Prince Rama Varma at Shruti Laya, May 22 2010

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 25 May 2010, 16:08

A great concert with a very appreciative audience.

01. Gajavadana Beduve - Gambheera Nata - Purandaradasa
02. Abba raamabhakti enthO goppara - Panthuvarali - Thyagaraja (sub Main)
03. Annapurne Visaalakshi - Sama - Muthuswamy Dikshitar
04. Nenarunchinaanu annitiki - Malavi - Thyagaraja
05. Omkaraakaarini - Lavangi - Balamuralikrishna (Main)
06. Sreerama namam maruvam - Folk - Ramadasu
07. Aliveni enduchaivom - Kurinji - Swathi Tirunal
08. Balaa tripurasundari kaikonu - Prayaga Ranga Dasa
09. Saagara Sayana - Bageshri - M.D.Ramanathan
10. Sarvam Brahmamayam - Janjuti - Sadasiva Brahmendral
11. Tillana - Kadanakuthoohalam - Balamuralikrishna

Yes, the main piece was Balamurali's composition. I'd used my organizer's prerogative to request him to sing some Balamurali composition

The Tillana was a request from the audience.

- Sreenadh

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 25 May 2010, 17:01

Is this in Chennai? Has he come back from the US tour?

BMK's thillana is of course a masterpiece.

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 25 May 2010, 17:14

Sorry, I should have said Shruti Laya in New York (shrutilaya.org)

- Sreenadh

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 25 May 2010, 17:31

Just curious, how come Ramavarma does not sing Thamizh kritis in these recent concerts? Did he not learn any of Papanasam Sivan, GKB, Thamizh Trinity, Koteeswara Iyer, Kavikunjara Bharathi, Neelakanta Sivan, SuddhAnanda Bharathi and many others? To be a complete musician one has to have a well-rounded repertoire.
He used to sing Subramanya Bharathi's songs in his Youtube webcasts. That is also lacking now.

krishnathreya · Post by **krishnathreya** » 25 May 2010, 19:40

mahakavi- in his augusta concert, that has been posted in sangeethapriya, he has sung Papanasam Sivan's Kaa Vaa Vaa as main. Several concerts have not been reviewed here but from other forums I am aware that he has sung Tamil compositions as well, kavalai pada vendam

Sreenadh- thanks for sharing the list. The 2nd should be Appa! Ramabhakti.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 May 2010, 19:46

Our Prince believes that the best of CM are only in Telugu. Of course he is not a language fanatic but tries to give us the best of CM! He does sing some malayalam of Swati which is his heritage and sme Purandara too! He sings his Guru BMK's compositions with enthusiasm. He is entitled to his views, but he never compromises on the quality of CM that he sings ... or plays on the veena .. which is just divine.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 May 2010, 02:58

One list does not a repertoire make.
Without knowing about what all he sang in other places, how can we come to the conclusion that he does not sing in tamizh at all?
Mohan brought up something similar to this. He said there were complaints that Sanjay did not sing one each of trinity krutis but went for other composers (impressive ones, by the way) in his Music Academy concert. Such utterings are the result of a mindset in some rasikAs. Artistes do perform in more than a dozen venues, each day varying their songs (not all, of course!), yet, all that counts to them seems to be that one Academy concert! The same Sanjay has sung one each of the trinity, or even more in several other venues. If those concerts were better than the Academy one, it was not because he sang trinity songs there but because of his perfomance on those days!
Rama Varma I'm sure is varying his list and is including tamizh songs too. Anyway, if kannada vidvAns sing more kannaDa krutis in a concert, tamizh more of tamizh (how I wish!) andhrAs TyAgarAja (that's easy!), I would expect Ramavarma to sing more of SwAti songs, sanskrit krutis too, and songs in malayAlam. Of course, being BMK's disciple, he sings a lot of of telugu songs. Okay, in a traditional sense too.
Yes, CML. I am very partial to his vINA playing too.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 May 2010, 06:40

>>Without knowing about what all he sang in other places, how can we come to the conclusion that he does not sing in tamizh at all?<<

Well, I guess, you can. In all the years I have lived in this country Nielson rating folks never contacted me once nor the NBC/Wall Street Journal to get my opinion before they publish what people think about certain TV shows or political/economic issues. But they still issue reports--right? Same thing here too.

We have concert lists of Ramavarma in these pages from 5 cities so far. By perusing those, here is the analysis.
May 1: Austin---No Thamizh kriti
May 2. Augusta-- No list is available (but I think it was all BMK stuff). Somewhere somebody mentioned that he sang kA vA vA in Augusta.
May 8. Richmond--No Thamizh
May 15. Tampa--One mini-Thamizh by MDR (hariyum haranum)
May 22. Shruti laya New York. No Thamizh.

So judge it yourself.
I just made an observation. Personally I do not care either way. My point was one has to have an inclusive repertoire. That is all.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 May 2010, 06:55

I supported Subramanian being privy to some inside info...

I have seen folks fuming if there was no Trinity sung, but then not including a Tamil kriti to a collective including Tamil audience is indeed an insult, especially if the artiste hails from TN. If that attitude continues then paraphrasing Bharathy differently we can say " CM ini mella SAkuM " (in TN)

But then the Prince does not hail from TN and his reputed ancestor never composed in Tamil

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 May 2010, 07:12

>>But then the Prince does not hail from TN and his reputed ancestor never composed in Tamil <<

Is that an excuse?
Priya Sisters (from AP), NedunUri (from AP) and others from elsewhere sing Thamizh kritis (not just tukkaDAs)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 May 2010, 08:22

Even seasoned andhra singers over the years have been happy with singing two or three stock tamizh songs in their TN concerts--songs with lots of sanskritized words too? Malladi Brothers are singing more of late, I'm glad to observe (based on my reading the lists and listening to them, MK).The Rudrapatnam school has a few tamizh songs that they sing in tamizh nADu. To sing in AP is a cinch for all, thanks to T! Then there are those who speak tamizh, live in TN but barely include tamizh krutis in their concerts in Chennai or elsewhere ;(
What about malayalam? There is a great number of CM rasikAs in kerala. I would be surprised if I hear that a non-malayalam speaking vidvAn sang in malayalam there. Agreed, TMK did, in his Margazhi M Utsavam concert

Short of breaking out into a manipravalam song, how much of singing in the local language is done by non-keralite performers?
Coming back to tamizh songs, I also want to say that things are slowly changing. I am listening to more tamizh songs now and yes, bArati songs too.
I am surprised to see many requests for contemporary tamizh songs in our own Sahitya Section these days. It so happens that several of them are requests for what Sanjay has been singing in recent years. I find that other performers sing more tamizh songs too.
Not only that, you may hear them on youtube by our vocalists (mainly from MMUtsavam). Sanjay has put up other tamizh songs and viruttams in his blog now--from his London concert and several others. Nice of him to share his music with rasikas. My guess is that he realizes that his livelihood is not going to be affected by sharing a bit of his music with others. Is it some kind of self-promotion, someone asked. CM singers like Sanjay, TMK and Vijay Siva don't 'need' any self-promotion. They have reached the point of recognition where such a thing is unnecessary. All that they have to do is keep the quality of their singing intact, enjoy singing, teach what they know to talented students AND sing a lot of tamizh songs. Though I consider myself a citizen of the world, I'm first and foremost, a tamizhmagaL, after all!

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 26 May 2010, 09:52

There are also artists who give concerts exclusively of Tamil songs. It will make up for Prince. Even otherwise pls do not grieve over such matters

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 26 May 2010, 10:17

kssr wrote:There are also artists who give concerts exclusively of Tamil songs. It will make up for Prince. Even otherwise pls do not grieve over such matters

I agree

When I attend a Rama Varma concert, I attend fully aware that the concert will revolve around Swathi , BMK, MDR plus one of the trinity's composition, one of Purandaradasa or Annamaya. There will also be one or two Thamizh compositions if he is singing in Chennai etc.
Ofcourse if you request the Prince in advance for a Tamizh or any other composition of your choice , he will happily oblige.

After all he sings for Rasikas who attend the concerts , not for those who read the song list on the forum

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 26 May 2010, 17:43

cienu wrote: After all he sings for Rasikas who attend the concerts , not for those who read the song list on the forum

Indeed!

Every single artist does not need to sing every single language. It should be okay to let them follow their own tastes, play to their strengths, and perhaps temper these to the audience actually present in the concert (by singing requests etc.,). IMHO, this "Carnatic Policing" to require every concert and every artist to have the requisite number of Tamil krithis is suffocating.

- Sreenadh

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 May 2010, 18:28

...then why bewail the absence of Trinity in a concert!

arasi
I think it is a waste of time and energy for you to have your compositions set to music and published! Of course it will be highly appreciated by closeted Rasikas like us; but the general public will never hear them. As far as I can see the nontamil artistes have a few stock Tamil kritis just for the chennai audience. TN Rasikas are very broadminded but next only to the malayalees. They however have given up on malayalam compositions and are turning more towards FM with meaningful kritis set to nice light music unlike in TN. cienu has correctly outined Prince's apporoach. No point in finding fault with him at all.

devi · Post by **devi** » 26 May 2010, 19:17

I thoroughly enjoy Prince Varma's concerts/you tube posts but I always wish he treat his audience with elaborate RTPs which is a rare feature in his concerts. May be next time I shall try sending in a request for RTP...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 May 2010, 19:38

>>After all he sings for Rasikas who attend the concerts , not for those who read the song list on the forum <<

Bear in mind that those who read the song lists of concerts mentioned on the forum may (or not) attend the actual concerts if presented with an opportunity. So don't discount those who watch the lists.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 May 2010, 19:53

>>Every single artist does not need to sing every single language. It should be okay to let them follow their own tastes, play to their strengths, and perhaps temper these to the audience actually present in the concert (by singing requests etc.,). IMHO, this "Carnatic Policing" to require every concert and every artist to have the requisite number of Tamil krithis is suffocating.

- Sreenadh<<

Likewise don't bewail the absence of a kriti from one of the trinity in any particular concert . Also why sing PurandaradAsa kritis if the artiste performs in KarnATaka or AnnamayyA kritis in AP?

Singing audience requests has not been considered essential by many. Let the artiste march to his own mental drummer. Why shackle him with requests?

It is not a question of "requisite number of requests of Tamil krithis" that is at issue. The request here is to sing some Thamizh kriti (a main or sub-main) of the artiste's own volition. The audience is a composite of several linguistic entities. Hence it behooves the artiste to cater to them all. There is a significant number of Thamizh folks in the audience---right? The Thamizh folks appreciate linguistic kritis from regions other then their own but is it a crime to yearn to hear Thamizh kritis too. Is it? Come on. Why crucify such folks?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 May 2010, 20:04

The problem is many of the wellknown artistes of today were shishyas of past veterans who knew only Trinity kritis and a smattering of others some tuned by themselves. Most shishyas go by imitation of their gurus and hence are vetted only on those kritis. Take for example Thruppugazh... only the self same ones tuned by ARI are sung again and again though 1024 are available to choose from. No artiste has the time or inclination to try and tune new ones. Bharathy's compositions are as weighty in quality and quantity like those of T himself. Only just a token few were set to music (thanks to DKP/MS/...). P sivan would have been unknown were it not for DKJ and so his shishyas sing them ...again tokenism though there are over 400 to choose from. The problem is artistes (young and coming) do not want to take a risk or apply their brains to try new ones. Annammacharya and Purandara (thanks to MLV) have been tuned only lately but they are getting popular due to the pressure from their local populations. Our chennai artistes do not care for Rasika's feelings but dish out always the old wines in the old bottles

...any doubt 'CM ini mella Sakum'

(...in TN and among Tamils)

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 May 2010, 20:13

Are you saying that Darwinism does not work in CM?
Contrary to what creationists claim, Darwinism operates in every field of activity in all life forms. Those who do not adapt are bound to ...........

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 May 2010, 21:36

Darwinism cannot work once the species gets fossilized

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 26 May 2010, 22:15

Dear cmlover,
According to S.Rajam MMI was the reason for SIVAN'S compositions to be heard in concert halls seriously; Its true DKP & later DKJ(THO' NOT TO THE SAME EXTENT) were quite responsible for popularizing SIVAN'S COMPOSITIONS. I do not agree DKJ'S DISCIPLES have done MUCH in this area......Actually acc. to S.Rajam MMI WAS RESPONSIBLE even before the TAMIL ISAI movement for singing major songs in a concert in TAMIL.Of course he had the uncanny ability to make any song he sang HIS OWN & very few artists sang them AFTERWARDS!,....VKV

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 26 May 2010, 22:49

How do we know for sure whether Bharati or for that matter any other tamil poets wanted his/her compositions to be sung in CM style?

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 May 2010, 22:51

cmlover wrote:Darwinism cannot work once the species gets fossilized

If you give me the fossil, I can isolate the DNA from it and create a new species by introducing a plasmid for adaptation.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 May 2010, 23:03

Sorry VKV I forgot MMI's contributions. AFAIK SSI was not very appreciative of MMI's efforts in promoting Tamil kritis. He stopped with navasiddhi petralum..which he beat to death. Musiri of course went further and provided some fine viruttams. ARI promoted Arunacala Kavi in his thukkadas but it has not caught up. It is hard to find Tamil kritis that have the weight to be a main though P sivan gets close. I wonder why koteeswara Iyer didn't make it..

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 26 May 2010, 23:35

Dear cmlover,
IT is a matter of personal opinion about "Weightiness" of Tamil composers, compositions etc . In my opinion as a serious student of Tamil as well as carnatic music, Gopalakrishna Bharati, Muthu Thandavar, Arunachala Kavi, Mahakavi Bharathiar, Koteeswara Iyer, Sivan among others not to mention the VERY HIGH LEVEL of Tirupugazh etc are ALMOST ON A PAR & in certain instances even exceed the trinity. Gopalakrishna Bharathi's NANDANAR CHARITRAM in my view is probably musically as well as philosophically the SUPREME when it comes to ATMAN, JEEVATMA& PARAMATHMA areas.......I can go on& on but will resist the temptation...VKV

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 26 May 2010, 23:57

VK RAMAN wrote:How do we know for sure whether Bharati or for that matter any other tamil poets wanted his/her compositions to be sung in CM style?

VKR, the mahAkavi actually set many of his compositions to music and specified the rAga for them. I am not aware of any compsition being sung in the rAga he composed them in....
If you're talking about other 'poets', you will have to be specific. For instance, I am not sure if bhAratidAsan meant his poems to be 'sung'. I personally like them as poetry, but find the attempts to tune them to result in cacophony (notable exception of course being 'tunbam nErgayil' that seems to have been made for dES).

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 27 May 2010, 00:15

Thirupagazh and other viruttams

sreecons · Post by **sreecons** » 27 May 2010, 01:02

09. Saagara Sayana - Bageshri - M.D.Ramanathan

This must have been an absolute treat. . . he sings this beautifully.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 May 2010, 01:23

MMI, and now TVSankaranarayanan (true, from guru to disciple) have popularized many of PS's songs. Remember TVS singing an entire PS concert long ago in the US (way before the thematic fever caught on). I couldn't attend that one, but a friend, telugu-speaking but growing up in Chennai and living in a household where the trinity ruled, raved about the concert saying how beautiful and subsantial it was.

maheshr · Post by **maheshr** » 27 May 2010, 02:10

Arasi, Sri TVS gave a lovely concert for CMANA at Rutgers (New Jersey) many years ago (early 90's or late 80's) honoring Tamil composers (not PS specifically). His rendition of Periasami Thooran's Punniyam Oru Kodi in Kiravani (which I know he used to sing often) was just sublime - I am not the biggest fan of TVS (as I do find him somewhat predictable) but that concert soared to great heights and he lifted that composition (which I had not heard before that concert) to a Trinity level. It was one of those rare times where I later bought the recording of a concert I heard live. I vaguely recall that Mysore Nagaraj was the violinist but don't recall the mridangist. If CMANA has this concert, it is a must-listen. I wish I could locate it myself but seems to have disappeared (in my collection and in CMANA's!).

P.S. The concert and that composition prompted me at the time to learn more about the composer - what a Renaissance man he was!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 May 2010, 04:37

Let us not forget Ambujam Krishna whose illustrious line our own arasi belongs...

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 27 May 2010, 23:32

CML, neither AK nor arasi is forgettable personality.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 May 2010, 09:07

Arasi is taking all the pains to bring her compositions to lime light. AK had the support of enlightened artistes who popularised her compositions. Unless the present day artistes pay attention undoubtedly arasi will fade into oblivion and all her efforts will be wasted! Then cmlover will have to bewail along with Thomas Gray..
â€œFull many a gem of purest ray serene
The dark unfathomed caves of ocean bear:
Full many a flower is born to blush unseen,
And waste its sweetness on the desert air.â€

krishnathreya · Post by **krishnathreya** » 28 May 2010, 19:10

Since this discussion started off relating to PRV's Tamil repertoire and has moved on to Sri MMI, I thought of sharing PRV's article on Sri Madurai Mani Iyer .He explains that although he is more drawn to Telugu, Sanskrit and Kannada compositions versus Tamil and Malayalam, he is drawn to Tamil compositions when sung by Sri MMI.
http://ramavarma.yolasite.com/tribute-t ... i-iyer.php

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 May 2010, 20:30

Thanks for sharing. That is a very honest and straight-from-the-heart appreciation of MMI from the Prince. No wonder he fell in love hearing only the recordings. Goddess Bhagavati would have yearned to hear MMI at the maNDapam in those days. Now She has him all to herself in the company of Swati...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 May 2010, 20:42

What if Rama Varma admires his guru a great deal and may love telugu songs too? That's not the reason for the absence of tamizh songs in some of his concerts. After all, doesen't his guru sing and compose in tamizh too? RV seems to be broad-minded and tolerant, so there is no reason why he would avoid singing in any particular language. This happens to vocalists when they sing one concert after the other. I have heard tamizh speaking, tamizh-favoring vocalists give a few almost exclusive 'trinity concerts' here and there.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 28 May 2010, 21:07

Ramavarma confided to me in a personal correspondence that he loves the singing of MMI as well as KBS. He said he goes agog when he hears KBS. He even wanted to know the meaning of the songs sung by KBS. I was suprrised and provided him with the meanings of "pazham nI appA" and a couple of others. He has a soft and gentle voice similar to that of BMK, and Rajkumar Bharathi. He will fill the hearts of Thamizh folks if he takes to singing GKB (tiruvaDi saraNam, sabhApatikku etc.,), PS (KArtikEya in tODi), KI (aruL seyya---rasikapriya), OVK (tAyE yasodhE ----MMI's favorite), SNB (for example tUkkiya tiruvadi in shankarAbharaNam), MT, and Ramaswami Sivan, for a main item.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 May 2010, 21:13

Subramaniian!
Don't scare him

Let him get his 'kalaimAmaNi' first...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 28 May 2010, 21:35

No Thamizh songs-----> No kalaimAmaNi
mu ka says so!
If ammA comes to power, he can sing "guruvAyUrappanE appan" and get kalaimAmaNi.

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 28 May 2010, 21:46

mahakavi wrote:SNB (for example tUkkiya tiruvadi in KambOji)

tUkkiya tiruvadi by Shudhananda Bharathi is in Sankarabharanam, if I recollect right..

Sathej

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 28 May 2010, 22:28

Yes. I was still thinking of tiruvaDi saraNam when I wrote it.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 May 2010, 22:33

The Prince is fluent in Telugu. He even gives lecdems in Telugu!
Was he honoured by AP Govt in any way?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 28 May 2010, 23:05

He is fluent in French too.

Does all this mean anything?

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 29 May 2010, 01:24

Nick,
Good one but I wonder how many appreciate your Woodhousian sense of humour which is actually profound! Seen Bertie Wooster lately?!....regs, VKV

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 29 May 2010, 01:35

I am trying to understand... If I had been born and bred in one of these states, grown up with its language, even become a poet or artist in that language (instead of having just dropped in the other day, and remaining largely ignorant of the language, let alone its artistic charms), would I feel upset if a particular artist seemed to be avoiding my own language in favour of others. Honestly... I have no idea; I might. What's more, having already, sometimes, the zeal of the convert in my support of carnatic music, if I ever do get around my mental block and learn Tamil, I might well exhibit similar symptoms!

On the one hand, I ask, isn't enough that there are other artists singing in different languages. On the other, I suppose it is completely natural to want to hear an artist who one likes very much sing the language that one loves the most.

So... I'm right back on the fence!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 May 2010, 01:39

VKV
Even Jeeves can't resolve Nick's conundrum

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 May 2010, 02:13

But Nick has depth which none of Wooster's friends possessed.
Yes, I think too that sometimes his sense of humor goes unnoticed.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 29 May 2010, 03:28

Being fortunate to be able to appreciate and understand languages like telugu and kannaDA in addition to tamizh, omission of kRtis in a particular language is not as bothersome to me as the egregious mis-pronunciation of lyrics that is so rampant.
Having said that, I do believe that (if) the majority of the concert going crowd is tamizh-speaking (in my experience, it is so, with rare exceptions), it may be a mere courtesy to include one or two tamizh kRtis.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 May 2010, 05:02

Ravi,
About bArati dAsan: He was a singer in his youth and bArati heard him in puduchery and was thrilled with his performnce. It was only after that I think they became close friends (well, 'Subbu' rathinam looking up to bArati as a hero--which is why he chose the pseudnym of bArati dAsan).
It is possible that he also sang bArati's kIrtanaigaL in the specified rAgams.