Music Competitions

kapi · Post by **kapi** » 11 Oct 2008, 00:09

http://tyagaraja-chicago.org/WordPress/?p=485

CHICAGO TYAGARAJA UTSAVAM recently conducted MUSIC COMPETITIONS.
92 people submitted their demo entries from all over USA. Seetha Narayanan of India screened the entries according to the Organizers.
34 were screened and competed in the live competitions

The judges were H.N. Bhaskar and Delhi Sairam.

H.N. Bhaskar was sleepy and did not say a single word throughout the 3.5 hour competition. We are not sure if he even listened, but we are confident that he had no interest!

Delhi Sairam basically judged "biased" and gave awards to friends and confidants. This organization normally posts you tube video's of 1st prize winners. But apparently this time have not done it as the public will see what happened.

A few examples as the Problems are numerous:
The organizer would announce this way:
No 1 from IL, No 5 from CA etc every time she called each participant, prompting the judge that this is a out of state canidate. Needs extra points for coming to Chicago. This was not stated when the competition was announced.

Mridangam - there were just 2 contestants. The local boy did fine and made no mistakes. No X whatever that was came from Out of State. He started out with mel kalam. Judge said do 1st speed, he said he did not know, then the judge said use my talam and not the talameter, the boy was not comfortable and kept looking at both the Judge's talam and talameter and guess what, HE GOT FIRST PRIZE AS HE WAS OUT OF STATE, while the local one WHO IS NOT A PART OF THE CHICAGO TYAGARAJA UTSAVAM'S CORE did not get ANY prize.

Vocal level 3 - the first prize winner byhearted her swaram and reharsed in the library in front of other contestant friends. Then, on stage, she messed up. She stopped and again took just the Korvai from correct place and finished it. She left crying as she knew she messed up. But, Guess what, HER FAMILY IS A CORE MEMBER of the organization. So, she got first!

Vocal Level 2 - third prize was given away to a kid even after she yelled at the top of her voice and went off sruthi. This kid's family again is a Core Volenteer of the organization!

These are just a few to name.

OST's student sang extremely well but did not even get third!

Instrumental: The judge being a mridangist, did not know Nattai ragam's vivadhi arohana. So, he gave the first prize again to an out of state person in Instrumental Category when this person made blunders in her song. Additionally, this organization clubs veenai, flute, violin, keyboard etc as instruments and judges them in one category.

It is ridiculous that they did not mention anywhere that OUT OF STATE PEOPLE and CHICAGO TYAGARAJA UTSAVAM VOLENTEERS AND CORE MEMBER'S CHILDREN WOULD GET PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT. But that is what happened.

Neither am I a teacher in the area nor my grandchildren participate in this event. But at every party that we had gone for weekend after weekend, the parents, the children and teachers talk about this and feel bad to have subjected their children to this. Yet, no one wants to write to the organizer out of fear of alleniation. It is very sad to see this state for our music. The parents are battling between inculcating Indian Cultural Values on one side and facing the consequences of their desire by subjecting their children to this kind of partiality and Bias. One would assume that the Indian Based Artists when they come as Judges, would be fair. But, the Judge feels, I ate in XYZ's house, XYZ dropped me, etc and the Children suffer.

Either Conduct the Competitions Fairly and Unbiased, or dont Conduct them.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 11 Oct 2008, 00:36

kApI, another option (probably an easier one) is to not particpate in these competitions. If the only interest the parents have is their stated one (inculcating Indian Cultural values), then certainly, 'winning' in a competition is not really part of that value system! So, why torture the children by putting them through this and then bemoan the outcome?
On another, and more practical note of relevance to these children - Does 'winning' in these competitions have any value other than the pride the parents/teachers feel? Do these prizes help in college admissions (Dr. Krishnamurthy, please chime in)? I do understand that if a child is planning to pursue a career in CM, these awards may help in encouraging them (but then, I have not heard of Rohan, or Rajna, or Aishwarya - who seem to be firmly set on the path to pursue a career in music - winning prizes here! Nor have I heard that Ms. Mythili Prakash, or Ms. Kritika Rajagopalan won awards at the Dance competition of the Utsavam. PLEASE correct me if I am wrong!) So, why bother? Learn/teach art for art's sake. Learn/teach it to understand and inculcate Indian Cultural values. Not for winning awards.....

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 11 Oct 2008, 00:51

Yeah, I never really understodd the whole "importance" in winning these competitions. If you win, great, you have something to encorage you, but the questions lies "would you rather sing/play poorly and win first prize or sing/play to your satisfaction and not get a prize at all"?. As for biasism (is that even a word?) and what not, the question I always ask is... Who cares? One should play to get better and should play in competition to show how much they have improved, not to get some trophey or meda.Though with $250 on the line, I'm sure if one loses, dissapointment is a sure thing

.

manikand28 · Post by **manikand28** » 11 Oct 2008, 00:52

kapi, you do a terrific of bringing this on this forum. I think many contests are for namesake only. Some are really unbiased. Better to be forewarned.

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 11 Oct 2008, 03:38

We have heard from Kapi...and now a word from the organisers?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Oct 2008, 04:36

mridangamkid,
You ARE cool! While the grown ups (in age) do not seem to behave in the way they are supposed to, I hope any disappointed contestant who is upset, gets to read your post. Nothing like 'peer ' wisdom!
I wish parents encourage their children to 'participate' in cultural events for fun, rather than compete solely for prizes...

sindhupriya · Post by **sindhupriya** » 11 Oct 2008, 13:02

If the parents sincerely feel that their child didn't have a fair judgement in the competition , then they should avoid such competitions in future and go ahead with the Music Training . Please dont teach the children that they are good only if they win competitions . You dont need a CTU Competiton or other state level Music competitions to decide if your child is good in Music or not. If he/she is really excellent then he/she will definitely outshine, if you focus on Music only and not controversies that are being discussed during get togethers. Its more "peer pressure" amongst parents/teachers than amongst children. Its the parents who discuss such problems in front of the child and make the children also think on those lines. Let them grow up normally and enjoy the competition.

Conducting competitions just for Chicago Residents would not help the Organisation or the local participants to better themselves. There is more exposure to good music when there are participants from other States.

So the teachers and the Parents should decide what is good for the child and decide accordingly. Competitions are necessary and would help the Music Students to challenge themselves.
Sindhu

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 11 Oct 2008, 18:17

rshankar wrote:another option (probably an easier one) is to not particpate in these competitions.

I agree with this. I think a student's Guru can provide challenge after challenge to a student. If a student learns and masters rAju veDalE, start Cesinadella. If that is learnt, start shri subrahmaNyO. Just one example...

It is inexcusable for a student's Guru to send her to a competition having learnt swaras by rote [they are called 'kalpana swaras and not 'kalpita swaras' for a reason]. It may be far more useful for a student to add songs, ragas, and more musical challenges to one's repertoire. If a student is sent for a competition having memorized their entire program, and wins a prize, that prize is worth nothing more than a brief boost to the student's / parent's / Guru's self-esteem. Sorry if I sound harsh, but it seems like these competitions are nothing but a colossal waste of time for all concerned...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Oct 2008, 21:20

Ravi, Sindhupriya, Prashant,
You all say it well. If the child wants to, and feels that it is fun and is challenging (oneself, not others), and the parents go along with it, a contest is a healthy thing.
Somehow, if competition is viewed upon as a do or die situation by either the parents or the children, it does not help in the growth of the child and in his participation in a contest. Which reminds me--do parents take their children to competitions 'before' they start entering them for a few years, so that they are observers and are free to make up their minds about competing and get a sense of its positive and negative aspects?
While we like our children to explore and learn music and everything else they possibly can-- to put competing first may rob them of their love for music...

suma · Post by **suma** » 11 Oct 2008, 21:54

When I was a kid and went to competitions, we were given numbers and the Judges would just have numbers and be in a separate room. They could just hear the audio and could not see you nor know your name, your teacher's name, your parents name. All they could hear was, person's number and song. Based on the audio, they judged and gave awards. Even the parents and teachers would not know who the judges are until the results are declared. So there is no question/concept of being unfair. I think the organizations should think about this so that they wont have a negative feedback. Additionally, may be if they post the judges remarks, may be the participants can see what went wrong.

upili · Post by **upili** » 11 Oct 2008, 22:14

We have friends who were there. They felt the accusations are baseless. CTU conducts in a fair way and offer hand written judges comments for the competitiors.Non prize winners and prize winners can get them by mail

MKM · Post by **MKM** » 12 Oct 2008, 04:06

rshankar wrote:
another option (probably an easier one) is to not particpate in these competitions

I don't think this is a good idea. easier options are seldom the best. In life, everyone has to face losses and triumphs and at times unfair losses as well. Removing children from situations that could possibly cause 'hurt feelings' is only setting them up for bigger disappointments later.As adults they may not be prepared to face realities.

I once had a student in my third grade class ( I worked as a school teacher when my kids were really young just to be able to get vacations with them). Anyway, she was a very bright girl. Due to some misinformation it was told that she was the ONLY student in the entire school to be picked for a special program by the State of california. This went on for about a week. Later it turned out to be untrue and as her class teacher I had the responsibility to break the news to her. I took her aside and let her know gently that there was a mistake. Her face fell for a minute. Then her response was "Oh Well, I will have to tell my mom!" That's it! She was her normal self within a few minutes! THAT is a well adjusted child. I said to her this didn't mean she wasn't bright or anything and she smiled and said I know Mrs.V....I later spoke with her mother and she said'O these things happen.. she'll get over it. It is not a big deal...
I feel there was a lesson to be learned there. The parent didn't make a big fuss when it looked like the kid was picked for a special thing, so when it didn't come through it didn't matter much either.
I would rather take my children to competetions but be clear in my mind and make it clear to the children as well that it truly doesn't matter whether they win or not, as long as they try their best. This way they get the exposure they need and yet don't feel miserable if they don't win.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 12 Oct 2008, 12:44

I too feel some amount of competition is healthy for a child. I went through a fair bit as a kid (not in music though thank heavens!) as I think I am the better off for it. It helps you deal with disappointments...Having said that, it is important not make a big deal of outcomes - it is parental pressure that usually gets to the child not the results themselves.

I agree with the posters above - it is a great idea to introduce your child to music - but not all of them are going to be SAngeetha Kalanidhis. If they are able to develop an interest in the art and in turn pass on their knowldge and culture to subsequent generations, that is victory enough...

karnaranjani · Post by **karnaranjani** » 12 Oct 2008, 23:23

Being a kid who has been competing in these kinds of competitions for the past 4-5 years or so, I wanted to make a small comment on this thread.

From my experiences in these competitions, I have learned only one thing. Winning a prize in a competition is not the reason most of us compete. Personally, I've felt more satisfied after doing a good job and not receiving a prize than after receiving a prize when I didnâ€™t necessarily doing my best. The prizes are only secondary and of little importance to me. As a participant in such events, I compete for the sole reason that I get to meet my friends from all corners of the country. These competitions are a good excuse to spend time with those who I would otherwise never have gotten a chance to meet or hang out with

The networking that has resulted from attending these competitions has truly humbled me, both because I'm deeply motivated by those who are more advanced than I am and am also able to help the younger kids understand why this art form is such a great one (and can be lots of fun too). Moreover, Iâ€™m not unique in this opinion. If you ask many of the kids why they compete, they will likely give you a response somewhat similar to this one.

We children have been born and brought up in a foreign country, but are still holding on so firmly to our roots, which I find quite laudable (I say this with the utmost humility). It can sometimes be a challenge to put so much time and effort into CM when cultural and social pressures encourage us to do otherwise. These competitions are of value to us because they help us expand both ourselves and our social networks in a culturally befitting way. Knowing more children our age who are interested in the same things will motivate us to work together at advancing ourselves in this art form instead of promoting the unhealthy competitive â€œIâ€™m better than youâ€

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Oct 2008, 23:34

karnaranjani,
True to your name, you say something which is very pleasing to our ears. You are typical of the majority of children who enter competitions. As we know from a Tolstoy's story, it is the grown ups who have to grow up in such situations. Children have their own wisdom.
Youngsters like you inspire us no end. The future of CM and of the human race is in good hands. May your kind increase!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 Oct 2008, 00:07

I agree with what Arasi says. karnaranjani, your attitude is super and you are a true role model for other kids.

It also shows that the posts we see here after a competition ( in and out of India ) are more about the parents than the kids. I have observed this even in non-competitive cultural events. I have heard one parent griping about another parent pushing her kid to the fore front ( which was in fact the case ) but then looking at those kids co-operating with each other, tutoring each other for the overall success of the event is quite heartwarming.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 13 Oct 2008, 00:10

meidhangamkid and karanaranjani make very valid points - some of these children appear to be way more evolved than many of the adults - kudos to the children and their parents

.

My comment was directed against the adults - and the point was, have the children compete for healthy reasons with reality checks at each point without any bemoaning after the fact. The alternative of not participating was made only for those who seem to have so many negative feelings at the end of it all.

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 13 Oct 2008, 04:19

Sam Swaminathan wrote:We have heard from Kapi...and now a word from the organisers?

This will be a very fair deal.

Thanjavooran