Pushy NRI parents

[srkris]

Mri_Fan had posted his views on pushy NRI parents in another thread. It is felt that a separate & general thread would be better. Finger-pointing or personal attacks are not allowed.

Please keep it general. No artists should be named.

[Nick H]

Didn't we discuss this in a serious and practical way in a thread about how to encourage children to enjoy carnatic music?

, Uday!

And... I've seen a few of such kids in London, NRI or SL Tamil: there's a fine line between terrific parental support and terrorfic parental doting.

As a child, my mother doted on me: I was covered in dote marks

--- Spike Milligan

(who was, I think, born in India)

[LovingCM]

Excellent, More than this, I am positive that your son learnt from several visiting artists like AAA, BBB, CCC and so on and so forth, for a total of two to four classes in his life time, and sure that you post all of their names in your website as your son's GURU? I am sure that you made sure that everyone's name is added already on the website....

Can you please add definition for GURU in your website? May be we should open a separate thread for this and analyze?

Uday, Can we REQUEST YOU to do us a favor, begging you please?

Can you please post the recording of your son's performance on the YouTube so that we can all "ENJOY"?

Please help yourself and do start a new thread for each and every recording you post.

[Nick H]

I'm going to remain unimpressed --- until I hear Neel's recording of carnatic music played on that school-band trombone. that might be something!



...Hmmm. Actually, maybe that is an idea! Gamaka is possible on the trombone, isn't it? It would have to be subtly renamed, of course: something like trombonet, or tomberone



Perhaps my flight of fancy could become a reality: I used to love brass-band music. Somebody make my day with a carnatic piece on trombone or cornet? Please?

[gogopugo]

There are a couple of alarming trends that potentially could do serious damage to the quality of CM, that I would like to discuss here.

1. There is a trend to fill up the resume of a "budding/developing" artist by the number of concerts he/she has performed and with whom?, rather than how well one performed. I personally attended/organized (regretfully) one such concert where a traveling artiste suffered from the lack of experience of the violinist and the percussion player. But none of the performers seemed to care. The audience and organizers left with an empty and cheated feeling.

2. There is an increasing number of artistes that travel from India without a full troupe or ensemble. The top notch ones are mostly NOT guilty of this. There is nothing wrong in substituting a budding talent when a seasoned one is available due to an emergency.

But the second tier ones (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) have found a nice medium to come to the US and perform with these unfinished products. Its a win-win situation for the pushy parents of these kids and the visiting artistes. The artistes in most cases do not pay much, if at all any, to these kids. The concert quality suffers without a doubt. But no one seems to care. Mostly these tours/mini tours are arranged by the parents of these kids.

Hopefully the concert organizers will get smart enough to realize this and put a stop to this. I am a part of the organizer community and my eyes have opened, after my experience this spring. We are going to refuse concerts from traveling artistes unless they disclose their entire group. NO MORE MAKE SHIFT CONCERTS.

Yu-Go-Gopu

[mri_fan]

I'm suprised that no one has yet mentioned the great flashy website to honor the humble prodigy:

www.neelkantsiyer.com

[gn.sn42]

I used to love brass-band music. Somebody make my day with a carnatic piece on trombone or cornet? Please?

Here you go:

Nathamuni Brothers
http://www.museumfire.com/nathamuni.htm

http://sangeethamshare.org/gvr/78_RPM_r ... i-band.mp3
http://sangeethamshare.org/gvr/78_RPM_r ... i-band.mp3


Here are some fusion projects that may interest you:

( Update: a simple search on YouTube for "trombone carnatic" brought up this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8K8Ax6l-nU

and Eugène Bozza appears to have composed some Études sur des modes karnatiques for trombone - I haven't been able to find a recording yet )


Rajesh Mehta
http://www.orka-m.com/?cat=9
http://www.rajesh-mehta.com


Karnatic Lab:
http://www.karnaticlab.com


Prasanna has written music for horns:

http://www.guitarprasanna.com/Works/

Quoting from Prasanna's web site:
Wandering Spirit was written for 3 horns(trumpet, tenor sax, trombone), guitar, keyboards, piano, bass and drums. This piece has an ABC form similar to the Pallavi, Anupallavi, Charanam form in carnatic music. A is an alapana of Purvikalyani raga in E flat with horns playing incomplete 3 part voicings. B is a funk section in A major in 9/8(5/8+4/8 config.) with the melody weaving in and out of raga Charukesi and harmony being extremely terse and dissonant. The guitar solo is in Charukesi over a modal vamp. C is a Bossanova in A minor in 9/8 and has horns blowing over some unusual and intricate harmonic changes.


Adrian Sherriff
http://www.aao.com.au/people/current_mu ... _sherriff/

may be worth researching - he's a trombone player who has learnt Carnatic music.

[arasi]

Neel,
You make me reel with laughter. Wiz kid of them all, you Neel, out of the blue, are making many a pu(ni)shing parent do a reel

[cmlover]

Pushy Parents Pushing Pupils are Produced by Pushed Parents by Peers.
Maybe Peeing too much
But that is a fact. In most cases as parents observe their peers get their kids recognized, they too wish to have their kids recognized. Do as the Jones do
In some cases Parents try to realize their childhood dreams through their offsprings. In psychological terms this is 'Projection'. Often the children are the victims without realizing the mental trauma inflicted!
This is not only in respect of CM. A number of parents push their kids to become 'doctors' (with a $ gleam in their eyes) whereas the child may have a natural talent for Music. But then when the 'doctor' grows up he tries to realize his/her childhood dream through his offspring. And so on and so on...

Uday
Do (k)neel to your neel now as when he grows up he will most likely give you uday

[sankirnam]

Uday, that is great....

[MaheshS]

In London, learning CM or Bharathanatyam and having a £15K pound [the bigger the hall the better] arengretram is almost an obsession. Parents almost camp in Bharathiya Vidya Bhavan during the weekends. The arangetram itself is a joke. The teachers, literally write sangathis and alapanai's for the students to learn and perform. And according to the preview, everyone of them is a "prodigy".

I used to know a family while living in London. They had two lovely kids learning CM. They came to ours for a dinner one night. When the Mami [Oops, I am not that old Mahesh, call me Meena!!], said to the two girls, look Mahesh listens to music all the time. So as usual, I say, so what are you learning at the moment? Which stage are you in? Expecting, something on the lines of jandai varisai or geetham.

The replies were, I am in level x and the other in level x+1. With the mami proudly saying, the others of her age are still strugling with level x-1, these too are too good. To this day, I am not fully clued on what each level means. But after 30 mins of prodding and delicate questioning led to the fact that the eldest had just started Mohana varnam

To be fair, it's not the fault of the teachers there. People like Manorama Prasad [Vocalist], Balu Raguram [Violin] and Bala Anna [Mridangam] of BVB are very talented. But if these parents, for the sake of social status, keep shoving money and putting pressure, the teachers do their best to prep up the young'uns for their arengretram whether they are ready or not. It's got to be done just before they get into uni, to get it in their CV's. Soon as the arengetram is over, that's the job done. They know classical music, afterall they wouldn't have been able to perfom solo in front of an audience if they didn't. They don't have a clue and neither are they interested.

Naively, once I tried to help a guyw ith his violin arengretram with a few of my recordings so that he can get used to the raga etc etc. This young chap was to play a RTP in Shanmugapriya [IIRC], so I made a tape of MLV, MSS, Ramani, Lalgudi and MSG playing Shanmugapriya. All I got was a blank stare and a comment which went along the lines of, but can you write down the notes for me? He didn't want to listen at all, he just wanted this to get out of the way.

[suma]

Na

[sramaswamy]

Suma

I agree with you fully. Not only that what I would like to say to everyone else in the thread is to look at it another way.

The parents have sacrificed their personal lives and spent their time taking interest in their children's activities. The mothers and fathers as well could have spent their time sitting in front of TV and watching Sun TV or play cards or go to parties. But instead, they have put in money, made efforts to nurture the talent. No child can come up without parents pushing their kids. Yes, in some cases it might get a little bit of excess, but it cannot happen without the child's participation and interest. Contrast this with other kids who show no interest in practicing and you have to push the kids to go to class.

Come on guys, such kids and parents deserve appreciation and praise for their efforts, and of course constructive criticism rather than cynical barbs.

[appu]

www.neelkantsiyer.com

This site does not come up.

[kadambam]

I think it is not entirely the parents fault. The visiting artists from India are to be blamed too. They come here on a 30 day tour and want to give as many concerts & teach as many students, irrespective of whether the students are ready to take advance lessons from these artists.
If questioned, then the immediate defense is "promotion".

Now, going back to Suma's story about the flautist. why did he accept a student when he knows that he will be available only for 5 days.
The poor kid is kind of lost; All these years he/she was learning from the current teacher and suddenly this pro from india comes and says it is wrong! Online classes are a great idea, but lot of maturity is expected from the student and lots of patience from the teacher.

The fundamental motive should be to learn the art for art sake and not for performance sake. But in this age of promotion and commotion, it needs a lot of discipline to practice this motive. The discipline should come from teachers, musicians, parents and finally the students. If it is sincerely practiced then the music will truimph and will last forever. This preemptive branding of so-called prodigies & record breaking feats should be controlled. We know of many prodigies who went unnoticed.

[sadananthan]

Like some one added there are "pushy parents" every where. In the US as far as CM is concerned, the existence between pushy parents and visiting artists is one of symbiosis. In India the territory belongs to the main artist and sabha secretaries and to gurus to some extend. In exercising this power no words are minced. I heard an audio of Semmangudi with TNK and Trichy Shankaran and when TS started the thani and Shnakaran was checking the sruti a few times, S Gudi screamed" Sheriya irukuda, adida". What a preposterous attitude, wheather Semmangudi or any Gudi. Shankaran had his own standing and he was not "adikaling" the mridangam. What I mean is this epitomozises the situation and no parent can be pushy with such individuals.
In the US, visiting artists, need money, no matter how it comes. I don't blame them. They are willing to cut corners by settling for any mridangist or violinist and it is the ideal playing ground for pushy parents. Their kids are ready to perform for nothing or even ready to pay a fee. The artists don't care for the quality and in general the turn out is meager any way. The organizers only care for the applause they get from the visiting artists as great hosts and organizers.
The way of life will continue until the artists insist on quality accompanists by sacrificing some dollars or the audience refuse to attend the concerts or the organizers also stand firm. In the present scenario pushy parents may succeed for a while unless the kids have the spark and can take off at some stage. Or they will fade away as dramatically as they appear. Thankfully, it will occasionally produce a Rohan Krishnamurthy or a Vinod Seetharaman.

[mohan]

Surely there is a fine line between encouraging the child and over-marketing him. Giving a child opportunity to train under the best teachers or to accompany leading artistes is absolutely fine. If the kid has talent, they will be recognised by music lovers over time.

I don't see the need for a 10 year old to have a web site on themselves. If they are technologically creative they can make a web page on any other topic in the world. Similarly what is the need to 'market' kids on youtube?

[suma]

Na

[mohan]

Sure share your videos of your kids on youtube with your friends but should the links be publicised on public forums and websites?

[srkris]

afterall grandparents would like to see but cant be at the concert venue, so there is nothing wrong in using an available resource like youtube ))

Just curious, do grandchildren need to be introduced to their eager grandparents on each youtube video as "World Record Holders"?

On the serious side, somewhere, I feel all this hyperbole is unwarranted. Where the music is allowed to speak, nothing else should speak.

Using titles before one's name is dangerous, since implies that the name by itself does not carry much weight as a performer and wont generate interest without the title.

[uday_shankar]

Notes to my real NRI child (rather than the imaginary superkid Neel Iyer ):

1. My child, life's goal is simple - strive to discover who you are, be good and always do the right thing.
2. Strive for excellence if you so desire, but not to compete with another person.
3. Don't do anything because I tell you to but only if you wish to.
4. Cultivate good habits and avoid bad ones.
5. It's not important that all your "talents" are showcased and marketed... on youtube or elsewhere. There are many happy, unknown, talented people in the world. In fact, the greatest joy in life is doing something because you get a kick out of it.
6. If your talents start overflowing and flooding, the world will automatically notice and may even seek them out.
7. Focus on following your heart and finding meaning in life, not checking off boxes of achievements. These "achievements" may not add any meaning in life. If they come on their own accord by all means accept them but don't seek them out.

[Nick H]

gn.sn42 Thanks for the Brass links! Been having a lot of network trouble this week, but catching up with that slowly

Mohan Anybody can have a website (even I have one!) but having a site among the many millions out there does not mean that anybody will see it or take any notice of it. It may even be well-known among a group of family and friends, and if that group wants to believe that a small investment in a domain name and some design work means fame, then let them enjoy that delusion! ---or could it be that we will one day see the bursting of the young musicians dot com bubble! Have to say that, for me, even the sites of established and admired musicians which loudly announce how wonderful they are and how many awards they have, countries visited, vidwans accompanied, etc, put me off, but then that may just be culture difference for a retiring Brit.

[Nick H]

MaheshS;

One small correction, Manorama Prasad is not one of the Bhavan teachers. Although I haven't met with her for several years (we live 5,000 miles apart), I'd say that she is not enthusiastic about the London-format arangetram.

I once heard that there are more arangetrams in London than in any city outside India. I don't think that, on the whole, the London arangetram can be compared to the Chennai arangetram. For starters, it is almost never the entry into professional music.

It is a major international family social occasion. Although there are a few teachers who are making considerable amounts of money in the 'industry', it is this aspect that costs the most, with considerable outlay on major halls, decoration, catering, etc. In fact I'd say that £15,000 would be only mid-budget for this kind of a do; I'm sure that many of the dance arangetrams cost in excess of £20,000.

It is also an acknowledgement of a certain level of achievement and hard work. I've spent quite a few weekend evenings being pleasantly entertained by, and enjoying the social life of, London arangetrams. There have been a very few where I have felt that the child should not have even been on a stage, and that the accompaniment by the professional musicians, such as those you mention, in a formal concert setting, was really a bit of a bad joke. There have been a similarly small number where some genuine improvisation took place. Mostly they are, as you say, prepared and rehearsed set presentations.

As far as I'm aware, there have been zero professional carnatic musicians produced out of London and performing regularly in Chennai. My own guruji, who produced several pro musicians in Chennai, has one London student who plays professionally and internationally. This is no criticism of either the London scene, or my teacher: it is not the intention of the youngsters to become musicians, it is their intention to become doctors and bankers and software engineers. I think they deserve some praise for getting as far in music as they do.

If they did intend to become pro, then their first problem would be the very number of professional violinists and mridangam players already in the London scene; there is no shortage of accompanists for either local or visiting artists. Maybe it happens more often in USA, but in London there is a very tiny number of families with the riches and inclination to sponsor visiting artists (apart from that arangetram) for the sake of their offspring.

There is a handful of young London musicians who do not put away their instruments when their careers begin, and who can be found playing for temple and social occasions. Some of them are very modest too. Some of them even had simple and low-cost arangetrams in small school halls, where it was the music that came first.

Yes, there is a lot to criticise within the London scene, and much of it relevant to this topic too, but I cannot help but try to point to some of its positive aspects. Perhaps I am biased; it was that very scene, of course, that nurtured my love of carnatic music. Another way in which I benefited from it is that it provides opportunities for performers at all levels and standards. It helps maintain a sense of culture for the second generation of a refugee community; I hope it survives for the next generations too

[sunaada]

I agree with you, Nick. Many of these kids deserve a lot more genuine appreciation than what they actually get for working so hard to meet their exceedingly demanding parents and community in both music and academics.

Paavam! It’s actually sad to see most of what they do is governed by a gripping fear. I feel that they do enjoy music- but are not encouraged to find the real passion for it at an age when it matters. Right from sarali varisai, they are lured with just one goal- the glorious arangetram.

In my own experience and with most of my friends who love carnatic music, the age of 14 or 15 is when one realises just how incredible our system of music is. That’s when they begin to understand how much more there is to learn and explore. But parents who want their children to be the best at everything- have them treat their arangetram as a climax to their musical training and have them perform it at precisely that age so that they can focus 100% on higher education post that.

Which is why in most cases, the arangetram becomes the end rather than the beginning. Until then, they are too young to value what their doing and after that, music takes a back seat since they feel they have already achieved what they set out to. I can imagine that the parents sacrifice a lot for all this, but in my opinion a focus on kindling the passion for music in their children versus just the arangetram would help a great deal more.

I also have a few other rants on the scale at which arangetrams are performed here.

1. The elaborate brochures distributed on high quality paper with colour photos and the entire life-history of the whole family of the student apart from the programme. Is this necessary or relevant??
2. Invitations to senior musicians who actually fly in just to listen to this ultimate mediocrity and are forced to sing praises- to be recorded for posterity.
3. The ratio of music to most-boring speeches on how amazing the student and the Gurus are is 1:3 (which neutralises any opportunity for genuine praise or criticism that may actually benefit)

[MaheshS]

Nick - Oops, Manorama Prasad is not in BVB, she moved down further south a few years ago [unless she has moved back to London again], my mistake!

Regarding achivements, that's all there is to these. They just take it in stride like doing a Maths exam. I HAVE to get 90% [or whatever] and then I will NEVER use Statistics ever ever again and I hate Maths ... While I agree with you when they should be complimented on their discipline, they rarely contribute to CM as such. 99%
of them do it for *every* other reason than being interested in CM or liking it. Considering this is a dedicated CM forum I decided to vent on the UK scene, the one I am familiar with.

Sunadaa - The invitations make me barf

Suma - Either you say what you have to say or just be quiet. No point in posting and then retarcting them saying something utterly daft like "did not want the facts out for too long ". God.

Mods, can we have an My Prodigy Kid Who Knew 3 Billion Ragas When He/She Was In The Womb, And Sung An RTP In Simhanandanam Tala When Born Instead Of Crying as a separate forum? The rest of us can carry on as usual. Then the parents can post to their heartful. Thanks [/Tounge In Cheek]

[MaheshS]

And before you say anything, my yet to be conceived son / daughter, will know 3.1 billion ragas, and do a ragamalika RTP in Simhanandanam tala whilst playing violin with two hands, and mridangam with the *other* two. So there.

[cmlover]

Uday

pAshcAtya ramaNopadEshaM
To be given to your real NRI child (rather than the imaginary superkid Neel Iyer ):

1. My child, life's goal is simple - strive to beat the system, be good and always try to be one-up on our neighbours.
2. Strive for excellence not for its own sake, but make sure you always win.
3. Don't do anything you like, but do what I tell you to, even if you don't wish to.
4. Cultivate good as well as a Killer bad habit and use them to your advantage.
5. It's very important that all your "talents" are showcased and marketed... on youtube or elsewhere. There are many unhappy, unknown, talented people in the world. Let them feel jealous. In fact, the greatest joy in life is doing something because you get a kick out of it.
6. If your talents start overflowing and flooding, the world will not automatically notice unless I do the marketing.
7. Focus on following my words and finding meaning in life, not checking off boxes of personal achievements. These "achievements" may not add any meaning in life but mine will add $$$s. Since they will not come on their own accord by all means We have to go after them.

(extracted from the American (or ABCD version of Ribhu GitA)

[Nick H]

MaheshS, I think you are too hard on a lot of those London kids; many of them, at the least, enjoy their music.

--- The arangetram invitations? well... you get what you pay for, I suppose, though I prefer the more modest ones. The invites are nothing to what the knob-twiddling effects-mad video presenters do to the DVDs. But then, isn't that true of Indian weddings, so maybe its just part of the culture

--- The speech/music ratio. Something I hoped to get away from when I came to Chennai, but no, arangetrams here seem to feature a lot of speech-making these days too. I remember one of those London parents telling me that he was fighting the family to keep all the people who wanted to speak off the stage; he was a music lover.

I missed suma's facts too; but hey, who can be bothered to trawl through the cached copies of this page on the search engines that do that stuff, to find them out. Not me!

[suma]

Na

[Nick H]

Well, I'm not saying that, if we were to meet sometime over a chai, I'd be squeamish about a good gossip; I probably wouldn't.

Equally, there is no way that I would be happy about bashing personalities, parent, teacher or child, by name here on the forum.

On the whole, I think it is best to keep it to what we feel comfortable saying in public.

Mind you, I don't know from which side of the coin you speak, but I thought I had been trying to portray a more positive view, at least, of that coin

[arasi]

Good for you Neel, I mean Nick

[suma]

Na

[coolkarni]

Ah ! How times change.
When I grew up , a favourite cartoon of my Dad was that of a Father reading a book on bringing up Children,who is seen enquiring :
Honey ! This book which says give him a free hand ....does not specify which part of the brats body we are supposed to use this free hand on

The issue of Pushy parents is not just with NRIs alone.I see some of my friends do it here,too.
A very sophisticated form of child abuse,indeed.

[cmlover]

Ha Coolkarni!
I thought no one will use that CA word here
My generation is quite familiar with the adage:
spare the rod and spoil the child.
But no one thought of psychological torment in those days, though Freud's views were quite perverse!

[VK RAMAN]

Conditioned parents and children do not understand the word "CA".

[Nick H]

I've posted on 'the other thread' --- it is largely the motivation that counts.

There are many parents that parent for self- advertisement and glorification.

[arunk]

In those (g)olden days giants like ARI, MVI etc. went gurukulavasam as young boys. They had to do menial chores in their guru's house? Probably had very strict rules. Remember they were young boys (say 15 or lower). So how sophisticated is that CA ?

PS: I am not saying all of this is ok. CA is despicable, and yes parents can get overboard. And ends do not justify the means. I am merely wondering how trigger-happy we are when it comes to judging other parents.

Arun

[appu]

I sincerely believe to attain perfection there is only one road. Practice, and more practice. If the parents wake up at 4:00 AM and work with their child that does not make them pushy, dedicated yes.


From the above posts, we have already pulled the trigger on dedication, and given it different labels.

[vasanthakokilam]

>From the above posts, we have already pulled the trigger on dedication, and given it different labels.

Good observation. I am getting the same feeling. Obviously, I do not know the situation behind every kid who does well in indian arts, but the few I know do this on their own initiative ( including one who learns carnatic violin and western violin emulating our Neel kid ) . Definitely, there are some parents that parent for self- advertisement and glorification but that is an awful thing to put such a label on a parent who take great pride on their kids' achievement. That is a very natural thing and there is no need to smear such a negativity based on a few extreme cases.

Let us not throw the baby with the bathwater. Let us not encourage dumbing down of the kids.

[cmlover]

Growth and development of a child is highly complex determined by both genetic make-up and the growing environment. The latter can be modified though at times it may result in abnormal behaviour patterns such as anger, aggresion, recalcitrance, repression,depression and as host of psychopathology. Especially a child growing up in the Western culture and environment is more likely to adsorb value systems from his peers rather than from his home environment. If the home enviroment is culturally different there will be 'conflict' which can result in an irreparable damage to the psyche of the child. For example older adults are generally insomniacs who (especially from India) will wake up by 4am and if they force their sleep pattern on the child he would suffer from normal sleep deprivation with diasterous consequences in later life. Trying to soak-up the child in CM most of the living hours (barring school time) hoping he/she would become a CM wizard will deprive the child of normal socializations (such as sports, games, TV/Movies etc., which will be the normal conversational pieces among his/her peers) will generate isolationism preventing normal mental development. Most of the parents expect their children to succeed in the NA milieu and not indeed to go back to the homeland and practice CM as a career. Later life such 'programmed' children will have difficulty adapting to the Western milieu and many do revolt against their parents. Such parents should indeed spend their own 'evening' in life listening and practising CM which will give them immense personal satisfaction. There is no age-bar for learning CM!

CM indeed is not part of the Survival Package for a child growing up in the West

Of course there are exceptional children. Do consult a psychologist/psychiatrist before putting the child through the CM Mill

[Nick H]

CM is perhaps more of a survival package for a refugee (referring to the Sri Lankan diaspora) culture growing up in the West. I'd be interested in your reflection on that, CML.

Whilst I'd say that, after five days of school, two days of another school is something I would have hated as a child (I wasn't very keen on the five days!), those who study music in schools such as BVB in London do not necessarily lack social life: the interaction in the school provides a lot of social life as well as classes.

[Always_Evolving]

I feel there are two aspects to the pushiness coin. The first, more discussed on this thread is of parents pushing their child -- to practice more, take classes online or in distant cities, fit in Carnatic music into their otherwise westernized lifestyle etc. And the other is pushiness in marketing the childs' talents, getting performance opportunities and of course the bragging and boasting that goes with it.

First category -- By and large I don't find that to be at unhealthy levels. I have seen quite a few kids (NRI and RI) who are talented to amazingly-talented who are "pushed" to some extent or the other. By and large they are themselves motivated and enjoy pursuing the art seriously. But they ARE kids and sometimes a game of baseball or hanging out with friends might seem like more fun than yet another practice session. And I have seen parents step in to coax them to keep up with the practice, cut short "frivolous" play etc. That doesn't seem too harsh as long as the child is not resentful about it. It's quite admirable that parents recognize their child's talents, drive them long distances, help them stay on course, spend money if needed, find them the best teachers... I would do it, as long as I am not imposing it on my child.

Digression -- partly in response to CMLover's post:
In fact many NRI kids can pursue traditional art-forms from their own culture better because (not inspite of) it being "foreign" to the peer culture. It is "cool and alternative". Whereas for the RI child pursuing CM -- especially some years ago -- could earn him the label of being uncool and "chamattu". The uncool-ness of CM has changed a lot in recent years, thanks to the superstar status of some young musicians who are ALSO savvy and modern in their outlook.

Back to pushing and pressuring:

However -- on occasion I've noticed 8 or 9-year old kids who seem unnecessarily nervous when requested casually to render a song for visiting friends... Such children seem to feel performance pressure and the need to excel, out-do themselves, showcase complicated swara patterns, render perfect alapanas even in such casual settings! And the parents seem to leave no stone, oops -- competition -- unturned! The child is flown to competitions far and wide several times a year. Practice and perfection not for their own sakes but for that all-important "first place" as judged by the top performing musicians from India. And I have seen the crestfallen look of the child who does not win, or merely gets a consolation prize!

I ask what is healthy about competitions? Isn't pursuing the art for its own sake rewarding enough? Why not cultivate the passion to measure up to ones' own high standards and push higher? It's always nice to get a pat on the back from an elite panel of judges. But why not just have "Individual performances" say with some pre-screening, and the judges give out a qualitative assessment of the student's strengths and areas for improvement? Instead of the "first", "Second", "third", 'consolation', "better luck next time" !! There is less adrenalin I know in receiving an "assessment" with no ranking and grading. But wouldn't that kind of feedback be more worth the trip?

Lastly coming to marketing and bragging -- this is where I've seen NRI parents take the cake! And I have posted enough on this forum in response to such nauseating boasting. It's not very healthy for the student. Especially if his/her potential audience is suppressing sneers and smiles when reading all the hyerbole!

[cmlover]

Nick

I am not quite exposed to the Sri Lankan culture in the West which is indeed a recent phenomenon. Unlike the SI wave of migration which was motivated by economics and subtle political discrimination; the SL migration is essentially of refugees; a forced migration. They tend to be clannish and more bent on preserving their collective identity. Quite possibly they would return to their homeland if their dreams are realized. On the otherhand the SI migrants are (most of them) interested in settling in the West and are not reluctant to integrate themselves with the Westerners imbibing commensurate values. CM also exists as the vestigial insignia of a minority of Tambrams (who migrated from major centres like Chennai, Bangalore, Hyderabad..) which they are vigorously trying to preserve by fertilizing with imported talents from SI and only the future can tell how successful the attempts will be! It is too early to predict.

As far as I know
CM does not run in Families though the love for CM among intellectuals may be universal!

[arasi]

If music is bliss,
And some children are happy pursuing it,
It IS bliss--bless those kids--
If parental love went into it, bless them too,
As for the pushers among parents,
I have no sympathy for them.

It is really simple. As with everything else in bringing up children, parents have to guide them and teach them to adhere to simple rules in managing their lives effectively--doing the home work, keeping to a schedule and so on.
Pushiness of the kind which is aggressive where winning contests is the only goal, woe unto the child.
Yes, music is bliss. To hear it, to sing it, play it and take part in contests is all fun. One of the youngsters had written that it is great to make friends among the competitors. Then, music is bliss, and bless those parents who 'encourage' their children.

[MKM]

A child singing in Golu was reluctant to sing Kalpana Swarams. Mothers reaction " If you really love me, you will sing Kalpana swarams'!!!

The child ended up making an attempt....

This is a true story. Happened in USA.

[Nick H]

That's sad.

It's equally sad that the child feared having a go at what must surely be one of the fun bits of carnatic music.

If I ever did learn, I suspect that memorising songs would be more of a challenge than improvisation.

[rbsiyer]

In the US, visiting artists, need money, no matter how it comes. I don't blame them. They are willing to cut corners by settling for any mridangist or violinist and it is the ideal playing ground for pushy parents. Their kids are ready to perform for nothing or even ready to pay a fee. The artists don't care for the quality and in general the turn out is meager any way. The organizers only care for the applause they get from the visiting artists as great hosts and organizers.
The way of life will continue until the artists insist on quality accompanists by sacrificing some dollars ...

its unfair to blame musicians or nris alone. while hardly they are paid Juillard-level fees by nri parents, its still much higher than the pittances that is doled out in madras. i dont think many decent musicians get even 200 rupees a class!
whoto blame?
music academy going by false reputation of premier carnatic institution paid rs. 1000 (per month not day) even few years back for its college teachers! even maid servants get paid better! rajam iyer longtime principal deserved kala-needy award for this reason alone poor gentleman. i dont know about status quo, hope its better.

blame all south indians who dont know value of our cultural heritage and often attend only free concerts.

blame the lack of professional mindset in most carnatic musicians, lack of guilds etc. only silly orghanisations with grandiose titles like global so-and-so and evry semi-famous performer having their own individual trust etc. instead of working together to better the profession.

blame nonsensical reviews in hindu covering every kids meccademy concert during season. why should novice performers be reviewed? do they devote so much space to school sports tournaments? why hold these afternoon concerts anyway attended only by family and friends. now with youtube, there should be a complete ban on these mediocre concerts. maybe it is a source of revenue for some people?

blame sponsors, organisers of free concerts and all cheapskates who attend them. this is cheapening carnatic music.

nris are probably doing a lot to sustain our music, with people everwhere losing shirts wonder if even that plate will be pushed away?

[carnaticpriya]

May be we should start a new thread " criticizing neighbors". my daughter loves to sing , but dreads to sing for those criticizing neighbors who make comments like,"you should quit carnatic and learn hindustani", "sing loud", or " this song does not suit your voice". She sings beautifully and is happy singing to her teacher, family and the general public but not to these jealous critic neighbors.She feels the true spirit of navaratri is gone, when people use navaratri to showcase their talent and criticize others kids

A child singing in Golu was reluctant to sing Kalpana Swarams. Mothers reaction " If you really love me, you will sing Kalpana swarams'!!!

The child ended up making an attempt....

This is a true story. Happened in USA.

[VK RAMAN]

Is it a gender related most often heard criticism of kids from home maker or bread winner?

[carnaticpriya]

breadwinning homemakers!!!