DD Podigai telecast of Ganesh Kumaresh Violin Programme - Ju

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 07 Jul 2008, 11:53

This is regarding the telecast of the excerpts from the 161st Thyagaraja Aradhana concert series held at Thiruvaiyyaru earlier this year.

On Saturday - July 5th, DD Podigai telecast a program of Sri. P. Unnikrishnan for about 30 mins followed by Ganesh-Kumaresh Violin duet.

This post is about the latter program - Ganesh Kumaresh Violin, mridangam, probably ghatam (dont recall), kanjeera, mohrsing, and SIVAMANI on some instrument

This is NOT about the quality of the music provided. I do not care about the violin program of the brothers, since their music does not appeal to me, hence do not wish to comment about it. This post is about what happened there.

They played a tavamEruga tarama at a breakneck speed. Then settled for an alapana of hindOLam. All through the alapana, Sivamani gave a "ching" "ching" sound using some metal rod at regular intervals. During the alapana, he was shown wearing an armour like thing over himself. After the alapana, traversing over N octaves, not a big deal for a violin - but drawing stupendous applause from the audience (Uff) there was the song - then the customary thani Avartanam.

The whole 20-30 mins was NOTHING short of a circus. The ring master Kunnakudi was enjoying the same and so was the audience. Sivamani was dressed in a headgear with a ear ring dangling from one ear. The tani Avaratnam was probably very technical and aesthetic.

I have the problem with - the attitude -

it reflected ZERO regard for the music.
It reeked of serious showmanship attitude,
there was NO regard for the solemn occasion (an Aradhana function - indicating a death anniversary observance),
there was no regard for etiquette - you would not wear such a dress like Sivamani for a funeral or a solemn occasion. What would have happened if he removed his head gear and ear ring for participating in this aradhana?

No one is imposing a dress code of veshti, vibhuti or namam or angavastram, but BASIC dress code should be there to suit the occassion. Why should Sivamani be allowed to perform with whatever instrument he did? If he were to perform, he could have played any conventional percussion instrument that he is known to play.

I have no problem with the exact same concert with same kind of music occuring at a Sabha anywhere in the world including Thiruvaiyyaru, but I have a SERIOUS issue with it happening on the occasion of the Aradhana function. When one comes to a Aradhana concert at Thiruvaiyyaru, one EXPECTS certain things, in terms of music, certainly NOT what was dished out. Would you go to a masjid or a dargah like Ajmer or Nagore without a head scarf - NO right, same philosophy. As an audience, would you not go to a Western concert in the proper attire? Would any Hindustani musician dare to do such a thing at the Gandharva Festival or Tansen Festival? No, they dare not.

Then why is this "All OK" attitude acceptable in South Indian music. In fact, the audience is more to blame for this crap. They get what they deserve. If you demand serious stuff, you will get it. If not, you will get only what the musicians think is Carnatic music. For each one - music means a different thing, the audience at the aradhana should have booed this circus.

Kunnakudi owes a public apology for this nonsense. He may have hurt sentiments of 100s of people like me, many of whom may not have an opening to vent their feelings.
Ganesh Kumaresh, Sivamani also owe a public apology for this crap they dished out.

The Thyagabrahama Aradhana board (I may have the name wrong - but I refer to the body which is at the helm of adffairs there) needs a complete overhaul. This JOKER (kunnakudi) should be booted out literally and more serious musicians who value music should be at the helm of affairs. I do not mind taking names - Krishna, Vijay Siva, Sanjay, Neyveli, Sowmya, Jayashri, etc. Even if each one has a different philosophy on what music means to him/her, atleast these people will respect the MUSIC and not reduce it to a circus. WHy cannot normal public do anything to change things there, is it so difficult?

What happened on that day is unpardonable. I may be over reacting - but I spoke to 3-4 people , who shared the same feelings. Again, I repeat, I have no problem with such music happening in a sabha concert, for which I may not go, but I have a SERIOUS problem with what happened on the occasion of a Aradhana programme at the Samadhi.

As an aside - On 26th May 2008, my family went to Kalyanapuram - a town on the banks of Cauvery - 2 kms from Thiruvaiyyaru. This was our kula deivam temple, where we performed the tonsure ceremony of my son, who was 17 months old then. On our way back, we went to the Samadhi of Sri. Thyagaraja to pay our respects. My wife and I sang 4 songs. It was 2:30 pm and the priests were resting. The sannidhanam was shut for the afternoon. After hearing us sing while doing pradakshanam - the Gurukal woke up, opened the door of the sanctum and performed deeparadhanai for the idol. He asked us to sit and sing and gave us veebhuti. My 17 month son, with folded hands sang what he could - Ma ma paa. I feel this was a far better aradhana than what was dished out on TV couple of days ago!

Poor Thyagaraja - my wife said - he would not have turned in his grave, he would gone much deeper inside so that he does not hear this "music"

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 07 Jul 2008, 12:17

Other comments of yours are OK, but I think introducing a new instrument should not be discouraged, if it is played conforming to important standards. We all appreciate the violin or the mandolin, for example.

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 07 Jul 2008, 12:42

New instruments are fine as long as they embellish or atleast do not sacrifice the existing framework for music. They should not make this a rock concert just for publicity

Again, I say - the same music is OK in a sabha, All i say is it is NOT OK in the Samadhi.

Purist · Post by **Purist** » 07 Jul 2008, 13:37

arunsri's account of the violin concert at Thiruvaiyur is very disturbing. As he rightly puts it is a attitude
problem. Utter disregard to the sanctity of the place, being oblivious of the occassion and enamoured with media attention are things that rule the roast (prevalent with this class of people).
Sangita Gnyanamu BHAKTI VINA... Where there is no humility..there is no Bhakti ..and where there is
no Bhakti ..there is no Sangeetham.

manvantara · Post by **manvantara** » 07 Jul 2008, 13:57

arunsri, I agree with you - that we need to follow an etiquette and act with dignity. But should not these come from within? Do we need someone *else* to tell us? It is sad that musicians, who generally have to be disciplined in their practice to reach performing standards, fall prey to gimmicks and the yearning to outdo someone else and the desire to be flashy and loud. It is a real pity that dignity is disappearing fast these days.

Also, I too am intrigued when I see how a Hindustani musician presents himself/herself and how a CM does so - I know I am generalizing here, but there certainly seems to be more dignity, more bhakti in a HM presentation. At the Chicago Thyagaraja Uthsavam, the concert by the Gundecha brothers was in stark contrast to the other CM ones - they were very professional and very bhakti oriented and not distracted by their environment - their only focus seemed to be on the singing, which is how it should be.

I don't think it is possible to write down the rules for attire - or maybe there is - if so, we need to pursue that and ensure that our artistes understand just how important it is. They need to know that the audience is not only listening but also watching......while we don't expect them to be super human beings, we expect at least some decent, dignified standards from them!

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 07 Jul 2008, 14:08

arunsri,, you cant be more specific and hit the nail on the head....

Then why is this "All OK" attitude acceptable in South Indian music. In fact, the audience is more to blame for this crap. They get what they deserve. If you demand serious stuff, you will get it. If not, you will get only what the musicians think is Carnatic music. For each one - music means a different thing, the audience at the aradhana should have booed this circus.

beautifully said.. as you mentioned previously, i am one of those who din have the guts to speak out this much publicly about this... even i saw this programme and it just looked like a play staged by absurds..

cant agree more with you

saravanan · Post by **saravanan** » 07 Jul 2008, 15:04

I fully support Arunsri sir'scomment.It was appalling site to see what the GK gang was doing on stage.What a public insult by the artists to the great saint.Hmm !!

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 07 Jul 2008, 15:19

Again, I say - the same music is OK in a sabha, All i say is it is NOT OK in the Samadhi.

Was this a Tyagaraja aaraadhanai? Well, I've been to only one of those, and there were no AlApanais or tanis there, I think that's how it should be. (Needless to say there were no neravals and svarams either.) I have seen two of those who performed that day give concerts, one of them even played an RTP in his concert â€” so they can both produce excellent AlApanais, neravals, kOrvais and whatnots.
But in an Araadhanai, we are remembering the composer, one should sing / perform just his works, so why present one's own music?

Improvisation provides the starting point for doing whatever one wants in an Araadhanai. After all, in an AlApanai, we have no restriction not to cross the range of the song or anything! And without improvising, people who just want to show off would be discouraged right away.

If the AlApanai were not allowed, tattvameruga taramA could be played at a more suitable tempo â€” for a start, assuming the speed was due to lack of time.

tyagarajadasa · Post by **tyagarajadasa** » 07 Jul 2008, 16:01

Arun Anna....your post reflects exactly what I had in mind about the programme. I think rasikas in the world of Carnatic music should wake up and put a stop to such adulteration of values. These values as Anna has mentioned are the strongholds on which our music rests. If we have to protect the sanctity of our music then we must definitely protect the trditions that our elders(who were not a bunch of fools) have taught us and take care that they are passed on to the future generations.
On a very light note, I prefer to call kunnakudi Red Signal!

(NO OFFENCES MEANT)

malavi · Post by **malavi** » 07 Jul 2008, 17:39

While this topic is being discussed i wish to point out a few things observed during the singing of Pancharatna keerthanais.everyone wants to sit in the front row and face the TV cameras.some of the lady artists dress up as if they are attending a wedding.once there was an article in anandavikatan regarding their makeup lipstick etc.Quality of Pancharatnam singing is really going down every year.
During chembai music festival in Guruvayoor one should see the people of kerala.They dress according to their custom, esp.kerala artists.we feel a devine quality.hope our artists also learn a few things from them.

shankarabharanam · Post by **shankarabharanam** » 07 Jul 2008, 19:33

Tyagaraja Aradhana has become a public stunt...I know a relative who had been said, "Naan TV la vandhen nee Pataya" (I came on TV, did u see me?) Coming to the current topic which is under discussion, i saw it too...I condemn it...Any new format should be tried in Sabha or there are kalayana kutcheries where it really doesn't matter what u sing or play...But considering the occasion, I think senior artist who performed should have realised it themselves. We have been talking about the quality of aradhana, but nothing seems to change really...I think finally sir, it is better to go to the Samadhi sing, to our hearts content and come back...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 07 Jul 2008, 21:54

I had the occasion to say this elsewhere, recently. I repeat:
This is a terrible example of life imitating art--cheap art at that--the cinema and television--not the best aspects in them, either. In the process, the venue, occasion, the celebrant and music are all forgotten..
The public cannot wholly be blamed for this. Like an addiction, they get hooked on to cheap entertainment which is fed to them liberally, on a daily basis...

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 07 Jul 2008, 23:11

Ahahaha!

madhavan · Post by **madhavan** » 08 Jul 2008, 11:18

I fully agree with Arunsriâ€™s comment. I did watch the telecast and it was a total â€œfarceâ€

Purist · Post by **Purist** » 08 Jul 2008, 12:03

Well said Madavan. It's great pity, the people involved are, all in the field of music for several years
and no new comers. The protagonists of "innovation" can go any far. Its high time the Aradhana Committee
does some introspection and restore diginity . It should not hesitate even to set norms if respect
and concern are not forthcoming voluntarily

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 08 Jul 2008, 14:05

It is quite OK to vent here but if you want to do something "constructive" it may be better to write to both the TV station and Aradhana committee and may be the Hindu also or discuss it personally with Shri Kunnakudy who I believe is very accessible.

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 08 Jul 2008, 16:17

SureshVV

This post on Rasikas was with with the hope that some serious musicians who see this realise that people do care, and try to do something about the circus that happens there. Usually musicians do read these reviews and follow a lot of the discussion that happens here quietly.

Seriously, I would like to write to the Aradhana Committe or Kunnakudi - but one person writing will not help, right. Also, I do not know where / whom to write to. Something which is more channelised than individualistic should be there to make any difference.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 08 Jul 2008, 23:39

Arunsri...

Frankly I wouldn't hold my breath for people who "follow this discussion quietly" to do a whole lot about this. It is also not a big secret that these events happen, especially when they are happening over the air waves

May be you can craft an "open letter" to the organizers/podhigai channel with the help of others here sharing similar sentiments, and have it signed by all published in the Hindu?

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 09 Jul 2008, 00:29

arunsri wrote:SureshVV

This post on Rasikas was with with the hope that some serious musicians who see this realise that people do care

Yes , I agree that the Rasikas Forum may sometimes serve as an instrument for change. I remember the discussions on poor maintainence of toilets in various Sabhas and also Nick pointing out subsequently that one leading Sabha had indeed started keeping the wash rooms sparkling clean !

Whether this change was due to the thread in Rasikas.Org we will never know. But nothing stops us from assuming so

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 09 Jul 2008, 02:35

sureshvv wrote:May be you can craft an "open letter" to the organizers/podhigai channel with the help of others here sharing similar sentiments, and have it signed by all published in the Hindu?

Very good idea. Lets organize a petition signature campaign with a minimum of 100 people signing it, and send it to leading newspapers for the required effect.

I am sure its not hard to locate 100 people in South India from within ourselves.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 09 Jul 2008, 04:32

I didn't believe how bad it could be till I saw this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vlg2cEXOOE

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 09 Jul 2008, 04:50

Mahavishnu, thanks for the link;I did see the programme which is being talked about.
But my thanks are not for that; I happened to see another video-'Mammootty's advice'-such a beautiful one!
It more than removed all the bad taste in the mouth left by the earlier video.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 09 Jul 2008, 05:01

srkris wrote:Very good idea. Lets organize a petition signature campaign with a minimum of 100 people signing it, and send it to leading newspapers for the required effect

There are several 'online petition' applications which you can use as well.

vanamali · Post by **vanamali** » 09 Jul 2008, 08:58

Ridiculous! This is not something expected in the samadhi of the great saint!! Though i dont follow their (Ganesh Kumaresh) music i knew it was getting to be more 'filmy' nowadays with a lot of gimmics etc... but this is highly unpardonable.

Please go ahead with the signature campaign, we are all with you.

suma · Post by **suma** » 10 Jul 2008, 07:22

Bahula Panchami Aradhana at Thiruvaiyaru reminds one of MS Amma's devotional rendering of Thyagaraja Krithis, Semmengudu mama's rendition with utmost Bhakti. I could still feel the presence of a divine force when I visited the sammadhi on January 3rd. May God help to maintain the Sanctity and Divinity of the Shrine and Aradhana. May the traditions be upheld in such a way that many generations from now still feel the divine vibes and purity at the sammadhi. Please add my signature to the cause of upholding OUR traditions and values at the Sammadhi.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 10 Jul 2008, 08:44

I watched that ridiculous video. I have no words.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 10 Jul 2008, 10:30

The petition is located at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/thyagaraja

Those who agree with it may please add their comments and sign it.

Thanks.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 10 Jul 2008, 11:00

srkris,
I have signed the petition. I am not very comfortable with the words 'death anniversary'. He was a jIvanmukta - that is why Aradhana.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 10 Jul 2008, 11:20

It looks like I am in the minority and sorry to sound the discordant note here. I thought the original poster's issues were mainly with Sivamani's dress which definitely does not fit the occasion. I understand that. May be the petition should be about the dress code ( dress should reflect the simplicity and minimalism that Tyagaraja stood for and consistent with carnatic musical traditions ) or may be even that an 'unproven' instrument is used on an experimental basis on a stage that is meant for displaying tradition rather than experimentation. On the musical aspects, I watched the youtube video. If I close my eyes and just listen, it sounds like any other thani avarthanam, though very energetic. I thought the drum set sounds were not that out of place. Most of the time, it is thavil that dominated the proceedings.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 10 Jul 2008, 11:24

vasantakokilam - I agree with you, from the clip apart from Sivamani's dress (which is pretty much his standard attire everywhere), I didn't have a major problem with the thani avartanam. I am not sure what exactly took place during the other part of the concert.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 10 Jul 2008, 12:09

VK /Mohan. It is just not the dress of Sivamani that matters. It is the attitude of the performers / organisers . Thygaraja ardhana is not place show case your "vidwat" or your ability to "innovate" . This is not a place for gimmicks and (con)fusion. As the orginal poster noted there is nothing wrong if the program was conducted elsewhere.

Infact many veterans never used to sing detailed alapanas or play long tanis but instead use the time to sing as many kritis as possible.

I do feel that petition could be more specific

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 10 Jul 2008, 12:21

We can reword the petition if necessary.

Well the clothing is a trivial issue. What was being shown by that video is a complete insensitivity to an Aradhana. What we saw there did not look like an aradhana performance.

It appeared like a frenzied show of un(musical) extravaganza. It was not a thani avarthanam. Any kind of drum-play does not become a thani avarthanam. It was like some rock concert, and would probably be considered acceptable if it were not a Thyagaraja Aradhana.

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 10 Jul 2008, 13:32

Pathetic!! Its very sad to see artistes 'using' the Aradhana for such purposes and surprising that there hasn't been much spoken against this by other artistes.
Sathej

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 10 Jul 2008, 13:54

I would be more comfortable if we just say:

We the undersigned request the organizers and Podhigai TV channel to treat the Aradhana as a solemn occasion to pay homage to Sri Thyagaraja and not schedule purely "entertainment" events such as the Ganesh, Kumaresh, Sivamani concert at his event.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 10 Jul 2008, 14:42

I agree with rajumds. Can we please provide specific examples in the petition? I do not think there is anything wrong with naming names there. As for the thani, I do think it was cheap showmanship which undercut the solemnity the Aradhana should have.

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 10 Jul 2008, 16:53

The post was to highlight the tamasha that was happening. In all probability, the tani was stupendous and probably very scholarly. I bow to them for their vidwat.

But as I said in the first post

- the choice of venue and stage for this kind of 'un'musical exhibition is wrong. Do it in a Sabha, NO PROBLEM.
- the dress code of Sivamani reeks of defiance to any convention that is followed even in standard concerts.
- the showmanship attitude is cheap considering the occasion. Giving a smile with contempt after the alapana is cheap. It is not that he played a rakti ragam like mukhari, begada, yadukula kambhoji skilfully. It was hindolam - that too the standard one expected from any violinist.
- playing ching ching on whatever you want to call it (by Sivamani), during the alapana is cheap.
- Kunnakudi on stage shamelessly nodding his head to this music in approval is the worst. It is he who is to be blamed for this mess, he has singlehandedly ruined the Aradhana. If he had set rules and seen to it that they got implemented, why will such a thing even happen. Were not Aradhana functions upto some standard till he came? Were Aradhana concerts upto even early 1990s not respected, and looked forward to? Then why such crap nowadays. He is the singular cause for dilution of the whole event. Infact, instead of holding such a function, it is better not to perform an aradhana.

Atleast have some respect for the audience consider the venue as sacred. The musicians may not, but atleast "act" for the sake of acting and present dignified music. No need to dress up in veshti, angavastram, vibhuti, namam etc. But the music can be for music. G-K, Sivamani et al. have all the remaining 364 concerts (assuming they perform one concert a day) to show off.

Of course, if one does not want to accept convention, tradition and argue - then the concert is justified.

Secondly, the petition, if possible can highlight the disgust at the attitude of the Aradhana committee. In fact, DD is showing what the Aradhana committee had lined up as the programme. Why even blame DD?

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 10 Jul 2008, 16:55

Hope these four or five points can be put in the petition to make it more 'specific'

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 10 Jul 2008, 17:46

The petition has been updated with the specifics.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 10 Jul 2008, 18:25

What will we do with this petition when there are enough signatories?

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 10 Jul 2008, 19:29

Our teacher always says that one must use ones vidvat to project the kritis of great composers and NOT use the works of great composers to project ones vidvat (whether in a regular concert or ArAdhanA).
I realised the true meaning of it when I saw this video.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 10 Jul 2008, 21:05

Please include the point that there should be no improvisation whatsoever, only the kriti/s (as per paathaantaram) should be sung or played. Improvisation provides the starting point for showing off one's own creativity instead of remembering the composer's creativity.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 10 Jul 2008, 22:58

srikant1987 wrote:Please include the point that there should be no improvisation whatsoever, only the kriti/s (as per paathaantaram) should be sung or played. Improvisation provides the starting point for showing off one's own creativity instead of remembering the composer's creativity.

Obviously improvisation will be there for any carnatic musician, but this is not improvisation.

dhanyasi · Post by **dhanyasi** » 11 Jul 2008, 02:34

I donâ€™t quite get it.
Let me begin by stating that I am not - not at all a fan of Kunnakudi (unless he plays "china rasa ve")..but arenâ€™t we being a bit if a hypocrites here. From the post I gather two main complains.. one of them is Sivamani's dress ..given the fact that it was worn in the Samadhi of the saint Thyagaraja. Here is my question if the man (Thyagaraja) was alive today would he rather accept Sivamani's dress code or the dress code of a well accepted vocalist wearing a traditional silk sari which is a result of a cold blooded murder of some N silk worms who were peacefully sleeping in their cocoon which we probably would accept todayâ€¦
Coming to the music itself we are questioning the drumsâ€¦ when the main instrument the violin itself was a borrowed concept from the western systemâ€¦ what ever happened to the veena and accompaniment on the veena.. it seems to be the thing of the pastâ€¦ yet we accept it.
To note another example, today we accept people singing Dikshitar's "Srimahaganapatim" (ragam gaula) at lightning speed in chapu tala, where as the original tune (according to SSP and other schools like the Dhanammal school) is a slow tisra tripta tala. People today will fire out a rapid Srimahaganapatim in chapu on Dikshitar's face if he has to walk in todayâ€¦ I donâ€™t think dikshitar ever composed in chapu â€¦but yet we accept itâ€¦ now we have some problems with cling-klangs in the musicâ€¦.
Thiruvaiaru is not the traditional Mylapore where a few learned people go in the evening to listen to "classica music" and discuss the difference between Manji and Mukari.. or the other few who go just to listen "kurai ondrm illai" and "sambo mahadeva"â€¦ look at the crowd in the video at thiruvaiaruâ€¦. Some of these people are farmers and if drums sivamani can get them to nod.. that is the least of our problemsâ€¦

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 11 Jul 2008, 02:54

Dhanyasi:

1. The attire in an Aradhana is a secondary (although significant) issue. Where do you draw the line? Somewhere the line has to be drawn without infringing unduly on personal preferences of the performers concerned.
2. We are not questioning the drums. We are questioning the type and standard of music that is dished out under the name of carnatic music (specifically at the solemn occasion of the Thiruvaiyaru Aradhana, although it might be acceptable elsewhere).
3. Let us forget singing Dikshitar kritis in various kaalas... thats irrelevant to this issue.
4. How easily you dismiss the invisible crowd that is expressing its anguish; and give importance to the crowd (say farmers) that will just assemble there come what may just out of curiosity. The aradhana is not for people who dont look forward to it.

Let me state here that we are in such a sorry state of affairs in India simply because no one dares to stand up for anything... so anything goes... and no one can pass judgements how a Thiruvaiyaru Thyagaraja Aradhana should be conducted, because its none of our problem.

Is that it?

dhanyasi · Post by **dhanyasi** » 11 Jul 2008, 03:13

Srikis
Here is my basic question who decides the standard of the music..... if it was let to me i would put a moratorium on certain songs, samaja varagama (hindolam) for example for the next 10 years because it is been overly sung at the expense of songs like kara baru (mukari).. but that is my personal preference and I cannot set that as a standard... probably 50 years from now drums might be the standard accompaniyng instrument.. as violin is today(replacing veena) or as we accept dikshitar's songs in chapu..... I am not questioning the right to comment or pass judgement.... trust me I would be the first in line to say the aradhana need an overhaul.. but i want to point out some other issues that we ignore....

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Jul 2008, 03:39

On the musical aspects ( close your eyes and listen test ), let us examine what our issues are ( without taking any sides on my part, this is just a list):

1) Is thani avarthanam itself not appropriate for that occasion? This is during the day I suppose and not the nightly concert. So in that half an hour allocated to an artist, I guess it is fair game to stipulate no thani or alapanai, niraval or kalpanaswaram. As long as it is stipulated and uniformly followed, that sounds fine to me, there is atleast a rationale.

2) If that is not it, then is the problem with this particular ensemble of instruments and type of beat patterns they played? In one little segment, it does sound like 'funeral procession kottu' it is not just due to the Drum set. All the instruments are playing the same pattern pretty much. I understand if the objection is to that specific place. But otherwise, this sounds like a typical thani Koraippu followed by farans and the standard ending Korvai.

3) Are we objecting to the specific nature of the sounds coming from the drumset? Here is where I have a different opinion. Except for the occasional hitting of the symbols thus producing the metallic sounds ( like in a nadaswaram concert except much louder ), the drum set sounds are quite muted and goes well along with the rest of the instruments. In fact, the thavil dominates the whole thing so much, in many places I can not even hear the drum set sound. Granted, at the end, when everybody joins, there is a lot of noise. But I do not think we can blame it squarely on the drum set. This sort of happens in a full bench thani many times. Many people like it for the excitment it creates. Again, if we are objecting to that kind of excitement on the aradhana stage, that sounds like fair game to petition against. This aspect of it is covered properly in the petition, namely the apparent unsuitability of a celebratory atmosphere that is created.

4) Personally I would modify the words "This involved among other things, drumming that is more popularly used in rock and death-metal concerts in the west. Such kind of mindless drumming in South India is more used in funeral processions than in classical concerts, and thats exactly what we could glean here too" This is because the description of the use of drum set is not 100% correct ( it is used in less noisy type of music as well where musicality matters ).

Having said all this and analyzed it in detail, I think most of us have a not-so-comfortable feeling when we "see" such unusual and out-of-place things on that much revered stage. That takes us out of our comfort zone, It is hard to explain all the reasons for it, it just does not feel right. This is one of those things.

S.Govindaswamy · Post by **S.Govindaswamy** » 11 Jul 2008, 06:34

In comparison to the highly deplorable performance of Ganesh , Kumaresh Circus I wish to draw the attention of raskas to the following.
Few days ago Podigai TV telecast the singing of Jesudas. What a difference from the irreverent performance of this group of Ganesh, Kumaresh, Valayapatti .who along with Kunnakkudi Vaidyanathan is also a secretary of the Aradhana committee, and the pop music drummer, Shivamani.
Within the allotted time Jesudas sang a number of kritis fully (i.e) all the caraNams. He had a laptap in front of him. Many of the songs are rare ones and some of them were in rare ragas. I had to hurriedly search in my books and open the song to follow the same. His pronunciation of Telugu and Sanskrit was impeccable and will put to shame even some of the Telugu singers, not to speak about Tamil musicians. There was no AlApanA or swara singing. There was total commitment and devotion in his attitude. He has set an example to people like G,K and the circus.whose show reminded me of what tyAgarAjA has said in the kriti 'svara rAga sudhA rasa yuta bhakti ', particularly caraNam 3.
maddala tALa gatulu teliyakanE mardiJcuTa sukhamA
zuddha manasu lEka pUja jEyuTa
sUkara vRttirA O manasA
Govindaswamy

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 11 Jul 2008, 06:56

Srkris wrote:Obviously improvisation will be there for any carnatic musician, but this is not improvisation

Improvisation is there for a musician who performs (in sabhas, for example), to win appreciation, fame and wealth in exchange for a display of his / her creativity.

And most composers have written songs with considerably rich music, such that merely performing them accurately is an achievement. But even that's beside the point, for performing in an aradhana is not to display one's own achievements.

Dhanyasi wrote:Here is my question if the man (Thyagaraja) was alive today would he rather accept Sivamani's dress code or the dress code of a well accepted vocalist wearing a traditional silk sari which is a result of a cold blooded murder of some N silk worms who were peacefully sleeping in their cocoon which we probably would accept todayâ€¦
Coming to the music itself we are questioning the drumsâ€¦ when the main instrument the violin itself was a borrowed concept from the western systemâ€¦ what ever happened to the veena and accompaniment on the veena.. it seems to be the thing of the pastâ€¦ yet we accept it.

Your point with silk is very good, and I always find it an issue. And drums are probably better than the mridangam, the kanjeera and the thavil, which are all made of animal skin! Afaik drums use plastic, wood and metal. Correct me if I'm wrong. It seems mridangam used to be made of clay earlier, I wonder when they started using animal skin!

And I have already said, I wouldn't dislike a new instrument quickly. FURTHER, the thani was apparently (from the video) led by the thavil vidwan and not by Sivamani. So he should bear the main responsibility for the quality of thani.

But -- except in the hands of Sivamani or some other expert drummer, I think the mechanism with which drums are played (using sticks) puts a serious limit on how fast it can be played.
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Coming back to silk, it's mainly women vidwans who wear it. Of course, some men wear silken veshtis (or even kurtas, I think Kunnakudi wears silk kurtas often) but usually it's cotton.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Jul 2008, 07:07

, the thani was apparently (from the video) led by the thavil vidwan and not by Sivamani. So he should bear the main responsibility for the quality of thani.

That is the impression I get as well.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 11 Jul 2008, 07:43

@ SRkris

S.Govindaswamy wrote:Within the allotted time Jesudas sang a number of kritis fully (i.e) all the caraNams. ... There was no AlApanA or swara singing.

You see? If Jesudas can do without AlApanais and svarams, so can G-K.