Cleveland Aardhana: A Counterpoint

[meena]

vkv43034

Is user ID 'VKV' anyway related to u?
Reason being both of u seem to share same email add.

[coolkarni]

Competition
Brings out the best in Products AND
the worst in People

The whole art of management is to convert the "Worst in People" also to
"Best in people".
Maybe that is the basic Lesson here.

[cacm]

vkv43034

Is user ID 'VKV' anyway related to u?
Reason being both of u seem to share same email add.

Dear Meena,
vkv & vkv43034 are the same person that is:VK.Viswanathan living in Los Alamos, NM,87544. For some reason when I typed in vkv- which I had used over a year back & NOT used for over 8-9 months- in Chennai IT DID NOT WORK. As I wanted to convey CORRECT information about the Cleveland Visa situation for Artists from Chennai rightaway I had top create a new ID & I used vkv43034 which seems to work- Iam saying this because in "Who's Online?" (Top Left)- it has been saying vkv43034 now a days.
I donot know how to get rid of vkv . If you know please do so. I oinly need the one ID which appears to be working. vkv

[vgvindan]

May be Competition - business style where there can be only one winner - brings out worst in people.

But competition - education and art style - where everyone of the competitor has the opportunity to the be the winner, I do not think, brings out the worst of people.

It is our mentality that there can be only one winner - business style - that brings out worst of people. It is the fault of rasikas who start evaluating artists like 'kattarikka' (brinjal). Each and every artist is a unique piece - evaluating one artist against another is like comparing 'donkeys' and 'horses'.

Every human being is a unique piece - that is the beauty of creation.

[cacm]

Competition
Brings out the best in Products AND
the worst in People

The whole art of management is to convert the "Worst in People" also to
"Best in people".
Maybe that is the basic Lesson here.

Dear coolkarni,
You may or may not be right?
I am not interested in learning lessons on this site basic or otherwise. I am looking for concrete suggestions on how to make more persons less dissatisfied with their experiences with the Cleveland Festival.
I am not too smart or profound. Only try to solve problems if possible. vkv

[coolkarni]

VKV
When anyone makes a first post in a thread which is swinging wildly between two extreme positions , it should be assumed that it is a response to the entire logical reasoning that is going on here , right from the first Post AND NOT JUST YOUR VIEWS OR YOUR LAST POST.
So please dont smart as if it is a response to just your efforts.
And my responses are not meant to be smart or profound,either.They just try to alter the perspective when it starts take taking the shape of a Slug Fest.
Look at what is the difference between what I say in
" To convert the worst in people ' and what you say in
"looking for concrete suggestions on how to " and you will see that I am addressing the same Issue.

Money
You know Why I have started to write in Verse ? Because I was accused of self Promotion and I did not hear one voice rise in anger ...
What this place needs is a bit of sprucing up if it does not want to end up as a fish market .
This has simply become a place for Self Promotion - direct or indirect-
with Original or fake Ids.
ah ! For those days When I used to quarrel with srkris for a Vision Statement for rasikas.org.
I keep wandering here simply because I do not have the heart to take it off the list of my Favourites sites to Browse.
Perhaps the Time has now come
Good Luck to the whole lot of You and Keep having fun!!!

[meena]

Dear Meena,
vkv & vkv43034 are the same person that is:VK.Viswanathan living in Los Alamos, NM,87544. For some reason when I typed in vkv- which I had used over a year back & NOT used for over 8-9 months- in Chennai IT DID NOT WORK. As I wanted to convey CORRECT information about the Cleveland Visa situation for Artists from Chennai rightaway I had top create a new ID & I used vkv43034 which seems to work- Iam saying this because in "Who's Online?" (Top Left)- it has been saying vkv43034 now a days.
I donot know how to get rid of vkv . If you know please do so. I oinly need the one ID which appears to be working. vkv

Dear 'VKV' i see ur online too.
AHA u have special privilege u get to use multiple ID's .

[appu]

Coolkarni,

You seem to be very upset. After all an online forum. Do not take it personal. Blood Pressure on the rise.

[rajumds]

appu

Cool was probably offended by vkv's post.

I am not interested in learning lessons on this site basic or otherwise.

This comment was unwarranted since the coolkarni's post was not in reponse to any post but a general comment about what competetion can do to people.

[Nick H]

What this place needs is a bit of sprucing up if it does not want to end up as a fish market .

Its time I brought the topic of Chennai flower sellers into the conversation then. That should brighten things up a bit!

[sureshvv]

nick... you seem to have a huge crush on a certain "pookkari"... may be you can share which intersection this person may be found at!

[appu]

Now Now, Nick could be "Married with Children" like Al Bundy.

[srkris]

Coolkarni and VKV - I think this discussion has outlived its purpose. Let us call it a day to this thread, and not to the forum itself. My humble request.

From what I can see there is no human language which cant give rise to misunderstandings.

[cacm]

Dear skris,
I agree with you very much. These discussions have strayed from the ORIGINAL PURPOSE from my point of view. The Forum is VERY WORTHWHILE as far as I am concerned & I DID learn quite a few things. Thanks for your service. vkv

[coolkapali]

By the time this thread is likely to get over the next Cleaveland Aradhana will be over. And then this will start all over again. Grow up ppl.

[vigneshbal]

No one is forcing you to engage in a discussion that you seem to not be interested in. But why do you think that we don't have the right to discuss problems and potential solutions in something that is very dear to NA Indians.

You don't have to read something you aren't interested in.

I am not saying this.. This happens to be opinion of one of the esteemed member of this group.. We should not interfere in that, Mr coolkapali.. But I still agree with you in this as well...

[mri_fan]

You are confusing coolkarni, who is indeed one of the members I respect most, with coolkapali, who wants us all to grow up and stop discussing anything.

[cacm]

Dear mri_fan,
I AM SPEAKING ONLY FOR MYSELF & NO ONE ELSE. I would like to again confess & tho' not an esteemed member etc still am 74 & feel I am somewhat grown up & am trying my best to focus on specific things that can be done to improve the experiences of persons attemding the Cleveland Festival. vkv

[VK RAMAN]

Is there an expression in tamil that is equivalent to english written by mri_fan? I have not heard that; too much watching of TV may bring that American expression. How much we have to grow up and in what? We are all growth challenged in one way or other.

[Nick H]

...who wants us all to grow up and stop discussing anything.

:D:lol:

That's the funniest thing I ever saw on this forum. Thank you!

VKV... of course you are an esteemed member, but please don't shout at us :/

Mind you, your shouting is almost always more polite than an invitation to grow up.

[fuddyduddy]

wow - this is a loooong post.. and i want to give my 2 cents.

i have never been to the cleveland aradhana. every year we try to go but something comes up and i used to feel very unfortunate that i couldnt make it... its such a successful event because of its magnitude and ofcourse the whole history of how it came into existence. the reason i say that we have our own small group here in NY trying to do an aradhana and theres so much politics behind it, again due to people finger-pointing on trivial matters. Its 'trivial' to me because i feel that its the 'MUSIC' thats important to me and the honor for thyagarajar. And that sincere interest keeps me blind from all politics around a musical event or even a musician.
I see vkv43034 repeatedly requesting people to send suggestions to his email rather than post it publicly. Why cant people respect that? If the intentions are really to give suggestions, then please do so via email. When posted publicly, it leaves a bad taste on the person and also their true intentions, even though most of us are anonymous..
And think what 'MUSIC' gives to us, not what we can get out of 'MUSIC'. (borrowed from JFK and modified )

[cacm]

nick H,
this is the third time you are saying:" but please don't shout at us"
I would like to understand what you mean by this. the same thread you have posted in the LGJ interview segment also says the same thing...
are you saying it because i use upper case letters? if thats what is bothering you to the point of your writing the above quote it can be easily rectified. i will write everything in lower case letters-was trying to use the cases for emphasis-.. i hate to switch between cases & all the so called ettiquette on upper & lower case i have been told is just a nit picking way of expressing dislike of what one has to say. many persons prefer upper case as they claim its easier to read.on the other hand if what i write or my style is the reason for your remarks let me know. we can discuss what is bothering you because i thought that was the reason for these forums......
i want to let you know that my views on writing about personal health matters will not change irrespective of what you say. i am in touch & actually made several phone calls to persons close as i have known lgj since 1950 based on the rediff as well as other postings here. it confirmed what i wrote there. only after that i wrote what i did. i think freedom to say or write anythging one wishes is one thing. its altogether another thing when falsehoods & half truths are irresponsibly circulated.i believe this not a yellow journalism site dealing in unsubstantiated rumors.
lets have a serious discussion on what i have written. you can email me at [email protected] so this can be straightened out. this forum is not the right place but if you prefer it please respond in detail point by point. regs, vkv

[cacm]

wow - this is a loooong post.. and i want to give my 2 cents.

i have never been to the cleveland aradhana. every year we try to go but something comes up and i used to feel very unfortunate that i couldnt make it... its such a successful event because of its magnitude and ofcourse the whole history of how it came into existence. the reason i say that we have our own small group here in NY trying to do an aradhana and theres so much politics behind it, again due to people finger-pointing on trivial matters. Its 'trivial' to me because i feel that its the 'MUSIC' thats important to me and the honor for thyagarajar. And that sincere interest keeps me blind from all politics around a musical event or even a musician.
I see vkv43034 repeatedly requesting people to send suggestions to his email rather than post it publicly. Why cant people respect that? If the intentions are really to give suggestions, then please do so via email. When posted publicly, it leaves a bad taste on the person and also their true intentions, even though most of us are anonymous..
And think what 'MUSIC' gives to us, not what we can get out of 'MUSIC'. (borrowed from JFK and modified )

Dear fuddyduddy,
I thank you for your post which I feel is both relevent, practical & useful.

As an aside since you have written you are in NY this little bit of history may be of interest to you. I was holding the Thyagaraja Festival in my home in New City NY in the latter half of the sixties with very leading musicians like Late Kalyanakrishna Bhagavathar, Late T.Viswanathan, Late V.Thyagarajan, Late V.Nagarajan, Late T.Ranganatha, L,Shankar & Ramnad Raghavan apart from famous American professors & leading musicians like David Reck from Weslyan University---Literally the who's who of Carnatic music in USA at that time.This was because The Bharathi Society ( I was one of the founders & had been everything from the janitor to president) will not hold the function under their auspices- though a bunch of us were willing to pay the expenses-........
Please do come to the Cleveland Festival next year. It will be a very special one- have to ask the CAC whether I can give details etc before writing about it- & please lookk for me. I will be wandering around & many persons can point me out. The dates are always- the Easter Wek end starting in Friday. SAT& SUN are special & it lasts till the next Sunday(10 days). Next year I think it is april 10th- pl google!. Regs, vkv

[Nick H]

vkv, first, please do not think that I doubt your news concerning LGJ; as I say, what you have to tell us is good news. I am confused about the chronology of that article; perhaps it was not written recently, I am almost sure that it is not two years since I saw one his now rare stage appearances.

If people have the wrong end of the stick, and someone can shed light on a matter, then that can only be most welcome --- but people will always discuss with what information we have up to that point.

It is, simply, a long-standing convention that to use CAPS in internet fora is "SHOUTING", and it tends to be considered rude, as would shouting in a conversation be. No, it is nothing to do with nitpicking about what a person says, that can easily be done without recourse to how they say it!

In terms of legibility, by the way, the opposite is true: the most readable text is in upper and lower case with the cases used normally. That wisdom of typography precedes the internet by decades, maybe centuries!

And I should, I know, learn to snap less readily. I will ignore your caps in the future.

[cacm]

vkv, first, please do not think that I doubt your news concerning LGJ; as I say, what you have to tell us is good news. I am confused about the chronology of that article; perhaps it was not written recently, I am almost sure that it is not two years since I saw one his now rare stage appearances.

If people have the wrong end of the stick, and someone can shed light on a matter, then that can only be most welcome --- but people will always discuss with what information we have up to that point.

It is, simply, a long-standing convention that to use CAPS in internet fora is "SHOUTING", and it tends to be considered rude, as would shouting in a conversation be. No, it is nothing to do with nitpicking about what a person says, that can easily be done without recourse to how they say it!

In terms of legibility, by the way, the opposite is true: the most readable text is in upper and lower case with the cases used normally. That wisdom of typography precedes the internet by decades, maybe centuries!

And I should, I know, learn to snap less readily. I will ignore your caps in the future.

dear nick H(the capitals are yours!),
I do not know when it was written bec it refers to his life time acheivement award so its not that old- the music academy function was in march,'08- and it is not only wrong but it reflects poorly on the person who otherwise did a good job.
i saw him several times:i visited him sevedral times at his home dec21 '07 to march 20'08
& he came to the function i organised at raga sudha hall "Madurai Mani Iyer Remembrance DAY" at raga sudha hall on feb 26th & was present for the music academy march 18th lifetime acheivement award in march - i was present on both occasions; actually he patiently listened to infinite number of boring speeches- i had a tough time sitting thru' for four hours of it!- & he was walking unassisted
& talked at length to me at the conclusion. the point is under the naive guise or mis guided or malicious intent -you choose whatever you like-. so its absurd to write wrong stuff with others genuinely echoing his non-existent difficulties- .....
instead this forum can benefit if we get to discuss his unique contributions in creating the lalgudi sahaptham- his role in transforming the role of violin, his varenams, thillanas, as a composer of the first dance ballet, & the incredibly tough pallavis. this is what we shd be spending our time on. in addition he is the mosr gracious person alive. none other than semmangudi srinivasa iyer told me this!
reg internet i have lived in usa since 1959 & like the inherent lack of discipline reg. these matters; may be the strangling effect of english grammar & spelling -still have bad dreams about wren& martin- has something to do with it. i have made by living using computers to boot!
Thanks for reading this. vkv

[cacm]

vkv, first, please do not think that I doubt your news concerning LGJ; as I say, what you have to tell us is good news. I am confused about the chronology of that article; perhaps it was not written recently, I am almost sure that it is not two years since I saw one his now rare stage appearances.

If people have the wrong end of the stick, and someone can shed light on a matter, then that can only be most welcome --- but people will always discuss with what information we have up to that point.

It is, simply, a long-standing convention that to use CAPS in internet fora is "SHOUTING", and it tends to be considered rude, as would shouting in a conversation be. No, it is nothing to do with nitpicking about what a person says, that can easily be done without recourse to how they say it!

In terms of legibility, by the way, the opposite is true: the most readable text is in upper and lower case with the cases used normally. That wisdom of typography precedes the internet by decades, maybe centuries!

And I should, I know, learn to snap less readily. I will ignore your caps in the future .

dear nick H(the capitals are yours!),
I do not know when it was written bec it refers to his life time acheivement award so its not that old- the music academy function was in march,'08- and it is not only wrong but it reflects poorly on the person who otherwise did a good job.
i saw him several times:i visited him sevedral times at his home dec21 '07 to march 20'08
& he came to the function i organised at raga sudha hall "Madurai Mani Iyer Remembrance DAY" at raga sudha hall on feb 26th & was present for the music academy march 18th lifetime acheivement award in march - i was present on both occasions; actually he patiently listened to infinite number of boring speeches- i had a tough time sitting thru' for four hours of it!- & he was walking unassisted
& talked at length to me at the conclusion. the point is under the naive guise or mis guided or malicious intent -you choose whatever you like-. so its absurd to write wrong stuff with others genuinely echoing his non-existent difficulties- .....
instead this forum can benefit if we get to discuss his unique contributions in creating the lalgudi sahaptham- his role in transforming the role of violin, his varnams, thillanas, as a composer of the first dance ballet, & the incredibly tough pallavis. this is what we shd be spending our time on. in addition he is the most gracious person alive. none other than semmangudi srinivasa iyer told me this!
reg internet i have lived in usa since 1959 & like the inherent lack of discipline here reg. these matters; may be the strangling effect of english grammar & spelling -still have bad dreams about wren& martin- has something to do with it. i have made my living using computers to boot & even have a patent for agigabit chip!
Thanks for reading this. vkv

[Nick H]

I am just happy to hear your news re LGJ. On the internet, I remember in USENET days being set upon for not including some such formula as IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) along with a statement which, in my view, could have been nothing but a personal opinion, leaving me thinking, 'what nonsense'. But some of these conventions are useful; we can only communicate by agreeing our terms.

And the terms of this topic, are, I guess --- Cleveland.

So I can had better say, thank you too, and cease this digression.

I'm there sure there are members who, on seeing my name on a post, utter a groan, as many of my posts seem to be off-topic. A bit like a small boy, of approx 11 years old who, even if they do not directly cause trouble, always seem to be around when it happens!

[vasanthakokilam]

A bit like a small boy, of approx 11 years old who, even if they do not directly cause trouble, always seem to be around when it happens!

Quite a relatable thing for me from my childhood.

[cmlover]

Nick!
You shattered my dream of your not being a teen-ager

[Nick H]

cmlover... you did the same to me!

When I was a teenager, people used to ask me if I was born old. Ever since they have been enquiring when I would, as another member also put it, 'grow up'!

[arasi]

Nick,
You said 'when I was a teenager, people use to ask me if I was born old'.
The same here! Since I am 'younger' to you, I am half your age (of eleven), and CML would say the same about himself.

I am hoping that the 'Counterpoint' has come to an end and that we can look forward to another thread in April 2009 which would bring Cleveland into focus again, that one festival which is the expression of love for CM of countless rasikAs everywhere. It is an event which has come to signify the greatness of CM which flourishes no matter where, no matter what obstacles are are faced as it continues...

[cmlover]

tathAstu |

[ragam-talam]

This thread is turning out to be like Hanuman's tail...

[cacm]

Dear Rasikas,
I felt this thread can end on an UPBEAT note finally! I strongly recommend the highlight article by Kalpana Mohan "Karnatik Revival" on may3 in the INDIA CURRENTS magazine from the bay area. One can access it at www.indiacurrents.com. I feel most of the persons in this forum will find at least the CLEVELAND SEGMENT interesting!
The LINK to tha actual article is:
http://www.indiacurrents.com/news/view_ ... a3fd3c4a97

[Rasika911]

Concert Competition Winners should not be allowed to participate in Krithi, Alapana, Instrumental etc categories. After all the girl who won last year should know that concert competition is considered the highest level and should back of from junior slots!!
Winners from the past years must be made to move to the next level and not come back year after year for the same level and compete.

A system should be in place to track and stop the winners from registering year after year and winning in the exact same category.
These people win every year and come back in the same level every year!

Will the Cleveland committee give us the guarantee that the competitions will be fair and violators will not be allowed? Will they take the bold step in forcing the repeat winners to move on and not compete in the same level??
We will have to wait and watch to see if Mr VKV will hold up to his word in trying to bring about some changes in response to the grievances from people like us who pay $50 for a competition. All we are asking for is to be fair and spend some time to evaluate the entries versus winners from the last 3 years.

Why is it not fair if winners from previous years win again ??
Every competition has an age group and imo the best artiste in that age group deserves the prize. If you cannot participate in the competition again once u have won, there will come a situation where the second and third best will start winning awards and eventually every student in NA will have won an award. Why do u have a problem if the best performer on the day takes home the prize ?

Can we say oh tmk & sanjay u already performed at the academy last season its not fair to let u perform again we will give somebody else a chance? This will result in academy concerts with artistes of lesser ability performing in years to come.

If you are entering a competition i dont think ur aim should be to get the prize but to perform to the best of ur ablilty.
Its very unfortunate that Sahana is deemed a violator for being the best participant year in year out.