Voice and old age

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 22 Oct 2008, 01:27

I am trying to collect some empirical evidence of correlation of voice technique and longevity, the idea being to be able to pinpoint what kinds of techniques can damage the voice and which ones allow the singer to last a very long time using examples of singers of yesteryear as well as contemporary times. Note that my criterion for a singer who has good technique in this sense is one whose voice maintained its luster and pliability into old age (let us arbitrarily assign 60 as the threshold) without too much degradation from youth.

These are my personal opinions and members should feel free to agree or disagree without rancor. I invite you to add to either list and perhaps a short explanation for your choice.

Examples of vidwans whose voice has sustained into old age:

1. Semmangudi : of course he has to be the icon of longevity. Even at 80 he could sing marvelously -- even if he was physically frail his voice had not lost its shine.

2. MDR : people may or may not like his style of singing or his "katta kural" but no one can deny that his voice held right up to his death (even though it dropped gradually from an already low pitch) and did not become hoarse.

3. KVN: I attended a concert of his a year before his death and he sang wonderfully. Even though his mind not as sharp (he was forgetting words and he sang the same raga twice or thrice without realizing it in the same concert, his voice was still good. He had trouble negotiating the range below the madhya Sa but I think he had that even when he was younger. But his assays in the upper ranges were exhilarating as ever even if there was a touch of hoarse in them.

4. MSS: Her golden voice seemed resilient to anything she put in its way. She might be the exception to the rule that techniques influence longevity simply because she was gifted in the voice category. But a useful example anyway.

Examples of vidwans whose voice has not sustained:

1. TN Seshagopalan : if Semmangudi is the icon of vocal longevity, TNS has to be the poster child for non-longevity. Even his die-hard fans cringe these days and he is not yet into old age by our definition.

2. Ramanad Krishnan: he was barely audible in his old age whereas the younger version had a quite strident voice. I don't know if he had a physical ailment that caused it but I happen to believe that it was a result of his vocal technique.

3. GNB: there is a marked difference in the quality of voice in the recordings that spanned a couple of decades. The older GNB's voice seemed hoarse or without its well-rounded sound compared to the spectacular notes of the young GNB. Again I wonder if this was because he put his vocal chords through so much during the course of his long and hectic career.

Please feel free to add other examples, especially of vidwans of older times on whom only people who have heard in person can comment due to lack of good recordings. What about other women artists? I feel that some of the damaging things that our male artists do with their voices is much less frequent in our female artists as a matter of style.

-Then Paanan

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Oct 2008, 01:43

TVG seems to be among a minority of carnatic singers who have made a study and practice of voice production and technology. Perhaps he is not yet quite old enough for your examples but the fact that he seems a lot younger than he is may also be part of the equation.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Oct 2008, 01:45

A new topic, thenpaanan--and very interesting observations.
You have raised this question when several of our 60+ vocalists are performing actively, more so now than in the past.
Another consideration is a matter of health. Though their voices are not failing them, and they seem energized by their living with music for many years, several among them are diabetic. If the voice flags, that could be one reason.
R.K.Srikantan stands out when it comes to keeping his voice 'young' and strong, even though he is well over eighty!
Waiting for others to chime in!

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 22 Oct 2008, 02:02

We are all forgetting vidvan R.K.Srikanthan who is going as strong as ever.

sramaswamy · Post by **sramaswamy** » 22 Oct 2008, 02:02

In fact, the past two years has seen revival of the super-senior artistes - R.K.Srikantan and Parassala Ponnammal. I also like to add Arasi's relative Jayalakshmi Santhanam to the list. She came back after 8 hours of drive in a car here in US and still could sing for more than two hours in full-throated voice, at her age which I think 80+ if I am not mistaken.

Now is that something due to their technique or food habits or some physical exercise. Hmm.... That will be interesting to know and very good scientific study. Good topic then paanan!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Oct 2008, 03:02

Ah, that energetic Jayalakshmi! She would be pleased with your compliment, but sh sh! Please change her age to a young seventy five!
She had her birthday recently

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 22 Oct 2008, 06:15

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 22 Oct 2008, 16:35

sbala wrote:I think Aruna's voice is very strong and she could potentially be drawing crowds well into her 60s.

i thought she is already there... into her 60s...

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 22 Oct 2008, 20:15

coolkarni wrote:In one of my recent 'sessions" with Lalgudi Jayaraman , he whispered to me :

" Do you know what is the tragedy of being an Indian Classical Musician "

After seeing me nod sideways , he elaborated.
" By the time we get to around 60 , our Mind has just matured enough to take it in all but we see our body faltering.AND NOT KEEPING PACE WITH THE IDEAS COMING OUT OF OUR BRAINS."

God should give us artists , a 200 year Life Span.It is much more easier than carrying it from One Janma to another"

And this from an Instrumentalist who has achieved everything one could have hoped for .And more than that too.!!!!

BTW Semmangudi was not singing marvellously at 80 and TNS is not a poster boy for non longevity,either.
I once happened to see a set of personal notes written by TNS for each of his accompanists on stage(for a harikatha program).It was pure wonderful calligraphy and must have taken him hours to prepare for each of the co-singers.
I will not elaborate more since this is not a thread for comparison of Apples and Oranges.

Indeed, this is probably true of many arts and sciences in general. All through post-teenage life there is increasing mental maturity (more experiential memory, more sophisticated concepts etc) and decreasing physical ability (decreasing eyesight, hearing, energy levels, attention span etc) but each field seems to make different demands so the optimum is placed at a different age (speaking on average, not individually). Artistic endeavors (music, dance, painting) seem to require longer maturity than some physical sciences. In this light, I would argue that it is perhaps even the responsibility of musicians to keep in good health in their youth and essentially plan on best exploiting their maturity in their later years. Of course, exigencies of life (livelihood, opportunity costs, etc) mean this is easier said than done but I do wonder if there are some things one could/should do. Young singers of Western opera are known to avoid some parts diligently simply because the arias involved can damage your vocal chords (too high passages or requiring very long breath etc) and thus ruin your long-term prospects. Do our young musicians think in those terms?

Coolji, I am curious about your remark about Semmangudi and TNS. Can you clarify whether you are saying that SSI was singing less marvelously at 80 than he did as a younger man and if so, do you think that the deterioration was more than what would reasonably be physical ravages of age? As for TNS, to be sure I cannot say that he is a poster-child for non-longevity for anything but voice. In all other aspects, TNS has raised the standard tremendously in Carnatic Music, be it in scholarship or creativity or energy. But let us focus on voice longevity for now. I would be quite happy to change my mind on on this aspect of TNS as well. I hasten to add that in my consideration of TNS's voice technique I cannot tell whether the damage was more due to singing too much or due to bad technique. Evidence from other musicians suggests that it is the latter. Perhaps it is the case that superlative singing of the TNS variety definitely requires the sacrifice of vocal quality but if true that would be good to know as well.

With warm regards,
Then Paanan

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 23 Oct 2008, 10:36

Bharath - I wasn't aware she's already into her 60s.

Vijay - hectic work and dad's health kept me away. Hopefully, the next few months will be better.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 24 Oct 2008, 05:37

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 24 Oct 2008, 05:39

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Oct 2008, 06:57

Cool,
How true! MLV appealed to me more and more as she aged. Yes, 'filled her music with pathos'...

kmrasika · Post by **kmrasika** » 24 Oct 2008, 08:45

Finding one's voice: http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 150100.htm

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 24 Oct 2008, 09:08

G.S Mani is 75? He didn't look that old.. I've got to add 15 years to everyone I've met..Thank god, I replaced by 5 year old specs on my wife's insistence.

rbsiyer · Post by **rbsiyer** » 24 Oct 2008, 09:58

Sandyavandana Srinivasarao was a great example of voice culture. His album for SAngita audio, the only one i have ever seen on the market and that too out of print, is testament to this. if i am not mistaken he must have been in very advanced years, but his intonation and control would rival any hindustani singer.

While TVG's voice may be robust his use of falsetto for unnecessary high phrases was distressing in some radio broadcasts i listened. Balamurlikrishna did this far more seamlessly, Yesudoss to a lesser extent.