Is fusion the future ?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 Dec 2009, 23:08

Girish: Here it is.

This is from a discussion on Vazhi Maraiththirukkude and how to interpret it in Bhairavi instead of Desiya Thodi or Nattai Kurinji ( Fusion of a different kind ) http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... ragas.html

Here are the two ensips links. Click to play....

http://www.esnips.com/doc/051a3055-669f ... nBhairavi2 ( how the pallavi line can be bhairavi-ized )

http://www.esnips.com/doc/94ebd2b2-cf18 ... WithAPandC ( the rest )

Please bear with the imperfections that go with just attempts.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 09 Dec 2009, 07:03

Chandrasekhar,

My point was that there is enough mediocrity AND excellence within any genre if you sum the perceptions of all the fans of that genre. While you will find more agreement about mediocrity and excellence at the ends of a spectrum (i.e a rank amateur vs. a legend), the more you go into the middle, the more ones' own preferences and biases start having more influence over objective measures - and you will have more variability on what is excellent and what is not.

I said this mainly due to the possible implication that fusion would somehow "allow" more mediocrity. As VK pointed, this itself depends on a particular set of guidelines for mediocrity - and once you go into a new genre, evaluating it based on standards of another genre (even if a "parent" one like CM vs. fusion) is futile, as you yourselves have indicated. For example, if I (hypothetically of course) apply HM's bar for sruthi suddham and vocal range, AND add film music's bar for tonal fidelity, throw-in western music bar for "sticking to the tempo" (i.e. constant kalapramanam rather than acceleration when doing mel-kala swaras). I could hypothetically conclude "CM allows for a lot for mediocrity to thrive even at their highest/legend level" - and dismiss many of the legendary musicians whose music millions of cm fans enjoy as "mediocre".

Arun

Chandrashekar · Post by **Chandrashekar** » 15 Dec 2009, 21:42

Have been away for a few days. Nice to read all the new posts.

Lahari wrote:I wld agree with arunK here, "If our ears and sensations tell us that the music we are hearing is good, then why overstretch and ask "is it because the person is talented or is his/her mediocrity is being masked by things going on in the background"?

Edward De Bono's book about lateral thinking is what one gets exposed to in colleges...Sure, lateral thinking is more important than plain "for and against" kind of thinking. But the question is when to stop thinking and especially when it comes to music...

Lahari, when I used the word "mediocre" I was not referring to "music that sounded good to me".

I was at that time thinking rather sardonically of those "instant Vidwans" who practise CM for a year or so on some exotic musical instrument, memorise a Vatapi, a Samajavara gamana, an Alaipaayuthe, Madurai's notes, and one thillana, and also some badly-structured "kalpana swaras", and then get into the "cutcheri circuit" with their own huge instant fan following and CDs and foreign trips and all that. Even better for them if they substitute thavil or tabla for mridangam. Just listening to their random meanderings on the raga scales, audaciously labelled as "alapana", makes me squirm with embarrassment to say that this is "my" music.

And, at the same time, many real, talented and sincere musicians are barely noticed.

I do feel that CM is being diluted by such practices. While HM has its gharana traditions and attitudes where the artiste practises for many years, then gets exposure by accompanying the guru on the stage and playing little bits while the guru performs for the main part, etc. before finally graduating to independent performer status, it seems that anything goes in CM. It is a free-for-all. Kids with One Varnam-Vatapi-Endaro-Samajavara-Alaipayuthe-Notes-One Thillana "expertise" are being pushed on stage, fresh from the home-based music mami's melodious music classes, and labelled as Vidwans, and we are so taken in by their "cuteness factor" that we overlook the weaknesses in their music and also the long-term adverse impacts of this behaviour on those kids, on other musicians, and on CM as a whole. Meanwhile, the slightly older ones who are past the "cuteness" period tend to languish, "forgotten but not gone".

(BTW, I am fully aware of exceptions like Ravikiran, U Srinivas, Shashank, etc., all of whom I think of very highly.)

I can imagine that this attitude on the part of rasikas of not discriminating between good and bad could be quite demoralising for real Vidwans out there; a definite disincentive for practising hard, and a good incentive for relying on external appearances and resorting to histrionics.

Talking of De Bono: actually, what I said was that the Six Thinking Hats was written by De Bono, the person who coined the term lateral thinking.
I did not say that the Six Thinking Hats was about lateral thinking

In fact, the Six Thinking Hats is about quite a different concept: Parallel Thinking.

I avoided mentioning that term "parallel thinking" in my earlier post, because I didn't want someone to Google-search it and get me the definition! We Indians are great at definitions: "lateral thinking is defined as..", "parallel thinking is defined as..." etc. It's quite a different story when it comes to applying these things that we are able to define so expertly. Unfortunately, the "exposure" that we receive in school is actually a disadvantage: it leaves us believing that we know something, when in fact we don't. I too read about things like buoyancy, specific gravity and the Dead Sea while at school, but I still wouldn't consider myself a swimmer

Of course parallel thinking is not going to tell us which music is good and which is bad. But it is an effective way to come up with more possibilities to explore, because, as I said, it looks at what "can be". The reason I even brought it up was in response to VK's mention of brainstorming for ideas. The ultimate decision regarding musical appeal will still depend on what the listeners feel.

arunk, you raise some very interesting points. The question therefore is, do we have any standards at all in CM? Or do we go by a popularity contest? A show of hands? No. of CDs sold? What are our standards, if any?

I sometimes get the feeling that CM and film music are slowly but inexorably converging. I also get the feeling that HM is increasingly making a lot of in-roads into the South; the opposite is not true. Are some of us living in denial?

VK, I'm glad you read that book. Did you read the intro as well? De Bono mentions companies that applied this technique, and the amazing results they got. You might like his other books too: The Six Value Medals, and so on. All these concepts and techniques give us enormous leverage in our thinking.

VK, yes, there are lots of great exercises for relaxing as well as strengthening various muscles for improving musical ability. I have with me a book by one Barbara Houseman, called "Finding your Voice", that has about 265 pages of exercises for actors to improve their stage voice. What is really interesting is all the details she goes into, about resonance, bounce, centring and grounding, releasing the sound, supporting the voice, shaping the sound, and so on. And as I mentioned, you also learn how to avoid straining your vocal chords and injuring them by wrong practices. You learn about warming up and warming down the vocal chords. I am sure that any singer who tries even some of these things will find a great improvement in himself/herself.

Nick, one of the requisites for good fusion music that I mentioned in my earlier post was that every participant must be competent at least in his own field. Your examples substantiate that too.

Regarding percussion, it is up to us to show that there is a lot more to our percussion than just beating. Yes, find ways to show them the complexities, the subtleties, the tonal variations, and so on. Don't just let the details get lost in a lot of cacophony. That's where you demonstrate your creativity in structuring the items.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 Dec 2009, 04:15

Interesting thoughts.

Your comments on definitions rather reminded me of music classes! Further, I recall my astonishment, as I picked up the facts (from this forum mostly) that carnatic singers are not taught voice technique, not even the very basics of the school drama class. Thus we have a complete dependence on microphones --- and, a complete absence of microphone technique too. Very sad.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 16 Dec 2009, 07:34

And in spite of this, there are a lot more vocal music concerts than instrumental music concerts -- I'm sure teachers of flute, violin and veena spend more time teaching blowing, bowing and plucking respectively.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 16 Dec 2009, 08:33

Since we are talking voice culture, search for 'voice techniques' in youtube.com . There are quite a few there. Some of the techniques they talk about are general enough to be useful for CM vocalists.

Here is one of them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtp8qqo3qm8 ( but do not stop with this, there are many others by this person and many others )

Chandrashekar · Post by **Chandrashekar** » 16 Dec 2009, 22:12

vk wrote:Since we are talking voice culture, search for 'voice techniques' in youtube.com...

Yes, nice video. Reminds me a bit of the modulations that Balamurali Krishna brings into his own voice.

The guy echoed a thought that was going on in my mind as I was viewing the video: he said, "...remember these are not to replace a systematic approach to the vocal technique..."

I think that point is important. Picking up tips, tricks and techniques like this certainly has its place, but I'd say one must not neglect a comprehensive approach to the whole thing.

For example, Barbara Houseman's book includes relaxation and stretching exercises for every part of the body, because they all contribute to the overall effect.

For example, a flautist may do some fingering and blowing exercises regularly, but what about the condition of the rest of his body? What about his shoulders and neck that are going to be tense and bunched up with holding the playing posture for long hours? What about his arms, back, and so on? Fatigue in all these areas makes the flautist feel tired and perhaps even lowers his creativity during that period. To solve this problem, one can include a whole range of stretching and relaxation exercises for neck, shoulders, back, etc. Hatha Yoga can be very effective too. The idea is not to try to improve musical talent through exercising, but to enhance the ability of the body to do what the brain wants it to do without strain or fatigue setting in. The better your physical condition, the closer you can come to doing whatever your creative mind wants you to do.

Nick, we have a rather strange attitude in our culture: our staunch belief in getting gifts from the gods--in being a favourite of the gods--as opposed to achievement through hard work.

Thus, we believe we are either born with a great voice, or we are not. The idea of actually trying to develop and improve our voice through exercises is quite alien to us. One of our favourite expressions is "god given". We will talk with awe of someone as having a "god given voice".

It is simply not good enough if that person had developed his voice through hard work. Hardly in the same league as being god's chosen one!

This attitude keeps us from trying to better ourselves. We believe we either have something or we don't. While the average Western musician may try to improve himself by practising more, applying new techniques etc., we would rather spend our time praying to God and asking for the gift that we become better at our music. It has to come from god, not from our efforts.

I think this is largely because of our mythological stories. These are of course wonderful stories. But the problem is that rarely in any of those stories does anyone ever solve a problem through hard work. The solutions almost always come from a divine being that suddenly appears, grants him his wishes, and equally suddenly vanishes.

Instead of working hard to find a solution, the characters in the stories pray to various gods to intervene in various problems and grant the appropriate problem-solving boon. If the stories are to be believed, the characters actually pray for centuries, and for millennia even. Never once in all that time does it occur to them to get up and try to do something on their own.

Not so long ago, they were showing, on TV, some parts of the program "India's got talent". They showed the contestants arriving, waiting to be called in, etc. What was interesting was that practically all of them lined up outside the nearby Ganesha temple to ask for a boon that they each win the contest. In other words, god was supposed to play favourites and give the prize to the one praying the hardest, and not to the one most talented. The winner would even get a kick out of saying, "I did not practise at all, but still I got through. It was all due to god's grace".

Yes. It was all about being god's chosen one. After all, any fool can practise, but how many can be god's chosen one, hey?

You must admit, there's a certain appeal to that reasoning

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 16 Dec 2009, 22:35

Let us all believe in " beggers son is a beggars son and judges son is a judges son" day! If wishes were horses, beggers will ride!

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 17 Dec 2009, 11:02

Chandrasekar,
With reference to your post no.58, I wish to state that Vedas and Upanishads of Hindu Religion advocates-Knowledge-Tapasya/austirity-Meditation for achieving the ultimate success in Life. Invoking grace of the Almighty is only after the acquisition of knowledge and doing tapasya, through meditation. Without work, one can not progress to performance and the final stage of attainment. Puranas-mythological stories form part of Bhakthi-Saranagathi prapathi, are only part of work/preparation for the highest stage.
In practical terms, with equal practice, knowledge and performance, chosen ones are few. This 'yadrischikam' or element of chance is perceived as 'yogam' and is attributed to the Grace of the Almighty. As the factors for the success are many times, are beyond logic.

On Voice Culture in IM, KM in particular, when compared to the western music, fundamental difference is IM is based on the 'Gayaki Ang or Padhati' treating vocal as supreme/blessed instrument for Nadothpathi-where as western music is based on the instrumental techniques as supreme. Voice culture is based on making the voice to the best of instrumental sounds. IM voice culture training is based on techniques to harness the Nada through Nabhi-Hrit-Kanta-Nasadi. Attainment of OMkara (AUM), the Nada Brahman. KM practitioners unfortunately do not care for the voice culture, with very few exceptions. Instead of A -U- M Kara, they rely on all other unmusical sound base/sounds for expressions/musical statements/musical communications. They are emboldened by the rasikas not caring for this vital requirement, but caring only for idolatry. HM practitioners do immense practice on voice culture.
With technology coming to the rescue or help, practitioners have taken easy to sound pleasing easily. Rasikas are lapping it up, unquestioningly, unaware of the missing values in the great KM.

munirao2001

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 17 Dec 2009, 12:43

If the scriptures, as you describe them, were followed, then perhaps people would believe in studying and practising the art of driving before taking their vehicles on the road. Regretably, they do not.

Enormous gaps between teaching of their scriptures and practise of their lives seem common to all cultures!

Voice culture [in Western music] is based on making the voice to the best of instrumental sounds.

Is that so? I hadn't come across that idea before. Interesting.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 17 Dec 2009, 12:48

Voice culture [in Western music] is based on making the voice to the best of instrumental sounds.

That's a good idea, and should be followed in Indian music too! Some of the best singers I know hold mastery over some instrument too.

Chandrashekar · Post by **Chandrashekar** » 17 Dec 2009, 13:59

Munirao, I agree the Puranas and stories are only a part of all the works. But unfortunately these are the main things out of all the works that many of us (including myself) are exposed to. And even within these, we are very selective and take only those things that are convenient for us in a particular situation.

For example, didn't Raama have to put a lot of effort to achieve everything that he did, in his avatara as an "ordinary mortal"?
Who cares? Let's ask him to give us some easy solutions, even if he has to deprive more deserving others in order to satisfy us!

I understand the Chosen Ones you refer to. I think we come across such people from time to time, in various fields, and we are struck not only by their talents and abilities but also by their genuine humility and unassuming nature: they have received these additional gifts too, without which their talents would only make them arrogant and destroy them, and therefore would not be a real gift to them (like in the story of Yavakrida in the Mahabharata).

Most important is of course our own efforts, together with which we can seek guidance and strength from the universal energy to help us on our way. It is amazing how things start falling into place by themselves once you put your focus into something and bring all your efforts to bear on it persistently.

One thing I have noticed even in those mythological stories is how something happening now is an effect of some previous cause that was due to some other previous causes, etc. Actions have consequences. Events are connected and influence one another. We cannot expect freebies as and when we like, especially not those that seem to violate certain natural laws of harmony (such as undeserved rewards).

I'm not quite sure of your comments on voice culture in the West being based on instrumental sounds. I never got that impression from the Western vocal training materials I have encountered. Do you have any further information on this? I believe the Western system also has the sound originating from the belly/navel area, taking support from the diaphragm, etc., (Barbara Houseman has given a whole lot of concepts and exercises just for the belly region), though they use different terms and take a more earthly view while our view is more on the spiritual side.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Dec 2009, 21:43

>Most important is of course our own efforts, together with which we can seek guidance and strength from the universal energy to help us on our way

I tend to think this is how most religious-minded people live their lives. The degree varies. This thing about studying hard and then going to the temple to pray is quite common among all peoples of the world, not just India.

These are perfectly human things to do. When the correlation between effort and result is weak or random, people usually resort to requesting the help of a higher power to provide for some predictability and to change the odds in their favor, however sightly. I would not necessarily fault Indians for this practise, it is quite universal, evolved over time as a coping and survival mechanism.

I am sure there are some people who rely purely on divine intervention without their own effort but I think it is a relatively small population.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 18 Dec 2009, 10:36

Nick.H.

Vedas/Upanishads and other sacred scriptures state clearly that the knowledge is complete only when it is put in to practice. Aberrations in practices are due to lack of knowledge only. Taking the uncalculated risks is ignorance. It is common knowledge that putting in to practice, the knowledge calls for very high degree of integrity, patience and equanimity in facing the challenges. Only very few succeed.

munirao2001

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 18 Dec 2009, 11:00

This thing about studying hard and then going to the temple to pray is quite common among all peoples of the world, not just India.

Well, when it comes to studies, it's believed everyone is blessed with a "brain", studying hard is what makes the difference. But when it comes to the arts or music, it's believed to be entirely blessings, and little hard work.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 18 Dec 2009, 11:05

srikant1987
In KM, vocalizations of instrumental techniques are in practice. It is not new. Veena, flute, nagaswaram, mridangam 'sollus' and violin instrumental techniques have been adopted in vocalization, with inspiring or attractive playing techniques of Great Maestros of those instruments. This endeavor is the effective tool for carving out 'style', for attracting, creating identity and gaining easily and quickly the popularity. But in the process, the gayaka dharmam, the ideal in KM, has suffered. Imitations have ended up in truly, unmusical sounds/expressions/musical statements.
The gains are dasavidha gamakams-Veena technique; fast brikhas-flute technique; power of plain note(s) & nokkus-Nagaswaram technique and attractive sancharas akin to sound patterns emanating from bowing and fingering techniques of violin; changes in kalapramanas and 'kalpita' swarams based on mridangam playing techniques and overall, the short premeditated neraval and 'kalpita' swaram patterns in kalpana swaram singing. Influences of Saxophone, mandolin and guitar playing techniques are waiting to happen!

munirao2001

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 18 Dec 2009, 11:22

@munirao2001,

I understand the importance of tradition, etc... but there's another model, very effective and modern, of acquiring knowledge and attaining artistic perfection. And that's called experimental science. Curiosity, intelligence, reason, tenacity, practicality and above all a great desire for artistic excellence are all that are needed. With such skills, many people, even within their own lifetimes evolve "traditions" that have nothing to do with anything written in ancient texts or the quest for any mystical "A-U-M". Here are examples:

* Within their own lifetimes, LGJ and MSG have created unique "traditions" in Carnatic violin playing(and whether you like them or not so too have the L Shankar/Subramaniam brothers)

* Within his own lifetime, Suzuki created a uniquely effective "tradition" of violin pedagogy

* Gotuvadyam Sakharama Rao experimented with a a piece of wood on a tambura and created an entirely new instrumental "tradition" over the last century

* The violin makers of Cremona created extraordinary "traditions" of violin making without claiming to seek the "nAda brahman".

On the other hand, I would like to know any Carnatic vocalist or vaggeyakara, past or present, who we know has referred to ancient texts and practiced voice culture.

Now don't get me wrong...I am extremely susceptible to mysticism but only for its own sake and to me it is an entirely internal process. Any external experience, including listening to "pure sound" or "nAda" or whatever is only a sensual experience like looking at pretty colors. I can understand a quest for God or spirituality that transcends all mundane activity but I would have to include music and "nAda" also in the domain of mundane activity. People who may have "attained God" first may have composed music too such as Tyagaraja and hence there's so much life to his music. But it is erroneous to say that he "attained God" through music. The horse comes before the cart.

God/Brahman can only be an end in itself for its own sake and nothing external can give or take away from it.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 18 Dec 2009, 11:39

Chandrasekar

1) Valmiki's Rama does have character blemishes-failing in his oath to Agni/Devathas on his duties as saha dharmachari of his wife, Sita by rejection and banishment; taking resort to easy solution of clandestine /adharma Vali samhara to win the support of vanaras, king Sugreeva and his friend. Laws and practices of Valmiki's period and narrative limitations of the kavya have contributed to these, aberrations.

2) My context is restricted only to those' chosen ones' more by chance element than their intrinsic qualities. Human history is replete with full of such happenings.

3) The study and influences of Western musical instruments-stringed; wind and percussion and creation of voice culture and training in western music is revealing and easily discernible. Dating of voice culture and training in western music followed but, not preceded the instrumental playing techniques. It is reversal in order in KM.

4) The ideal and technique of 'Nabhi-Hrit-Kanta-Nasa' is spiritual in the sense that it arises out of the spirit of human being.

munirao2001

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 18 Dec 2009, 11:48

Vasanthakokilam

The need to feel secure amidst uncertainity and deep sense of insecurity, compels humans resorting to prayer for the grace, with weakness and strong belief in 'miracle' happenings. Humans act confidently without resorting to prayer and need for the grace, when they are fully secure. Sense of security comes only with knowledge, austerity/tapasya/works and meditation.

munirao2001

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 18 Dec 2009, 12:13

Uday_shankar,

1) "knowledge-tapasya/austerity/works-mediation" to attain the highest and the ultimate is inclusive of experimental science and not exclusive. Only the terminology becomes contemporary, through updating.

2) Great Maestros become innovators and establish 'Bani', but the tradition remains the very substance. The pursuit of tradition-Classical excellence has two objectives - highest attainment of spiritual progress and entertainment of rasikas. Truly, the aims of the Great Maestros are achievement of Classical Excellence.

3) Saint Thyagaraja's composition 'Sobhillu Sapthaswara'- mentioning the art and science of 'Nabhi-Hrit-Kanta-Nasadula yandu' is one great example.

4) Please read my post on 'Nada Satchatkaram' for better appreciation of this critical aspect of music-IM in particular.

5) Process of attainments are based on consciousness - 1) External 2) Internal 3) supra or intuitive. The highest is achieved in Unity of consciousness.

munirao2001

Chandrashekar · Post by **Chandrashekar** » 19 Dec 2009, 16:43

I'm not really keen on getting into all kinds of dogma in trying to understand the role of one's own efforts vs divine grace in attaining excellence.

A number of studies have been done on what makes some people or groups do better than others.

One of these is an extremely interesting and very readable book by one Malcolm Gladwell, called "Outliers" (also available in audio format which is really enjoyable to listen to), which especially looks at people who have been considered geniuses in their field, including Bill Gates, Bill Joy of Sun microsystems, The Beatles, Mozart, and others.

[Of course they are all Westerners. We would never do such a study on our own "geniuses"; never heap such a deadly insult on them as to seek to verify their Chosen status

]

What the study finds is that all those geniuses had put in enormous numbers of hours of work into their chosen fields during their formative years. The trend seemed to be: those who turned out to be "geniuses" had put in around 10000 hours of work (or more), the "amateurs" around 2000, and the "good", somewhere in between.

The geniuses themselves describe the many advantages they had over other people, which were all external and outside their control.
They had had access to special opportunities that were simply not available to most others. These even included where and when they were born, and what time of the year they were born (this had nothing to do with astrology, but was due to extraneous factors created by and occurring in society, also described in the book, and are amazing revelations of how things happening around you, over which you have no say, can decide your fate).

Another book to read would be "Genius explained" by Michael Howe.

I hope that people would at least go through Outliers before brusquely dismissing these ideas with a hoary quotation from Vasishta muni or whatever, asserting that all those things happened because they were "Chosen" and not the other way round. (At least find out first what were the things that "happened"; we could then have a more sensible discussion.) I would consider it a bit presumptuous to assume that we already know everything there is to be known.

lahari · Post by **lahari** » 19 Dec 2009, 20:25

Maybe its time to close the post.......

We are discussing voice techniques, books on geniuses and excellence and our good old philosophy.

Someone could start a new post titled "all and sundry" and keep discussing anything and everything under the sun.

Bye for now.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 19 Dec 2009, 21:02

Well, we moved on from fusion, but perhaps that's because there is, as things stand today, a limited amount we can say.

It's the quality of the conversation that matters, however, rather than the subject, and the quality is excellent, with way to go yet.

(God willing... of course)

.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Dec 2009, 21:23

Chandrashekar: As it turns out, Outliers is sitting right in front of me for the past few weeks. I have to find some time to read it. May be your mention will push me to do it sooner.

I am not sure whom your post is aimed at. Definitely what you say has a ton of merit and truth. I do not think anyone here thinks too far away from the main grain of what you say.

But I do think you are taking a dim view of normal human irrational tendencies that are really part and parcel of the human DNA. And secondly, your dim of view of Indians in this matter sounds disproportionate. We do have our own idiosyncrasies but those are just culturally influenced subtypes of how people are everywhere.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 19 Dec 2009, 22:56

We have too many scientists and doctors and no sabari!

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 20 Dec 2009, 07:40

Here's an interesting review of another Gladwell book by Stephen Pinker where he refers to Outliers and other previous works. (Needless to say, I'm with Pinker on this. As far as the thread is concerned? The subject is "Is fusion the future?" - my answer is "Yes!")

Chandrashekar · Post by **Chandrashekar** » 20 Dec 2009, 10:24

Yes, we're getting totally off-topic. Get back in line, everyone

gn.sn, if one review (someone else's one-sided opinions) was all there was to judging someone or their works, then the world would have lost a lot of great people, including Thomas Edison whose primary school teacher told his mother he was "addled". In my own opinion, that review is a bit too dismissive, and, in all fairness, you would do better to read that book and decide for yourself. I think you will find that it certainly gives food for thought.

VK, what I hope is that my comments will give the proverbial kick to get us back to doing our best and reclaiming that old reputation we used to have, of being the centre of excellence for a lot of things.

Anyway, let us indeed get back to the topic. Now. I believe it was about fusion and the future, wasn't it?

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 20 Dec 2009, 11:14

Chandrashekar wrote:in all fairness, you would do better to read that book and decide for yourself

What makes you think I haven't? I said I'm with Pinker on this one; if anything I have an even lower opinion of Outliers than Pinker does. (And no, you don't want to know what I think of Edison.

) However, you'll be pleased to know that Gladwell sells millions of copies of his books.

And yes, back to fusion and the future (the same thing in my opinion).

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 20 Dec 2009, 23:34

I was reminded of this thread today, when one of the speakers at our Rasikas Get Together spoke of asking MSS how she was able to accomplish some musical achievement. She replied that it was because she practised for six hours a day and that it was not enough that God had given her the voice; she would not be able to do such things without the practice.

Chandrashekar · Post by **Chandrashekar** » 21 Dec 2009, 17:30

Talking of low opinions, I guess a whole lot of people held very low opinions of those outliers who claimed that the world was round, not flat or that the earth was not the centre of the universe; subjected them to similar sneering condescension and worse. And ironically enough, most of the lighting in India even today can be credited to the man who apparently was worthless.

Nick, yes, I remember hearing, from someone in the music circles a number of years ago, that MSG used to practise on his violin for 16 hours a day during his younger days. While there may be some doubts about such numbers, he certainly put in an extraordinary amount of practice.

I also remember reading, a long time ago, a quote from a very accomplished classical pianist: "If I don't practise for one day, I know it; if I don't practise for two days, my friends know it; if I don't practise for three days, the whole world knows it."

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 21 Dec 2009, 18:35

To be fair to them, I think that the majority of our musicians have put in a huge amount of work, and that they continue to practice daily, some of them for many hours. They do at least as much "work" as those who attend office for ten hours a day!

It is a different matter that there may be elements absent from that practise that might be of great benefit to the voice quality and even the health of those individuals.

Your 'pianist' quote... I heard attributed to UKS. But I guess it is something that could occur to any musician!

If I don't practice for one day, I can tell; If I don't practice for two days, the mridangam can tell; I don't practice for three days, the audience can tell

(I think I could happily listen to UKS after a month of not practising!!!)