy the speaker, and do nothing for artist, audience or performance.
They do not happen at every concert, thank goodness, anyway.
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manvantara
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 04 Apr 2008, 01:10
I think the core of the issue is that our attitude towards performing artistes needs to change. We need to respect them and their art.
Going on stage and performing for 2-3 hours (or more) is no easy task. Agreed that many are professionals and that it should not be hard for them, but how many of us have a job wherein we are under the spotlight for n hours, have to have a pleasant face at that time and still perform our best?
I agree that people may have various reasons to leave earlier, before a concert ends. If a person enters a concert hall knowing fully well about having to leave earlier, is it too much to ask of them to be sensitive and do so when one item concludes? Is it too much to ask people to be silent once inside a hall, once a concert begins? Is that the time for chatting (even if it is about CM)?! Is it too difficult to ask our children to not shout or talk inside the auditorium?
While we expect an artiste to arrive on time and sing well, isn't it the duty of the rasika to provide a serene atmosphere so that the artiste can give his/her best? It is time we Indians learn to follow these unwritten rules. It is time we show some dignity in our behaviour. It is time we understand the etiquette of being a decent rasika.
Going on stage and performing for 2-3 hours (or more) is no easy task. Agreed that many are professionals and that it should not be hard for them, but how many of us have a job wherein we are under the spotlight for n hours, have to have a pleasant face at that time and still perform our best?
I agree that people may have various reasons to leave earlier, before a concert ends. If a person enters a concert hall knowing fully well about having to leave earlier, is it too much to ask of them to be sensitive and do so when one item concludes? Is it too much to ask people to be silent once inside a hall, once a concert begins? Is that the time for chatting (even if it is about CM)?! Is it too difficult to ask our children to not shout or talk inside the auditorium?
While we expect an artiste to arrive on time and sing well, isn't it the duty of the rasika to provide a serene atmosphere so that the artiste can give his/her best? It is time we Indians learn to follow these unwritten rules. It is time we show some dignity in our behaviour. It is time we understand the etiquette of being a decent rasika.
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arasi
- Posts: 16877
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
Nick, man with a cause,
In the last round of our discussing this subject (nearly a year ago?), I did say that it is not possible to do season-crawling without breaking, at least bending the rules in the 'good manners of a rasikA book'. The artistes don't mind it since they do realize that we cannot be in three different places at the same time, the concerts don't begin and end at the same hour, and there is time involved in reaching venues. They are happy that you showed up to listen to them when there is so much music out there.
Prashant,
I am with you when it comes to intermission in a CM concert. The flow can get impeded. It works with HM because it comes after tackling two rAgAs for nearly two hours. RasikAs rest, have some refreshments perhaps, when the artistes take a break as well.
Appam,
I don't think speeches are essential or are formalities to be observed. They are more a habit which we do not want to shed. Yes, a vote of thanks is fine, if 'a few words' are spoken. Introducing the artistes can be done with a simple printed piece of paper which is not even necessary in a temple concert, for instance.
Speeches are fine from a scholar in a thematic concert when he or she educates us about the theme, and the performance which follows is not long. It is better if it is advertised so in the papers (sabha brochures) so that those who plan on coming know what to expect.
In the last round of our discussing this subject (nearly a year ago?), I did say that it is not possible to do season-crawling without breaking, at least bending the rules in the 'good manners of a rasikA book'. The artistes don't mind it since they do realize that we cannot be in three different places at the same time, the concerts don't begin and end at the same hour, and there is time involved in reaching venues. They are happy that you showed up to listen to them when there is so much music out there.
Prashant,
I am with you when it comes to intermission in a CM concert. The flow can get impeded. It works with HM because it comes after tackling two rAgAs for nearly two hours. RasikAs rest, have some refreshments perhaps, when the artistes take a break as well.
Appam,
I don't think speeches are essential or are formalities to be observed. They are more a habit which we do not want to shed. Yes, a vote of thanks is fine, if 'a few words' are spoken. Introducing the artistes can be done with a simple printed piece of paper which is not even necessary in a temple concert, for instance.
Speeches are fine from a scholar in a thematic concert when he or she educates us about the theme, and the performance which follows is not long. It is better if it is advertised so in the papers (sabha brochures) so that those who plan on coming know what to expect.
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Nick H
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03
Once again, although I agree absolutely with statements about respect for the music and the artists (I guess I've even made a few), I want to reiterate the currently forgotten point abouit respect for one's fellow audience members.
Let me put it this way: if you are a thani-escaper, I am not going to move my feet while you disturb my thani enjoyment. I don't care if you fall on your nose. And don't care if you are 8, 28, or 88! 88 just means that you have had more years of being rude, not that I should give respect.
Introducing the artists can be done with a sign board. It can also be done, very effectively, by a few words from the main artist, either just after the varnum, or just before mangalam.
Of course, not all artists are immune from verbosity, but hey! we live in an imperfect world!!!
Let me put it this way: if you are a thani-escaper, I am not going to move my feet while you disturb my thani enjoyment. I don't care if you fall on your nose. And don't care if you are 8, 28, or 88! 88 just means that you have had more years of being rude, not that I should give respect.
Introducing the artists can be done with a sign board. It can also be done, very effectively, by a few words from the main artist, either just after the varnum, or just before mangalam.
Of course, not all artists are immune from verbosity, but hey! we live in an imperfect world!!!
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prashant
- Posts: 1658
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:01
When I am in Chennai during the season, sometimes I have no choice but to leave an afternoon concert in order to catch one of my favorite senior artistes in the early evening slot. I usually sit at the back in that case and make an unobtrusive exit [given my propensity for tripping over my own feet regularly and at the most inopportune moment, 'unobtrusive' is to be taken with a pinch of saltnick H wrote:What about concert-hopping in the season? Do we make any exception for this as part of the nature of the event? Or do we feel that the same rule should be applied twelve months a year?
]. One pet peeve of mine in Chennai is a specimen of rasikas who seems to be a fixture at mid-morning or early afternoon concerts. This is generally an octogenarian who comes to the concert with a full slate of reading material - that day's dailies in English and Tamil, plus some magazines like Ananda Vikatan or Kumudam if the news does not grip. Until this point, I am OK with it, but when the newspaper is expansively folded and refolded with a flourish in the air, or when the magazine pages are turned with crackling gusto, is when the unfortunate rasika gets my patented finger tap on the shoulder.
I was at a rollicking concert by Sriram Gangadharan a couple years ago at NGS mini when this specimen surfaced, in the second row, that too. The father of one of today's popular violinist-turned-vocalist duos was in the audience and had to be physically restrained from inflicting extensive bodily harm on this gentleman, even after confiscating his reading material with some crisp verbiage which would have done a Chennai rickshaw-wallah proud. As Sri Gangadharan continued his bhairavi, the poor disposessed rasika was left with the choice of appreciating an excellent niraval at kapaTa nATaka or falling into a sound slumber. I leave it up to you to guess which alternative he chose!
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Nick H
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03
--- I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has almost been moved to violence by this kind of behaviour!But these days, I regard it as a yoga, to ignore the idiots and not let them break my concentration. It will probably take me many years to accomplish this.
Frankly: audience behaviour is largely in the hands of our music teachers, in many cases also the artists themselves. They are the ones who not only can, but, in my view, should be changing the future.
Of course, we desperately need those youngsters if there is to be a future at all, but if they grow up believing that the concert hall is the place to practice accompanying the raga, learning the krithi, and bruising their thighs with the talam then I wonder if it is going to be worth it.
I attended a concert a few months ago where there were a number of youngsters, I assume students of the performer, multi-national too --- the putting of talam made it more like listening to music to the accompaniment of troops marching. I shall never forget that rupaka talam: Slam! Slam! Rest; Slam! Slam! Rest.
Except, of course, that troops would have been more accurate!!!!
Please, teachers, for there must be more than a few of you who follow this forum, help us out by reminding your students to sit still and shut up during concerts?
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rajeshnat
- Posts: 10147
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04
Here is one tip that I generally like to follow . We all have a tendency to talk ,if I go with any one else in my family or friend circle(which is haley's comet miracle) , I try to leave a seat empty in between me and the next person or sit one row behind .That way we all do not have an inclination to talk more.
When I go alone in a sabha, I prefer to give atleast 4 rows of gap .
Ofcourse the above two works only you have empty seats which unfortunately
is more true nowadays.
When I go alone in a sabha, I prefer to give atleast 4 rows of gap .
Ofcourse the above two works only you have empty seats which unfortunately
is more true nowadays.
Last edited by rajeshnat on 30 May 2008, 20:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Nick H
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03
No, not at all! I think you misunderstand me --- probably I didn't express it properly.
Music may be a serious and difficult study, but the class room can certainly be interesting and fun for the students, at whatever age, right from the little-est ones. Even practice at home should be more than mere toil, though if it was only pure joy then discipline would not be one of the needed attributes.
We are talking about concert behaviour and etiquette. Would you not agree that the music teachers are the best-placed to pass such teaching onto the next generations? They can do so very pleasantly and nicely, though the development of good quality in youngsters tends to sometimes require sharpness.
Let them learn and recognise, teachers and students both, that class room is different to concert hall, and let us all enjoy our beloved music in peace.
Music may be a serious and difficult study, but the class room can certainly be interesting and fun for the students, at whatever age, right from the little-est ones. Even practice at home should be more than mere toil, though if it was only pure joy then discipline would not be one of the needed attributes.
We are talking about concert behaviour and etiquette. Would you not agree that the music teachers are the best-placed to pass such teaching onto the next generations? They can do so very pleasantly and nicely, though the development of good quality in youngsters tends to sometimes require sharpness.
Let them learn and recognise, teachers and students both, that class room is different to concert hall, and let us all enjoy our beloved music in peace.
Last edited by Guest on 30 May 2008, 20:20, edited 1 time in total.
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appam
- Posts: 44
- Joined: 27 May 2007, 15:17
nick H and arasi
Speeches r meant mostly to thank the sponsors without whose support many concerts cannot be had.In that sense it becomes essential.
To have continued support for the organisers from the sponsors they have to thank and honour them with a small token momento or whatever becomes a necessity.They r also asked to garland the artists and all these cannot be done away with.Only we can hope that these r done in as much short time as possible.
Speeches r meant mostly to thank the sponsors without whose support many concerts cannot be had.In that sense it becomes essential.
To have continued support for the organisers from the sponsors they have to thank and honour them with a small token momento or whatever becomes a necessity.They r also asked to garland the artists and all these cannot be done away with.Only we can hope that these r done in as much short time as possible.
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arasi
- Posts: 16877
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
Exactly. That is where a speech (a few words) belong.
Thanking the sponsors (of course), thanking the artistes--which works in the place of an intro, garlanding--yes! We like that--by sponsors too, by all means! That is when the artistes and audience can relax and enjoy the interlude. At the end--before mangaLam. Not before tukkaDAs. This way, the tukkaDA time exits and performer's flowing into tukkaDA mode can go uninterrupted.
Thanking the sponsors (of course), thanking the artistes--which works in the place of an intro, garlanding--yes! We like that--by sponsors too, by all means! That is when the artistes and audience can relax and enjoy the interlude. At the end--before mangaLam. Not before tukkaDAs. This way, the tukkaDA time exits and performer's flowing into tukkaDA mode can go uninterrupted.