THE HINDU - its overzealous promotion of a select few

needhidevadai · Post by **needhidevadai** » 02 Dec 2006, 21:32

Of late we see ONLY the reviews/ photographs of T M Krishna, Sanjay and Bombay Jayashree appearing in the daily week after week. In between Fridays, there are new "inventions" for publicity like "sanjay in cofee shop", "Krishna's views on the present day CM", "Krishna writing a book with Bombay Jayashree", etc. Hello Mr.Hindu, there are a lot of other artists too in CM.....are u listening?

If this goes on, I am afraid the daily might run short of ideas....So some pet ideas.....

1. "Friday Review Section" may be rechristened as "TMK Section" Mr.Krishna, why don't you put your cutout on the frontage of the daily's office? Everyone knows that you are the boss of Geetha Venkatraman of FR Section.

2. "Sanjay's ideas which occured in the bathroom" with a photograph of Sanjay clad in a towel

3. Bombay Jayashree reading Ramayana. She is the future MSS, an epitome of Bhakthi and has rendered some bhakthi filled songs like "Vaseegara...." in Carnatic style and other songs with the complete usage of her phenomenal vocal range of "half an octave".

4. T M Krishna's photo can replace the logo "THE HINDU" so that everyone can stare at the same face daily (more easily) on opening the paper itself.

.....Needhidevadai will keep coming.......

rajagopal · Post by **rajagopal** » 02 Dec 2006, 21:36

Of late we see reviews of artistes in this forum who have stopped performing completely because they were deemed as complete failures! Instead of reviewing current day artistes we can in this forum keep reviewing only our won tape collections which contain the same ragas and songs.

For instance there can be a single review for the following 15 concert tapes of Semmangudi which has Deva deva, Gnanamosakkarada, Marubalka, and Sankarabharanam RTP.

Or 11 tapes of MDR with Kalyani varnam, ninne bhajana, any song in yadukulakambhoji or Reetigowla, a Todi main piece and his own composition in the end.

Or 9 tapes of GNb with Begada varnam, Vatapi, Pantuvarali, Todi and RTP in Kalyani.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 03 Dec 2006, 11:43

rajagopal you are sadly outdated. You may have only 10 to 11 tapes of these legends but there are people in this forum who have 100s of hrs of their music.

By the way what & whom do you mean by 'complete failures'.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 03 Dec 2006, 13:02

rajumds
I did not see the sarcasm until you pointed it out !

I thought that rajagopal was referring to the failure of the world at large to acknowledge these artistes.-
i would love to have list from rajagopal, though.
Time to remeber that
Van Gogh never sold a single painting in his own Lifetime.
Worse , his brother Theo went bankrupt , supporting him all his life and had to even lose his own wife for want of enough resources at the Hospital ...

Anyone deeming anyone else a complete Failure - Blah !!!

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 03 Dec 2006, 16:07

but coolji,
i'm not referring to our forum alone. generally people who have spent donkey's years are treated with reverence and the same treatment is not meted out to youngsters. the seniors' follies are given allowances. when the same comes in the case of an youngster the forum or any forum is not so charitable. what is the reason for this?

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 03 Dec 2006, 17:36

the reverence is for what they have achieved. The brickbats for the younsters is not to discourage or to be uncharitable to them but to ensure that they don't rest on their present laurels. It is to remind them that constant improvement is a must & they have a long way to go.

by the way you use the term 'donkey's years ' when refering to useless existence. It is not a term to use when talking about artists whose 'golden years' may be behind them

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 03 Dec 2006, 18:06

chalanata
There is some confusion about what rajagopal wanted to say - i will comment further after rajagopal clarifies.

Coming to your point, this forum has specifically directed its attention towards those aspects of Composers , Compositions , Artists , Ragas , Regions , which are which are not generally known .Not by any design , but only by strength of participation.

Secondly when it comes to reviews , we have taken care not to display lack of reverence to anybody, whether young or old.And if you see carefully, Over a long period of time , we have shown that the stereotype image of an artist is not the correct picture

11 tapes of MDR with Kalyani varnam, ninne bhajana, any song in yadukulakambhoji or Reetigowla, a Todi main piece and his own composition in the end.

OR

109 Concerts with a repertoire as given in a Word document

http://www.rogepost.com/dn/2n7q

This forum tries to bring the rasikas as close to reality as possible and not depend on Fly by night reviewers , biographers and Coffe table book publishers.
Again not by design -but by progressive participation.
If Rajagopal insists I can work out a similar document for GNB as well as Semmangudi - The results are very similar.
Beyond those senior artists whom we rever and see basking in glory, spare a thought for all those senior artists , whom we know only by name ,or worse ,a faulty association with a few krithis.

But i will wait for rajagopla to clarify ...

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 04 Dec 2006, 05:42

Looking at the word file, 300+ items is a pretty good repertoire I think!

Rajagopal, you need to expand your collection a bit I think.

shripathi_g · Post by **shripathi_g** » 04 Dec 2006, 07:48

coolkarniji,

From a cursory glance, I could spot that the list is missing Janani Ninnuvina, Janani Mamava (Bhairavi, ST), Koniyadina, RTP-Mohanam.

Sripathi

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 04 Dec 2006, 08:48

agreed.
it was made out a long time ago , to help me locate tracks quickly .But I stopped that practice and Preferred a CONTROL F mode on the word docuemnt,instead.Anyway I was just trying to drive home a point.

shripathi_g · Post by **shripathi_g** » 04 Dec 2006, 09:38

Oh, I didn't intend to be pedantic there. MDR is like God to me and I was just anxious to point out the missing items.

rajagopal · Post by **rajagopal** » 04 Dec 2006, 14:51

300+ items in 109 concerts is not a great repertoire. Compared to the number of songs modern day musicians sing and the no of concerts this is really very meagre. I don't need to expand my collection to say this. I hear enough concerts of present day musicians to say that what they are doing is absolutely remarkable. The kind of travel they undertake, the no of concerts they sing and the amount of compositions they cover is really mind boggling. Look at the number of thematic concerts they give! How many of the old masters have done this? Except for their annual Navarathri concert where they are expected and forced to sing fresh pieces every year, the old masters basically stuck to a standard repertoire. Yest it was large to them in the context and the no of concerts they sang at that time. That's all!

My point is that there is a tendency to over glorify the old masters at the expense of modern day musicians on whom we are too harsh. I don't think we are being fair to them in anyway.

As for unknown musicians these same rasikas who glorify them on the net hardly attended their concerts 15 years back especially when there was no internet. Today the internet is being used by a few to stake claim to being 'gnaasthans' because they happen to hear a concert of 80+ year old artistes. There is never an attempt to be objective about their performances. A classic case is Manakkal Rangarajan. His concerts were very successful at one point but then he faded away over time because the rasikas rejected him. and they had good reason because they preferred KVN and DKJ, simple.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 04 Dec 2006, 17:46

I do agree that the current crop deserves every bit as much credit as those from the "golden age"...Sanjay is just one among many who already deserve to go down as legends...youngsters are getting technically better than their predecessors - you have wider repertoires, more adventurous raga explorations, better understanding of laya - it's there for all to see. That is the way it should be with a progressive art form and I have no doubt that CM today is one....we can debate about the soul content (and I would generally side with the "oldies" on this one) but we are already well into opinion territory

However just like it is unseemly to run down the present with the glories of the past, it is myopic to deny the brilliance of our great masters, on whose giant shoulders our present vidwans stand...and surely, the general endorsement of rasikas, or the lack thereof, can hardly be a yardstick of success or failure - be it Manakkal (whom, I confess, I haven't heard much of), or Ramnad Krishnan, or MDR or Voleti...

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 04 Dec 2006, 18:18

The basic thrust of Rajagopals argument - I have no quarrels with that .. The old vs the new can be debated for as long as we want.
But statements like
**The whole work of GNB-MDR and Semmangudi being encapsulated in 10-15 tapes apiece !,
**300 krithis is not a great repertoire,
**someone glorifying Old AT THE EXPENSE OF the new
**Rasikas Rejecting Manakkal in favour of DKJ / KVN
**Internet being used by a few to stake a claim to be a Gnanastha
**We are harsh on todays artists and are not fair to them.

Cmon Rajagopal,
We need the case to be presented much better.

Make your core statement .
Expand it to cover all the happenings in this forum

and lastly give your experience , outside this forum.

rajagopal · Post by **rajagopal** » 04 Dec 2006, 20:08

**The whole work of GNB-MDR and Semmangudi being encapsulated in 10-15 tapes apiece !,

That was just a euphemism but the thrust is that those tapes provide enough proof for me.

**300 krithis is not a great repertoire,

Compared to the 800+ kritis of some of the modern day stars!

**someone glorifying Old AT THE EXPENSE OF the new

There are enough posts in this forum to prove the above.

**Rasikas Rejecting Manakkal in favour of DKJ / KVN

Otherwise Manakkal would have been as regular as KVN/DKJ in most concerts right through the eighties and nineties. Where was Manakkal all those years? Wasn't he younger and fitter than he is today? Why wasn't he given chances when he was still singing in the radio etc?

**Internet being used by a few to stake a claim to be a Gnanastha

I see this attitude among some of the posters here and i voice my opinion against that attitude.

**We are harsh on todays artists and are not fair to them.

This is very clear as stated above in so many posts as well as posts in the earlier sangeetham.com bulletin board. Just look at the forum on vidwans in this board itself. how many of today's artistes are being discussed or being fair to. They are just ignored while pages and pages are written about the yester year masters. Of course they were great in their own right. But the posters here are only posting by listening to their tapes. Very few of them have heard them live. Contrast this with reports on live concerts and you will see what i mean!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Dec 2006, 20:28

Rajagopal,
One of the reasons why you may find the discussions centered around the vidwans of yesteryear is because many of these maestros are no more, and for people like me, 'hearing' the people on forums like these and listening to a few odd tapes here and there, are the only way we can learn about these men and women: I think it is important to learn about the past, so that we can actually understand where the current crop of artists are coming from, and where they are headed to.
As far as the current artists go, the kutcheri review forum allows for live concert reviews, and CDs, DVDs and VCDs of their performances are available all over the globe these days. I think that these forums should serve to exchange non-copyrighted music of the yesteryears, because, the music of today's artists are commercially available and anyone who is interested should buy the CDs, or go to the concerts and show their support to the art and these artists (i.e.: putting money where ones mouth is) - in that respect, Bharath, Ram, Rajesh and others are doing yeoman's service to the cause of the current artists (I mention these names, because they write about their experiences), and Kji, Kaumaaram, Chambai, RC and others help to let us know the magnificience of the past, and ensure that the rich legacy is not forgotten. And I firmly feel that if anyone feels something is not being done right, demonstrate how it can be changed...Maybe, you should rewrite some of the reviews where you feel that a current artist has been 'put down'.
And, finally, this is a performing art form. And satisfaction (to the rasika) depends on the rasAnubhava, and I don't think one can question another's rasAnubhava. To explain: It is entirely possible that for a said rasika, an artist with a repertoire of 300 songs may have induced a glorious sense of rasAnubhava that another with a repertoire of 800+ can't induce. Now, if that rasika is vocal, and places his opinion in the forum, it may not be malicious, but just his opinion. But, if a current artist's performance induces you to feel that, please share, so that by positive influences, other may also be induced to think favorably. I do not think that you can demand that the people who post should post your views. And this goes for anyone who posts: not all of ones opinions will be accepted by everyone who reads it - and thank god for that, it makes for human beings - so, be prepared to hear some negative remarks, and take it in your stride.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Dec 2006, 20:34

And since this is a forum, where, unless a post is in contravention of the rules, any one can post, and all posts are welcomed, I think that everyone who feels like Rajagopal should post. This is in contrast to needidevadai's post at the head of this topic, where the editor and the management of the print media do have a say on what is written, and how it is presented.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 04 Dec 2006, 20:39

I have had all my questions answered .
Thanks and Amen.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 04 Dec 2006, 21:56

**300 krithis is not a great repertoire,

Compared to the 800+ kritis of some of the modern day stars!

what is important is the number of ways in which they renedered those krithis, as compared to reading 800 kritis with a note book in front.

if you feel some young artists are not discussed please go ahead & start a thread.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Dec 2006, 21:58

It is amusing to follow the musings of 'chennaites' who have the advantage to hear the present day artistes at the drop of a hat. Those of us living abroad especially in remote communities never get to hear/see them perhaps in a lifetime and maybe it will change with the upcoming Internet technology.

Olden times Rsikas were equally vociferous about the 'golden era artistes' but it all remained as 'thiNNai pechchu' rather than getting broadcasted. Most of us would read Kalki/Vikatan/ to hear about the current views on those artistes and their performances. But now those concerts are available online (courtesy of those Rasikas) and we can review them objectively. Many of the present day artistes would not let their performances heard even if recorded (commercial interests?) and hence we could only read the reviews and not discuss objectively.

Just a point regarding Mankkaal. He faded away due to health problem and not because he could not compete with KVN/DKJ..

There is an attitude problem among the present-day-younger artistes. They think of CM as a vocation and as a means to entertaining/earning a reasonable income. The goldenera ones regarded CM as a religion and venerated the art. Times have changed. Younger Rasikas are being inducted into Rasikahood by the older generation and the process is not working well since there is a communicatin gap. The 'old' tea cannot be served in a 'new' cup. We all have change our attitudes. Forums like this are the means of forging the link with the past and preserving traditions while modernizing.

It is a pity many of the oldsters are simply interested in (avariciously) collecting the olden gems than discussing the music/musicians (except some eulogizing anecdotes). The purpose of these Forums is to communicate and discuss which is now sadly lacking

I can understand Hindu being obsessed with a few selected artistes and the fault is ours. If the 'new' artistes are more open minded and if the 'rasikas' cooperate we have an wondeful opportunity to promote understanding and appreciation of CM among our younger geneartions...

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 04 Dec 2006, 21:59

**Internet being used by a few to stake a claim to be a Gnanastha

I see this attitude among some of the posters here and i voice my opinion against that attitude.

you are free to counter the claims in the relevant threads.

needhidevadai · Post by **needhidevadai** » 04 Dec 2006, 22:58

I invite the kind attention of the members of this forum. Needhidevedai may have barged into you just like that but true to its name, it can only speak the truth, even if bitter. So friends, I maintain that THE HINDU is partial. Almost every week you find the reviews,writeups, photos of T M Krishna, Sanjay and Jayashree. As though the music field is devoid of artists other than them!

As true rasikas you cannot turn a blind eye to this "aniyaayam" which is taking place right under your nose...by diverting from the topic of discussion....

needhidevedai will always remind you of the topic.......it will give you the links as proof

T M Krishna's writeups which have appeared in THE HINDU JUST this year!!!!!!

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 560400.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 370600.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 130200.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 590800.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 630600.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 480600.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 190300.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 14/&prd=fr&
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 10/&prd=th&
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 17/&prd=fr&
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 18/&prd=th&
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 27/&prd=fr&
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 05/&prd=th&
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 04/&prd=mp&
www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2006/02/17/chenindx.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 090300.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 890800.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 300300.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 340600.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 250900.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 060300.htm
www.hinduonnet.com/mag/2006/05/14/index.htm
www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2006/07/15/chenindx.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2 ... 630800.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 27/&prd=th&
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2 ... 500100.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2 ... 320100.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2 ... 400800.htm
www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2006/08/18/chenindx.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 660300.htm
www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2006/01/13/chenindx.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 970500.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 480600.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 800300.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 350300.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 680500.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... &prd=fline&
www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2006/10/27/chenindx.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2 ... 020100.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 02/&prd=th&
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 20/&prd=fr&
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2 ... 650100.htm
www.hinduonnet.com/2006/06/04/99hdline.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 7/&prd=mag&

needhidevedai will return with the links of Sanjay and Jayashree soon....but isn't the above proof enough?

The prize for the most corrupt among the critics goes to SVK, hands down. He will write only about Sanjay, T M Krishna, (even if criticism) or any lady artist and ignore all others!

Gowri Ramnarayanan is a staunch Krishna Bhaktha, sometimes she also waxws eloquent about the singer with the name of the character of Mahabharatha who narrated the proceedings in Kurukshetra to blind King Dridhrashtra!

Needhidevadai will not utter falsehood nor it will spare the perpeterators of monopolism in music....yes...monopolism

How? you might ask....here is the answer...

My friends...how do you think that concerts outside Chennai and North America are being fixed? ....by the publicity of the reviews of THE HINDU (Needhidevadai salutes THE HINDU for being so very powerful!) People read online, the reviews of THE HINDU every FRiday and circulate them by e-mail. Thus they have formed a coterie, a group....and that group knows only Sanjay and Krishna...the others are nonexistant. Same with concerts outside Chennai. Every major sabha in Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore and Hyderabad charts out a festival..the artists are Sanjay, Krishna and some toothless and senile oldies, just to fill the slots!

The basis for all this is their reading of the HINDU, which has only these artists week after week, since the organisers have stopped coming to Chennai during music season!

LOts and lots of talented young artists (some of them have gone past the middle age) deserve a USA tour, but because of this monopolism they have not crossed even Guduvanchery! And there is no other way for them except conducting tuitons.....

needhidevadai will return.....

needhidevadai · Post by **needhidevadai** » 04 Dec 2006, 23:25

nadhasudha · Post by **nadhasudha** » 04 Dec 2006, 23:58

Well written needhidevadai!!
I am part of a music organizing group in NA and year after year, it is Sanjay, Krishna,Sowmya,Sudha and Bombay Jayshree. We never get to hear other artists because the North American Sponsor keeps getting these artists. We also get to hear very few instrumentalists. We would love to hear artists like Vijay Siva, Nisha Rajagopal,Carnatica Brothers,Gayathri Venkatraghavan, Vishaka Hari etc but there is never a move to promote fresh talent. We also never get to hear good carnatic vocalists from other states as part of the concert tour of North America, such as Pantula Rama or MS Sheila.
It is not only the organizers who read the Hindu and are influenced, it is also the average carnatic fan that reads the Hindu and is all excited about the artists mentioned there while there are good artists outside of this elite group that are as good or even better but are barely recognized.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Dec 2006, 00:22

Nadasudha,
I have to disagree...Carnatica brothers, and Gayatri Venkataraghavan have had very successful tours of the US. It is tough to get on their schedule because they get booked so much in advance. For small organizations, Sanjay, Krishna, Sudha, Sowmya, and Jaishree have priced themselves out of our league, so we do not get to hear them frequently. We have hosted the Hyderabad Brothers, Hyderabad Sisters, Malladi Brothers, and intrumentalists like Jayanthi, Sashank, Ravi Kiran, and Ganesh-Kumaresh, all with in the last few years. We were even very fortunate to have Vid. Smt. Vedavalli give a lec-dem.
Ravi

needhidevadai · Post by **needhidevadai** » 05 Dec 2006, 01:34

needhidevadai · Post by **needhidevadai** » 05 Dec 2006, 01:40

Mr. rshankar, you are at liberty to make these statements dipped in a mixture of vendakkaai and oil!

but.....when needhidevadai is driving home points, all efforts to mazhuppify aneedhis will fail....pathetically so!!!!

the next step of needhidevadai is to stich posters all over chennai during the music season with all these bare facts....happy viewing music lovers!!!!!

mahesh_narayan · Post by **mahesh_narayan** » 05 Dec 2006, 03:30

Why are you talking in third person?.......Are you a Mogambo fan?.......like 'Mogambo Khush Hua'?

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 05 Dec 2006, 03:42

(nut cases, when they are ignored, tend to go away...)

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 05 Dec 2006, 03:44

This must be the n'th avatAra of the dEvadai

Remember few other avatAras of similar dEvates ealier on sangeetham etc.

All in Jest.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 05 Dec 2006, 04:23

rajagopal wrote:**The whole work of GNB-MDR and Semmangudi being encapsulated in 10-15 tapes apiece !,

That was just a euphemism but the thrust is that those tapes provide enough proof for me.

**300 krithis is not a great repertoire,

Compared to the 800+ kritis of some of the modern day stars!

The flip side of the technology point you made earlier is that in olden days very few concert recordings were made. Perhaps that's why we don't have a large enough list of recordings of old masters. As an example, the MDR list doesn't include the Isamanohari kriti Sri gananAtham bhajare, which was supposed to be one of his favorites.
(Apparently Manakkal seldom allowed any of his concerts to be recorded years ago...what a loss!)

And how come you speak only about quantity, not quality?!

**Rasikas Rejecting Manakkal in favour of DKJ / KVN

Otherwise Manakkal would have been as regular as KVN/DKJ in most concerts right through the eighties and nineties. Where was Manakkal all those years? Wasn't he younger and fitter than he is today? Why wasn't he given chances when he was still singing in the radio etc?

Another rasika has already mentioned a possible reason. Let me add this point: It seems in this field it is not enough that you have vidwat, but you also need to know how to promote yourself. Some are very good at this, some others (like Manakkal) are not. Manakkal has let his music do the talking for him.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 05 Dec 2006, 09:51

hindu's reviews are not above criticism. it is subjective. no doubt.but are there people in the world without subjective opinions? an element of allowance should be given for this.
needhidevathai!
please do not try to stand on a high pedestral and expect people to look up to you for verdicts.
even the original dharmadevathai had to face the wrath of mandavya maharishi. as long as you have an open mind and discuss things in the forum in a cogenial way your comments will be appreciated by rasikas. please do not use the forum for washing somebody's dirty linen and to settle scores or to apply oinment on your wet wounds!

tylerconscious · Post by **tylerconscious** » 05 Dec 2006, 11:48

mr needi/ms needi(if ever justice had a gender)

among the links of tmk and sanjay that you have posted, hardly a handful are articles dedicated to the musicians alone. looks like you have pulled out articles which just mentions their names. if you are talking abt CM today and the present stars, these 2 are among the few names that would come out. So, its pretty obvious that any article talking abt CM would have their names.

Ever looked at the sports page in the hindu? it carries Tendulkars or Pontings name almost every second day. ever thought why?

musicsyndrome · Post by **musicsyndrome** » 05 Dec 2006, 22:56

We all know there r 2 sides 2 a coin [unless it is biased].
Each one has his or her own value judgements. A good rasika does not go by what the newspaper review says. But we do know there are some unfair reviews coz we attend these artist's concerts and can see for ourself the facts and the falacies!! But this doent mean that all the reviews that appear are unfair!!!
As for the people abroad, they usually go by THE HINDU reviews which are sometimes not fair. BUT we can overcome this sort of a syndrome

[the formation of judgements with THE HINDU as the base] by posting fair reviews of the concerts we attend, in this website. This site has been growing on the popularity charts and probably 'we' the 'Rasikas' can post fair views of the concerts that we attend. These reviews can also be checked upon by others [others hear means : rasikas apart from the one who has written the review], by attending the artists concerts again. People all over the world can read these unbiased reviews and can form their opinions or value judgements based on this....

musicsyndrome · Post by **musicsyndrome** » 05 Dec 2006, 23:07

We are actually doing that. But a news paper review is sometimes preffered over that of a Rasikas review just because they are posted formally.... Probably this is just a suggestion that this website can allote a seperate section for writing reviews. These reviews could be directed to the moderaters or a group of specialists devoted to this cause and they can recheck on these reviews and then post them in this website....That way it becomes a formalised procedure and people would view them in a different light. Dont know how far it works... but there is atleast some solution!!!

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 05 Dec 2006, 23:44

This site has been growing on the popularity charts

I suppose then we need to be more careful what we say here...?
Admins - any way we can track how many hits are happening on this site?

needhidevadai · Post by **needhidevadai** » 06 Dec 2006, 00:56

Thanks musicsyndrome. Please visit the above links and verify tylerconscious's statements. Probably a miniscule percentage of them will contain just the names. BTW, I found difficulty in culling out the entire Sanjay's links for the whole year, so I left it at half way!

People who say the truth need not be cautious, they can say it openly with conviction

- needhi

needhidevadai · Post by **needhidevadai** » 06 Dec 2006, 01:02

Dear Tylerconscious,

What will happen if Ponting plays 11 times, bowls all the overs, does the commentary, writes the paper report on the match and presents the trophy? WE don't want such Monopoly and thereby dwindling of public interest in CM.

Monopoly promotes groupism and prejudices.....

Thanks

Needhidevadai

needhidevadai · Post by **needhidevadai** » 06 Dec 2006, 01:12

I am repeating this message in this thread too....

Most of the artists of the modern era are articulate, multifaceted and multitasking. While some of them evn uttering "mmmm" is being splashed in the headlines of THE HINDU, others are
"malai peratuffying" silently, without an iota of recognition. It is 100 times worse than the game Ganguly is playing!!!

The result, the rasikas and organisers are fooled into believing that only 4/5 good artists are there in the field, while there are about 50 great artists, both men and women.

Everyone knows you Mr.TMK, you are an excellent artist, you need not force yourself on the public through your pet daily week after week!!!!

needhi will return....

sangeetarasikan · Post by **sangeetarasikan** » 06 Dec 2006, 08:43

Needhi, you do make some valid points, but your 'spooky' manner is taking away your credibility. I am quite sure that most readers of The Hindu reviews (incl. NRI organizers) would have noticed its bias to certain artistes. But then which individual or newspaper has ever been fully objective? In the US you will notice that many TV channels are owned and run by the political parties (just like Sun and Jaya TV). The bias is that obvious. It is a well-known fact that the people with the maximum PR abilities are the ones who are visible. For every artiste who gets recognized, there are a hundred equally deserving who go unnoticed due to various reasons. This is true of every field, but is most noticeable in the Arts. TMK, B'bay Jayashree, Aruna Sairam, Sudha Raghunathan and Sanjay currently appear to be the best at PR. But then whoever said that life is fair?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Dec 2006, 09:14

Sometimes I wonder If the devathai realises that He/She will end up achieving exactly the opposite of what is trying to be achieved-That is more publicity to this / these artists..

I have never taken the Hindu Reviews seriously ( Ah ! how my mind goes back to the days when the Hindu Sports Columnist used to refer to the Spin quartet when the whole world spoke of only the Spin Trio - Or about Wasim Akram getting Srikanth out with an innocous ball or the pak skipper shielding abdul qadir from Srikanth )

Lack of Justice is something that can only be seen through a prism - and we all have to account for problems arising out of this, at both ends of the debate -
How I wish I had retained the artcle of PV Indiresan in the Hindu a decade ago , while writing on the Cauvery dispute !
If I remember right , He made a case against the Concept of ONE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT POSITION - He gave the example of a village lad discovering an abandoned flute under a tree and went on to pose the question of TO Whom does it Belong ?

To the man who discovered it ?
To the man ho owned it and had lost it ?
To the man on whose property this was discovered ?
To the man who could make best use of It?
To the Man who needed it Most ?
To the man who pledged to serve society with it ?

All this for a small flute.

Needhidevathai , the basic Issue is this
There are very few contenders today for top slots- as simple as that -
and there is a whole world out there still willing to believe that Class is determined in a rarified zone -something that can be represented by a circle with the Music Academy at its centre and distance to Mylapore Fina arts as the radius ..

Let us find out ways of how to avoid concerts with less than 10 members in the audience -in these festivals - Yes i have sat through several of them and even one concert in which I was the ONLY MEMBER IN THE AUDIENCE-
I repeat - I WAS THE ONLY THE MEMBER IN THE AUDIENCE.

Instead of spalshing posters ,have a volunteer group with 50 members ,on a hotline , ready to move into such halls and encourage the artists- You will be making great progress then.

hariharans · Post by **hariharans** » 06 Dec 2006, 15:46

Needhidevadai or Aneedhirakshashi, I dont care. Thanks for providing all the links of these artists which I have been looking for. Keep up the good work.
Regards....

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 06 Dec 2006, 23:15

I think there is a relationship between the names that fill seats and the concets that the newspapers cover.

I think there is a relationship between the names that the newspapers cover and the names that fill seats.

And so on......

Anyone who wants to make a big issue of that is welcome to go quietly bang their head on a wall. Not my wall please....

(But I couldn't help noticing the half-page reviews the Hindu published of its own music series recently. After all the articles it had published promoting said series. But then there's a lot of purely commercial stuff in there, eg promotions of 'exhibition-cum-sale's that sell stuff that I know I can get for 1/3rd the price any time at a state emporium or khadi shop) Hmmm.... better stop my head banging!

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 07 Dec 2006, 05:25

I agree with Hariharans. I'm glad that someone found the time to post these very interesting links. On looking at these links, esp the Sanjay list, it appears that only a few are even about Sanjay.

Needhi, please don't bother returning... What is this self-righteous Scarlet Pimpernel nonsense?

sangeetarasikan · Post by **sangeetarasikan** » 07 Dec 2006, 06:38

Nick has hit the nail on the head. The more the publicity, the more the audience and vice-versa. Simple. Case dismissed!

vsnatarajan · Post by **vsnatarajan** » 26 Dec 2006, 16:33

jsut noticed this thread.

one thing I am very sure after reading Hindu for 30 years, about 20 years of that seriously, page after page.
Hindu is just not driven by any serious journalism, it has its own spooky stands on secularism, politics(remember its time during the emergency days?) and every day news it covers. this includes music too especially during the dec.. season.

atleast the dec season comes once in a year but News!!!. Hindu obviously plays someone's else organ.

but its music reviews after being cross checked with people who attended the concerts were okay almost accurate barring some vested ones. I guess whether in office or in public life or in Music, it is all networking and some people are favoured that is about it. we just have no control over these newspapers.

The NRI's are the life line for our carnatic musicians which helps them sustain this great Art through monetary help. The NRI's should have more listening posts to the ground about what is happening to the Music scene and who are the talented ones and should strive to recognize them. Hope fully this gets done.

As an NRI who prefered to settle back in Chennai and after watching my nieces, nephews, their friends, and many in this generation, who prefer to study and settle outside India, I firmly believe that in the next 25 - 50 years, entire young people(especially from one particular Community( I hate dragging a caste here)) will move awy from the Indian shores and hopefully they take with them this holy Art and spread its roots wherever they go.

by the way, a couple of days, the front page news in Hindu was about P. Chidambaram breaking his toes.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 26 Dec 2006, 18:52

It's happened already!

To borrow your metaphor... the holy art has already had its roots spread worldwide --- by the refugee Sri Lankan Tamil population.

London, the city with the most arrangetrams in the world, outside India. Of course there are Indian-born musicians, teachers, etc in London, but, frankly, without the Sri Lankans, I doubt that there would be more than a few, earning their livings in other professions and following music as a hobby.

Whilst my sympathy is with anyone who is driven from their home, without that great misfortune, I, for one, would never had the opportunity to experience this music as I have.

Please don't misunderstand this post; I am not setting Tamil against Tamil, or India and Sri Lanka --- god forbid anyone should try to make any political intention behind my statement; there is none!

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 26 Dec 2006, 19:56

natarajan,

I firmly believe that in the next 25 - 50 years, entire young people ... will move awy from the Indian shores and hopefully they take with them this holy Art and spread its roots wherever they go.

For people like me belonging to yester - rather day before yester - generation who hold on to this soil tenaciously, such statements are very depressing. There is something sacred about this soil worth fighting for.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 26 Dec 2006, 20:05

Shri Govindan - no need to worry! However much the 'talent drain' to the west, I don't think this will result in the scenario that's being predicted. A visit to a small-town temple will confirm this - you can listen to music of the highest quality from totally unknown youngsters (and oldsters). The more well-known ones may gravitate towards the money in the west, but this is not very different from what's happening in other areas.

vsnatarajan · Post by **vsnatarajan** » 26 Dec 2006, 20:35

vgvindan wrote:natarajan,
I firmly believe that in the next 25 - 50 years, entire young people ... will move awy from the Indian shores and hopefully they take with them this holy Art and spread its roots wherever they go.
For people like me belonging to yester - rather day before yester - generation who hold on to this soil tenaciously, such statements are very depressing. There is something sacred about this soil worth fighting for.

oh yes.

this is the land which all the saints sanctified.
on a personal note, I just came and settled back to be with the temples in Mylapore, Triplicane, Thiruvonmiyur anf ThiruVottiyur.

i will pull through.

My seven year old son asked me a a month before how to get the green card(no jokes). i was taken aback. I just was a bit cynical and fatalistic and melancholous too when I posted the last one.