Malladi Brothers, Chicago, Oct 3rd, 2010

[kedharam]

Malladi brothers
B. U. Ganesh Prasad - violin
Patri Satish Kumar – mridangam

Bhairavi – varnam
Bahudari – sakala shAnthi karamu , a lovely short sketch of bahudari by both the brothers, S@ 'sakala shAnthi karamu', Annamacharya, beautifully tuned by Sri. Nedunuri Krishnamurthi
poorna chandrika - shankhacakra gadApANim, MD
Vasantha – etlA dorikitivO rAma, R, S @ 'pAdamahimO peddalAsir vAdabalamO', T
Kuntalavarali – shivAya nama enRu, PS
Simhendra madhyamam – needu charanamule, K. V. Srinivasa iyengar, R, N@ 'vEda vEdAnta vidituDani velayu SrI sarvESa rAma', S
Ahiri – mAyammA yani nE pilacitE, SS
Brindavana saranga – 'kamalAptakula kalasAbdhi candra' with a whimsical grace, T
Kambhoji – RTP:)
Pallavi: “sEshA chala vAsa pAhimam alamElumangA pathE”
Kanda nadai, tisra gati, jampa
Swararagamalika in saveri, natakapriya, valaji, hamir kalyani, shiva ranjani, aberi,
Tani
Kapi – slokam: "Gangeyam vahni garbham sharavana janitham gyAna shEkam kumAram ..." followed by 'sOdanai sumaikku', PS
Kedaram – hari nArayana, PD
Kamas – rAma jOgi, badrachala ramadasa
gowri manohari - GangAdara shiva, ganapathi sachidananda swamy
RAgEshrI – tillana, Sri. lalgudi Jayaraman

My thoughts:
Vasanta ragam came wafting along the quiet currents of the raga's microtones with nedunuri garu-ish phrases with a lovely reply by ganesh Prasad highlighting it’s haunting quality…nice prelude to the mystic longing of the composer...

Simhendra madhyamam - After the delicately colored treatment of the raga, the composition and neraval followed with eerie clarity with the words ‘vEda vEdAnta vidituDani velayu SrI sarvESa rAma ’of philosophical grounding, as the brothers presented the essence of simhendra madhyamam and sri. ganesh Prasad played with a compelling warmth especially in the violin’s plummy lower range…

Ahiri - the reflective interlude, mayamma - by weaving threads of melody that cradles the composition the brothers brought out the inner pathos of the raga with controlled intensity …an utterly poised delivery…
RTP:)
The evening’s delight Kambhoji, got the leisurely treatment...ragam...an evolutionary process covering all the registers, revealing many facets of the ragam followed by tanam where melody unfolded over solid but shifting rhythm…
The pallavi, “seshA cala vAsa pAhimAm alamElumanga patE”, a study in melody and rhythm in Kanda nadai, tisra gati, jampa thalam was brought to life with consummate craftsmanship with the fiddler’s melody and the rhythmic outbursts of satish kumar overlapping, creating an implicit drama ...the swara ragamalika was packed with unabashedly rich timbres, making the transition convincingly and played meltingly by Sri.ganesh Prasad and sri. satish kumar followed by tani laced with exceptional grace and fluidity, drawing listeners in… an improvisational collaboration…
a very good concert.

[arasi]

Kedharam,
Thanks for your 'thoughts' on the concert Sounds as though it was a concert of quality.
That RTP must have been pretty impressive. The brothers have sung two of Sivan's compositions--not just a token tamizh song! Ganesh Prasad can be very supportive as an accompanist. Patri's playing is something else!

[kedharam]

yep, yep, a very good concert after a long drought arasi. good thamizh diction in 'sodanai sumaikku', one of my favs:)..and pallavi was something else:)...and good food at the arora temple:)...

[rshankar]

Kedharam, the Bhadracala Ramadasa kRti must have been 'rAma jOgi mandu konarE', right? Not rAma jOti....

[kedharam]

thanks rshankar. corrected it.

[suma]

Yes that was Rama Jyogi Mandu Konnare. They sang a viruttam (poem composed by dasaradhi) before this song. They also started off with a viruttam before the bhairavi ata tala varnam.

Excellent concert - sang over 3 hrs! Petri Satish was outstanding.
While both the brothers were outstanding, I noticed that this time the younger one (the taller artist) sat by the mridangist. In the past when I saw the live concerts, the older artist would sit by the mridangist. May be it does not matter, but this was a change for sure )

[hamirkalyani123]

Thanks for the review. So, the RTP went to Chicago rather than RTP area.

>>younger one (the taller artist) sat by the mridangist

The younger one (with touches of bald hair and short in height) whose name is Ravi sits next to Violinist always. The taller one(with curly hair) and whose name is Sreeramprasad who is taller of the two sits next to Mridangist always. I think you got it wrong.

[vasanthakokilam]

>So, the RTP went to Chicago rather than RTP area.

[harimau]

Malladi brothers

Kambhoji – RTP:)
Pallavi: “sEshA chala vAsa pAhimam alamElumangA pathE”
Kanda nadai, tisra gati, jampa

The pallavi, “seshA cala vAsa pAhimAm alameEumanga patE”, a study in melody and rhythm in Kanda nadai, tisra gati, jampa thalam was brought to a very good concert.

No one has given a satisfactory explanation of the difference between nadai and gati. Vidwan Sri Chengalpet Ranganathan has even said there is no difference between the two (in a lecture-demonstration at Raga Sudha Hall).

What variety (jati) was the Jhampa talam?

[kedharam]

harimau, as you can see my knowledge on these technicalities are quite shaky. Blame it on Sri. Chengalpat Ranganathan:)... reasons for this confusion are his lec/dems:) Each time I feel I get a hang of it…well, sort of… the truth is I come out with greyer hair…I thought theory of relativity is one tough area to understand…that is until I bumped into this area…well, things in life are relative:) I guess…
well, one last try:)…is it ‘kanda nadai tisra jathi jampa thalam’? please tell me I passed the test:)

[harimau]

harimau, as you can see my knowledge on these technicalities are quite shaky.

well, one last try:)…is it ‘kanda nadai tisra jathi jampa thalam’? please tell me I passed the test:)

Khanda nadai tisra jati jhampa talam would have a total of 6 beats, each having 5 subdivisions.

Khanda jati tisra nadai jhampa talam would have a total of 8 beats each having 3 subdivisions.

How many beats did the brothers employ?

You were at the concert so you have to tell me what you saw.

[kedharam]

“Khanda nadai tisra jati jhampa talam would have a total of 6 beats, each having 5 subdivisions”

Yep, this is it…thanks for making my day:) so after all I got my facts correct this time around…I did indeed pass the test:)…the lec/dems did help:) so this season I can make a clean sweep of the breakfast (guilt free) at the parthasarathi swamy sabha:)…can’t wait:)

[semmu86]

No one has given a satisfactory explanation of the difference between nadai and gati. Vidwan Sri Chengalpet Ranganathan has even said there is no difference between the two (in a lecture-demonstration at Raga Sudha Hall).

I think Vidwan Sri Chengalpet Ranganathan told Gathi and Nadai are different, as i had attended that same lec-dem at Raga Sudha. I remember him telling "gathi is the one which comes inside nadai".. It seems PMI or PSP had taught him this,,

But in my opinion , gathi and nadai are both the same . Probably the only difference is gathi is sanskrit term and nadai is a thamizh term . For eg, let us take adhi thAlam 1-kalai thisra gathi .

123 123 123 123 123 123 123 123
I II III IV V VI VII VIII

Here roman letters indicate the 8 beats of the thalam . Now let us take chatusra patterns (1234) in thisra gathi .

123 412 341 234 123 412 341 234
I II III IV V VI VII VIII

So when we look at the above examples , both are thisram only . Whether we play eight 123's( 8x3=24) or six 1234's (6x4=24) , the basic calculation is 24 played over a cycle of 8 beats , which is nothing but 3 per beat , which is basically thisram . So i dont see any room for confusion between gathi and nadai .

Probably we can say the second pattern using 1234's as another variation/dimension in playing thisram .

The same applies to khandam also ( again i take adhi thalam 1-kalai) . Whether we play eight 12345's (8x5=40) or ten 1234's ( 4x10=40 ) , we play 40 spread over 8 beats ( 5 per beat ) which is agin khandam only .

12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345

12341 23412 34123 41234 12341 23412 34123 41234

However different schools have different opinions about gathi and nadai being synonymous .

[arasi]

Semmu,
Though all this is beyond me, from the words point of view, is this the built-in (?) relationship of a walk and a gait which are differentiated here? I can understand something like that, though I have no way of putting it in words.

[vasanthakokilam]

the discussion that started this is based on a typo by kedharam, jAti instead of gathi . So in the context of this review, it is really not about Nadai vs Gathi.... If this discussion goes too much in the direction of Nadai vs Gathi, we will later move it out of this thread.

What does

"I remember him telling "gathi is the one which comes inside nadai""

actually mean? Did anyone ask him that or did he explain that himself?

Different schools can have different opinions with respect to naming things but at least we need a clear understanding
on what their names refer to. What is really upsetting is these different schools think so narrowly that they consider others who do not subscribe to this as Wrong / Illiterate / Mock-worthy.. That is just foolish and a reflection of parochialism.

Stepping down from my soap-box,

Anyway, it is more a question about nomenclature itself rather then anything fundamental, but it is important to arrive at a consensus for communication purposes.

Semmu: thanks for your example. I agree completely.

Also, see post #29 of this thread about chathsra tisram : http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 1&start=25
That is another possible interpretation of 'one inside the other'.

[harimau]

the discussion that started this is based on a typo by kedharam, jAti instead of gathi .

If so, Kedharam would have said so. After all, I did give him his way out by asking what jati of Jhampa tala was employed. He could have said there was a typo and he meant jati and not gati.

[harimau]

I think Vidwan Sri Chengalpet Ranganathan told Gathi and Nadai are different, as i had attended that same lec-dem at Raga Sudha. I remember him telling "gathi is the one which comes inside nadai".. It seems PMI or PSP had taught him this,,

Sri Ranganathan started by saying that nadai is Tamil and gati is Sanskrit and both mean the same thing. Then he did come out and say that gati is inside nadai according to some but didn't provide a lucid explanation. I omitted that part in order not to complicate the discussion.

Whether we play eight 123's( 8x3=24) or six 1234's (6x4=24) , the basic calculation is 24 played over a cycle of 8 beats , which is nothing but 3 per beat , which is basically thisram . So i dont see any room for confusion between gathi and nadai .

Probably we can say the second pattern using 1234's as another variation/dimension in playing thisram .

However different schools have different opinions about gathi and nadai being synonymous .

Correct.

[vasanthakokilam]

If so, Kedharam would have said so. After all, I did give him his way out by asking what jati of Jhampa tala was employed. He could have said there was a typo and he meant jati and not gati.

OK, it was not a typo but a terminology confusion. My focus was not on that but the point about moving any nadai vs gathi posts to another thread, if needed. Thx.

[arunk]

123 123 123 123 123 123 123 123
I II III IV V VI VII VIII

Here roman letters indicate the 8 beats of the thalam . Now let us take chatusra patterns (1234) in thisra gathi .

123 412 341 234 123 412 341 234
I II III IV V VI VII VIII

So when we look at the above examples , both are thisram only . Whether we play eight 123's( 8x3=24) or six 1234's (6x4=24) , the basic calculation is 24 played over a cycle of 8 beats , which is nothing but 3 per beat, which is basically thisram . So i dont see any room for confusion between gathi and nadai .

If I may offer a contrasting position. I do think gati and nadai are same but I think the bigger problem is that the definition of "tisra gati", "catusra gati" seems to be based on an external factor, the beat of the tala, and is not necessarily reflective of the inherent laya in the rhythm or melody. The relationship/correlation between the term "gati/nadai" and the natural meaning of the word i.e. rhythmic gait is a weak/loose one - they do not always have correspondence. Perhaps we would have been better served with a more neutral term.

From a rhythmic gait perspective, I do not think it is a given that the catusra pattern of 24 (within a tisra-adi song) MUST be divided as you did above and thus concluding "it is still 3 per beat", as I think this division can be artificial, and can lead to the potentially misleading implication that the melody (or percussive rhythm) must still be divided into patterns of 3 (or 6 or 12) because of how tala is kept. For example, if in the above examples, there is a consistent emphasis on the 1s (or just 2s, 3s, 4s) I would argue that first be tisra gait and second would be just like catusra gait . Of course, the tala keeping would deem it as 123 412 341 but the rhythm pattern (because of emphasis of 1s) would be clearly 1234 1234 ...

The inherent gait (as in rhythmic gait) of cm songs does NOT go lock-step in terms of actual gait with the spacing of the tala "beats". Nor do the spacing of the tala "beats" imply a single, consistent gait for the laya of a cm song. Establishing the gati based on tala spacing IMHO is in some ways a gross over-simplification.

Arun