TM Krishna uploads free downloadable concert on his website!

Rasika911 · Post by **Rasika911** » 18 Jul 2010, 10:29

http://www.tmkrishna.com/read3.html

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 18 Jul 2010, 21:19

A welcome trend. Many thanx for the link.

Thanjavooran 18 07 2010

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 18 Jul 2010, 22:26

This write-up is free of emotion/threat but very reasonable. I don't grudge TMK for his plea. We should honor his request. In the past he has been sounding arrogant but not in this appeal. Let those who don't care about his music because of his attitude (?) refrain from attending his concerts or buying his CDs.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 18 Jul 2010, 22:48

I also think this is a step in the right direction, and I also am glad that someone is willing to correct their stance in light of new information.

I still think the recording industry to maximize profits while understandable and natural can in many cases be detrimental to consumer, as well as advancement of free market etc. When the landscape is changing this fast, trying to force everyone to look it the old way (in order to protect your margins) is a losing battle (although if you are mighty enough, you can twist the arms of governments). Sustaining profitability is hard (and thus I understand their plight), and you have to continually change with the times or be rendered irrelevant.

Arun

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 19 Jul 2010, 13:28

Dear All

This reply may be appropriate for the long thread on the Topic of Vijay Siva and TMK opposing concert recordings without permission. But since another smaller thread has begun, I thought of posting here.

1. TMK and VS are quite right in what they say, though it is not in the interest of the common rasika. This is because of the following reasons.

"Live Concert" Recordings are available from various people in India and abroad for a price. I myself have paid Rs. 100 for a concert to one man in Chennai (in addition to giving blank tapes) for the recording of a 1960s concert of Smt. MSS. Isn't this man doing business based on someone else's music, with no contribution of his own. The collection that this man is probably his inherited. He has no business in selling these recordings? This man in Chennai is not the only one doing it. There could be many more all around the world, for a fact there is one man in dubai whose credentials in this regard are dubious.

GITAA cassettes come up with release of old MMI. SSI, ARI, GNB concerts. Are they legally allowed to do so? No - because these are made commercial based on illegal recordings of concerts. The MMI concert with Vasudevayani, Manasa Sri Ramachandruni, Thaye Yasoda and RTP Kambhoji (Parimala Rangapate) is one such release.

I am sure all like minded people should oppose this sort of trade. In fact, TMK and VS are probably worried about this aspect alone.

2. Earlier, in the 1980s and 90s - Music Academy concerts would be released through AVM Audio (Thank God they are not doing it anymore) - Bharath Film Distributors, who would edit the live concerts, increase the tempo of the songs to fit in the 45 mins cassette, mutilate it (chop of violin alapanas, tani etc), change the order of the songs (eppo varuvaro will be no. 3 in some recordings of theirs), remove songs from the list that have already been released (sung) in earlier Academy concerts of the same artiste etc etc. When you get such recordings, I am sure even a person who wants to spend money buying will be forced to do the "chor" way to get good unedited recordings. Personally I used to HATE AVM Audio recordings and as a principle I would refuse to buy the same, since i knew it was tampered beyond repair.

Fortunately, now Charsur and probably Rajalakshmi Audio record and sell unedited concerts, which is a BIG boon. More recording companies SHOULD come into this business so that piracy and illegal trade of music can stop.

3. Another issue - can we accept Krishna Gana Sabha selling their concert recordings 20-30 years after the concert (when the artiste is no more) as legal? Where is the permission from the artiste for such a release? These and many issues should also get addressed, now that this thread has occupued so much of cyber bandwidth.

last thing - CMLover: One cannot accuse VS or anyone else of being fascinated by the $. Music is their profession and giving concerts is their source of income, so if it is US which gives them more money, so be it. They have a few years of their prime when they can earn, all of them have a family to support - and in case of music there is no guarantee how long you can carry on - it depends on health, family circumstances etc. So, if VS is "recently" fascinated by the glitter of US $, so be it. So many Indians are employed in the US only for the same green US$, right? So, why single out a musician who tours the US. Also, when artistes with lesser callibre and vidwat can tour US repeatedly and earn - by diluting music and standards and singing to the gallery, VS is definitely a more capable musician who sings serious music.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 19 Jul 2010, 14:38

This reply may be appropriate for the long thread on the Topic of Vijay Siva and TMK opposing concert recordings without permission. But since another smaller thread has begun, I thought of posting here.

Why, for goodness sake? You address issues that are relevant to the other thread in the wrong place.

Can the moderators merge these two threads, which are all about the same thing? this additional thread is an irrelevance. Even its content is actually being talked about on the other thread.

arunsri , as a serious reply to your post, despite it being in the wrong place....

You are taking things from square one again with your use of words like "illegal" we've bee there, done it thoroughly, including contributions from a lawyer, and there is no cause to start over.

Some people are always going to do the wrong thing, as the heap of counterfeit-film DVDs in your local market will demonstrate. Some of that is going to apply to carnatic music as well. I am sure that most of us do oppose such illegal trade in music. That does not make the original TMK/VS right, or justify its tone, or its misuse of words like illegal and punishment.

If you want to join in the conversation, why don't you do it in the right thread, taking account of what has already been said?

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 20 Jul 2010, 05:52

If anyone has had success in d/l this file from rapidshare please upload it on mediafire.com or sendspace.com Thanks.
I have never been able to d/l anything from rapidshare.

Babu · Post by **Babu** » 20 Jul 2010, 06:34

Not a good idea. Will earn his wrath for sure. It is easy to download from rapidshare as there is waiting period of 60-100 seconds for the file to download.

Regards

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 20 Jul 2010, 07:46

Well, since TMK himself authorized the download, what difference does it make if one downloads and retransmits through an easier link to another person. That person is still getting an authorized download.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 20 Jul 2010, 13:08

Maybe this is a red herring.

I do feel that downloading something from a private site and using it yourself, and downloading it and putting it on a public site. I don't know about the law on this, but it is something that I don't feel comfortable about.

ngopal · Post by **ngopal** » 20 Jul 2010, 13:50

I beleive TMK is scheduled to perform in Gayana Samaj in Bangalore on 24-Jul.
Any idea what time the concert starts and where to get the tickets from ?

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 20 Jul 2010, 16:44

I was not aware of the implications. Let us just forget about uploading. Thanks.

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 20 Jul 2010, 20:52

Lakshman wrote:If anyone has had success in d/l this file from rapidshare please upload it on mediafire.com or sendspace.com Thanks.
I have never been able to d/l anything from rapidshare.

It was very much possible. It is a zip file.

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 20 Jul 2010, 21:00

ngopal wrote:I beleive TMK is scheduled to perform in Gayana Samaj in Bangalore on 24-Jul.
Any idea what time the concert starts and where to get the tickets from ?

It is in connection with Veena Seshanna festival. The concert is from 4.00 pm to 6.15 pm followed by an awards presentation function. Mostly it is a free concert. Not 100% sure. Contact person is the organiser- Musicologist, music correspondent and grandson of Veena Seshanna Mysore V. Subramanya.

ngopal · Post by **ngopal** » 21 Jul 2010, 14:26

It is in connection with Veena Seshanna festival. The concert is from 4.00 pm to 6.15 pm followed by an awards presentation function. Mostly it is a free concert. Not 100% sure. Contact person is the organiser- Musicologist, music correspondent and grandson of Veena Seshanna Mysore V. Subramanya.[/quote]

Thanks. I got a reply from the GayanaSamaja. They confirmed the timing as 4.00PM. It is indeed a free concert.
The other performances as part of the festival are:
23/7 6.30 R.K.Padmanabha
24/7 4.00 T.M.Krishna
25/7 6.30 K.S.Gopala Krishnan

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 21 Jul 2010, 18:24

For the record, I agree with Sri.TMK on most points; I do think artists have a right to their performances; They should be free to decide whether rasika recordings hurt or help CD sales and/or concert attendance.

But this is not what my post is about. I think it is great that Sri. T.M.Krishna provided a full concert for download on his website, and I sincerely thank him for it. (A small nit to pick: I wish he had given full details, including the names of the pakkavaadyaM artists, the venue etc.,). The recording quality is good, so it sounds like it is at least semi-official (must have come off the mixing board, I think). A few points come to mind:

1. Sri. TMK has a reputation as an innovator - singing a varnam as a main piece, singing Janaganamana in classical style etc., Whatever one may think of the concept, most of the people arguing may not have actually listened to the pieces in question. It is quite possible, I think, that the performer managed to make a masterpiece out of these - we'll never know because we only have second hand accounts of a transient experience, from possibly prejudiced "sophisticated" listeners. Sri.TMK can use this direct channel to communicate his experimental/innovative concerts to rasikas, and get a broader range of feedback.

2. Many "reviews" of concerts reflect the reviewer's preconceptions and impressions more than the concert itself. Having a good recording available will help us calibrate these impressions. For instance, I felt the "Jaanaki pathe" (Kharaharapriya) in this concert was not very satisfactory, though I will be hard pressed to say why. More learned members can comment on this, and we can all learn a lot by reading descriptions and going back to listen to the actual piece.

3. There has been a lot of discussion about sound adjustments. This recording sounds perfectly balanced to me, with no instrument intruding overly. We can also discuss and learn from such technical details when presented with a recording like this.

- Sreenadh

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 21 Jul 2010, 19:34

It's just one concert.

Fine, and for all I know, it might be a brilliant concert --- but just one. Is that really anything to get excited about?

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 21 Jul 2010, 19:42

I'm just pointing out all the advantages of having concerts for official download on the musicians own website, for the musician and for us. These cannot come from releasing commercial CDs (because so few of them will be sold) and from concerts (because only a couple of hundred will listen to any one concert). Hopefully, if the musicians see helpful and constructive criticism about their concerts and realize the benefits, there will be more than just one!

- Sreenadh

tkb · Post by **tkb** » 21 Jul 2010, 20:56

Rasika911

Sincere thanks for the concert link of Sri. T. M. Krishna and the recording is of good quality.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 21 Jul 2010, 22:28

ShrutiLaya wrote:I'm just pointing out all the advantages of having concerts for official download on the musicians own website, for the musician and for us.

There are great advantages, yes, and it is a really good idea. However, in the current circumstances, it does have a crumbs-from-the-table feel to it. Why not twenty concerts? OK, I'll be reasonable: five or six concerts, perhaps with different focus or features.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Jul 2010, 00:46

Nick,
Funny, the concert was offered in the midst of all hue and cry and made me too think of 'give the dog a bone'

Still, if it's going to be the beginning for him to offer his own well-recorded unedited concerts every now and then, I'm all for it

The storm is dying down and now is the time for performers and rasikas to think this over calmly.
Immigration issues at US borders says something in this context too.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Jul 2010, 01:24

Arasi, a regular conversation I had as a small child came to mind:

Mum: "Say sorry"

Me: "Sorry".

Mum: "Now say it as if you mean it!"

Taking a different view, and trying to be fair, there are other aspects to having stuff on one's website for download. One has to pay for the bandwidth to be used for a start. If it became a trend, though, it would be a welcome one. I'm afraid that many artists have (like me <Blush>) a website that was put together ten years ago and not touched since, or even worse, one that was started, in a blaze of glory and a home page which offers much but all the links point to "under construction", by a passing through student who never got further than starting the job.

I can almost hear you saying it, so I'll say it myself: yes, it is what they do on stage that matters, not their websites!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Jul 2010, 03:33

Good one NIck, that 'sorry' bit

You said it very well: what we expect most from the musicians is a performance where they put their heart and soul* in.

* Soul here is just part of the expression. Not to be taken for the other lofty meanings of that word. If it happens in the case of a few, we bow to them!

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 22 Jul 2010, 06:46

Nick H wrote:It's just one concert.

Fine, and for all I know, it might be a brilliant concert --- but just one. Is that really anything to get excited about?

Its a general tendency you can find about people (Indians in particular) that they get more excited and itching to do what people say them not to do...Unfortunately even i felt like echoing arasi's statement about hungry dogs shown a raw piece of meat ;(.. Just surprises me as to what extent people go to seek false popularity and attention..

Now we all know what a great deergadarshi Palghat Mani Iyer was when he said "Musicians should have many anAvasyams (Unwanted things) to become popular....

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Jul 2010, 19:53

Semmu,
I didn't make myself clear perhaps. All I meant was that the upload both diverted and appeased some rasikAs. Let me change it to: like giving a child a toy. 'A piece of meat', as you say it (again, I might have been obscure) gives a different tone to my statement. It can mean 'luring, bribing'?
Whatever it was, it did help bring down the controversy a notch

Your PMI quote is just right. Prefacing his line with "It's a pity" gives us more of an idea of what he said in tamizh.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 22 Jul 2010, 20:21

Nick!
What is the link to your website?

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 22 Jul 2010, 20:24

Nick H wrote:
Mum: "Say sorry"

Me: "Sorry".

Mum: "Now say it as if you mean it!"

With all due respect, all I can say is that your mum and I subscribe to different child rearing theories. Every so often, when I ask him to do something, my son flies into a tantrum, and goes off to his room and slams the door. An hour or so later, he comes out and starts an unrelated conversation, or gives me a hug. Then he goes off quietly and does the thing I asked him to do in the first place (or sometimes, we renegotiate and he does a milder version of it).

I don't force him to say sorry, like he means it. Actions speak louder, and there is no need to humiliate him.

- Sreenadh

P.S Websites are easy, I can help you fix yours if you want

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Jul 2010, 21:00

Fifty years have passed, Sreenadh. A lot of ideas have changed in that time.

Even I haven't looked at my website for ages. I don't think I've done any work on it for about seven years: http://www.mridangam.com

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 22 Jul 2010, 21:36

Thanks Nick.
Looking at your wedding pictures brings back old memories of your entry into our Rasika fold !

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 22 Jul 2010, 21:50

Nick uploads of wedding pictures very nice

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Jul 2010, 22:04

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nick-h --- if you guys really want to look at my pics

cmlover... actually, I was hanging around classical music forums quite a while before I even dreamt of marrying/living here! It began with rec.music.indian.classical, then I think there was forumhub, which probably a few of us remember...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 22 Jul 2010, 22:47

I do remember those Forums Nick; but
when you said 'I Do' you became the part of our Rasika Family - a darling member who now participates meaningfully in all discussions. You even have gotten a hang of our Indian Politics and I sure hope you have picked up enough Tamil to address even the rallies

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 23 Jul 2010, 00:01

I know enough Tamil to talk to the KaaKaas. Even my cat only knows the English for "fish".

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Jul 2010, 00:11

Learn to address the cat as 'poonai' (or pooccha if the Mrs prefers) then it will respond as;
'me yaa' (Am I) in tanglish (tamil+english)

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 23 Jul 2010, 01:37

Very good!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 23 Jul 2010, 02:00

Nick, Though I had seen some of your wedding pictures, not your home page! Very nice!
Talking about pUnais (pets) and getting back to the subject we were on--wonder if TMK has any pets at home.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 23 Jul 2010, 02:06

Mmm... mridangam.com - you could make a fortune by offering the url name for sale!
(not that you would do anything like that, of course!

)
Nice pics, btw.

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 23 Jul 2010, 07:22

Nick: Nice pics .Thanks for sharing!!

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 23 Jul 2010, 10:37

Nick:

Saw the pictures which gives a fair idea of your amazing passion for CM. For the benefit of new comers to the forum like me, can you brief how you were drawn to this Indian music - a brief history, if you please?! Thanks.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 23 Jul 2010, 15:36

It's very brief, kssr, because I can't actually remember!

I suspect that I first heard the sound of Indian instruments in the folk-rock music of Britain's Incredible String Band. Later, when I moved to London, of all the live music available (and my taste ranged from rock to classical) it tended to be the Indian stuff that got me off my backside to buy a ticket. It just appealed to me, as long as I can remember.

I do remember, that, at a point when I was thinking I should learn a bit more about what I was seeing, that one particular program, by Manorama Prasad, a London-based Bangalore-origin carnatic vocalist, so moved me that I gave up the idea of having a go at tabla and joined a mridangam class instead. So I have her to thank for planting my feet on the carnatic side of the fence. From then on it became as much a part of my social life as my musical life.

But a white face is not so uncommon at a carnatic concert these days, and many of them are better-informed than me. I'm just a music lover! If carnatic music was not so restricted to the SL-Tamil community in London, such faces would be much more common there. It is not that the community is not welcoming, absolutely the opposite, just that they don't bother to advertise functions outside of their own temples, shops, etc. My big regret is that I did not discover either Bharatya Vidya Bhavan, or the carnatic community, many years earlier. I don't know how i missed it ---- but even BVB is not good at projecting itself outside the Indian communities.

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 23 Jul 2010, 17:22

It is great, Nick. We certainly have a brand ambassador in the UK for CM. Yes- you guessed it. It's YOU. BTW, the reason we do not advertise outside the community is because, all those who get interested, come INTO the community!

Seriously, Indians are not,as a rule good at "promoting" Indian things- be it music, religion, culture or tourism. But, I guess, that due to some intrinsic merit in the stuff, it survives and also grows. There are of course a lot of people who shed tears for the loss of our culture due to western influence in the case of youngsters. I however do not. I believe that our system is well grounded and safe with or without any "promotion"

Thanks for your message. I am sure that I will be able to appreciate your posts better in future.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 23 Jul 2010, 17:59

>> I believe that our system is well grounded and safe with or without any "promotion"<<

kssr:
It is my contention too that except for dissemination of the events to a large segment of the community, CM should stay the current course. I do not support the call for "popularizing" CM. "Class" is (and should be) always in short supply and one should not try to cheapen that---like "gradeflation" that is taking place in education for quite some time. When I was teaching college chemistry courses a few years ago, there was a clamor for more "B" grades (elevation from "C") since that gave the students a passport for certain courses/curriculum. Also the more you give higher grades the more popular an instructor you become. I did not budge from my expectation of the students (no need to mention that I got a "C" from the students in their evaluation of the instructors). But I wore that "C" as a badge of honor. Sorry for the digression but the point is CM should not be taken to the masses. It will not work. It can remotely influence film music as it does now. That is a service per se.

mankuthimma · Post by **mankuthimma** » 23 Jul 2010, 19:45

mahakavi
you are absolutely right . three cheers.

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 23 Jul 2010, 21:20

Nick H wrote: ...
but even BVB is not good at projecting itself outside the Indian communities.

Amen. Not just the BVB though. I can tell you my own experience. Once it so happened that I was co-organizing a CM concert in the Boston area along with a local "white" Hindustani flautist. Because of my co-organizer I got to advertise the concert in local jazz clubs radio stations, University bulletin boards, etc -- places I had never even contemplated advertising a Carnatic Concert before. Come the day of the concert I was a bit worried if we would find any audience since the artist in question had already given a couple of local concerts -- to my amazement the hall was packed (must have been 200-300!) and all white faces too! After the concert I overheard someone asking whether such concerts are held often. Made me sit back and think of all the missed opportunities....

I don't want to generalize but I certainly realized how bad I was at outreach....

-Then Paanan

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 23 Jul 2010, 21:53

Mankutimma and mahakavi,
Point taken, but I don't want to take the word 'popularising' at its face value. For those of us who live away from India at least, popularizing, spreading (not thin) CM has worked very well. The kids who train themselves in CM have classical training, though living far away from Chennai and it shows in their music (example: Aishwarya Venkatraman, guru TNK) Popularising ' does not just mean cheapening by way of mindless fusion or flimsy film music. By rejecting it, we also approve of an elitist state for CM. If one says that's what it is, then I wonder: the OduvArs and vaiNava temple singers and nadasvaram players were all elitist musicians catering to creme de la creme rasikAs? Did the best musicians and rasikas from the rural areas come generation after generation only because they attended Chennai concerts and listened to classical vintage recorded music?
By the way, there is also something called the Cleveland Phenomenon which is mainly responsible for kids growing up in the US. Far away from their culture, but lapping CM up!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Jul 2010, 00:24

It is great, Nick. We certainly have a brand ambassador in the UK for CM. Yes- you guessed it. It's YOU

Not any longer... I've been living in Chennai since 2005.

CM should stay the current course. I do not support the call for "popularizing" CM.

Depends on your definition and methods. I certainly do not support dilluting it (although I do support a range of music, from lighter to heavier: we don't all like the same) but I do support broadening its audience. For instance, if you say "Indian Classical Music" to most non-Indians, they will think Ravi Shankar. The up side of this is, that if they like it all, they will be ready to sit through long, drawn out alaps: they will not be the ones saying, "stuff the RTP: give us bajans and film songs!". It would cost an organisation like BVB, London [literally] nothing to advertise its programs in Time Out and free listings papers: it would bring it both bigger audiences and, most likely, increased demand for tuition.

I just came to Then Paanan's post --- which says it all. I'd be the first to admit that many of my friends cannot stand Indian music (I really don't understand why, although there are certain strains of it that strain me a little and give me a clue!) but there is a vast, untapped source of love for carnatic music (Ravi Shankar and others have already done much of the tapping for HM) just waiting to hear of it.

And then I read Arasi's post...

We've come a long way from TMK

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Jul 2010, 01:02

>>By the way, there is also something called the Cleveland Phenomenon which is mainly responsible for kids growing up in the US. Far away from their culture, but lapping CM up!<<

It is still done within the community, not outside. Those parents who carry the flame want their youngsters to carry the torch--some of them trying to realize the ambitions they themselves could not. By "popularizing" it is meant to take promotional efforts to "proselytize"--so to speak--- get all and sundry. It will not work. The incentive has to come from within. As for the OduvArs, they all had it in them. They were not elitists but they had the passion which they did not take it all over to bring people in their fold. If people assembled to listen to their recitations it was due to the charm they exuded. On the other hand, if nobody had gathered to listen to them that would have been OK too for them.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Jul 2010, 01:18

Exactly! By the same token, some parents might be encouraging in their children a love for CM which goes beyond stage appearances and accolades. Let's not underestimate the power of CM or the values some parents are giving to their children which in turn inspires the kids.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 24 Jul 2010, 23:52

Nick H wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/nick-h --- if you guys really want to look at my pics

Dear Nick, I finally got thru' all your pics! AMAZING.....I now know you are patient if I judge your patience in just uploading so many detailed interesting pics.....I have to enlist YOU& YOUR CHARMING WIFE Sushila for the cause!....I will be in chennai nov22-march first week& hope to see you...I am interested especially having dinner with both of you....Regs, VKV

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 25 Jul 2010, 01:12

Looking forward to seeing you again, and hoping you have something interesting in store, again, for a rasikas meetup again this year.