Bharat Sangeet Utsav 2009: Concerts to be seen at

Review the latest concerts you have listened to.
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harimau
Posts: 1819
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Post by harimau »

There are concerts that one cannot miss because of once-in-a-lifetime musical experience can be had there. For instance, Woodstock has obtained mythic proportions in the musical firmament as a concert that, if one has attended it, gives one bragging rights for the rest of one's life.

I decided that certain concerts of Bharat Sangeet Utsav deserve a similar status and chose to attend some concerts that were there for the star -- if not musical -- value.

Who could skip the curtain-raiser featuring Ravikiran and Anil Srinivasan? After trying to figure out what is the best way to obtain seats to this coveted event, I decided the best approach is to simply march up to the doors as if I owned the place and intimidate the dwarapalakas by staring them down. The ploy worked wonderfully and I found myself listening to the concert from my usual perch in the 7th row.

As the concert progressed, it dawned on me what a great visionary (deerghadarshi) Sri Deekshithar was. He probably foresaw what might happen to his stately compositions in Carnatic music and deliberately left behind a corpus knows as the Nottuswara Sahithyas which could be mangled but as luck would have it, it was Gamakakriya (which I like to call Harimaupriya) that got caught between the strings of the chitraveena and the keys of the keyboard and died a horrible death. Doesn't history mean anything? After all, here is the composition "Meenakshi Me Mudham Dehi" which Sri Deekshithar listened to as he drew his last breath which was being subjected to an experiment. Wasn't "Shyamale Meenakshi" or "Sakthi Sahitha Ganapathim" sufficient to display the capabilities and limitations of the keyboard?

I wanted to drown my sorrows and staggered out to find a pub.

The next concert that was a must in the list was the first-time-ever double-billing of T M Krishna and his wife Sangeetha Krishna (nee Sivakumar) variously called a Carnatic-Carnatic jugalbandhi and a Carnatic Duet.

The song list was:

Mathe - Khamas (D)
Ninne Nera Namminanu - Pantuvarali (D)
Bhuvinidasudane - Sriranjani (S)
Kanaka Saila Viharini - Punnagavarali - (K)
Bhogeendra Sayinam - Kuntalavarali (D)

The letters D, S and K stand respectively for Duet, Sangeetha and Krishna so that you know how exactly the Duet progressed.

Then Krishna started the raga alapana in Sri. This was followed by an alapana of Arabhi by Sangeetha. Then came Gauri (announced by Krishna though there was no need to) and a total of 10 brief alapanas ensued, alternating between Krishna and Sangeetha. This was followed by tanam in four ragas again alternating beween the two singers. Halfway through the alapanas, it was quite clear what was happening: it was going to be Deekshithar's monumental Chaturdasa Ragamalika. After rendering the sahithyam, the duo alternatated swarams for the 14 ragas and handed over the concert to the percussion artists for the Tani Avarthanam.

Then Krishna announced the final piece. It was going to be verses from "Abijnana Sakunthalam" to be sung as viruttham. Krishna was going to sing the first verse which describes the scene where Dushyantha has seen Sakunthala and is smitten by her. The next verse is where Sakunthala goes through a similar traumatic experience. The third verse describes Sakunthala's idea of writing a letter to Dushyantha. Krishna announced that after this they would render the final composition.

Krishna opened with Hameer Kalyani. Sangeetha sang a raga I have forgotten and then Hindolam and then Krishna picked up Desh. After this, the final composition was revealed! It was "Premayil Yaavum Maranthome"! Here was T M Krishna singing in GNB's role and Sangeetha (GNB's disciple's disciple -- she has learnt from Charumathi Ramachandran) singing in M S Subbulakshmi's role. The concert ended in thunderous applause and when Carnatica's Ramanathan announced that the next day was the pair's wedding anniversary, there was another round of applause. Truly a show worthy of the full-house crowd!

Yet another concert that was not to be missed was that of the Madras String Quartet. This has been reviewed earlier by others but the interesting thing was that the srithi box was seemingly switched on only during the alapanas of the Carnatic ragas. As the Carnatic pieces were played, I couldn't hear the drone but that did not prevent one from identifying the ragas or understanding that the artists stayed true to the sruthi. The other interesting thing was that there was no obvious method by which they kept talam; they were not seen tapping their toes or feet to maintain the talam yet they were fully in control. Another interesting tidbit is that they had notations for the Carnatic items as well and played their instruments looking at the sheet music so they couldn't have been looking at the audience for maintaining talam. Does this mean that with good training our vocalists and instrumentalists can do away with the pot-bangers? :D

Of course, one had to be seen at the finale by Aruna Sayeeram which drew a capacity crowd. Many people came just to see the cow and the snake and were not disappointed.
Last edited by harimau on 14 Nov 2009, 06:05, edited 1 time in total.

cacm
Posts: 2212
Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

YOUR suspense is killing me! Did you find the pub?If you did can you say where it is? I show up there on only a visitor visa....VKV

harimau
Posts: 1819
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Post by harimau »

vkv43034 wrote:YOUR suspense is killing me! Did you find the pub?If you did can you say where it is? I show up there on only a visitor visa....VKV
There is a bar in the hotel itself. It is named the Bike and the Barrel or something like that.

I am thinking of starting a pub across from Narada Gana Sabha, the largest auditorium among the music sabhas. I am thinking of naming it The Cow & The Snake, if you get my drift. :D

cacm
Posts: 2212
Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

Harimamu,
You are very funny & perceptive! May be too good for your own good!....like to meet you & get the right dope- not the real one people use but your views & news about musicians& their capabilities - ....I am sort of a scout- not boy scout as u would have guessed- & am asked my opinion about promising budding artists etc for various reasons-mostly because I have been around a while, deaf & senile?-....vkv
Last edited by cacm on 15 Nov 2009, 22:14, edited 1 time in total.

rbharath
Posts: 2333
Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 10:50

Post by rbharath »

I was sure harimau would name 'bikes & barrels' here.

I loved reading this post.

indeed the MSQ were having the notations of carnatic songs, in western music notations with the four-line pages and their symbols.

[email protected]
Posts: 2
Joined: 07 Nov 2009, 21:25

Post by [email protected] »

It is with some interest that I have been observing the acerbity that some members of this forum have for piano music, or indeed Anil Srinivasan in particular. Posts get written about a concert he played at, and then the old faithfuls jump in and cook his talent for dinner and enjoy their abilities as chefs. Harimau in particular turns out a veritable feast, and other faithfuls such as vkv and rbharath echo their appreciation of a job well done.

While individual tastes may vary and people can certainly express their esteemed (and no doubt authoritative?) views on what constitutes "proper music" and "easy pieces for keyboard", I believe we are becoming akin to the pigs in Animal Farm, who rescue the world from power-mad humans and then become power-crazy themselves. I only alluded to pigs given harimau's preference for using animal descriptions of musicians. (squirrels, dogs, cows, snakes etc)

Anil Srinivasan and Sikkil Gurucharan recently performed to a standing ovation at the 1500-strong TED (www.ted.com) conference - the apex conference for technology, entertainment and design specialists in the world (check out ted.com), and will be recepients of awards for contemporary music next week in Singapore. TED perfomers are chosen only by invitation, and is a purely American institution, so this is a very noteworthy achievement for a duo that is growing from strength to strength. Their music has even been featured at the music departments at Oxford University and at Juilliard, the world's foremost institution for western classical music.

Flinging mud at such musicians and bringing them down to harimau's animal kingdom is reflective of poor taste, an inability to understand anything beyond the limited confines of his putrid imagination. The trend of others jumping in on this bandwagon and enjoying the mudslinging only puts the whole community in further disrepute.

If we don't understand something, I guess the right approach is to speak either to the person (if he can be accessed), or talking to others who may have an explanation. I admit that personal tastes can vary, but prejudice of any form lies contrary to the very idea of music. And rbharath dissappoints with his encouragement of such stereotyping. Surely, the portals of IIT have honed him towards more enlightened thought.

If harimau went to the concert only to poke fun at someone else's effort and talent, I question his motives and rather than laugh along with and enjoy the poor attempt at humour, decry such lowly intentions. You do not have to like a musician. But you don't have to attend their concerts either, merely in order to prove a point.

Anil Srinivasan, Ravikiran, Sikkil Gurucharan etc. are gaining a lot of momentum from serious musicologists (outside the all-too knowledgeable world of rasikas.org) for the formats they are charting. Lets try to understand what they are doing. Mud throwing can happen later.

Peace.

uday_shankar
Posts: 1475
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Post by uday_shankar »

sevenswaras,

I think your reaction is way too melodramatic :).

I actually liked the gamaka-oriented Purvikalyani melody coming from the chitravina with the impressionistic piano strains in the background. It didn't bother me at all and didn't strike me as doing some great disservice to Muthswamy Dikshithar. Dikshithar remained untarnished and arguably embellished by impressionist piano !

But it is all a matter of taste - you can never explain it to somebody who doesn't "get" it.

And it really doesn't matter that people may not "get" it. I am sure others "get" things that I don't. In some cases I am even unwilling to "try" it - for example I have no desire to develop a "taste" for any meat-based cuisine.

The great violinist L Shankar has produced some outstanding pieces (along with a lot of mediocre ones) that combine Carnatic ideas with Western Classical ideas - for example the rAgamalika following his Savitri piece in the album Who's to Know. That album never found an audience among the die-hard types but great Carnatic vidvans have acknowledged personally to me its musical worth and their love for it.

So let fools be fools with respect to some things and let me be a fool with respect to others :).

jimihendrix
Posts: 11
Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 21:05

Post by jimihendrix »

I just read your post Harimau. I am really surprised at the attitude rasikas have. In india, its so easy to criticize something that is done with dedication, true love and passion. Yeah!!! Go on!!! Cheer for slumdog millionaire... Can't an artiste be left at peace?? Is this how evolution works?? How spiritual are you Mr.Harimau? If we had been neanderthals do you think you'd have posted this comment?? Take world music. Every music has evolved and evolution is part and parcel of everything. If Jimi Hendrix hadn't revolutionized blues music, would there be something called as rock? If robert johnson hadn't played 18 songs in a lonely recording studio near the crossroads, you think rock'n'roll would have come into existence?

What do you want from music? Do you go to concerts simply to raise you collar and say that you are a critic? Well... that is immature dude!!!

I will tell you if you don't know. Because BAKTHI MUSIC EVOLVED, we have something like Carnatic music. YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK??? CARNATIC MUSIC HAS CREATED PEOPLE LIKE YOU. ITS NOT ABOUT LOVE FOR MUSIC ANYMORE. IF OOTHUKAADU VENKATA SUBBU IYER CAN COMPOSE A "NATAVARATHARUNI" IN THE 16TH CENTURY, IT WAS BECAUSE PEOPLE REALLY DIDNT HAVE ANY OPINIONS. THEY JUST DIDNT CARE WHAT IT WAS. THEY JUST CONNECTED. DON'T CAUCASIANS AND INDIANS MARRY? YOU WOULD ACCEPT THAT OF COURSE. BUT, IF ITS SOMETHING AS PURE AS MUSIC, YOU GUYS HAVE A PROBLEM.

Why do you people talk so much?? IS MUSIC ABOUT SOMEONE SINGING BETTER THAN SOMEONE ELSE? IS THAT VICTORIOUS FEELING FILLED WITH VANITY MUSIC TO YOU? IF YOU THINK THAT WAY, THEN YOU HAVE TO GROW UP. BE A GLOBE TROTTER. TRAVEL AND KNOW THE WORLD. CONNECT WITH EVERY EMOTION, EVERY PERSON, CONNECT WITH LIFE AND REALIZE HOW MUCH WE DON'T KNOW. THEN COME BACK TO YOUR LIFE WHICH LIKE A CUBICLE.

HAVE A GLOBAL OUTLOOK. IF YOU DON'T, YOU ARE GOING TO KILL OUR BEAUTIFUL CLASSICAL MUSIC FOR SOME PETTY THINGS SUCH AS YOUR TIME PASS( YOUR POST WHICH DIDNT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME). IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT WESTERN MUSIC, ITS DEPTH, DISCIPLINE, ITS PERFECTION OR ITS HARMONIC OR ARRANGEMENT STRUCTURE, IT IS FINE.

My request : stop making a fool of yourself. We are all mere mortals here. Accept the change and let it be. Enjoy the cultural differences rather than fighting with them. I pity you.

May the divine consciousness find you and bless and lead you to the truth.

Om namaha shivaya,

Jimi Hendrix.

melakartha
Posts: 45
Joined: 06 Jun 2008, 20:52

Post by melakartha »

in the past i have been critical of some of harimau's style of writing and criticising concerts, but here i am writing smthing in defence of him. As a senior (in terms of age only) member of this forum i appeal to the moderators of this forum to check the entry of elements like 'seven swaram' and 'jimi hendrix' who in all their CAPS seem to shouting at the top of their voices.
it is easy for anyone to guess that these new members to rasikas are elements close to the artists who have been criticised or worse the artists themselves in pseudo names!!. after this shouting session, u will see that they will quietly disappear. i have been seeing this in so many threads now.
At this rate, all artists will want only good things to be written abt them and if not, they will descend on rest of us who dont "get it" like a ton of bricks. Just because an american organisation gave someone standing ovation doesnt mean that it is the best music or that no one shud have a critical opinion of it.
once again, a fervent appeal to mods to check contents posted by first time members before troubling us all with it.

Regards
Ramabadran.

asrini
Posts: 59
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 00:26

Post by asrini »

Dear Sri Ramabadran

First of all, it is an honour to meet you, even though it is in virtual space.

As you are an older member of the forum, you will know that I usually write myself.

I restrained myself from commenting on this post when someone forwarded it to me earlier. I neither endorse these views nor did I ask "elements close to me" to post anything.

Frankly, all of this is too much fuss over nothing. If someone does not like either my music or anyone else's, they have a right to their opinion. I agree with you in that harimau's post this time was far less incendiary :)

Please lets focus on listening to more good music, in whatever form, wherever it may be.

I too appeal to the moderator to lock this thread.

Anil Srinivasan.

asrini
Posts: 59
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 00:26

Post by asrini »

And on a totally different note, I am thrilled (actually, super excited) to announce that I will be getting married this coming February. Since this forum has become a sort of support group of its own (with all resident fights, arguments, accusations as well as special moments such as these) - you have it from the horse's mouth :).

I now look forward to yet another meaningful collaboration. (And no, this is not a gimmick to end a tense situation - I seriously am entering the wonderful world of matrimony :) :))

Anil Srinivasan

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10958
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Congratulations Anil!

cacm
Posts: 2212
Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

Dear Anil,
Congragulations & all the best.....Also pl congragulate S.Gurucharan for me on the prestigious award. I am happy for both you & S.G. in being recognised for your poineering efforts. VKV

Sam Swaminathan
Posts: 846
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 08:45

Post by Sam Swaminathan »

Anil

congratulations and wish you the very best....I agree with your comments on the rights of individuals to like or dislike what they hear, as long as what they write stays with in the borders of decency. As for as I am concerned, Harimau has written his opinions which can be fairly discussed as well as contested. I do not think there is any need to lock this thread.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

Anil - CONGRATULATIONS!! Best Wishes for a very successful jugalbandhi (padinArum peTRu peru vAzhvu vAzhga!)...

(BTW - can you or VKV let us know details of the award you and Sri Gurucharan are to receive?)

arasi
Posts: 16873
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

Anil,
Very happy to hear the good news. One happy bride she will be, marrying someone as gifted and gentlemanly as yourself. I hope she in turn makes you feel that you are fortunate too in getting a partner like her.
The best to both of you!

cacm
Posts: 2212
Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

[email protected] wrote:
Anil Srinivasan and Sikkil Gurucharan recently performed to a standing ovation at the 1500-strong TED (www.ted.com) conference - the apex conference for technology, entertainment and design specialists in the world (check out ted.com), and will be recepients of awards for contemporary music next week in Singapore. TED perfomers are chosen only by invitation, and is a purely American institution, so this is a very noteworthy achievement for a duo that is growing from strength to strength. Their music has even been featured at the music departments at Oxford University and at Juilliard, the world's foremost institution for western classical music.
Peace
...................................THIS IS THE AWARD I WAS REFERRING TO. VKV

cacm
Posts: 2212
Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

Jimihendrix,
I would appreciate if you can elaborate on three of points in your otherwise interesting post:

1) From what I have known & seen on history of Blues & Rock&roll mostly in PBS Programs in USA by experts like Billy Taylor& others Rock & Roll preceded Jimmy Hendrix. It was a LOGICAL development from blues to WOOGIE-BOOGIE to rock & roll where there was a historical attempt to prevent giving etc. credit to black americans like Richard Little etc. Of course the "Real" Jimmi Hendrix was an innovator & great artist on his own but to claim he did as much as you claim is historically NOT accurate I feel ,.Would like to be enlightened further.
2) Can you define what you mean by Truth? If you can come up with a good definition most of the problems may be solved?
3) In the census forms in 50's & 60's if not later in USA I was told Indians are Caucasians & asked to fill the form on that basis. Are there new data& findings that I am not aware of?......By the way I always thought most things about Indians are mixed up like the so called Aryans& dravidians esp in South intermingled to produce the so called South Indian Brahmin- I am one myself- The point is most thinmgs about India& Indians are MIXED UP. Persons like Michael Wood are contributing to makin sense about mostly what Icall mythological accounts about MOST things about India.....VKV
Last edited by cacm on 18 Nov 2009, 05:06, edited 1 time in total.

kamalamba
Posts: 344
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:26

Post by kamalamba »

Congratulations Anil

Look forward to your concert next week in Singapore with Sikkil Gurucharan.

Mohan Balasubramanian

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

Thanks VKV.

rajeshnat
Posts: 10121
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Post by rajeshnat »

Anil ,
Best wishes on your Feb 2010 slot promotion

tkb
Posts: 695
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 11:14

Post by tkb »

Congrats Anil ji.

melakartha
Posts: 45
Joined: 06 Jun 2008, 20:52

Post by melakartha »

Let me join the rest in congratulating and wishing you the very best Mr Anil, for "collaborating" in life too !!

It was only common sense conjecture that deduced that the ppl posting those offensive posts were known to the artists. how else would they know that u all got a standing ovation in the conference, also know each and every detail of your upcoming schdules unless of course all that they do is track your websites and travel with you all all the time!! Thats all. There was however no malice intended towards you and i am glad that you personally wrote to clarify the position.

Best wishes
Ramabadran
Last edited by melakartha on 18 Nov 2009, 11:05, edited 1 time in total.

Rasika911
Posts: 521
Joined: 09 Mar 2009, 06:11

Post by Rasika911 »

asrini wrote:Frankly, all of this is too much fuss over nothing. If someone does not like either my music or anyone else's, they have a right to their opinion. I agree with you in that harimau's post this time was far less incendiary :)

I too appeal to the moderator to lock this thread.
With all due respect, your statements are contradictory.
If every thread that has a negative statement is locked then the whole forum itself might as well be locked.
When you perform music there will be people who like your music and those who dont, this is natural and true for any musician, there is nothing that can be done about it. I think its important that a musician realises that. I am sorry if this sort of post is against forum rules.

Congrats on your marriage :) :) :)
Wish you a happy married life :)

Rasika911
Posts: 521
Joined: 09 Mar 2009, 06:11

Post by Rasika911 »

jimihendrix wrote:I just read your post Harimau. I am really surprised at the attitude rasikas have. In india, its so easy to criticize something that is done with dedication, true love and passion. Yeah!!! Go on!!! Cheer for slumdog millionaire... Can't an artiste be left at peace?? Is this how evolution works?? How spiritual are you Mr.Harimau? If we had been neanderthals do you think you'd have posted this comment?? Take world music. Every music has evolved and evolution is part and parcel of everything. If Jimi Hendrix hadn't revolutionized blues music, would there be something called as rock? If robert johnson hadn't played 18 songs in a lonely recording studio near the crossroads, you think rock'n'roll would have come into existence?

What do you want from music? Do you go to concerts simply to raise you collar and say that you are a critic? Well... that is immature dude!!!

I will tell you if you don't know. Because BAKTHI MUSIC EVOLVED, we have something like Carnatic music. YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK??? CARNATIC MUSIC HAS CREATED PEOPLE LIKE YOU. ITS NOT ABOUT LOVE FOR MUSIC ANYMORE. IF OOTHUKAADU VENKATA SUBBU IYER CAN COMPOSE A "NATAVARATHARUNI" IN THE 16TH CENTURY, IT WAS BECAUSE PEOPLE REALLY DIDNT HAVE ANY OPINIONS. THEY JUST DIDNT CARE WHAT IT WAS. THEY JUST CONNECTED. DON'T CAUCASIANS AND INDIANS MARRY? YOU WOULD ACCEPT THAT OF COURSE. BUT, IF ITS SOMETHING AS PURE AS MUSIC, YOU GUYS HAVE A PROBLEM.

Why do you people talk so much?? IS MUSIC ABOUT SOMEONE SINGING BETTER THAN SOMEONE ELSE? IS THAT VICTORIOUS FEELING FILLED WITH VANITY MUSIC TO YOU? IF YOU THINK THAT WAY, THEN YOU HAVE TO GROW UP. BE A GLOBE TROTTER. TRAVEL AND KNOW THE WORLD. CONNECT WITH EVERY EMOTION, EVERY PERSON, CONNECT WITH LIFE AND REALIZE HOW MUCH WE DON'T KNOW. THEN COME BACK TO YOUR LIFE WHICH LIKE A CUBICLE.

HAVE A GLOBAL OUTLOOK. IF YOU DON'T, YOU ARE GOING TO KILL OUR BEAUTIFUL CLASSICAL MUSIC FOR SOME PETTY THINGS SUCH AS YOUR TIME PASS( YOUR POST WHICH DIDNT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME). IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT WESTERN MUSIC, ITS DEPTH, DISCIPLINE, ITS PERFECTION OR ITS HARMONIC OR ARRANGEMENT STRUCTURE, IT IS FINE.

My request : stop making a fool of yourself. We are all mere mortals here. Accept the change and let it be. Enjoy the cultural differences rather than fighting with them. I pity you.

May the divine consciousness find you and bless and lead you to the truth.

Om namaha shivaya,

Jimi Hendrix.
:P
Did hairmau hit a nerve there?
I also do believe that its important for carnatic music to have a global outlook but, it should not loose its identity.
The beauty of carnatic music lies in the proper usage of gamakas and improvisation. We classify ragas as 'heavy' and classical (if i can use that word) because of the variety of gamakas used. Thodi is a heavy raga beacuse there are 20 different ways to approach the gandharam.
The glides and ornamentation is what makes our music beautiful and the best instrument to achieve this is the veena. I dont see how its possible to produce high quality carnatic music on the piano.

asrini
Posts: 59
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 00:26

Post by asrini »

With all sincerity, I only appealed for the thread to be locked because some folks were getting loud and offensive.

If you had read my post, you would have also noticed that I said that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't know how much more I can do to express myself and my openness to criticism. Unless you want to criticize that also :)

There are obviously those who follow my music closely and those who do not subscribe to certain aspects of it. I am merely trying to play.

I will now go and enjoy composing some more music and looking forward to 2010 :)

musicfan_4201
Posts: 199
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:34

Post by musicfan_4201 »

asrini wrote:With all sincerity, I only appealed for the thread to be locked because some folks were getting loud and offensive.

If you had read my post, you would have also noticed that I said that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't know how much more I can do to express myself and my openness to criticism. Unless you want to criticize that also :)

There are obviously those who follow my music closely and those who do not subscribe to certain aspects of it. I am merely trying to play.

I will now go and enjoy composing some more music and looking forward to 2010 :)
Why should the thread be locked. A music lover cannot be a critic???
The best thing would be to keep quiet than making a mockery of the whole thing by posting thru duplicate IDs / friends-relatives coming to support the cause and disappear after a couple of posts from nowhere and the musician himself giving a clarification. Funny !!
I think every one has the right to express what is good and bad about any music. This is extremley kiddish and lacks maturity. My 2 cents.

Rasika911
Posts: 521
Joined: 09 Mar 2009, 06:11

Post by Rasika911 »

I think artists always make a mistake by responding to things said here. Its better to keep a distance between artist and rasika - from the artists point of view. And im also pretty sure almost all the performing artist check this space out pretty often and more than we all think :P
But i also think that some of the things said here are a result of people show less restraint due to anonymity...an issue tmk raised earlier in the year.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10958
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

I can understand how painful it is for an artist to spend a better part of their life time honing an art form and put in all the hard work necessary only to be trashed in a public forum as not worthy of a concert level presentation. That has got to hurt. What is probably more painful is there was no counter point of view from someone else who attended the concert until Uday provided it. I think those who were admiring the original poster for his satirical writing style or for pouring less venom than usual, or completely buying into the OP's point of view without attending a concert of that format or listening to a CD of the artist are forgetting that part of it. The opinions of the OP are not new and it was not a review of what actually happened in that concert but a rehash of the OPs personal point of view which could have been written without even attending the concert.

Having said that, in a public forum like this, the artist has to look the other way and not get in the middle of this without being accused by the detractors of being defensive/offensive/etc. It is a lose-lose propostion. I fully realize it is just easy for me to say that but I do not see what else an artist can do, however painful it is. As Anil himself wrote, just keep doing your thing. Don't give the detractors undue attention.

Rasika911: Before coming to any conclusions about carnatic music losing its identity, the issue of gamakas, thodi, etc. based on what you read here, listen to their CDs or attend their concerts. If you had already done that, that is fine, if not, it is worthy of that exploration. ( As a sidebar, in general, for any new aesthetic experience, a little bit of openness to receiving it is necessary but once it penetrates the benefits are also profound )

Always_Evolving
Posts: 216
Joined: 16 Oct 2007, 08:33

Post by Always_Evolving »

musicfan_4201 wrote:The best thing would be to keep quiet than making a mockery of the whole thing by posting thru duplicate IDs / friends-relatives coming to support the cause and disappear after a couple of posts from nowhere and the musician himself giving a clarification. Funny !!
musicfan_4201 you are way out of line to insinuate that the musician is posting through proxies / duplicate IDs. If you wish to continue the discussion on the merits or reply to posts that is well and good... But unless you have some evidence please do not cast aspersions on the integrity of individuals -- especially artists.

musicfan_4201
Posts: 199
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:34

Post by musicfan_4201 »

Vk,
fully respect your views. My only point is that rasikas will have their say in every concert. In respect of the OP comments, I guess even the mods were party to it, enjoying the satirical writing style !!
If you think Harimau is biased, why cant Uday be biased in his views. Therefore it is difficult to argue.
The only choice for the artist, I reckon, would be to ignore, than to justify the stands for couple of posts which erupts like a volcano from no where.

cienu
Posts: 2392
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 11:40

Post by cienu »

musicfan_4201 wrote:If you think Harimau is biased, why cant Uday be biased in his views.
The only difference being that while Uday would never venture out to a program he is un-interested in, for quaint reasons the initiator of this thread has the uncanny knack of perpetually landing up in programs , were much to his dislike, snakes,monkeys and indisciplined squirrels dance & sing with gay abandon :)

jimihendrix
Posts: 11
Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 21:05

Post by jimihendrix »

vkv43034 wrote:Jimihendrix,
I would appreciate if you can elaborate on three of points in your otherwise interesting post:

1) From what I have known & seen on history of Blues & Rock&roll mostly in PBS Programs in USA by experts like Billy Taylor& others Rock & Roll preceded Jimmy Hendrix. It was a LOGICAL development from blues to WOOGIE-BOOGIE to rock & roll where there was a historical attempt to prevent giving etc. credit to black americans like Richard Little etc. Of course the "Real" Jimmi Hendrix was an innovator & great artist on his own but to claim he did as much as you claim is historically NOT accurate I feel ,.Would like to be enlightened further.
2) Can you define what you mean by Truth? If you can come up with a good definition most of the problems may be solved?
3) In the census forms in 50's & 60's if not later in USA I was told Indians are Caucasians & asked to fill the form on that basis. Are there new data& findings that I am not aware of?......By the way I always thought most things about Indians are mixed up like the so called Aryans& dravidians esp in South intermingled to produce the so called South Indian Brahmin- I am one myself- The point is most thinmgs about India& Indians are MIXED UP. Persons like Michael Wood are contributing to makin sense about mostly what Icall mythological accounts about MOST things about India.....VKV
I am terribly sorry if i was too jumped up about the fact that mr.harimau criticized Mr.Anil Srinivasan. Take this as a personal apology, Mr.Harimau.

@VKV : 1)I quoted robert johnson, so that you would relate it to the beginning of everything. I took jimi hendrix as an example, because he was an icon at that time, intimidated as i am with your authority on rocknroll, blues, jazz,bossa nova,classical, etc.
2)I also mentioned, the differences are to love each other and not to throw bricks at each other.
3)Talking about the truth, I was talking about the emotional addiction.
FYI : When we come across events that create emotions, there is a neuron network that identifies this. This sends a signal to the hypothalamus, which produces peptides that come in contact with our cells, and changes them. Every cell is like a person, like you, me and others, and demands the production of peptides. These peptides are created more and more, because the cells demand them. When you say you like something, or you don't, it means it is not you that saying, but it is your cells. So, like you and your body is one, you and the universe is one. Because you are dust, compared to the vast universe. This is what i meant. If you need more enlightenment, go to a spiritual forum.

4)You know how Anbe sivam flopped? I was watching this movie and a person sitting next to me said, "Nalla padam sir. Aana odaadhu". There is this inherent habit of Indian people - They talk about something even if they haven't experienced it. So, this creates a network through word of mouth, there by destroying the whole thing.

MY REQUEST : Please don't destroy an artiste, because you want to be a critic. Carnatic music should spread, and engulf the whole world. The more we talk about something, the more it happens.

Mr.Harimau is right. That is his opinion and i am sorry about my post again. But, a person who comes across this post might get a wrong notion about what Mr.Anil and Guru are doing. This will spread like fire, because we people (South Indians), take the authority to make fun or talk about something that we haven't even experienced.

This is a humble request from my side. I am hell bent upon saying this because, this genre of music that they are developing is new and fragile. You can wait till it builds and gets recognized. Then you can criticize, since there is no harm. But, if you do this now, you are murdering it. If we don't understand this simple fact, we are not even human beings.

Om namaha shivaya,

Jimi hendrix.

jimihendrix
Posts: 11
Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 21:05

Post by jimihendrix »

melakartha wrote:in the past i have been critical of some of harimau's style of writing and criticising concerts, but here i am writing smthing in defence of him. As a senior (in terms of age only) member of this forum i appeal to the moderators of this forum to check the entry of elements like 'seven swaram' and 'jimi hendrix' who in all their CAPS seem to shouting at the top of their voices.
it is easy for anyone to guess that these new members to rasikas are elements close to the artists who have been criticised or worse the artists themselves in pseudo names!!. after this shouting session, u will see that they will quietly disappear. i have been seeing this in so many threads now.
At this rate, all artists will want only good things to be written abt them and if not, they will descend on rest of us who dont "get it" like a ton of bricks. Just because an american organisation gave someone standing ovation doesnt mean that it is the best music or that no one shud have a critical opinion of it.
once again, a fervent appeal to mods to check contents posted by first time members before troubling us all with it.

Regards
Ramabadran.
I am in no way related to Mr.Anil, nor do i say that i love his music. I am just saying that criticism has to wait. With all due respect to you, sir, as a senior member you should have seen my point. I am terribly sorry again.

musicfan_4201
Posts: 199
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:34

Post by musicfan_4201 »

jimihendrix
Where were you when AS was getting bashed up (in another thread ofcourse)

melakartha
Posts: 45
Joined: 06 Jun 2008, 20:52

Post by melakartha »

Jimihendrix,

I am slightly at a loss to understand these melodramatic outpourings, Anbe Sivam and peptides and all that. May be my old neurons dont get stimulated as much! who is destroying an artist here? and who is talking of gurucharan here? the post of Harimau was simple--he attended the inaugural concert of B.S.U where Ravikiran and Anil played...he felt that the two didnt gel and wrote badly abt the concert in his usual hyperbolic way. Does that imply that EVERYTHING that anil does or ravikiran does is bad? does that by inference mean the work done by Anil with ALL his collaborators is also bad? And does that by inference also mean that to criticize a concert we have to listen to all the CDs and repertoire of an artist first? that day, that song list or raga choice was bad--period! why are u stretching imagination so much?
The best of artists have the worst of days and may be their choice wasnt great that day or the concert fell flat (which can happen and is no great blasphemy or offence--they are humans after all) ...and for every one critic there may be two appreciators. if an art form is so fragile tht some lame post can destroy it, it is really not worth its existence.
Kindy dont get so hyper emotional about things!!
Last edited by melakartha on 18 Nov 2009, 16:04, edited 1 time in total.

musicfan_4201
Posts: 199
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:34

Post by musicfan_4201 »

jimihendrix wrote:
vkv43034 wrote:Jimihendrix,
I would appreciate if you can elaborate on three of points in your otherwise interesting post:

1) From what I have known & seen on history of Blues & Rock&roll mostly in PBS Programs in USA by experts like Billy Taylor& others Rock & Roll preceded Jimmy Hendrix. It was a LOGICAL development from blues to WOOGIE-BOOGIE to rock & roll where there was a historical attempt to prevent giving etc. credit to black americans like Richard Little etc. Of course the "Real" Jimmi Hendrix was an innovator & great artist on his own but to claim he did as much as you claim is historically NOT accurate I feel ,.Would like to be enlightened further.
2) Can you define what you mean by Truth? If you can come up with a good definition most of the problems may be solved?
3) In the census forms in 50's & 60's if not later in USA I was told Indians are Caucasians & asked to fill the form on that basis. Are there new data& findings that I am not aware of?......By the way I always thought most things about Indians are mixed up like the so called Aryans& dravidians esp in South intermingled to produce the so called South Indian Brahmin- I am one myself- The point is most thinmgs about India& Indians are MIXED UP. Persons like Michael Wood are contributing to makin sense about mostly what Icall mythological accounts about MOST things about India.....VKV
I am terribly sorry if i was too jumped up about the fact that mr.harimau criticized Mr.Anil Srinivasan. Take this as a personal apology, Mr.Harimau.

@VKV : 1)I quoted robert johnson, so that you would relate it to the beginning of everything. I took jimi hendrix as an example, because he was an icon at that time, intimidated as i am with your authority on rocknroll, blues, jazz,bossa nova,classical, etc.
2)I also mentioned, the differences are to love each other and not to throw bricks at each other.
3)Talking about the truth, I was talking about the emotional addiction.
FYI : When we come across events that create emotions, there is a neuron network that identifies this. This sends a signal to the hypothalamus, which produces peptides that come in contact with our cells, and changes them. Every cell is like a person, like you, me and others, and demands the production of peptides. These peptides are created more and more, because the cells demand them. When you say you like something, or you don't, it means it is not you that saying, but it is your cells. So, like you and your body is one, you and the universe is one. Because you are dust, compared to the vast universe. This is what i meant. If you need more enlightenment, go to a spiritual forum.

4)You know how Anbe sivam flopped? I was watching this movie and a person sitting next to me said, "Nalla padam sir. Aana odaadhu". There is this inherent habit of Indian people - They talk about something even if they haven't experienced it. So, this creates a network through word of mouth, there by destroying the whole thing.

MY REQUEST : Please don't destroy an artiste, because you want to be a critic. Carnatic music should spread, and engulf the whole world. The more we talk about something, the more it happens.

Mr.Harimau is right. That is his opinion and i am sorry about my post again. But, a person who comes across this post might get a wrong notion about what Mr.Anil and Guru are doing. This will spread like fire, because we people (South Indians), take the authority to make fun or talk about something that we haven't even experienced.

This is a humble request from my side. I am hell bent upon saying this because, this genre of music that they are developing is new and fragile. You can wait till it builds and gets recognized. Then you can criticize, since there is no harm. But, if you do this now, you are murdering it. If we don't understand this simple fact, we are not even human beings.

Om namaha shivaya,

Jimi hendrix.

UTTER RUBBISH
Anbe Shivam did not flop because of bad mouthing. Kamalahasan being kamalahasan (who makes one movie for the masses which becomes a super dooper success), makes the next one for himself (for self satisfaction), more often than not not for the masses. Anbe Shivam was a great movie (an off beat moviee rather) but the masses did not know to appreciate it.

Success of an artist is purely dependent on his mastery over the art and one harimau's comment is not going to kill the art, for heaven sake.

GROW UP !!!!!!
Last edited by musicfan_4201 on 18 Nov 2009, 16:16, edited 1 time in total.

jimihendrix
Posts: 11
Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 21:05

Post by jimihendrix »

I am not arguing any further. I think i have made my point. We can argue by quoting each and every line that we'd typed. It is just kiddish.

You could've been a lawyer Musicfan, or i dunno, maybe you are one. You argue very well and my compliments to you in that respect. But, argument about Anbe sivam gets us nowhere. Probably you are sitting in some corner of the world having wierd perceptions about artistes. I don't think so. I have seen artistes who have been bashed. They are nowhere now.
I am just suggesting that, maybe you can care for music, rather than being a judge. I am merely asking you to nourish it. I agree my concepts are universal and absurd and do not apply for materialistic minds, filled with vanity. Nevertheless, i beg to differ.
In a very fundamental sense, we are very confused about what we want. Let us evaluate ourselves as Rasikas first. Then, we can think about having opinions.

I only said criticism can wait. If that feels right to you, comply with it. If its otherwise, i have no issues.

Music is pure and is conscious. If you really need enlightenment, celebration and joy, that is what it is for.

@melakarta : Respected sir. I wasn't making all that effort in my previous post to support Anil, or to suggest that forums destroy artistes. I was referring to the fact that, perceptions are contagious.

And, it is not about that one concert. I have been seeing a lot of bashing lately, let alone this forum. It is about people and why they don't accept something new.

What Anil,Ravi,Guru,etc are doing is bringing a lot of interest in Carnatic music. change is a good thing. Thats my whole point.

With due respect to all,

Jimi hendrix.

Om namaha shivaya
Last edited by jimihendrix on 18 Nov 2009, 17:30, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
Posts: 11498
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Post by cmlover »

Congratulations Anil!
Many years of happy marital bliss and many brilliiant progenies!

uday_shankar
Posts: 1475
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Post by uday_shankar »

Anil
Congratulations on many counts. BTW, what are you doing in this thread ? Run and don't look back :).
--------------------------


Here's my wish list for this thread:

1) Harimau's inputs would be more valuable if they were constructive instead of mere dismissive rants. Flowery praise helps nobody and so harimau's posts could be helpful.

2) Jimi Hendrix and others be more concise. Such long winded rants are unreadable.
Last edited by Guest on 18 Nov 2009, 21:13, edited 1 time in total.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10958
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Post by vasanthakokilam »

>instead of mere dismissive rants

Exactly.

musicfan_4201, that is the difference you are seeking. ( Let us not get into analyzing harimau any further ).

cmlover
Posts: 11498
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Post by cmlover »

Here is a question.

Should we have a separate 'restricted' section at the Forum for the 'artistes' ?
Therein they can freely express their opinions and also objectively respond to Rasika's criticisms. That will give them the freedom to speak for themselves and offer explanations without using their disciples to repond to criticisms from other Rasikas. The only restriction will be that they will have to Register with their true identity. They may even promote themselves within reasonable limits.
What do you folks think?

rajeshnat
Posts: 10121
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Post by rajeshnat »

CML
I think you are fighting a very difficult battle which is prevalent everywhere in all forums , kind of no solution there unless you have biometric verification along with the login id ;) .

# When you say 'restricted' for artists it means what, in the sense they only post in that topic , where no one else like rasika community cannot add any posts in that thread or topic.

# I am sure even if you have artists come with true identity they or the sishya parampara or relatives or friends of them can always create more ids and still will post .

# As such few artists like mannarkoil, erode, suryaprakash , kn sashikiran and vidyaarthi (NSG) are only posting with their ids.So other musicians can take a leaf out of them and follow their path. So as such everything is there, if they choose to exercise that option ?

# As such promotions in whatever form should be avoided as there will be a deluge of posts , so far touch wood it is at an acceptable minimum.

# The only best remedy is each of us always should have a habit of clicking the link 'view all posts by user ', you will get a trend and form an opinion about more than what is written by that user ;)

Shalu
Posts: 61
Joined: 24 May 2009, 22:17

Post by Shalu »

Have been following on a lot of cudgels on harimau in the earlier posts. But I must admit that he does have the gumption to call a spade a spade on a few veritable instances! Though the caustic sting can very well be toned down. I did go for a few of the BSU spread and enjoyed Ustad Amjad Ali Khan's the most. Yes, TMK and his wife did steal the show too

cmlover
Posts: 11498
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Post by cmlover »

Rajesh
You are right! Even if we create an outlet there may not be takers!
We will do it only if there is a demand from the artistes...

cacm
Posts: 2212
Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

Dear jimi hendrix:
Thanks for answering my queries. I can relate better to what you wrote. I do not know where you live; If you are in USA you shd see the Twelve part series on Brain & Mind by Charlie Rose which covers the Latest Science known reg brian cell chemistry etc. Interesting claim by the EXPERTS-mostly poineers& nobel laurates- is that the brain-mind connection will be FULLY understood in next 10-20 years!
Reg TRUTH again this isan area I have been SOMEWHAT involved with. The best way I can describe in a forum like this is the broad classification is Objective & Subjective truth & language itself is very complicated! Persons like Chomsky have tried to break it into manageable chunks but ultimately the stuff is too deep to discuss here....
Consequently my conclusion is whats mostly written here is some combo of pshycological + emotional Babble with some knowledge thrown in once in a while.....VKV
Last edited by cacm on 19 Nov 2009, 00:41, edited 1 time in total.

cienu
Posts: 2392
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 11:40

Post by cienu »

cmlover wrote: Should we have a separate 'restricted' section at the Forum for the 'artistes' ?
My personal view is that rasikas forum should be for Rasikas only.
Artists are also rasikas :)
Last edited by cienu on 19 Nov 2009, 07:46, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
Posts: 16873
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

deleted.
Last edited by arasi on 19 Nov 2009, 08:54, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
Posts: 16873
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

Cienu,
A valid point. Imagine performers simply being performers and not being rasikAs at all! 'anubhavittup pADuvadu' can mean: relishing the music and singing--even their own singing/playing, but purely in the context of music-- not in the egotistical, 'I create such music' sense!
RasikAs can make this out anyway, if they are astute.

karthikbala
Posts: 221
Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 09:58

Post by karthikbala »

Artistes are better off not reading reviews, let alone participating in these discussions. Artistes should freely and boldly follow their impulses and inclinations. Giving weightage to criticism, praise, or suggestions however well meaning is IMHO undesirable. Our greatest artistes have invariably been trendsetters, not conformists. Off the dais, they can express themselves through their blogs, websites, interviews etc. Participation in unmoderated fora, especially those comprising anonymous posters, is not a good idea.

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