On composer Agasthiyar..........

[chitrathiagarajan]

I have a doubt about the composer of , Srichakraraja .. , a ragamalika.
The composer's name is said to be ,Agasthiyar.
Is this a composition by our Rishi Agasthiyar?
If you look at the language used,it is the colloquial one of current era.
Is this composer a contemporary person?
The web site www.karnatik.com talks about the Rishi Agasthiyar.
Can I get this clarified?
CT

[srikant1987]

Yes. It's surely not rShi Agastyar, whom some people attribute to the creation of Tamil language itself.

[srkris]

It is certainly not the rishi!

[cmlover]

It is a pseudonym of a contemporary composer. There are other songs too which never became popular.

[sramaswamy]

Good question! A case where the song is more popular than the composer. By googling ( aka searching), I found only one reference

http://www.usenet.com/newsgroups/rec.mu ... 01184.html

That just says the composer is from 19th century. No records available about the composer.

[chitrathiagarajan]

There is a kriti in ragam tilang by this composer,'prabho ganapathe'.
Usually it is sung in bajans.
In the site www.karnatik.com the ragamalika Srichakra is listed as the composition of kumba muni Agastiyar.
This information has to be corrected.This website is accessed by many carnatic music learners to get the text of required kritis.
The information about the composition should not mislead the browsers.
CT

[Sundar Krishnan]

30/10/11

I was trying to locate the Composer (Author) and Ragam & Taalam of "Prabho GaNapate", as for eg, popularly sung by OS Arun.

Then, I found a mention in this Thread in Post #6 :
">> There is a kriti in ragam Tilang by this composer : 'prabho ganapathe'."

1) Is this composer = "... ? Agastiyar" ??
Also, the correct first name of this composer, since a question mark hangs on this part, as seen in the discussions in this thread.

2) Also, pl confirm if the Ragam is Tilang ? and Taalam = ?? in this link :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMMNBF2v2-c :
O S Arun, Bhajan, Prabho Ganapathe (4:27 m)

TIA

****************

PS - 3) Incidentally, on Tilang, I had gathered earlier the foll info in my notes :
http://www.karnatik.com/ragast.shtml#tilang :
Tilang : 28 harikAmbhOji, 30 nAganandini janya – janya from 2 Ragams ??
S G3 M1 P N3 S | S N2 P M1 G3 S
N2 in 28- HK and N3 in 30 - nAganandini

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=14154
appani vara prasAdi annamayya appa samumAkE kalaDallamayya
rAgA: tilang. Adi tALA. Composer: Annamacharya.
which is not listed in the above karnatik.com link under Tilang.

****************

...

[vasanthakokilam]

At the recent Sikkil Gurucharan concert I attended, he announced that the composer of Brabho GaNapathE as Agasthiyar. I do not know any furhter info.

That O.S. Arun song is Tilang, Tala Adi ( Atheetha Eduppu )

[Sundar Krishnan]

30/10/11

Thanks for confirming Tilang.

>> Tala Adi ( Atheetha Eduppu )
Does Atheetha Eduppu imply deshAdi ?
- wrt the details of deshAdi and MadhyAdi, you had given earlier in :
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6287 - Post #3

TIA

...

[vasanthakokilam]

>Does Atheetha Eduppu imply deshAdi ?

No. Atheetha Eduppu means the song starts before the samam.

[Sundar Krishnan]

>> No. Atheetha Eduppu means the song starts before the samam.

Could you pl let me know the no of beats before samam.

TIA

...

[vasanthakokilam]

It is half a beat before the samam, with 'bho' on the 1st beat and 'the' of ganapathe on the 5th beat.

BTW, do not take my reading of eduppu or tala as anything official. I have not seen anything written down and I have not
seen how artists keep thala to the song. ( I think Sikkil G was not keeping thala in the official 4+2+2 Adi manner but I do not recall now how he kept it ).

In fact, for this type of bhajan songs, a simple 2 beat cycle is good enough if one wants to go in the minimalist direction, though each song line is structured for 8 beats.

Summarizing: if one wants to keep the Adi cycle for this song and if major stresses in the song need to be aligned with the 1st and 5th beats of the thala cycle ( why not! ), then 1/2 beat Atheetha eduppu fits.

[Sundar Krishnan]

Thanks.

...

[Sundar Krishnan]

1/11/11

I would like to have 3 - 4 examples of Kritis, where Ateeta Eduppu is applicable.

A friend of mine said that in the song Shobhillu, Ateeta Eduppu is used at "Bhajimpave", but only at that point. Could you pl confirm.

But, I would like to know of Kritis where we have the Taalam itself defined with Ateeta Eduppu for the song - like we have Kritis, with pre-defined DeshAdi and MadhyAdi Taalams.

TIA

PS : The above friend also said that the Taalam in songs where the song starts after the samam (like DeshAdi and MadhyAdi), is classified as "AnAhatA" (as compared to Ateeta, where the song starts before the samam). Could you pl confirm.

...

[vasanthakokilam]

I do not have 3 - 4 examples but the one that comes to mind is, Sivakama Sundari-Mukhari. It is commonly notated as Ateeta eduppu.

Yes, If the song starts after the samam, it is called anAhata eduppu. I will have to listen to Shobhillu to see if i can confirm what your friend says.

[mohan]

Lalgudi Jayaraman's popular tillana in Mohanakalyani also has an ateeta eduppu.

Regarding SObhillu, the beginning of the pallavi line is SObhillu saptaswara and that commences on the samam so it can't be classified as an ateeta eduppu. 'bhajimpave manasa' is the ending part of the pallavi line.

[Sundar Krishnan]

2/11/11

Thanks to you both for the 2 egs and confirmations / comments.

I noticed that both yr egs of Ateeta Eduppus are for the Base Ragam being Adi Taalam.

I agree (with Mohan) that just for the sake of one phrase “bhajimpave manasa” in ShObhillu Saptaswara (JaganMohini (from 15-MMG), Rpkm, T), we can’t classify it as Ateeta Eduppu Taalam for the whole song, and that was the reason for my query.
Pl see Q3 below in this regard.

*********

Ateeta Eduppu is 0.5 beats BEFORE Samam – which seems to be complimentary to :
<-> vs AnAhitA Eduppu = MadhyAdi, which is 0.5 beats AFTER Samam.
Fine.

Q1 : Similarly, I would like to know the complimentary of AnAhitA Eduppu = deshAdi, (which is 1.5 beats AFTER Samam),
in Ateeta Eduppu ie, an Ateeta Eduppu of 1.5 Beats BEFORE Samam.
Is there a “name” given to it ? ie, eqvt of deshAdi, but on the other side.

*********

For Adi Taalam, 2 special names have been provided for the 2 AnAhitA Eduppus :
DeshAdi and MadhyAdi.
Fine.

Q2 : Are there any egs of similar AnAhitA Eduppus of 0.5 Beats and 1.5 Beats, applied for other Taalams like say, Roopkam, or Khanda Chapu, or Jhampa etc ? If so, some egs of Kritis.
[In “bhajimpave manasa”, where the Song’s Taalam is defined as Rpkm, we had this feature just for one phrase, and so, cannot be considered.]

Q3 : If yes to Q2 above : Are there any egs of Ateeta Eduppus of 0.5 Beats and 1.5 Beats, applied for other Taalams like say, Roopkam, or Khanda Chapu, or Jhampa etc ? If so, some egs of Kritis.

TIA

...

[chitrathiagarajan]

There is one more kriti by the same composer in ragam sama.
"sama ramya sankarapritiye"
CT

[Lakshman]

chitrathiagarajan:
Do you happen to have the lyrics for this song?

[chitrathiagarajan]

Lakshman sir check your email.
I have sent the lyric of the kriti
CT

[Lakshman]

Thanks Chitra.