On Critics

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 11 Jul 2010, 08:25

â€œI believe that the trade of critic, in literature, music, and the drama, is the most degraded of all trades, and that it has no real value,â€ Mark Twain writes. â€œHowever, let it go,â€ he adds. â€œIt is the will of God that we must have critics, and missionaries, and Congressmen, and humorists, and we must bear the burden.â€

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 11 Jul 2010, 09:17

Mark Twain's observations on critics is particularly true of critics in carnatic music if you exclude a few like Kalki etc. Rest are either mercenaries, or twist facts to gain favours with audiences or artists mostly. The shoddy and/or incorrect analyses they come up can only be taken seriously by half- baked ignoramouses.....Actually an ex-editor/publisher of Hindu admitted to me that "it sells" copies as an explanation & justification....VKV

Rasika911 · Post by **Rasika911** » 15 Jul 2010, 19:30

I don't pay any attention. to what they say, I just scan it to see an outline of what items have been presented.

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 15 Jul 2010, 20:18

I don't want to post it here

but there is a better quote on critics than Mark Twain's - see, for example, http://www.allgreatquotes.com/funny_quotes48.shtml

- Sreenadh

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 15 Jul 2010, 20:27

ShrutiLaya:
It is a great quote, alright! My addition at the end of that quote would be, "...they also know how not to do it."

That is the clincher when it comes to enlightened critics.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Jul 2010, 21:14

The concert reports here, by are regulars, are what I like in carnatic criticism. The newspaper reports, whenever I glance at them, are just the same old phrases thrown in the air and written in a different order. Perhaps I miss the good ones, because every time I try them I find them unreadable. It's like the CD titles: how many can there be called Evergreen Melodies!

jagan · Post by **jagan** » 19 Jul 2010, 18:44

I am surprised that none of the contributors seem to be acquainted with the glorious reviews by the late NMN (N M Narayanan) , the music critic non pareil of The Hindu nor that of B R C Iyengar..

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 19 Jul 2010, 20:09

jagan wrote:I am surprised that none of the contributors seem to be acquainted with the glorious reviews by the late NMN (N M Narayanan) , the music critic non pareil of The Hindu nor that of B R C Iyengar..

I am quite familiar with BOTH & actually knew NMN very well. However I stand by my statements & am NOT willing to talk about persons who are not around as I DONT wish to fall into the same trap I am complaining about. I am LEAST impressed by "Word smithing".......VKV

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 19 Jul 2010, 21:29

What makes a critics review "Glorious"?

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 23 Jul 2010, 11:05

vkv
I am indeed surprised and shocked over your sweeping statement, demeaning all the critics of KM, except Kalki. Shri R.Satyanarayana, musicologist, who is going to be awarded by MA, has written a very good book on Music Criticism and it is published and distributed by R.K.Srikantan Music Trust, Bangalore. We can come to well informed conclusion(s), after reading this book.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 23 Jul 2010, 11:22

Twain including "humorists" appears to be taking a dig at himself!

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 23 Jul 2010, 19:08

I mentioned Kalki & a FEW OTHERS. My aim was to flush out all the ctitics who have actually expressed their VIEWS in a manner to make reading reviews interesting without much content or correctness. They have on the whole misled the public for satisfying their egos or holding on to their jobs.I am sure there are a FEW who are good.Lets hear about All OF THEM ,I find less than ten percent are worth reading. It is well known many of them do not even attend the whole concert but write reviews......VKV

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 26 Jul 2010, 13:46

From just Kalki, to 10%. Good progress! May be more mails can coax it to 50

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 Jul 2010, 17:59

Written reviews are one, but effective, way to convey your disapproval of a particular part of the performance. It does not entail confrontation with the performer, as it does in face-to-face remarks. Have you ever heard an organizer (who sums up a musician's performance at the end of the concert) say "the vidwan was struggling to express himself in the upper octaves" or "he messed up the lyrics in that kriti"? I like to hear such remarks but don't bet your ranch on that. The person showers compliments (as if they are not from his wallet) such as "so and so took us to another world altogether".

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jul 2010, 19:13

The moral of the story for the performers: neither get giddy with the organiser's praise nor be devastated by the critic's words!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 26 Jul 2010, 20:10

The first part of the advice is fine (not getting giddy) but for the second part the advice has to be tweaked a little bit, "Be honest to yourself. If the reviewer was right, try to improve your performance along the lines indicated".

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 26 Jul 2010, 20:21

The best critic is ones own spouse and if unmarried, ones own mother! We do not take their criticism constructively more often than not

bhavarasa · Post by **bhavarasa** » 26 Jul 2010, 22:48

VK RAMAN wrote:The best critic is ones own spouse and if unmarried, ones own mother! We do not take their criticism constructively more often than not

What if you are married and are stuck between mother and wife?

What if they are offering opposing views with their criticism? Amma says, "nee romba brighA pOdara. kutcEri nA pAl pAyasam mAthiri irukkanum. unnOda kutcheri bisi bele bAth mAthiri irukku" and AtthukkAri says, "neenga yEn ippidi thair vada mAthiri pAdarEl? innum konjam janaranjagamA stylA brighA pOttu pAdungolEn"

Apologies to the non-Tamil speaking folks here.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 27 Jul 2010, 02:40

For the non-Tamizh folks, here is a rough translation.
Mother tells son: Son you indulge in too much brigAs. A concert should be like milk pudding (pAyasam). Your concert is like bisi bELA huli (kozhamu sAdam)
Wife: You are singing as though it is a soggy tayir vaDai (yogurt vaDai). You have to sing with more gusto and do more brigAs.

That resembles a situation: between Scylla and Charybdis!
In that situation it is better to ignore both of them and navigate out of their presence.

Purist · Post by **Purist** » 27 Jul 2010, 06:48

A good one Bhavarasa.

Very practical Mahakavi.

[img][Update]

Enna_Solven · Post by **Enna_Solven** » 06 Aug 2010, 22:32

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article553480.ece

Prose on the lines of , "When I was perambulating the streets of London I came upon this specimen of humanity..."

"Her commanding voice fortified with fine timbre suffused with emotive expressions fully treated the lyrics sublimating into the desirable mood of Bhakthi, the presentation deriving a share of its sheen from the very nature of the raga too."

"Considering the gravity of the subject matter under interpretation, the emphases were more on scholarly sophistication than on disseminating the expected subliminal contents."

"Had the artiste trod a simple path, Hindola would have shone with captivating grandeur and fascinating sweetness, the exceptional voice and the ardently acquired competence of this singer was unswervingly capable of materialising."

Why can't they write in simple, direct sentences? The review appears to be heavier than the concert. Critic mesmerized by his own words...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Aug 2010, 00:31

Academics may correct me (even you r-t

) but I don't think any of those quotes actually constitute properly formed sentences! Possibly the second one does; discarding the "gravity" clause would help.

This is absolute bull-excrement "English"

Energetic flow at all levels characterised the show: the numbers replete with brilliant flow of manodharma: yet, some felicitous some superfluous. Further, the numbers trod faster paces than was necessary. As a direct consequence, the movements suffered with lack of such experience, which could usher the listeners into a state of quietude, expected in such circumstance where a singer of her calibre was in picture.

Pay particular attention to the punctuation in the first "sentence"

The selected compositions had spiritual subtleties ingrained in them in addition to the element of devotion common to the art form: and such compositions warranted reasonable understanding about and deep insight into the nature of their contents, which set apart such compositions from the ones of sentimental significance.

Enjoy the lack of punctuation (that misplaced colon and the comma hardly count) in this awful mouthful.

Now, observe Jayachamaraja Wadiyar's compositions â€“ â€œShri Jaalandharamâ€ (Gambhiranata), â€œChintayami Jagadambamâ€ (Hindola), and â€œParipahimam Shri Varalakshmiâ€ (Shubhapantuvarali). In them, one invariably finds references to the significance of Shatchakra-s in the process of spiritual practices.

What, right now? Don't compositions always contain the same references anyway?

Well, I guess I had better stop the line-by-line bit.

I just cannot understand this getting past any newspaper editor in the world.

Enna_Solven · Post by **Enna_Solven** » 07 Aug 2010, 01:59

Nick,

The punctuation bothered me; but his English bothered me more. As I don't get to go to more Kutcheris, I read the reviews and try 'to be there'. But most critics play spoilsport.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Aug 2010, 03:27

It's very sad. When they could be extending that reach to those who can't attend concerts, and all they do is show off how many words they know. I was laughing, but now I'm not, because I realise what is missed.

I hope the wonderful song lists and concert reports posted here make it up for you.

smala · Post by **smala** » 07 Aug 2010, 06:49

If you think katcheri critics are at fault for their style (or lack of) writing, consider this :

Senate approval on steep fee hike on H1B, L1 visas affecting top India IT companies....in the news today

"I prefer our source, which is from these companies which are not, as I sayâ€”they are companies whose whole purpose is to bring people in on H-1B and the vast majority of them from other countries who go back to the other countries. That is a better funding source," Senator Charles Schumer from New York said in his remarks on the Senate floor.

English and punctuation. Nick, please note.

...The news : The Senate measure increases the visa fee to USD 2,000 per application on those companies that have less than 50 per cent of their employees as American citizens.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 07 Aug 2010, 07:18

s-p: thank you for the current news on H1B visa fee. Here is news paper report:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... lenews_wsj

mankuthimma · Post by **mankuthimma** » 07 Aug 2010, 11:58

Why can't they write in simple, direct sentences?

Reminds me of Prof Higgins in My Fair Lady.
Why Can't the English Speak...
Having said that , Criticism to me , has always been fascinating. There is a serious angle to it , in the context of bridging a gap between the Art and the layman.
That is why I dedicated a full page to this subject , in my blog at
http://chennairasika.wordpress.com/art- ... reciation/

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Aug 2010, 13:00

the awful example we have just seen from The Hindu (which normally "speaks" pretty reasonable English) is not really criticism, although I suspect that it has its equals all over the world. Proper criticism would seriously review the object of its attention. Often, though, it is the plaything of the academic and the intellectual, and certainly does not bridge gaps with the layman.

mankuthimma · Post by **mankuthimma** » 07 Aug 2010, 13:59

One does miss a NM Narayanan and a Mohan Nadkarni ....

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 08 Aug 2010, 01:50

Nick, aren't you aware of the obsession amongst many Indians to use rather flowery language?
"The violinist acquitted himself" sums up this tendency!

But hey, I do enjoy reading such reviews!

Perhaps critics/reviewers should be asked to take the Economist style quiz first.
(How many would you get right?)

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 08 Aug 2010, 02:20

yes, r-t, and it isn't restricted to India! You'll find that language everywhere where people have little to say but want to sound, not just clever, but elitist as well. Don't they crop up all over the academic world?

My big problem with this example is that the basic grammar isn't even right. I can imagine even a part-time village english teacher, whose doesn't even speak the language regularly, being horrified at this.

As you say, what with their acquittals (don't forget their sincerity!) and so on, this stuff is all much of a muchness, which is why, even though the list of titles and ragas may not mean much to me, I would so much rather read a concert report here on rasikas.org than read those in the papers.

Perhaps critics/reviewers should be asked to take the Economist style quiz first.
(How many would you get right?)

Not sure how many I would get right, (or should I say would agree with The Economist?

). Number 3 stands out, though, because I'm fairly sure that that hyphen is wrong --- in all three choices! Taking a quick cheat look at the answers makes me think I might have a go tomorrow (2.20am now!)

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 Aug 2010, 02:47

Good quiz, r-t.. I got 6 right. They did not give me credit for12 because they do not respect Americanisms. My reaction to their scorn is, 'Come On! Host the Google search yourself and access the data to see if it impacts the hemorrhaging of ad dollars!!

'.

10 is a great advice to follow ( it is a bit annoying when non-english words, especially french, are used unnecessarily ), 5 and 8 are good learning opportunities.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 08 Aug 2010, 03:05

Oh dear- I only got 7! And I contest that last one too. I don't even know which verbs were originally nouns! Expressions like 'host a party' are very common...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 08 Aug 2010, 03:42

Try not to verb nouns or to adjective them

Oh dear!

the noun "verb," used as a verb; the noun "adjective," used as verb! I think they rather put their foot in it there!

But I agree with the principle. Don't "gift" something; give it. Don't "task" somebody: give them a job.

...but it is even later than it was when I said it was too late for this stuff, and I did not follow the link on American usage.

It was an easy one, no 12, as there was only one simple straightforward sentence there.

"The firm haemorrhaged red ink..." Ouch... the mixed metaphor is the worst thing here: either "haemorrhaged" or "red ink" might have been made to work alone. I agree with Keep It Simple, but we are allowed an occasional metaphor

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 Aug 2010, 03:55

>I think they rather put their foot in it there!

I noticed it too.. I think they are being intentionally cute...

I think 'access' is a lost cause, and so probably is 'impact'. The verb use of those words are way too common.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 08 Aug 2010, 16:13

I scored 8, and went on to read much of their style guide.

Fascinating stuff.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 09 Aug 2010, 02:23

In this context, do read this lovely article (a classic) by the great George Orwell (written in 1946!):
Politics and the English Language

The rules he provides at the end of the article are very useful to keep in mind:
i. Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
ii. Never use a long word where a short one will do.
iii. If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
iv. Never use the passive where you can use the active.
v. Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
vi. Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 11 Aug 2010, 08:10

I got 8 right. Poor showing, I admit.
But I take exception to the questions 11, and 12 (I scored wrong on both). I found the choices were misleading, each one dealing with a different subject.
But that is The Economist. I used to subscribe to it when the price was right. But then they keep jacking it up despite the economy being in shambles.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Aug 2010, 09:04

You all would have already figured this out, but just in case... The actual score does not matter as much as knowing that you got the correct answer for the right reasons. They explain that with each answer..

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Aug 2010, 16:29

mahakavi wrote:I got 8 right. Poor showing, I admit.

Well, I got eight too, and I'm not so ready to admit that it is a poor showing!

Remember that these are guidelines for professional writers --- and we are not!

ragam-talam, Orwell puts it very nicely, and very succinctly, in a way most of us can actually remember. His final point is particularly nice

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 11 Aug 2010, 16:53

I got eight, in that eight , five were quick guesses as I was not sure which is right. Incidentally when I think and choose the answer i am going more wrong then when I dont think and guess. :^)

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Aug 2010, 17:28

That makes sense! Remember that this is about style --- not necessarily formal grammar.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 11 Aug 2010, 23:39

Nick H wrote:That makes sense! Remember that this is about style --- not necessarily formal grammar.

Yes. I agree, but that is haute couture. I cannot deny that I am a professional writer (because I have been writing both scientific and business articles for a long time). So I deserve 10 whiplashes with a wet noodle (make the noodle very thin please---the size of a thread which would easily pass through the eye of a needle). Thank you.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Aug 2010, 00:39

I cannot deny that I am a professional writer

Noodle lashes for you then!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Aug 2010, 11:24

Nick,
Victorian days are creeping into the forum, classroom punishment is back and I'd choose Orwell any day, however bleak the future may seem (even for CM, as the other thread poses the question: is CM stagnant?)

As for feeding the pig (sorry, troll), I'd rather not!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Aug 2010, 11:44

I used to do a sort of konnokol thing, like pig,,piggypigywig Pig,, piggywiggypigywig pig!

A friend used to be somewhat embarrassed if I broke out with this in the supermarket. More recently, my step-grandchild was amused, but now he is too old and sophisticated for such things.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 13 Aug 2010, 01:22

arasi wrote:Nick,
Victorian days are creeping into the forum, classroom punishment is back and I'd choose Orwell any day, however bleak the future may seem (even for CM, as the other thread poses the question: is CM stagnant?)
As for feeding the pig (sorry, troll), I'd rather not!

Dear Arasi - the above post of yours is easily the funniest I have read on this forum so far!
Truly a collector's gem.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Aug 2010, 02:56

Wow!
rAgamuDanum, mELa tALamuDanum Sonnadu pOlirukkiRadu. Thanks