KARNATAKA SANGEETHAM FOR MASSES-MUSIC EDUCATION SERIES, OUTREACH PROGRAM INITIATIVE.

[munirao2001]

Arasi Madam,

How did you read and found the contents and conclude in my appeals-'more the pressure'; my cause better than your cause'; intensity and fanfare' ?

munirao2001

[munirao2001]

Forumites,

To me the cause, spirit, action, service, potential matter not the individual(s) and their communications. Understanding would be at its best if we take cognizance of the environment, circumstances and experiences in the issue of 'para mata khandana'.

munirao2001

[munirao2001]

Forunmites,

This brings end to this thread of appeal.

munirao2001

[Pratyaksham Bala]

When some time back I have held a workshop on ‘Swarakalpana & Ragalapana’ in the residence of a maestro in music in Chennai and when, at the first instance to find their suitability, I have given a simple rhythmical test to all his 14 disciples who are either A-grade artists or performers or both each and every candidate failed to fulfill it. This is neither to aggrandize my greatness nor to bring out the inefficiency of the maestro. As he is a professional-performer but not a professional-teacher he may not be aware of the intricacies of the methods of learning. But, very sadly, the ultimate sufferers are the ignorant aspirants.

Are you referring to the workshop on Swara Kalpana and Raga Alapana so graciously hosted by Sri Neyveli Santanagopalan in 2009 at his Ramapuram residence?

[msakella]

Even though I, as a co-artist, did not intend to reveal his identity, I do not understand why you are so graciously trying to belittle him. amsharma

[Pratyaksham Bala]

... inefficiency of the maestro ...

Who is trying to belittle / scorn ?
Some soul searching may be of help.

[msakella]

Soul searching works to the people who have a soul, my dear. amsharma

[MaheshS]

This forum is called Rasikas. Not teachers. Not students. Not performers. Rasikas. We are all rasikas,we come here to share our knowledge, what ever we have! We have our own preferences, we have our own prejudices, but all within the scope of a rasika. You sir, have been tolerated here too long. Can you name 2 sishyas of yours who have accompanied leading artists so we can hear and judge for ourselves? Playing a varnam is 20 speeds etc etc is all good for the student, but not for the rasika.

Can you tell me if MSG or Lalgudi learnt the way you are now telling other people to? Why do you assume you know more than anyone else and considering you or your sishyas have not done anything noteworthy? I am including you, as you keep mentioning that only after you retired by the grace of god,his son and the holy ghost, you found this new method blah blah blah. No need for *me* to repeat it all again

If you had written Rama Jayam for the amount of posts you've made writing the same thing again and again and again you'd have got more punniyam. You are nothing but a fanatical short sighted evangelist who refuses to see anything other than your own obsession, and you blame us with the same thing. :: sigh ::

I quote the enlightened Shankara to you - Nahi nahi rakshati dukrijnkarane. Tell all your sishyas to sit down and say Govinda.

[pmantra]

This forum is called Rasikas. Not teachers. Not students. Not performers. Rasikas. We are all rasikas,we come here to share our knowledge, what ever we have!

Can you tell me if MSG or Lalgudi learnt the way you are now telling other people to? Why do you assume you know more than anyone else and considering you or your sishyas have not done anything noteworthy?

I quote the enlightened Shankara to you - Nahi nahi rakshati dukrijnkarane. Tell all your sishyas to sit down and say Govinda.

So this forum is neither of teachers nor of students and not even of performers. RASIKAS are beyond everyone?!!. And that is why they are supporting every noble cause? They share the knowledge they have. Knowledge is the asset of ONLY rasikas!! If this forum does not help teachers,aspirants,and performers, whom do it help? May I know your technical terminology meaning of RASIKAS?
Every education is a pedagogy and search and research will definately provide a broad scope for conservation and preservation of music to the next generations.
Msg never used to take violin without METRONOME. Who knows what all the legends followed? systematisation was never unfolded. Every lock is manufactured with a KEY. But what if key is thrown into ganges sealing all the musical treasure in dark?
Regarding sishyas, 800+ videos are not enough? These kids never play/ sing/ learn without METRONOME while many other so called musicians run away from metronome. If the ABILITY is not applauded, what is the meaning of being RASIKAS? Its in 1988 my brother chi. MVN Prasad who is a disciple of sri Ams garu accompanied mastreo sri. Chitraveena ravikiran garu on voilin in sica concert at NIT warangal. And my brother's age was only 16 at that time. I have many more references. But arguing here is mere waste.
Many more sishyas are in this yagnam. We are here to conserve and preserve quality karnatic music to the generations ahead keeping up the INDIVIDUALITY in the form of manodharma amongst the aspirants in much more lesser time.
GOVINDA NAMA SMARANAM will ofcourse strengthen us. We are pleased much for your kind suggession. Thank your highness maheshji.

[Pratyaksham Bala]

This forum is called Rasikas. Not teachers. Not students. Not performers. Rasikas.

We are all rasikas, we come here to share our knowledge, what ever we have! We have our own preferences, we have our own prejudices, but all within the scope of a rasika.

You sir, have been tolerated here too long.

Why do you assume you know more than anyone else and considering you or your sishyas have not done anything noteworthy? I am including you, as you keep mentioning that only after you retired by the grace of god, his son and the holy ghost, you found this new method blah blah blah.

You are nothing but a fanatical short sighted evangelist who refuses to see anything other than your own obsession, and you blame us with the same thing. :: sigh ::

[pmantra]

I bow from the bottom of my heart to sri munirao garu who is here for the noble cause. He is a man of deeds Supporting any system ( not any person) that helps the cm aspirants to flourish with individuality. One amongst the finger countables of his kind

[Pratyaksham Bala]

This forum is being used extensively by a Professional Teacher for free advertising.
By calling all other Teachers again and again as 'Cheaters', he has succeeded in driving away from this Forum a number of Carnatic Musicians / Teachers.

[pattamaa]

it is okay to advertise, self promo etc, but it is important to refrain from blaming others.. i think, this is where most of us have issues !!

[ramanujan]

When some time back I have held a workshop on ‘Swarakalpana & Ragalapana’ in the residence of a maestro in music in Chennai and when, at the first instance to find their suitability, I have given a simple rhythmical test to all his 14 disciples who are either A-grade artists or performers or both each and every candidate failed to fulfill it. This is neither to aggrandize my greatness nor to bring out the inefficiency of the maestro. As he is a professional-performer but not a professional-teacher he may not be aware of the intricacies of the methods of learning. But, very sadly, the ultimate sufferers are the ignorant aspirants.

The comment by msakella on 6th Mar 2009. Sir – You had praised the workshop. Now after 6 years you criticise.
“It is a wonderful experience to conduct such a workshop before the teacher, being a Vidwan himself, along with his students. Most surprisingly every one among them had responded with equal inquisitiveness, enthusiasm and efficiency. All the arrangements are also made very homely and, in fact, it became difficult to move back from that place. I felt extremely happy about the outcome of it.”

In the age old traditional system of teaching the exceeding dependency upon the teacher has been helping only to elongate the ineffective process for many years learning a number of items but without any of the needed grammar by which very few of the highly intelligent aspirants only are benefited mainly depending upon their fortune and many others are compelled to end up as impotent musicians or inefficient teachers, in turn, helping to produce only impotents. Unfortunately, no music-teacher on the globe ever comes out to discuss about any of these illogicalities or irrationalities lest it leads to spill out his/her own beans but unabatedly continues his/her most harmful acts while all other music-teachers also profusely praise his/her bravery thus conniving with each other in such harmful acts to the aspirants.

Sir, let us see the effect of these harmful methods used by the modern day inefficient Gurus and the consequences they have produced
P S Narayanaswamy – Disciples – Ranjani Gayathri, Abhishek Raghuram, Bharat Sunder and many other
Chitravina Ravikiran - Disciples – Savitha Narasimhan, Akkarai Subbulakshmi, Bhargavi Balasunramaniam and many nore
Sanjay Subrahmanyan – Disciples - Sandeep Narayan, Swarna Rethas, Prasanna Venkataraman and many more
T M Krishna – Disciples - G Ravi Kiran, Vignesh Ishwar and many more
Delhi Sunderrajan – Disciple – Ramakrishna Murthy

Shri Munirao, the son and disciple of the music veteran Late Sandhyavandanam Shrinivasa Rao, witnessed the mini-music-concert of the 11year old Chi. Shreenidhi, my disciple and grand-daughter of Shri Nageshwaran, who has been trained for less than one year under this unique system, in the Rasikas meet held in 2010 in Chennai, became impressed and he is the only person who has since been honestly trying to propagate this system for the benefit of our kids unlike any other musician or music-teacher.

Sir – With due respect, quick learning alone is not important. Music is for the long term and should be sustainable.

While even small kids, trained in this unique and logical system of learning, are able to demonstrate very complex things, very sadly, each and every Tom & Dick readily comes out to find fault with the person who truly and truthfully tries to save the poor and ignorant aspirants from the harmful acts of the music-teachers but no person comes out to question any of the illogicalities or the irrationalities of any of these music-teachers who are unabatedly continuing their harmful acts all over the globe. Except doing this kind of mud-slinging against the noble and active persons who are striving hard to truly help the poor aspirants can’t these Toms and Dicks make any helpful acts to the poor aspirants?

Sir – To the credit of other gurus no music teacher has ever abused you on this forum or otherwise. We all know who is abusing other Gurus and teaching methods.

Every where the persons having conservative and egoistic temperaments only are dominating without taking any proper action mainly making the poor aspirants as the scape-goats. In the same process all our kids have already lost the great treasure of modern-violin-techniques brought out by the Great Violin Trinity, MSG, Lalgudi and Chandrashekharan. This is our great tradition.

This is because of lack of public support for instrumental music, especially solo kutcheris. It is no surprise that Ranjani Gayathri, Akkarai Sisters and Amritha Murali who started off as violinists have moved to vocal music. Veena and Nadaswaram concerts too are suffering due to lack of public support.

Since a long time I have been harping upon the harmful acts of the music-teachers and I shall be very happy if any efficient and honest music-teacher ably produces such talented kids in such a short time of learning music without singing for more than 1% in any of the music-classes. amsharma

Sir - the boundaries you have drawn around yourself are unnecessary. Children cannot be generalised. Some pick up faster than others. As for the guru singing for not more than 1%, I wonder what purpose it serves.

[pmantra]

I am appealing to the global members of rasikas.org to join me in the cause of Karnataka Sangeetham for Masses-Music Education Series, out reach program targeting school children in South India in the first phase and rest of India in the second phase.

Apex body for various individual organizations-NGO's working in music education to be created for standardization of systems and methods, practices and action plans. Artists and rasikas rendering voluntary services in successful implementation of the Apex body action plans. I desire and suggest the leadership of Sri Chitraveena Ravikiran and his team members chosen and residing in South India- Chennai, Coimbatore, Trichy/Madurai-all in Tamizh Nadu; Hyderabad,Visakapatnam, Vijayawada/Tirupathi-all in Andhra Pradesh and Telengana; Bengaluru, Mysuru and Mangalore all in Karnataka; Palghat, Trissur/Cochin and Trivandrum-all in Kerala; Pondichery.

As part of this initiative, One Day Event with programs- Lecture & Demonstrations, Panel Discussions, Experts Panel Discussions, with AIM of standardization of karnataka Sangeetham music education integrating the innovative teaching techniques and OBJECTIVE for preparing and recommending the Syllabus,systems and methods for teaching school children-direct and distance education is to be planned and conducted.

To meet the estimated expenditure for the One Day Event, please pledge your contribution with a minimum of INR 2,000/-per member. This appeal will be open from 4th of September To 30th of September, 2015. If the pledges confirm the arrangement for funds management further actions will be taken. The funds are to be transferred to the NGO volunteering and selected.

Thanking You all in anticipation

Sandhyavandanam Madhva Muni Rao (munirao2001)
E-Mail:munirao2001@hotmail.com.

Prime need!! Proper curriculum for music in schools.

[MaheshS]

Prime need indeed, but I am objecting the fact that the curriculum *needs* to be the one YOU say as opposed to proven methods. I repeat, how many people are performing in the December series this year? Name the ones who belong to your school of learning.

[arasi]

Not that we rasikAs do not respect dedicated teachers, but MaheshS has brought out the restlessness resulting from the intensity of propagating the method here at Rasikas.org.

Many years ago, I did witness Akellagaru's zeal and did hear the students trained by him. I have also heard Srinidhi, the very talented grand daughter of Nageswaran.

However, I cannot deny that over the years, his evangelical pitch has reached fire and brimstone. With deference to an elder (several of us are elders on Rasikas), we did not voice our discontent in a strong manner (Bala, you and Nick were perhaps the only ones who tried!). All that we could do was simply skip through such very long posts and grin and bear with them.

The key irritant is the putting down of other musicians--especially those who are mighty talented themselves and bring results in training numerous talented youngsters. And, they haven't lashed back either...

Missionary zeal is fine, but not at the cost of belittling others...

[vgovindan]

Arasi,
Zeal is fine but not 'missionary zeal' because the latter arises from one's conviction that others need to be reformed. Even the word 'zealot' has negative connotation - sorry for trying to amplify your English.

Somehow I am very unhappy about the whole thing - particularly after seeing the participants on either side of the divide. I have a lurking fear that CM or KM - whatever it is - seem to be getting further fragmented and consequent rivalries. I do not know as to how much such discussions have percolated down to senior practitioners of CM or KM.

Somehow, things are not going in the positive direction. Am I a pessimist? - perhaps.

[arasi]

VG,
Yes, zen is more like it, agreed
'Missionary zeal', I didn't mean it in the 'grab the masses and convert them' sense of the expression, but as someone with zeal to accomplish a mission.

Zen and this? Can't think of a more opposing word, given the circumstances This is more like the most aggressive marketing campaign for a yOgA center (with a large dose of the sanctity of CM/KM thrown in).

Yes, as a sensible rasikA said previously, we are rasikAs first and foremost, willing to share music, to learn from each other. We share our musical experience with others. We also have the chance to learn from some among us who happen to know a lot about music.

Exchanging ideas and learning from each other is the thing. What great teachers there are too, without any ceremony or acrimony, young, old, middle-aged!

I am disenchanted too, the way causes are carried too far, and as a result, they aren't at all worth our while.

How can oldsters expect any respect from the younger ones, if we ourselves get cantankerous?

Enough said, before my word count beats that of the lengthy posters.

For now, it's comforting to be part of the Literature threads, exchanging poems!

May peace prevail!

[munirao2001]

This is not yet another attempt at appeal, as the appeal is withdrawn. I am attempting to bring the clarity.

1. The event with program is planned primarily for discussions on the innovative techniques in teaching methods-Sri Chitraveena Narasimhan; Sri Akella Mallikarjuna Sharma; Institutions-Academic; Revision and Standardization of teaching methods and systems to universalize; low cost/cost effective direct and distance education enabling fast track teaching and learning with customization for various levels of requirements of aspirants and stake holders.

2. Cause being Noble, total focus must be on the goal and objective with equanimity state of mind, sincere and humble relentless pursuit and selfless efforts. Efficient planning and execution with preventive and corrective actions for distractions and loss of quality.

3. The cause demands Team effort with Leadership. Cause and Event has to achieve highest public attention to receive support to conduct and implement the plans. Resources required are very substantial-human and financial. High quality work and results attract and will receive required contributions and support. The challenge is to make it happen and to make it known.

4. All persons taking interest and deriving pleasure out of art form are rasikas not excluding its practitioners. Art and its practitioners deserve unstinting support free from pride, prejudice and selfless for all the good initiatives furthering the cause of art, its growth and development.

munirao2001

[SrinathK]

As much as I appreciate your research and initiatives and intentions, I think you all forget that it's not what you say but how you say that makes all the difference - 93% of all communication is the how, not the what. The gulf between knowing you in person vs your online image is a more like a grand canyon as rasikas who know each other in person have told me. The written word has much more seriousness than the spoken word and some here are totally not aware of how they appear to others online or how much they themselves are becoming an obstacle to their own intentions. What is the point of mass outreach when you are driving away all those who would benefit by these initiatives?

Also I should point out, with due deference to the difference between my age and all of your ages, and the fact that the internet is quite a new thing to many of you, that the years are noticeably taking a toll on your writing as one's faculties decline and it is showing. This may not be appreciated or even understood by those who do not know you in person. In fact for those of you who are complaining, this is actually the real cause of the rather caustic nature of many of these posts, not because of any evangelical above it all whatever. Some of us understand and don't mind, we see only your contribution. Others don't.

Rather than hurting your causes online, I kindly suggest you stick to face to face interactions and personal talks where people will know the person and not the handle. Please don't take this as something disrespectful, but your online efforts need someone younger and in their prime who can show the merit of your methods without any of all the other unnecessary statements that don't do anything to help us kids and fellow rasikas - it is causing a loss of respect which I can dismiss as old age, but others may not understand. These initiatives will succeed simply on their own merit, when they stick to music alone and nothing else.

However if this polemic kind of writing continues, I will have to be more concise and say, "Seriously get a young and capable PR manager to speak for you! You yourself stay off the net if age makes it too hard." For the record, please know that I have benefited very greatly by these methods and it is sad, even painful to see so many people losing the opportunity due to the decline that comes with age.

[Purist]

Well articulated Srinath. Hope it gets the desired effect.

[msakella]

Thanks a lot, dear SrinathK, for your timely advice. I shall certainly try to follow it hereafter. amsharma

[pperumal]

No offence folks.
To me this is MUSIC:
https://youtu.be/HT0J-msnGjg
No amount of systemization or shortcuts will get you there.
Talent, hard work, exposure to maestros....is the only rajamargam!!!

Regards,
PP.

[msakella]

Even in this modern age conservatives can as well go to Varanasi by foot and enjoy as they like. amsharma

[vgovindan]

sharmagaru,
IMHO, it is not a fair comment. I used to visit Tirumala every year - climbing the mountain by foot. More than one minute in the presence of the Lord with 'jaragandi, jaragandi' and the constant pushing and pulling in the sannadhi, I enjoyed the five hour journey period remembering the Lord and repeating his names. There is nothing conservatism about it.

There is a Sadasiva Brahmendra kRti - pibarE rAma rasam - Music is to be drunk - it is not fizzy drink to gulp in one go and burp.

[arasi]

VG,
gOvindA

Perumal,
That TNK's BehAg with Ramabhadran was just perfect...

[Pratyaksham Bala]

Talent, hard work, exposure to maestros....is the only rajamargam!!!

Well said !

[varsha]

The book The Dancing Wu Li Masters , Spends a few lines on the subject of hill climbing (as a mode to shift perspectives) very nicely . Two interesting bits are quoted here .
The first because it has some relevance to the topic being discussed .
The second for its sheer elegance as an analogy.
I now understand why my parents made us climb to the top of the hill where our family deity presided, instead of taking the bus. Time after Time.
Quote
In Einstein's words:
. . . creating a new theory is not like destroying an old barn and erecting a skyscraper in its place. It is rather like climbing a mountain, gaining new and wider views,discovering unexpected connections between our starting point and its rich environment. But the point from which we started out still exists and can be seen, although it appears smaller and forms a tiny part of our broad view gained by the mastery of the obstacles on our adventurous way up.
.....
Suppose that we are in a balloon looking down on a mountain that has a bright beacon on the top of it. The mountain rises gradually out of the plain, and becomes more and more steep as its elevation increases, until, close to the top, it rises almost straight up. There are many villages surrounding the mountain, and there are footpaths connecting all of the villages with each other. As the paths approach the mountain, all of them begin to curve in one way or another, to avoid going unnecessarily far up the mountain.

Suppose that it is nighttime and that, looking down, we can see neither the mountain nor the footpaths. All that we can see is the beacon and the torches of the travelers below. As we watch, we notice that the torches deflect from a straight path when they approach the vicinity of the beacon. Some of them curve gently around the beacon in a graceful arc some distance away from it. Others approach the beacon more directly, but the closer they get to it, the more sharply they turn away from it.

From this, we probably would deduce that some force emanating from the beacon was repelling all attempts to approach it. For example, we might speculate that the beacon is extremely hot and painful to approach.With the coming of daylight, however, we can see that the beacon is situated on the top of a large mountain and that it has nothing whatever to do with the movement of the torchbearers.

They simply followed the easiest paths available to them over the terrain between their points of origin and destination.This masterful analogy was created by Bertrand Russell. In this case, the mountain is the sun, the travelers are the planets, asteroids, comets (and debris from the space program), the footpaths are their orbits, and the coming of daylight is the coming of Einstein's general theory of relativity
........
Unquote

[munirao2001]

Education has to meet seeker's aspirations most effectively with excellence. Education in art must meet the mass requirement for minimal knowledge for appreciation and enjoyment. It also must meet higher levels of requirements for all other stake holders for practice-Students, both naturally and exceptionally talented (very few) and average levels in majority; Opinion makers; event managers; patrons; institutions-Public and Private authorities.
Practitioner-Performer, teacher and scholar have requirement of specialized and higher levels of knowledge over all the others. In art practice, it is endless pursuit and practice for achieving elusive perfection (near perfection) and also excellence. Art education should support sense of mind in ideation, imagination and creativity. Art education also must enable self discipline and inspiration. Discipline and inspiration result in highest levels of commitment, dedication and righteousness. Art practice also must be successful in making the living with pleasure for the practitioner as well as connoisseur. Art must be on the path of growth and development to realize its highest potential. Practitioner and connoisseur have to serve and contribute to make it happen. Art to enlighten must be with potentialities and possibilities of highest levels. Firmly must secure the attained levels of excellence, creating avenue for innovation with excellence and its seamless adaptation and absorption. Innovation and creativity are vitals for art.
All the stakeholders must realize their roles and responsibilities to support the two vitals of innovation and creativity with will sans pride and prejudice.
Karnataka Sangeetha education also needs activism to strengthen these two vitals for realizing the very high potential for its growth, development and appreciation, globally in the near future. This is made possible by great maestros’ practitioners in the past and in the present. All the innovation and creativity with proven or high potential for excellence must be recognized and education systems and methods have to be standardized and universalized. Work has commenced with many practitioners striving and contributing. All the practitioners retaining their originality must come together and work together to achieve the set goals and objectives for practices, impersonally and selflessly.

Recognizing the highest capabilities and potentialities, I desire the leadership of great maestro and great genius with proven excellence Sri Chitraveena Ravikiran and dedicated team of practitioners to work together. First action is recognition of all the innovation and creativity, its evaluation, its standardization and adaptation. Revised systems and methods for practices-teaching, researching and performing are to be established. All my present thinking and actions are driven with this vision and mission.

munirao2001