Bharat Sangeet Utsav 2008

Review the latest concerts you have listened to.
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nivedita
Posts: 302
Joined: 14 May 2006, 23:07

Post by nivedita »

Dear Mr. Sadananthan,

I'm writing this post on behalf of my guru Vidwan K.N.Shashikiran, who is deeply offended by what you have written.

First, Cleveland Sundaram was NOT a Guest a Honour at the award ceremony. The Guests of Honour were the TamilNadu Public Works Minister Shri Durai Murugan and the American Consul General Mr. Andrew Simkin. Shri Durai Murugan, unfortunately, was unable to make it to the event on time because he was in New Delhi. Sundaram uncle, who happened to be at the event, kindly obliged to come up to the stage, primarily to felicitate maestro Lalgudi Jayaraman.

Also, Shashikiran has been performing in Cleveland since 1997, when he had not yet started Carnatica - and so, there were no functions to invite Sundaram uncle to! Now that does seem to indicate that there are more reasons for performing in Cleveland than inviting Sundaram uncle to functions, doesn't it?

As for Srimushnam Raja Rao mama, giving him the Personality of the Year Award doesn't seem like much of a joke to us.

He has been playing for Shashikiran since 1985 - and he's played for more than 2 decades without us having to give him any awards, surprise!

Guruvayur Durai sir did not participate because he is on a concert tour. He will be playing for Shashikiran this December season though.

Please think twice before attempting to tarnish a musician's image in a public forum.

We will, of course, be back in December with our annual festival Samarpanam and our passion for music will keep us going.
Last edited by nivedita on 20 Nov 2008, 01:27, edited 1 time in total.

sramaswamy
Posts: 366
Joined: 24 May 2006, 22:29

Post by sramaswamy »

Sadanathan

All I can say is that I am shocked at your outrageous posts - more by this post and maybe a little less by your other post. Please do not make the honorable carnatic music look like used car sales in the US or a house broker in India. Many of the carnatic artistes could very well have made more money in other industries if they so desired. It is their passion and interest in music that has made them to be full time in carnatic music. None of them live in a palace or drive a mercedes. And remember that at the end of the day, they have to eat and live in a house with this as their profession.

kedharam
Posts: 419
Joined: 28 Sep 2008, 23:07

Post by kedharam »

Mr. Sadananthan,

It is despicable that we have such audacity to trivialize our own musicans and their music! It takes a lifetime of work and sacrifices of Mr. Sundaram to sustain this Sampradaya (no pun intended) of our music. And we rasikas bow to those "Mahanubhavulu"
Last edited by kedharam on 22 Nov 2008, 05:59, edited 1 time in total.

sadananthan
Posts: 23
Joined: 21 Apr 2008, 09:17

Post by sadananthan »

"He has been playing for Shashikiran since 1985 - and he's played for more than 2 decades without us having to give him any awards, surprise!"

So that is why! I take back my observation and also point out that many people have played for more than 2 decades and also for Shasikiran. I don't mean offense to any one, but many of these activities, by Carnatica as well as others, smack of ulterior motives. The NRIs are no exception. Any function involving an NRI in Chennai invariably features Sundaram as the chief guest. That creates suspicion. The best thing is for artists to perform and leave award creation and selection to others.

sureshvv
Posts: 5542
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Post by sureshvv »


cienu
Posts: 2392
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 11:40

Post by cienu »

Great Link,sureshvv! A review of all the posts of the Rasika in question, confirms that he is a "habitual offender" :)

rbsiyer
Posts: 56
Joined: 02 Feb 2007, 19:21

Post by rbsiyer »

sadananthan wrote:I don't mean offense to any one, but many of these activities, by Carnatica as well as others, smack of ulterior motives. The NRIs are no exception. Any function involving an NRI in Chennai invariably features Sundaram as the chief guest. That creates suspicion. The best thing is for artists to perform and leave award creation and selection to others.
these conspiracy theories are childish. carnatica is a private concern to the extent i can gather. there is nothing wrong in any of their motive whether interior or ulterior. nothing wrong in making money from "upcoming" nri musicians. hamsadwani pioneered this and evryone is doing it. why should sabhas foot the bill for non-commercial or poorly attended programmes.
when you look at it from angle of free enterprise, you will not make ungracious criticism.
bottomline is organisations are providing free music. like it or lump it.

as for awards it is bad taste to drag in awardees for no fault of theirs. when shady sabhas like ** foundation and other fly-by-night 5-days-a-year sabhas are selling awards, as alleged in kumudam and other media, unfair to carp on carnatica.

bilahari
Posts: 2631
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:02

Post by bilahari »

I vote we adopt sureshvv's proposition in this thread; it would save everybody a lot of irritation...

kedharam
Posts: 419
Joined: 28 Sep 2008, 23:07

Post by kedharam »

"I vote we adopt sureshvv's proposition in this thread; it would save everybody a lot of irritation..."

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10958
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

For other's benefit, sureshvv's proposition that is seconded by bilahari and kedharam is DNFTT - Do Not Feed The Troll

VK RAMAN
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:29

Post by VK RAMAN »

The resolution "Do not feed the troll " is passed on behalf of all rasikas

arasi
Posts: 16873
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

And AWAID--Appreciate Where Appreciation Is Due...

harimau
Posts: 1819
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Post by harimau »

I have said this before and I will say it again.

Too many people on rasikas.org are killjoys.

Just when you get juicy news not known to the common public but only to insiders like sadananthan are posted, others jump in and say things like "Lock this thread", "Delete unwarranted insinuations" or "Do Not Feed the Trolls".

If a respected magazine such as "Sruthi" could have carried gossip in "The Whispering Gallery" when Pattabhi raman was alive, there is no reason why rasikas.org should not carry on with that tradition!

It is an interesting thought that Cleveland Sundaram got to speak at the Bharat Sangeet Utsav awards ceremony because Carnatica founders expect a slot at the Cleveland Thyagaraja Aradhana in return.

We need to take this further and analyze the economics of the whole deal.

I wasn't present at the awards ceremony so I don't know exactly what transpired there but it is customary that the guests are presented shawls.

I happen to know a decent shawl can be purchased for about Rs. 1,200. An extravagant one might cost Rs 2,000. That works out to about $40 at today's exchange rate.

In return, Cleveland Sundaram is alleged to be giving Carnatica Brothers a slot at the Cleveland Aradhana. The cost to Mr. Sundaram would be the cost of 4 air tickets (two voices, one violin, one mridangam; of course the perennial whipping boy Karthik Venkataraman gets to play khanjira and does not even get money for gasoline [petrol] from wherever he lives), accommodations in a hotel, visa fees for the Professional Performer visa, visa issuance fee at Madras consulate, food, local transportation, etc., etc.

Air tickets alone cost about $8,000. The Professional visa needs to be processed in the US costing about $1,100 per person, adding $4,400. Visa issuance fee in Madras is $100 per person which adds another $400. Hotel room at $100/day for two days for two rooms will add another $400. We already have $13,200 before adding incidentals and any honoraria for the artists which needs to be substantial.

This is a return on investment of $40. Man, Shashikiran is one sharp operator! And, on top of that, Cleveland Sundaram is dumb as a brick to fall for this scam!

I am happy that sadananthan has brought this scam to light.

But I think more than one person can play this game.

In fact sadananthan can play this in reverse.

Sadananthan can sponsor a part of the expenses of Bharat Sangeet Utsav. I understand the total arrangements cost in excess of Rs. 20,00,000 (twenty lakhs). That is something like $40,000.

Let sadananthan plunk down $4,000. In return, he gets his name up in lights as a sponsor during the Utsav. Then on top of that, he can then pressure Shashikiran & Co to invite him to speak at various venues during their concert tour of the US. What the heck, he can ask to speak at the beginning of their concerts in the US, Canada, Europe, the Middle East, Singapore and Australia. He will also have his name hitting the local newspapers what with photos and all that. He could arrange to have the Utsav fed live on the internet and have his name appear prominently at the bottom of the screen. The possibilities here are endless.

Sadananthan would not only get the publicity and recognition that is denied him today by an uncaring public and money-grubbing musicians but would prove his superior business acumen to the world in the bargain.

Go for it, Sadananthan. I shall hold your coat and cheer you on!

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

harimau - thanks for that pithy analysis! :lol:
Last edited by rshankar on 23 Nov 2008, 09:18, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
Posts: 16873
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

How many dozens of shawls does it take to fend against the cold for one who lives away from wintry Cleveland most of the year? Let us put it another way. How does one get rid of mounds of shawls one has absolutely no use for?
Showy weddings and meaningless ceremonies have invaded our culture--so have felicitations. They have become part of the scene whether we like them or not...
Last edited by arasi on 23 Nov 2008, 09:43, edited 1 time in total.

srikant1987
Posts: 2246
Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23

Post by srikant1987 »

@ harimau

If all this is juicy news, I'd rather be a killjoy.

Btw these dollars are hard to understand. But these Visa processing fees and hotel rooms in America seem damn costly!

sureshvv
Posts: 5542
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Post by sureshvv »

harimau...

You miss the point. Trolls have no intention to DO anything! Any engagement (rolling in the mud) with them here will be seen as a small victory.

I am with srikant here. For eg. many of the numbers you have estimated can be disputed , other personalities can be drawn into the discussion (more like Junior Vikatan rather than Sruthi magazine) and then elaborated on endlessly. Any initially titillating joy leaves a foul smell behind before long.

sureshvv
Posts: 5542
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Post by sureshvv »

arasi wrote: Showy weddings and meaningless ceremonies have invaded our culture--so have felicitations....
Ouch! Couldn't hurt so much if it weren't true.

rajumds
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 11:16

Post by rajumds »

Good one harimau

You need to follow up your post with one in plain language. :( Many seem to have missed the satire

harimau
Posts: 1819
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Post by harimau »

rajumds wrote:Good one harimau

You need to follow up your post with one in plain language. :( Many seem to have missed the satire
The language and style are what I have successfully used as a management consultant over several decades.

Each one takes away whatever he/she wants from it.

And that is the way to be successful at the game of consulting! :cool:

harimau
Posts: 1819
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Post by harimau »

arasi wrote:How many dozens of shawls does it take to fend against the cold for one who lives away from wintry Cleveland most of the year?
If your point is that a certain gentleman does not recognize that he wouldn't need a shawl in warm, humid Chennai and more than one may not be needed even in snowy Cleveland, then clearly he does not understand the economic value of shawls as opposed to the cost of shawls. While the said gentleman receives $40 in cost of goods, its economic value to him is close to zero since he cannot possibly use the goods.

"Dumb as a brick" seems a mild phrase, doesn't it? :D
arasi wrote:How does one get rid of mounds of shawls one has absolutely no use for?
I don't know. I wouldn't be caught dead in a ditch (as Wodehouse is wont to say) with one of these shawls. However, they might make a nice blouse for a lady so perhaps you can stop by and pick up some material if you know the gentleman? :P

harimau
Posts: 1819
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Post by harimau »

srikant1987 wrote:@ harimau

Btw these dollars are hard to understand. But these Visa processing fees and hotel rooms in America seem damn costly!
The nice thing is that my economic analysis still holds good even if you drop some of those numbers.

Counting only airfare, and that too aat $1,500 a ticket, the payoff for $40 investment is $6,000.

Breakeven analysis suggests that airline ticket prices from India to US have to drop to $10 per ticket for the cost of the shawl to be equal to the expected return.

Is that math too hard to understand? :D:

kedharam
Posts: 419
Joined: 28 Sep 2008, 23:07

Post by kedharam »

These shawls make a great mridangam wrap - adds some color.
Last edited by kedharam on 24 Nov 2008, 03:12, edited 1 time in total.

kedharam
Posts: 419
Joined: 28 Sep 2008, 23:07

Post by kedharam »

Besides the satire in this whole analysis

In music like any other art form we may never reach the break even point - perhaps most of the value belong to the "intangible" category or if i may borrow Master card's idea - "Priceless"?

arasi
Posts: 16873
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

While expert economists, marketing wizards and artistes who play the mrudangam mill around,
kollan paTTaRaiyil IKkenna vElai? (what business has a fly in a blacksmithy?). I don't even want to be a fly on the wall :)
No thanks. Even if it gets to be fashionable to wear blouses made out of shawls, I will not be interested.

bilahari
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:02

Post by bilahari »

"Blouses made out of shawls"- "Priceless!" Well said, arasi and kedharam!

kedharam
Posts: 419
Joined: 28 Sep 2008, 23:07

Post by kedharam »

As we discuss shawls:

For those who want to adhere to meaningless rituals, how about going green: re-shawling in this economic downturn!

rajumds
Posts: 715
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 11:16

Post by rajumds »

kedharam wrote:As we discuss shawls:

For those who want to adhere to meaningless rituals, how about going green: re-shawling in this economic downturn!

We can even think of a e-shawl. Provide a link to the diginatry , which he can click to view a shawl specially designed for him. It will serve the same purpose as a regular shawl (of being absolutely useless).

rajumds
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 11:16

Post by rajumds »

double post deleted
Last edited by rajumds on 24 Nov 2008, 09:24, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
Posts: 16873
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

A better idea: in place of fancy shawls, get simple and usable ones, so that they can be passed on to the poor who need to cover themselves in cold weather.

kedharam
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Joined: 28 Sep 2008, 23:07

Post by kedharam »

arasi,

Amen

srkris
Site Admin
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Post by srkris »

This topic is closed.

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