What is the difference btwn current day CM and the same in 5

[T J Venkatraman]

What is Music? I raised this question to culture my music

[VK RAMAN]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music - please read this.

[T J Venkatraman]

okay I put my question this way what is the difference btwn current day carnatic music and the same in 50's or 60's

[Shivadasan]

Dear T J Venkatraman

There is no indication as to your level of present knowledge of and experience in music. I assume that you are experiencing CM as fresh person and so I give below some information based on my knowledge and experience.

It appears that the presently surviving style of CM originated from the musical trinity, Thyagaraja, Dikshithar and Shyama Shastri. One of the main reason for its survival is the existence of disciples who carried the torch forward. Of the many music composers who existed in the bygone era the compositions of only these three have been made available to us with the original music because the religious, rather spiritual content of the songs made the disciples to practice the compositions with fervour and distribute them to their disciples with a passionate zeal. There exist even now several thousands of Tamil poems by saints with the raga indicated but without any notation. So no one knows how they are to be sung. None of their disciples had created a parampara. The spiritual content of the compositions were eagerly adopted by Harikatha experts into their performances to make their presentations more effective. It is likely that in the early days the public could hear the krithis only in the Harikatha sessions. When the of the excellence of the krithis and their popularity reached the ears of the kings and Zamindars the practice of inviting the musicians to the darbars started. Even then only a selected section of the public could hear them. To enable the common man to hear them temples also started arranging such concerts.

Because of the divinity in the compositions they were being rendered with great respect as if they were mantras. It appears that in those days the main was RTP and then some Tamil songs. Musicians were in doubt whether they would be incurring divine displeasure by singing the composition without any spiritual merit. So the krithis must have been sung to bring out the bhava and without any manodharma swara prasthara.

When the concert pattern started in a private sitting before the zamindars and rasikas some liberties must have been taken and neraval and swarams must have been added. When organised public concerts started the concert pattern changed and was sung for the entertainment of the audience. After that the concept of ‘entertainment for the audience’ became established and it has become the main purpose of CM.

In the 50s and 60s Entertainment concept was in its infancy and entertainment values went hand in hand with respect for the composition. Entertainment value increased when the mridangam accompaniment became aggressive. In the following era the aggressiveness increased so much so that musicians had to become laya wizards to be able to entertain. That trend is still continuing.

In the latest development, the bug to do something new has bitten the musicians resulting in introduction new instruments, unusual accompaniments, jugalbandhis, fusion, compositions in Hindustani, Marathi, Bengali and so on.

I hope this information would be useful to you.
Shivadasan

[Purist]

1. The repoitere of artists has expanded substantially with the result a lot
more kritis or songs are in circulation.

2. The music of 50's were more of 'open throat' kind of singing. The shruti(pitch)
levels were far higher to the current. Now the amplifier/speakers does the job
meaning lesser exertion to the artist.

3. The ghana ragas held forte in the past. A Thodi, Kalyani, Kamboji or Shankarabarnam etc
was a sine qua non. Now apoorva (rare) ragas are stealing limelight and to such an extent
that it has become a measure of artists vidwat. Current RTP's are case in point.

4. As an offshoot of 'gurukula' system the music of yesteryears had distinctive stamps of
schools in terms of style and rendering. That has now faded and one can see the migration
to multi styles. this could be even be a ' identity crisis '

5. Lastly ( I know many may not agree with me) 'saukhyam' was predominant in the past
while 'showmanship' is predominant now.

[rshankar]

But why would we want to compare (aren't comparisons odious?)?

The issue has as much to do with the difference between 1) the audiences today and the same in 50s and 60s; 2) the societal mores of today and the same in 50s and 60s; 3) lifestyle today and the same in 50s and 60s; 4) competing interests (both for the performer and the audience) today and the same in 50s and 60s; and so on and so forth as it does between the performers of current day CM and the same in 50s and 60s.

Also, I am curious how the bar was chosen to the 50s and 60s? Why not some other time?

[Svaapana]

But why would we want to compare (aren't comparisons odious?)?

.
Also, I am curious how the bar was chosen to the 50s and 60s? Why not some other time?

Those were the days when music reached the living room of many for the first time, thanks to the great work done by the AIR. Concerts were relayed live by AIR for the entire duration, apart from there own well organised radio week and radio sangeetha sammelanam. I think the golden age of classical music was during the days of Dr B V Keskar as minister for broadcasting and this happened in the 50s and 60s. Coincidentally it was also the "summer of carnatic music" aptly coined by V Sriram. Many modern day musicians are said to follow the style evolved by the musicians of the 50s and 60s, notably, MMI, GNB, SSI, ARI, MSS, MLV, DKP, Brindha, not to mention TNR, DVN, PMI,PSP, Mali, SB et al (each one of them had evolved there own individual style or Bani). Fortunately the music of those stalwarts are available to us, thanks to the tireless uploading of the concerts by several noble persons. One can make his/ her own unbiased assessment on the quality of the music. I suppose that the "bar" was chosen based on listening to these concerts by the younger generation. (needless to say that the older generation will always harp on "andha kAlathile" (In those days)!

[Nick H]

But why would we want to compare (aren't comparisons odious?)?

Well, no... they are not! I have to admit that I approached this thread with some trepidation and fear that it might attract the chest-beating past-was-wonderful-today-is-rubbish crowd, which would have been odious, but, on the contrary, there are some very interesting and informative points made.

[cmlover]

A quick comment on the wakes of Shivadasan.
Most of the oldtimers (30s, 40s,50s) were male chauvinists with strong prejudices against women and non-brahmins. The present generation has catholic tastes and are quite broad-minded!

[ganesh_mourthy]

mr.purist. you complain of non saukyam now.
you mean to say the doyens like ARIYAKUDI, TIGERS AND CHEMBAI ALL SANG WITH GREAT SOWKYAM.
OOPS I ADMIT RATHER THAN COMPALINING ...SOME PROBLEM WITH MY EARS.

I AM GREATLY HAPPY THAT THESE DAYS THERE IS A MUCH BETTER SHRUDHI ADHERENCE. UNTIL THERE IS A NOTE PERFECTION MY EARS FAIL TO UNDERSTAND IT AS A MUSIC, WHATEVER BE THE AMOUNT OF INTELLIGENCE.

[srikant1987]

1. The repoitere of artists has expanded substantially with the result a lot
more kritis or songs are in circulation.

3. The ghana rags held forte in the past. A Thodi, Kalyani, Kamboji or Shankarabarnam etc
was a sine qua non. Now apoorva (rare) ragas are stealing limelight and to such an extent
that it has become a measure of artists vidwat. Current RTP's are case in point.

4. As an offshoot of 'gurukula' system the music of yesteryears had distinctive stamps of
schools in terms of style and rendering. That has now faded and one can see the migration
to multi styles. this could be even be a ' identity crisis '

Here, #1 has to do with the frequency of concerts. With more than 15-20 concerts in any given month (and perhaps 1500 or 2000 in December), repitition of songs is really frowned upon. Perhaps this required expansion in repertoire is done through non-gurukula learning, hence #4.

With shorter concerts, there are many other ragas that offer the scope to be chosen as the main piece: a 20-45 min main item is good enough. So ragas with relatively limited scope can be comfortably taken up. Even nIlAmbari, asAvEri etc., will do very comfortably.

5. Lastly ( I know many may not agree with me) 'saukhyam' was predominant in the past
while 'showmanship' is predominant now.

I disagree. Today we probably have a much larger variety in the amount of saukhyam and the amount of showmanship than in the past. Also, these two are not mutually exclusive things (I'm just stressing the point: you haven't said they are mutually exclusive either).

[vasanthakokilam]

Sowkyam vs Showmanship - Internal satisfaction vs external entertainment . Is that what we are talking about?

[musicfan_4201]

Music of 50s and 60s - It is like the Illayaraja's music. Evergreen
Current - AR Rahman (Catchy and addictive for sometime, but fades away)

[ganesh_mourthy]

please dont compare ilayarajah's music to tose days carnatic music. they are of different genres. ilayarajah music serene melody. i wonder where was melody in those days carnatic. mostly KAATTU KATHAL sorry to say.

[vasanthakokilam]

g_m, are you serious? There may have been such things but would you classify MSS-MLV-DKP like that?

[Purist]

Sowkyam vs Showmanship - Internal satisfaction vs external entertainment . Is that what we are talking about?

Yes to some extent.

[Purist]

mr.purist. you complain of non saukyam now.
you mean to say the doyens like ARIYAKUDI, TIGERS AND CHEMBAI ALL SANG WITH GREAT SOWKYAM.
OOPS I ADMIT RATHER THAN COMPALINING ...SOME PROBLEM WITH MY EARS.

I AM GREATLY HAPPY THAT THESE DAYS THERE IS A MUCH BETTER SHRUDHI ADHERENCE. UNTIL THERE IS A NOTE PERFECTION MY EARS FAIL TO UNDERSTAND IT AS A MUSIC, WHATEVER BE THE AMOUNT OF INTELLIGENCE.

I meant Sowkhyam for the SOUL not for the EARS.

I would recomend you to listen some great meditative renderings of MMI, alapanas of
Madurai Somu, TKR ,Alathur , Nerevals of Musiri ,KVN, swaras of SSI, Alathur (list not exhaustive
but illustrative) and then draw a conclusion

[musicfan_4201]

g_m
I suggest you first listen to lot of music before making generic sweeping comments. I am afraid what you kaatu kattal is not true at all. The quality of music was so refined and good. the current genration artists try to emulate the yesteryear artists to a great extent. For example Sanjay, he raves the music of GNB and S Kalyanaraman, one can see his passion for SKR's music in particular (listen to his talk on SKR in the DVD tilted Sunaada Vinodhan. DKJ/DKP/MSS/MLV etc their music was top class and full of melody. Listen to some of DKJ's MD kritis like hiranmayim, Sri renuka devi, Chintayamam etc. It is absolultely soul stirring experience and the sowkyam that Purist refers to, atleast I do not get in the renditions of the current genration artist (I am biased - May be)

[ganesh_mourthy]

vasanthakokilam,

definitely not MS.. there were not too many intricate kanakku. unwanted shakes. her music stood out with purity in sound. the few secs of the prelude of her bhavayami makes my life still. she was called SHUD SWARA LAKSHMI by bade ghulam ali khan. amjad ali khan said that he was transfixed by her voice. our lata is one her greatest fans. but ms and mlv and dk pattammal were just 3 of the hundreds.

another voice i admire is that of radha jayalkshmi. so 4. but there is no more than 7 or 8 numbers.. mmm. balamurali 5. voleti 6...........

[ganesh_mourthy]

music fan again u numbered 5

[musicfan_4201]

g-m
Is this turning out to be an exercise to name the number of musicians

[mohan]

The easy access to recordings has been the greatest change since the 1950s. The rise of the tape recorder, CD player and now digital recordings has led to:

1. ability to access a wide range of compositions and hence expand one's repertoire.
2. access to listen to rare ragas
3. dilution of bani since people can listen to more styles, artistes

[nexusone]

T J Venkatraman, you want to know about music? What are you doing in this forum?

[Shivadasan]

The musicians who were famous in the 50s were born and brought up in an era where there was no mike and no speakers. If any one did not sing full throated it would have been audible only to a few people sitting around him. Loud voice was an essential feature in those days.

When a high class violin is played it sounds sweeter from a distance and not from close quarters. The harshness is more visible at close quarters. This is because the best violins of those days were constructed to enable it to ‘throw’ the sound so that it may reach the last rows in the mikeless concert halls. As the vibrations travelled further and further they shed a number of frequencies and only a few survived at the last audible distance. Many people have wondered why the nadaswaram heard from a distance sounded sweeter. Same thing applies to great paintings because they need to be looked at from a distance to get the correct aesthetics.

When these stalwarts gave mikeless concerts their voices must have sounded sweet from a distance (due to the scientific principle of shedding frequencies) to most of the audience and the listeners cannot be blamed for their praise of the artist. The voice of Chembai was called as "venkalam"

[nexusone]

what if biology and life "evolves" to listen to what is perceived as noise today? where the ears can appreciate notes being on a linear, exponential, logarthmic whatever scale. Who defines true music. CM is also a food to our spiritual hunger? What else do you serve in your restaurant? Idli, vadai?

[Nick H]

Ahh well... It was an interesting comparison, which has now gone the way of wild generalisations, suppositions and prejudices.

Shivadasan, a nadaswaram is designed (or evolved, more likely) for large spaces and the open air; a violin is not. I doubt what you say about violin design, but I do not have any more data to back up my doubts than you do for your assertions. A good voice is a good voice; if you have to hear it from yards away, is it still a good voice? I don't think so. As to your comments about the personal attributes and skills of musicians, they are unbelievable generalisations. You may be able to pick out individuals and justly apply one or more of your criticisms to them; to apply them to a whole generation and more is, frankly, laughable.

[ganesh_mourthy]

shivadasan let us come to terms . we are travelling in different directions. you compared the faculties and amenities those days and present. i mean to say that these days they are more adaptive and the technolgy has defintely improved. the result is a clearer music. i am not talking about the ability of those day smusicians. given the same amenities they could have done it good too . but how catholic were they...???? but there were great musicians too, in spite of the poor conditions for learning unlike in these days. msg, balachender, lalgudi, balmurali, mc....all trend setters . but in all these trend setters there was a striving for clarity and perfection at a time when there is no chance that a tambura with one kattai in kerala would have been the same with that of the one in andhra. but these people were able to experiment out of the box. they were not conformists.

[shaks]

okay I put my question this way what is the difference btwn current day carnatic music and the same in 50's or 60's

Simple !

Today's musicians have ego filled in them. Singing in falsetto with their mouth kissing the mike. More than music, they have their own fan following. They have tampuras playing behind yet, shruthi comes from the hidden shruthi box or ipod recorder or whatever. They sing kritis like abhangs and bhajans and assume that the yesteryear musicians have no knowledge at all.

[vasanthakokilam]

Nick: Gross Generalization, as reflected in the title itself, is the name of the game for this thread. You can not escape it

[VK RAMAN]

Comparison of one generation to the other is like comparing stone age to space age. It will not make sense to millenium generation or coal fired engine generation.

[Nick H]

Nick: Gross Generalization, as reflected in the title itself, is the name of the game for this thread. You can not escape it

OK, yes... I guess so, but like I said a few posts ago, it can be the whole Golden-Age-Is-Over-For-Ever thing, or it can be something more useful and interesting.


.

[srikant1987]

Nick: Gross Generalization, as reflected in the title itself, is the name of the game for this thread. You can not escape it

Not really. CM of 50s and 60s had many different things, and current-day CM consists of several other, some same and some different things. We're not saying that everyone in 50s and 60s sang the same kind of CM, or that everyone today sings the same kind of CM. (Not necessarily singing, of course!)

[vasanthakokilam]

Nick, Srikant: I agree. My point, a bit of a wisecrack, is to look at the title of the thread. The question itself is at a general level.

On to the topic, I thought Shivadasan provided his list of agents/catalysts to explain how people perceive music of these two periods. I agree that there is a value judgment in his posts but I do not know how you can avoid that.

Srikant, more to your point, true things are never homogenous but that does not prevent us from generalizations and abstractions. History is full of generalizations and glossing over details ( and is usually written by survivors/victors ) and so if one is an astute student of history, one should keep in mind that survivor bias.

[Nick H]

Memories can be very selective too.

One could look back at a golden age of western pop, waxing lyrical about the Beatles, for instance, whilst entirely forgetting that the majority of it was garbage. (of course, the viewpoint could be reversed to suit!)

I don't know (I wasn't there, and many of the rasikas.org contributors were) but I find it hard to believe that, to produce a handful of great, enduring names, there was not a mass of mediocre, or merely good, music also in those days.

[thenpaanan]

Nick: Gross Generalization, as reflected in the title itself, is the name of the game for this thread. You can not escape it

OK, yes... I guess so, but like I said a few posts ago, it can be the whole Golden-Age-Is-Over-For-Ever thing, or it can be something more useful and interesting.


.

Nick,

Quite. We do have a bit much of the "golden age cannot be brought back" syndrome in CM stretching back more than a hundred years. Yet, as you imply, honest attempts at cross-era comparisons may suss out trends and perhaps even nuggets of wisdom.

There is a CD I stumbled upon recently that is (roughly) titled "Indian Classical Music of the early twentieth century" and it contains recordings from the 1910s, 1920s and 1930s of both HM and CM. Truly a marvelous find, especially because the artist names in there are completely unknown to me and it gives us a hint of how the musics sounded back then. However that is not the point I want to make here. In the liner notes to the CD is a sentence -- "it is a measure of the vitality of the music that these musicians who were considered the top performers in their time would be be considered only average by contemporary standards." If I recall correctly, the CD was released recently. Furthermore, this comment was limited to the HM portion of the album, because the author said "making recorded music was still considered beneath a respectable CM musician in those times, so the sample here may not represent the best CM of that time."

I was hoping that some such flash of insight (either positive or negative) might come out of this thread. Perhaps not this direct but something like "CM has trended towards less virtuoso music since the 50s" or "the use of brigas has increased" or even "the quality of shruti adherence has gone down" would be worthwhile if the analysis is honest. Given our propensity to glorify the past, I would even hope that we can agree that we actually sing/play better in some narrow way today than in the '50s. But these have been relatively few in this thread. Not holding breath.

For sure, one aspect of CM has changed since the 50s/60s and that is the amount of money that musicians can make from this livelihood. At least the more successful musicians today can make much more money comparatively than the top musicians of that era, not to speak of middle and lower tier musicians (as measured by the arbitrary scale of the Chennai music season slots). Surely that has affected the quality of music overall. But in what way? Some good, I hope.

Your other point is also well-taken. When we compare eras, we should make it clear that we are comparing or attempting to compare the best of the two eras. Anything else would be even more tenuous.

-Then Paanan

[Shivadasan]

I intended to point out that there was no point in comparing the musicians and we should concentrate on comparing the music instead. Only then we would be able to come to some conclusion about the situation. Perhaps I failed in mentioning it clearly.


I heard Musiri only once and could not place him on a high pedestal at that time.
Recently I heard his recording, obviously done much past his prime, of ‘Kanaka shaila’ in Punnagavarali. Even though his voice was not very melodious it had sowkhaym and in the slow tempo (not to be seen nowadays) I thought he was able to project bhava of the composition in an excellent manner. Surprisingly the accompanists were very subdued.
http://sangeethamshare.org/signin.php?/haridivakar/


As it was pointed out in one of the posts there were no dearth of musicians who were considered mediocre because they could not stand upto the standards set by the stalwarts. I am unable to recollect many names, but artist like T.K.Rangachari, Srirangam Kannan, Mayavaram Rajam, (Madurai ?) Srirangam Iyengar and other whose music was excellent but without box office. It would be interesting if their music is compared with the present top musicians.

[rajaglan]

Seeing the last one month of threads here, seeing the comparisions by senior rasikas in this thread,
I almost thought someone is going to upload an MP3 sung by purandara dasar or Muthusamy dikshitar and
ask for an equivalent of Sanjay or TMK in terms of melody ? ...Joking.

I think it will take many many years for a vidwan to understand the crowd and understand the
limitations of his voice & capacity and trends and create a style of his own which will be
remembered by rasikas.

Unlike past , the crowd is not homogenous. And the information spreads fast. And there are
compulsions from peer attracting huge crowds ,And economic considerations. So let us not
degrade their skills,hardwork, accomplishments. It is their performances and experiemnts
that we need to criticise.

I never question the vidwat of current day vidwans. They are all great and learn and teach
continuously. What we know of MMI & SSI is their PEAK image. So it is not right to compare
TMK and SSI as TMK is an younger artist and yet to evolve himself.

[bhavarasa]

Today's "egoistic, brash, young and restless" will be tomorrow's "golden age". The cycle is endless.

When I was young (aaah... seems such a long time ago) and was listening my dad's recordings of MKT Bhagavathar and SG Kittappa, he used to complain about the "crap" being belted out by MSV, SPB & Illayaraja.

Now I do the same to my kids when they listen to whomever they listen to these days (I can't recall a single name or song for that matter - don't know if it's bad memory on my part OR the forgettable singers/songs of today).

Anytime I find myself starting a sentence with "antha kAlatthula" (Back in those days...), I check myself and just say nothing. To each his/her own, I think.

I may prefer MMI, SSI & KVN over TMK and Sanjay; DKP, MSS over Nithyasree, Sudha and Jayshri but I cannot empirically prove that one is better than the other, since the word "better" is highly subjective.

[lahari]

Pakka vadhyams today have really become pakkaa vadhyams

When a friend of mine sang a concert and called the violinist before the concert to tell her the shruthi and the songs, she wouldn't even pick it up nor return the repeated calls and sms leaving my friend feeling hanging. Then she turned up five minutes before the start of the concert making my friend feel insecure, started acting haughty, "tambura sruti serallaiye......" and managed to make mistakes in her manodharmam esp swaram, couldn't play a decent shanmukhapriya or kambhoji. She finally left feeling thoroughly humbled.

[Nick H]

OK... so that's one incident of bad behaviour. How many faultless accompaniments have you seen? Do you think bad behaviour was invented only within the past decades?

[lahari]

Hi nickar (like we say in tamil, avar, ivar, nickar, not to be construed otherwise;-)

Are you a pakka vadhyam guy? Why are you pouncing with your irrelevant questions? This is a mere discussion, lemme reiterate.

<deleted by mod. Lahari, watch out what you write>

[VK RAMAN]

Inappropriate questions to Nick. He is a long time resident of Chennai and might have attended more CM concerts than you. He is a mridangam artist too. Neengal lahariyil aaNa

[Nick H]

Thank you, VKR... but I do not pretend to be an artist. Well, ok, I did used to "pretend " sometimes and, even though I have a fraction of the knowledge of many members here, having been on stage a few times does broaden one's horizons. Certainly I've attended more than a few concerts.

My posts are often irrelevant, but they are also sometimes quite pertinent. At least, I think so... others may not share that opinion

[bhavarasa]

Pakka vadhyams today have really become pakkaa vadhyams

When a friend of mine sang a concert and called the violinist before the concert to tell her the shruthi and the songs, she wouldn't even pick it up nor return the repeated calls and sms leaving my friend feeling hanging. Then she turned up five minutes before the start of the concert making my friend feel insecure, started acting haughty, "tambura sruti serallaiye......" and managed to make mistakes in her manodharmam esp swaram, couldn't play a decent shanmukhapriya or kambhoji. She finally left feeling thoroughly humbled.

So you are basing your conclusions on just one violinist? The sample size of your dataset is 1?

[rajesh_rs]

Posters in this thread may not have realized the extent to which technology has refined the way we listen to music these days. Please factor in our modern 24-bit and 32-bit sound processors used in ordinary equipment and the ubiquitous high quality microphones and speakers before bashing the older generation of singers. They did have technology constraints that modern day musicians don't have.

We have to consider how technology in general has changed things over the decades. When Ariyakudi sang, he sang songs he learnt from his teacher and refined using his bhavam and provided his unique perspective to the music. When people recorded him for posterity (and created the CDs and tapes you listened to him on) they recorded one performance of his. These days, recording companies have sound engineers and mixers and can set the balance between instruments and vocals, can erase, merge and clip recordings. These facilities didn't exist in the decades past. When DKP recorded her immortal Shivakama Sundari in Mukhari she was less equipped in terms of sound engineers and mixers and high quality equipment. Compare this to the digital sound and large screen TVs of today with thousands of artists who compete to be the best. There is a reason they call this the music industry.

In the olden days, we had artists. Now we have musical exponents and performers who are also artists in their own right. Granted, the latter may be more refined in terms of the aesthetic quality of music we listen to and the adherence to raga and tala may be better and so need to be listened to. My request is: let's not forget where their music comes from. It was in some part because of our striving forefathers that we are where we are today.

[rajesh_rs]

OK... so that's one incident of bad behaviour. How many faultless accompaniments have you seen? Do you think bad behaviour was invented only within the past decades?

A palpable hit. Nice question in the end there. Something out of Douglas Adams.

[lahari]

Display of the Great Indian mentality show here.......Somebody reacts boldly and others take glee in pouncing upon her.

You can state only one or two examples not a hundred. The forum will not be enough.

Btw, the post was an expression of a feeling of regret, Oh, bhavarasa, not to be measured in terms of sample sizes.

The 'mridhangam vidwan' in Nickar must have sprung up and pounced. And nobody takes note of that pouncing.

[srikant1987]

lahari,

You are making two very vast generalisations based on one incident. I understand (and I am sure, so does Nick -- and it's very suggestive when you call him something else, with an "honouring" suffix you don't append to bhavarasa's ID), that you and your friend are very upset at her accompanist's behaviour.

In case you didn't know, it's usually said the other way round: there was less pre-concert pro-concert interaction between the main artist and accompanists in the past than there is these days. So you are wrong on more or less all counts.

Afaik Nick isn't a concert-giving mridangam vidwan, you appear jump into conclusions too early: I've seen you do that twice already.

[Nick H]

Lahari, You have made an argument that was not relevant to the thread, and that has been pointed out to you, but it seems that, for you, a hundred pointers may not be enough . There are threads concerning bad behaviour off-stage, on-stage, in-front-of-stage where it would not be out of place. One wonders, indeed, how such a violinist gets any bookings, I am sure your friend avoided them in the future.

Your regret is understandable: apart from a few Big-Egos, most would regard such behaviour as being disrespectful to the music, let alone to the individual. But bad apples are not unique to any generation; surely they have always been there, and always will be, despite the enormous amount of competition in all of the performing arts.

Blunt speaking has its place in a forum just as in person-to-person conversation: there was no intention to offend. Another time it will be me on the receiving end...

[bhavarasa]

Display of the Great Indian mentality show here.......Somebody reacts boldly and others take glee in pouncing upon her.

You can state only one or two examples not a hundred. The forum will not be enough.

Btw, the post was an expression of a feeling of regret, Oh, bhavarasa, not to be measured in terms of sample sizes.

The 'mridhangam vidwan' in Nickar must have sprung up and pounced. And nobody takes note of that pouncing.

For every example you quote to highlight an accompanist's arrogance, I can quote 10 to counter otherwise.

I will say this: Humility and modesty are not be the first words to come to mind when one thinks of the current generation of CMs.

But that is a general statement on them all (I'm sure there are exceptions - in fact I know there are). It is not just the accompanists. In fact, I will venture to say (without empirical evidence) that the vocalists are a more egoistic bunch than any other class of CMs. Worse than them are their managers/goojAs (if you know Tamil).

To single out accompanists and call them arrogant is unfair, IMHO.