Ar / Av of Mishra Piloo ?

[Sundar Krishnan]

1) Could someone pl let me know the Ar / Av of Mishra Piloo Ragam, janya of 22 - KP. Thanks -1.
http://www.karnatik.com/ragasm.shtml#mishra%20pilU says : "it varies !"
The same comment in : http://www.karnatik.com/c1324.shtml too.

2) Other than C2 – kaNkaNa karadalli in Mishra Piloo, could someone pl let me know other CM songs based on this Ragam.
Thanks -2.

...

[keerthi]

bhajarE yadunathaM is commonly sung in pIlU.

[cmlover]

jAnakI ramaNa dasharata nandana... is also sung in peelU...

[Sundar Krishnan]

Thanks for yr replies.

Q3 : So, Piloo => Mishra Piloo ?

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cmlover,

http://www.karnatik.com/c1127.shtml :
jAnakI ramaNa dasharatha nandana sarvarIsha vadana harE rAma
states Kapi Ragam.

So, does it imply that this song can be sung in both Kapi as well as Piloo (Mishra Piloo) Ragams ?

*********************

Keerthi,

http://www.karnatik.com/c2966.shtml :
bhajarE yadunAtham mAnasa bhajarE yadunAtham
gives Ar / Av of Piloo as :
22 kharaharapriyaa janya
Aa: N2 S G3 M1 P N2 D2 P S
Av: S N2 D2 P D2 P M1 G2 R2 S N2 S

However, since the foll 2 links state "it varies !"
http://www.karnatik.com/ragasm.shtml#mishra%20pilU
http://www.karnatik.com/c1324.shtml

I am curious to know the other versions of Ar / Av of Piloo (Mishra Piloo).
Thanks.

...

[keerthi]

Why should a tentative murchana given by some anonymous source matter?

it won't change the way in which one sings the songs.. Ar-av are irrelevant for raga-swarupa.

[gobilalitha]

If a bhagavathar misses his way during singing a raaga for example piloo, he can porudly say it is misrapiloo . In olden days before the advent of pills, tablets etc. a docior(a quack) will have mixtures of the same medicine in different colors. If a patient complains of severe head ache and fever, he will ask his assistant to give red colour, for stomach pain ,blue, for dysentry yellow and so on.. The patient irrespective of the medicine will be normal within 3 days in the normal course. gobilalitha .

[cmlover]

Though officially JAnakI ramaNa is listed as Kapi, conventional bhajana folks sing it in pIlU...

[Sundar Krishnan]

In all these so called answers above so far, not one has answered to the point : ie, the authentic Ar / Av of Mishra Piloo, and the variants if any.

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Keerti,

Forget what you call "some Anonymous Source."

If you know the authentic base version of the Ar / Av of Mishra Piloo, and / or it's variants, we would all be glad to have it.

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gobilatha says : "If a singer misses his way ... in a Raga ...".
Missing one's way wrt what - is the question.

And that ref way : is it not the guiding Ar / Av base of the Ragam ??

...

[keerthi]

And that ref way : is it not the guiding Ar / Av base of the Ragam ??

You are sadly mistaken if you think there is anything that you can learn about a raga from the ar/ av...

Any of the time-honoured rAga-s will endorse this point.

RAga-s like natakuranji and AtAna have dozens of sancaram-s that simply can't be accomodated into an ar/ av..

Learn a song in the raga, identify the swara patterns and that gives you everything you need to sing the song, do an Alap for it, sing a neraval or to sing swarakalpana..

Ar/av borders on being useless.

[Lakshman]

The very fact that the raga is prefixed 'mishra' indicates that the it uses foreign notes. These foreign notes can also vary depending upon the singer. Thus one cannot define the arohana/avarohana of any mishra raga with mere notes.

[Sundar Krishnan]

Shri Lakshman, [9th May, 2010]

Thanks for explaining one meaning of Mishra ie, to add (mix) foreign notes. I tend to agree that in general, this is probably the most likely meaning behind the prefix "mishra" in so many ragams.

However, Mishra has other meanings too ; in Mishra Chapu Taalam, it means a count of 7 (beats).

So, I am curious and I wonder if "Mishra" in Mishra Piloo may have something more than just "foreign" notes too ??

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Keerthi,

I agree that Sancharams and Swara Patterns go beyond Ar / Av ; but for me, Ar / Av is an important starting base.
[http://www.carnaticcorner.com/articles/22_srutis.htm also discusses about oscillations and shakes (kampita & gamaka) and spurita or pratyahata in CM.]

Just as an example, how other experts view the Ar / Av seriously, pl refer to :
In http://indiankeyboards.11.forumer.com/v ... .php?t=725, pnamblat discusses lots of CM, HM and WCM notes of so many Ragams.
At one place, he even mentions : "... (Wrt ShivaRanjini) You will see that just playing the notes continuously up/down ( I mean without the ragas' microtones/gamakas) itself, you will get the feel ..."

In line with what Shri Lakshman said that Mishra means modifying the Base Notes with some changes, pnamblat says :
"RD Burman took this raga and added note E / G3 to use interchangeably with D# / G2 [MISHRA ! ?] giving it a new feel in the song “Mere Nain Sawan Badon” as result using Cm and Cmajor chords interchangeably and the song is still a favorite to all of us, I understand this raga is called Mishra Sivaranjani - Baharon Phool Barsao (Suraj)."

When a song is melodiously sung / played, and is also claimed by musician-experts to have been sung / played technically correctly, they do have some ref.

**********

Let us not argue any further on the importance of Ar / Av in THIS thread.
This thread was initiated mainly to get the Ar / Av of Mishra Piloo.

If you wish to start a discussion on the importance of Ar / Av, my suggestion is that you can start a new thread, where other more knowledgeable persons may participate.

...

[arasi]

Wait a second!
Is Keerthi a decrier of Ar/av? I don't think so. If you are asked whether you are obsessed with AR/av, would that not be a rude statement?
Keerthi is not making a careless statement here. Many of us on the forum know that he writes responsibly, drawing from his knowledge and experience of CM among other things.
We learn from each other here. There is a friendly exchange of information and of knowledge about music among us. We come in a variety of levels when it comes to CM. Though I am a learner here, I can add that Ar/ av don't help me either in understanding a rAgam!
Nothing personal, but it is better to ask folks nicely, thank them once in a while for their help and to avoid multiple and bold fonts. I say this after seeing your other posts as well.
These are polite suggestions, that's all!

[mohan]

Let me second arasi and vasantakokilam's (in the other thread) views. I for one won't be bothering to provide SK with a response in the future.

[sramaswamy]

Whew... ! Even the serene queen ruffled! I cannot believe it.

Now, I am reminded of this .... Hey Just a joke, Do not take it seriously!
------------------------------
A man in a hot air balloon realised he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted a man down below. He descended a bit more and shouted:

"Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man below replied, "You are in a hot air balloon hovering approx 30 feet above the ground. You are between 40 and 41 degrees north latitude and between 59 and 60 degrees longitude."

"You must be in Production" said the balloonist.

"I am" replied the man, "how did you know?"

"Well" answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help far"

The man below responded, "You must be a Manager"

"I am" replied the balloonist "but how did you know?"

"Well" said the man "you don't know where you are or where you are going. You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. You are in exactly the same position now that you were in before we met, but now, somehow, it's my fault."

[arasi]

Serene, eh? Wish she were that way twenty four hours of the day

[cmlover]

Royal ire
is one to admire
because it is rare
no need to fear
but we should care