Gajamukha Ganapathiye-Sarasangi

[revanthv552]

I heard Nithyasree sing this song "Gajamukha ganapathiye" in the MArgazhi maha utsavam. I really loved the song! So was curious to know who the composer of this song was? and if possible could someone post the lyrics!?

[Sathej]

Going by the hint in the Charanam, I would guess its a composition of her mother - Smt Lalitha Sivakumar..

Sathej

[Lakshman]

It is indeed by Rukmini Ramani. Here are the lyrics:


gajamukha gaNapatiyE. rAgA: sarasAngi. rupaka tALA.

P: gajamukha gaNapatiyE vA karudum varam kanivuDan tA
(madhyamakAla)
gajamukhAsuranai konra karimukhanE sumukhanE shrI
A: nija bhaktar manam kuDi koNDavA
(madhyamakAla)
nidam undan padamalar tanai gatiyena karudinEn ayyA
C: dEvadEvar pUjai sheidu dEvan unai tEDi varuvAr dEva mahAdEvan
maghan guha sOdaran dEvA nALum shivakumari nAmam pADi paNindiDum

[revanthv552]

thank you so much

[Pratyaksham Bala]

In Pallavi:
konRa instead of konra.

[Lakshman]

Pratyaksham Bala: We have had a lot of discussions on the use of R in tamil sAhiyas and I understand your reason for pointing it out each time. But I am posting the lyrics for the benefit of rasikas who do not know the tamil language and for them it does not make any difference whether a lower case r or an upper case r is used.

[arunk]

Lji - the difference between R and r is not the same as the difference between the two na's in tamil, The latter (two na's - not to be confused with Na as in paNam) are pronounced identically. The Ra most definitely has a pronunciation difference with ra, albeit it is subtle, and would perhaps be very much so for non--tamils. However, there ARE words in Tamil where the difference in ra causes a difference in meaning (e.g. maram vs. maRam, karam vs. kaRam, puram vs puRam).

The pronounciation difference albeit subtle could be argued that it is as subtle to a non-tamil as say the difference between ka and kha is to a Tamil even in the context of other languages. So merging/confusing the two ra's in proper tamil usage would be sort of like mergin/confusing ka/kha in sanskrit/kannada/telugu.

Given that here we pay a lot of importance to pronunciation of sahitya, and jump up and down when artists make mistakes, it might be better to not compromise and use the correct letter if possible, i.e. when people point out

Arun

[Lakshman]

arunk: When people stop the overuse of h when transliterating (example: ganapathiye in this topic instead of ganapatiye-you pointed out that there is a difference between ka and kha. Similarly you know there is a difference between ti and thi) I will start using the r and R correctly.

[arunk]

No need to get defensive Lji.

I only pointed it out in the context of suggestions for improving your database to convey correct pronunciation (rather than any proxy language wars which I am least interested in). But if those suggestions are unwelcome or unneeded, I am more than content to withdraw.

Arun

[ragam-talam]

The r-R distinction is not unique to Tamil alone. It exists in Malayalam also. E.g. Aru means who, ARu means (the number) six.

[Lakshman]

I am not being defensive. I try to post the lyrics with the least of complications so that it is easy for all to read. I understand fully that there is a difference between the use of r and R in tamil lyrics but does it make any difference to one who does not know the language?
If I have to write the word for 'mistake' I would have to write kuRRam according to the rules. But would a kannadiga or telugu person read it as kuTRam? I don't think so unless he/she knows tamil. In that case they already know the meaning and the correct way of writing and the subtle pronunciation. I hope I have made the point clear.

[arunk]

I see your point. I was under the impression that you also wanted the correct pronunciation - of course without over-complicating the matter - but I know that isnt really that easy. Language pronunciation differences can be quite subtle to be representable in transliteration without over-complication.

I was only implying that non-tamil speakers shouldn't presume that for all practical purposes that ra and Ra in a tamil context are phonetically identical (as I presume you conveyed in your earlier post?), just like tamilians shouldnt assume ka/kha are for all practical purposes phonetically identical (or that using one in place of other isnt that big a deal) in non-tamil contexts

Arun

PS: Also, not to belabor the point any more, I would say this is also not the same as kuRRam, which is perhaps more like the use anuswara in telugu/kannada for ng/nc sounds (or perhaps it is more like the use of anuswara in Sanskrit which I hear is supposed to carry a subtle phonetic difference and thus is used only in some ng/nc and equivalent contexts). As srkris pointed elsewhere while kuTRam is a more user-friendly and a fair approximation, it also conveys a subtly incorrect pronunciation. The Ra is a distict consonant and a distinct phoneme in tamil (and in malayalam).

[rshankar]

Arun - as a native tamizh speaker, I have to say that I find the difference between the pronunciation of r and R, and ன and ந, especially in music to be as subtle as the difference between श and ष, while I find the difference between क and ख to be much more evident, even in music. On a lighter note, I also think that the problem that makes people unable to distinguish क/ख from ग/घ must lie more with what's between the ears, and not in the ears themselves!!

[arunk]

Arun - as a native tamizh speaker, I have to say that I find the difference between the pronunciation of r and R, and ன and ந, especially in music to be as subtle as the difference between श and ष,

It is perhaps a better example.

Btw, as far as I am aware there is no phonetic difference in modern tamil between ன and ந. There is certainly a perceptible difference between r and R and in music sometimes r becomes R (e.g. Jency, a old playback singer in tamizh overemphasized the r)

while I find the difference between क and ख to be much more evident, even in music

I would offer this is subjective. I can spot it, but I am making a fair bet that lot of tamil folks who have been exposed to only tamil and english may not.

. On a lighter note, I also think that the problem that makes people unable to distinguish क/ख from ग/घ must lie more with what's between the ears, and not in the ears themselves!!

It has to do with attention to detail (which assumes you care enough to pay attention to it). So true - but I wouldn't construe it as a lack of intelligence.

Also, I have mentioned elsewhere, IMO languages are way way more dynamic than what (conservative) CM folks assume and proclaim on behalf of everyone else.

Arun