Neyveli SanthanagOpAlan@rAgasudha hall on July 07th,2008

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 09 Jul 2008, 22:55

Accompanied by vittal rAmamurthy - violin , mridhangam - mridhangam

and ghatam - sivarAmakrishnan

1. kuvalaya dhala nayanA (S) - nAttaikurinji - T
2. nE pOgaDA kuNTE (R,S)- varAli-T
3. bhakti biccamiyyavE (R,S)- shankarAbharanam - T

4.daya joocuTa kidi - ganavaridhi- T
5. daridaapulEka vEDitE(R,N,S) - sAveri- T
neraval in "valaci padamula nammitE"
6A. shree lalitE kanchi nagara(R,S,T) - bhairavi - annAsAmi sAstri ??
6B. tani

7. kOthandarAmam manisham (RS)- kOkilaaravam/kOkilapriyA - MD
8. karuna jUDu ninnu - shreerAgam - SS
9. pavamAna + mangalam kOsalEndrAya

The occassion of the concert was to release a book of Late A.Sundaresan's handwritten krithis with notation. I was very late but still on time to the concert.Shri neyveli announced before the concert that he would be rendering rare krithis as Shri Sundaresan always used to advice him so.

Hearing shri neyveli is not as electrifying as what it must have been in 90's and early 2000. Perhaps the most noticable aspect of that days neyveli to today's neyveli is his restraint in reaching upper octaves . However despite that minus, his madhayama kala manOdharmam is quite a treat .

The start of nAttaikurinji with a gentle descent of swaras was brilliant and perfect. varAli how distinct that would be if shri NSG had more voice weight there. The alAPana of shankarabharanam was brief and excellent and his rendition was nice . The next ganavaridhi was a fast no , if he did not announce I would have thought it was almost nAttai .

His madhyamakAla rendition was at his best in sAveri, the neraval with an excellent round of swaras was the most enjoyable to me. Easily sAveri was the top pick of the concert. Perhaps he could have given the tani there . His next rendition of bhairavi was an average one , the person next to me remarked why a sudden sag in tempo which was how I exactly felt. The rarest rendition followed in kOkilaaravam(I think Shri NSG wrongly informed the rAgam as kOkilAdhwani). Like his guru thanjAvur shankara iyer he ended in karuna jooda and was excellent .

Shri vittal was very good most of the time .Both The percussionist played quite aptly to shri NSG.The tani by bAlaji was just good , with very good support by the ghatam artist sivarAmakrishnan.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 10 Jul 2008, 02:37

Is the krithi in kOkilaaravam (though kOkiladhvani also means the same)-kOtaNdarAmamanisham or kOtaNdarAmam manisham?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jul 2008, 03:20

Rajesh,
Thank you for your review with iraTTai mrudanagam (mrudangam by mridhangam) in place of iraTTai nAyanam!
A rich song list and one of my favorite songs 'daridApu lEka' too. Did Sriranjini sing with him?

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 10 Jul 2008, 09:08

punarvasu,
kOkilaaravam is the asampoorna equivalent of kOkilapriya(melakarthA #11) .kOkiladhwani is janya of harikAmbOdhi.Refer url http://www.karnatik.com/ragask.shtml#kOkilapriyA.
You are right the krithi is kOtaNdarAmamanisham , not kOtaNdarAmam manisham . I think I heard shri neyveli wrongly announcing the krithi as kOkiladhwani .Someone else can clarify.

arasi,
Shri neyveli's daughther did not accompany him. He had a sishya but there was no vocal support only stage support.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 10 Jul 2008, 09:44

rajeshnat,
I was just joking bec. meaningwise they are the same.
I think 'rava' in sanskrit means singing(of birds), roaring of animals etc; 'dhwani' also means more or less the same.
Raga hemavathy, in MSD's AMP, is called 'dEsisimhAravam' which means 'roar of the country lion'.(somebody may correct me if I am wrong)

saravanan · Post by **saravanan** » 10 Jul 2008, 12:44

Rajesh that was lovely one "Mridhangam - Mridhangam":lol:

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 10 Jul 2008, 13:35

rajeshnat wrote:punarvasu,
I think I heard shri neyveli wrongly announcing the krithi as kOkiladhwani .Someone else can clarify.

Indeed! I think it was a slip of the tongue.

madhavan · Post by **madhavan** » 10 Jul 2008, 14:21

This has reference to the function that was held just before the concert.

Smt.Gayathri Venkatraghavan is a good singer but she should have let the anchor job to another skillful person because the entire function was marred not only by her presentation but also by Smt.Vasumathi Desikan who took over the job from Smt.Gayathri for the reasons best known to them only.

I am not prepared to comment over the substance of the speech delivered by the guests and anchors on the occasion of Death Anniversary of Vidwan A.Sundaresan because nothing was worth mentioning. Therefore I just write about the role of the anchor persons.

Of late this has been in vogue that many anchors (women in particular) wrongly pronounce the following words!

Instead of Sundaresan mama it was wrongly pronounced as SundareSHUN mama, similarly instead of avar solluvar â€“ avar SHOLLUVAR
Avar sonnar â€“ avar SHONNAR
Aasirvadham AASHIRVADHAM

I request people to â€œshunâ€

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 10 Jul 2008, 19:19

BTW, is the rAgam 'kOkilAravam' or 'kOkilArNavam(as mentioned in another thread by Vasumaathy)?

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 10 Jul 2008, 20:04

madhavan wrote:

avar solluvar â€“ avar SHOLLUVAR
Avar sonnar â€“ avar SHONNAR
Aasirvadham AASHIRVADHAM

I agree with you about the two tamil words but the samskrt word should corrctly be transliterated as AshIrvAdam - not AshirvAdham
The majority of people overuse the alphabet h in transliterating tamil words.
For example they write indha but not indhu (a name).
thiththikkum is another word that has overuses h.
Other times h is not used where it should be - like writing sankar instead of shankar.
I don't want to start a controversy here but am merely pointing out that there is no consistency in the use of h in tamil words.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jul 2008, 20:22

Rajesh,
Two in a row of your 'specials'! First the 'double' mrudangam', and then this 'stage support versus vocal support'!

Punarvasu,
Yes, I caught on to what you were saying. aravam in tamizh is sound too.
'pESina pEchcharavam kETTilaiyO?'. dhvani and aravam...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 10 Jul 2008, 22:00

I suppose even Sundaresan should be pronounced with a "shun" since it is a short form of Sundareshwaran

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 10 Jul 2008, 22:52

Of late it has become a 'fashion'-so to say- to pronounce the words like 'sonnAr', solluvAr' etc. as 'shonnAr', 'sholluvAr'
AshIrvAdam is ok- as Arasi said.

Some people say 'chonnAr', 'cholluvAr'-that is another extreme!

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 10 Jul 2008, 22:55

chonnAr and cholluvAr are the correct pronounciations, but sonnAr and solluvAr are more common, so they are OK. But in many families shonnAr and sholluvAr are used, so you can't fault those people â€” you should just see if they speak that way too to know if that's the case, or they're doing it for fashion.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 10 Jul 2008, 23:32

These confusions arise (particularly to tamil speakers) due to them not being familiar with the uccAraNam for these aksharas in saMskRtam i.e., s, ś, sh, c, ch, j - all of which are written as c (i.e. ச) in tamil assuming the relevant characters from grantham (i.e ஸ, ஷ, ஶ, ஜ) are not used, as is common.

for example:

sundara = சுந்தர
śiva = சிவ
purusha = புருசன்
cidambaram = சிதம்பரம்
chandas = சந்தஸ்
rAja = அரசன்

Most carnatic singers of today are guilty of these phonetic transgressions (one exception is KJY with whom it is minimal). There are not enough knowledgeable people to object in good numbers, so anything goes in the name of bhakti/music.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 11 Jul 2008, 00:41

The Tamil fanatics shun thes letters as 'vadamozhi ezhuthukkaL'-Sanskrit letters.
As for 'arasan', may be it is 'rAsan and due to the rule in Tamil grammar that no noun begins with the letter'ra', it has become 'arasan', the 'rA' losing its 'dhIrgam'.
Other examples are-'rAmaswamy' is written as 'irAmaswAmy' or even as 'irAmsAmy''
ranganAtan as 'aranganAtan' etc.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 11 Jul 2008, 03:03

Punarvasu, I hope you were referring to tamils who are fanatics and not calling all tamils as fanatics.

Of course arasan is the tamil equivalent of rAja, this is why I used this example to point out ja becoming ச in tamil.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 11 Jul 2008, 03:31

srkris,
if I had sounded like I was calling all tamils as fanatics, I am .sorry.I was referring to those who are fanatic about Tamil language. I am a Tamilian myself .

Keshav54 · Post by **Keshav54** » 11 Jul 2008, 07:02

Regarding the homage functon to A.Sundaresan, Mr. Madhavan wrote it was a farce. In fact the homage to A.Sundaresan was organised by his disciples and family members with the sraddha and bhakti expected out of the dutiful. The fact that it was his first death anniversary and most appropriately conducted by his disciples is to be noted. The authority to perform a sraddham to parents is given only to their children. And just because a son is not able to pronounce the sanskrit mantras doesn't entite anybody else to do it.
And a musical homage function to a guru conducted by the disciples cannot be called a farce by any third person. And it is a disgrace that some people comment without any responsibility for what they say in this forum which is viewed by many,
A single detrimental opinion may not be the opinion of hundreds of people gathered there on 7th July, just to encourage these disciples. And the seniors who graced the occasion spoke with such genuine warmth about A.Sundaresan and showered those disciples with blessings, so...where is the question of Farce??

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 11 Jul 2008, 12:53

The authority to perform a sraddham to parents is given only to their children. And just because a son is not able to pronounce the sanskrit mantras doesn't entite anybody else to do it.

Well a srarddam has to be done with sradda . The son should make a conscious effort to understand the importance and do the same with utmost sincerity.

What I understand from Mahavan's post is that the organisers didn't do their home work. While the motive behind the function is laudable, it doesn't condone slip shod execution.

madhavan · Post by **madhavan** » 11 Jul 2008, 14:52

Keshav54,
My earlier comment was only about the role of anchors.

I have the highest regard and respect for late Vidwan A.Sundharesan mama and his work.

In fact, one of AS mamaâ€™s colleagues in railways recalled his days in office saying AS mama was always in research â€œsmaranaiâ€

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Jul 2008, 19:07

Yes, it was not about 'intent' at all.
When AS passed away, his students showed us the reverence and affection they have for their guru . The music shraddhAnjali they had, showed us how such an exemplary guru inspired them. The comments were not about their shraddhA at all!
rasikAs get impatient with late starts and long speeches--particularly when there is a concert they look forward to listening to. If they were to pay homage to their guru by inviting NSG to perform rare krutis, then, THAT becomes the focus of the evening. Yes, a brief speech to emphasize their guru's zeal for such krutis would have been appropriate. Other than that, it was the concert that mattered most.
Again, Madhavan's response was representative of what most rasikAs would have felt when they were subjected to an ineffective and prolonged prelude when the concert which was intended to highlight their master's special interest and the publication of his book, got delayed. It is natural for the audience to get irked by it all. No wonder, when the proceedings lacked crispness and brevity, the listeners have nothing much to do than to observe the flaws in a prolonged state of waiting. No, I am not saying that dedicated students should also be good speakers. Why give speeches (but for a brief intro) when the concert could have started earlier?
The shraddhA of the students wasn't commented upon at all. It was the proceedings. After all, we do comment on these things in concert reviews.
My guess is that equal opportunity to all shishyas (which is a good thing) was what resulted in this. Again, no one's fault. It is the unwanted 'tradition' of speech-giving which pervades our concerts.
Instead, how nice it would have been, if the students themselves had joined together to SING a few songs which their guru had taught them! That for an hour, and with a short intro, NSG's concert ushered in!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 12 Jul 2008, 00:34

madhavan wrote:...because the entire function was marred

...because nothing was worth mentioning.

...It was a total disgrace

...absolutely ridiculous.

...farce

Lighten up dude! Take a deep breath... aaah... thats it... let it out real slow now!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 12 Jul 2008, 00:53

arasi wrote:rasikAs get impatient with late starts and long speeches--particularly when there is a concert they look forward to listening to. If they were to pay homage to their guru by inviting NSG to perform rare krutis, then, THAT becomes the focus of the evening. Yes, a brief speech to emphasize their guru's zeal for such krutis would have been appropriate. Other than that, it was the concert that mattered most.

Sorry. Beg to differ. The primary reason for this occasion was as a memorial for the Guru. The hall was filled with many luminaries of Carnatic music. They were not there to listen to the rare kritis - but to reminesce and pay their homage for the teacher who spent his life propogating them.

Again, Madhavan's response was representative of what most rasikAs would have felt when they were subjected to an ineffective and prolonged prelude when the concert which was intended to highlight their master's special interest and the publication of his book, got delayed. It is natural for the audience to get irked by it all.

Sorry. Beg to differ. This response is typical only of a cranky spoilt rasika who feels that the organizers owe her a free concert. I do however give you that there are quite a number of them.

No wonder, when the proceedings lacked crispness and brevity, the listeners have nothing much to do than to observe the flaws in a prolonged state of waiting. No, I am not saying that dedicated students should also be good speakers. Why give speeches (but for a brief intro) when the concert could have started earlier?

The organizers are not professional MCs. This is the second year they are conducting the event and I hope they are learning (at least the part about not singling out all the luminaries in the hall -- only because I am sure they missed at least a couple). I don't think anyone wants a Mandira Bedi hosting the event,

It is the unwanted 'tradition' of speech-giving which pervades our concerts.
Instead, how nice it would have been, if the students themselves had joined together to SING a few songs which their guru had taught them! That for an hour, and with a short intro, NSG's concert ushered in!

Spoken like a true "forget-about-evertthing-else-and-just-sing-for-me" rasika

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 12 Jul 2008, 01:03

[quote="madhavan"]Of late this has been in vogue that many anchors (women in particular) wrongly pronounce the following words!

Instead of Sundaresan mama it was wrongly pronounced as SundareSHUN mama, similarly instead of avar solluvar â€“ avar SHOLLUVAR
Avar sonnar â€“ avar SHONNAR
Aasirvadham AASHIRVADHAM

I request people to â€œshunâ€

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Jul 2008, 02:13

Suresh,
I like your energetic post!
You have an edge, I concede. You were there! And I know you from the forum and am aware of your sensible posts. And before you call me a hedonistic rasika again

, I have to admit that until I saw the Hindu review on the event (not that you can implicitly trust every word of it every time) and read your post , I was under the impression that in was one of those never-ending talk shows. From what I gathered earlier, it was a shambles of a show. kAthAl kETpadum poYYE--tIra vichArittu aRivathE mei (hearsay is of no avail in coming to conclusions until you have understood it by enquiry).
Sorry, I should have waited before reacting. A matter of conditioned reflex, I am afraid. When you get to hear live concerts only during a few months in a year, the intolerance for speeches rears its head.
I appreciate the shraddhA shown by the students, the speakers and most among the audience...
Yes, I was perhaps unthinking (not greedy !) in expecting them to sing, while they wanted to speak about their guru.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 12 Jul 2008, 02:41

Sureshvv, you are on a roll!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 12 Jul 2008, 10:53

mahavishnu wrote:Sureshvv, you are on a roll!

Thank you all for indulging me!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 12 Jul 2008, 10:58

arasi wrote:Suresh,
I like your energetic post!

Sorry, I should have waited before reacting. A matter of conditioned reflex, I am afraid.

Thank you, Arasi. The only thing you could be apologizing for is accepting what is reported here at face value. And I am not sure that is such a bad thing!

hindolam · Post by **hindolam** » 12 Jul 2008, 10:59

Sureshvv--Brilliant post. Though I did not attend the programme myself, some who did informed me of the devotion of the students to their revered teacher. It came out very well in their role as comperes of the programme and I believe was well appreciated by the vidwans and vidushis and rasikas present there.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 12 Jul 2008, 11:07

arasi wrote:Suresh,

You have an edge, I concede. You were there!

<snip>

kAthAl kETpadum poYYE--tIra vichArittu aRivathE mei

I am not sure I have that much of an edge. Since isn't

kaNNal kAnpadum poY

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Jul 2008, 20:19

It was an intentional omission

and I am happy. Hindolam's post makes you a valid 'kaNNAl kaNDavar!