What are you learning now ?

[Suji Ram]

After going through the "what are you listening now" thread I am opening one on "what are you learning"
I thought this would be a useful thread for learners of CM instrumental/ Vocal.
In this thread members can post what they have been learning. They can post samples of their practice sessions if they wish or ask questions if they need clarification.
As for me I learn by myself usually dabble and have come a long way in the past couple of years.

Right now finished learning cEtah Sri-MD- dwijayanti. The most difficult part in the composition was the begining itself. That RRR corresponding to cEtah Sri is often tough when I start, but coming back to it on repetition I get it fine. How do I get rid of the starting trouble? hmm...

[bilahari]

Nice thread! I'm also wrapping up cEta Sri--for me, decoding the second beautiful sangathi the TNK school plays is proving frustrating. Also, a line here and there in the AP and C are difficult--basically the lines whose sahitya I do not remember well. It is such a beautiful composition though, and is well worth the labour. What problem are you having with the starting RRR, precisely? Is it in setting a consistent kala pramanam? If you get it right on repetition, maybe you can preface the krithi with a short sketchish phrase like R G M P G M R G,, R S,, N D P - cEta Sri? I'm thinking of moving on to mOkSamu galada.

[Suji Ram]

Thanks bilahari for your comments. The right feed back I was looking for! That's a good idea you have given me to start with some phrase.

I think I need a little more practice to get rid of the initial hitch. I tried now starting in the 3rd string rather than second and the shaking on the R is much better.
The rest of the song I got without any problem.
I am following MSS version where she has sung along with her Veena with no percussion. It is a beautiful simple version of cEtah Sri.
How do you manage to follow TNK? I find it difficult following any violinists version. First reason being, I know I sound awful -no comparison. Second I like to hear the lyrics and i'm better at following vocal versions.

Now I am at crossroads deciding which kriti to take up. I find Md's kritis the easiest to learn. Though they seem tough in the begining, the flow becomes easy once the lyrics are etched in the mind.
I am always scared of picking Tyagaraja's kriti. It is the reverse. They sound easy, but turn out to be difficult.
Any easy vocal versions of mOkshamu galada?

[prashant]

Suji - try Nedunuri's version if available.

Just finished bAlakrishNan pAda malar in dhanyAsi and kailAsa nAthEna in kAmbhOji. Now casting around for a new song to learn...

[Rasika911]

Everybody is learning of tapes?
How times have changed

[prashant]

I never claimed to have learnt the above two songs from a tape. Also, in my opinion there is no problem learning songs from a tape if one has adequate guidance to smooth out errors, a good knowledge of the lyric and rAgasvarUpa, and sufficient confidence and conviction in one's individual style to 'learn' the song and not 'imitate' the song.

[bilahari]

Suji, by third string, do you mean the A or D string? I play the Rs on the A string (madhya sa string), with the following gamakas: the first R, I play plain. The second, I oscillate with the shadjam beneath. The third, I slide down from G3. I use two or three recordings to learn (for cEta Sri, I used SSI, KVN, Sriram Krishnan), and found Sriram's rendition the easiest to learn from since he plays the gamakas very clearly. In any vocal rendition, I have to contend with the overlap of the voice and violin with the mrudangam in the background, so I often don't get a good sense of the ornamentation, though I first use a vocal rendition to learn the sahitya as well as I can. Then I learn the swara/technical aspects from a violin rendition (I find TNK school easiest since the renditions are sparse and clean; LGJ plays a lot of difficult sangathis that I can't catch while MSG isn't always very chaste to the sahitya). The vocal renditions I use are usually MSS/KVN.

For mOkSamu galada, I think Nedunuri sings it very clearly, and Santhanam too is a good one. I really love LGJ's and TNK's renditions of the krithi, but LGJ's is once again a bit hard to follow.

Do you all obtain any set notation and then progress from there, or do you write your own notation from a rendition of your choice, or do you not use a notation at all? I like to start out with a notation in hand as a rough guide, but I'm quite particular about writing a good notation taking particular care with tala, because I like to have an accurate notation to refer to when I return to the same krithi some time after learning it. Otherwise, I tend to forget nuances. However, I still haven't found a consistent way of notating and remembering some special gamakas.

[bilahari]

Also, Suji, my own god-awfulness has never stopped me from learning from the greats!! More than my learning their techniques from their recordings, I gain an appreciation for their art

[prashant]

Do you all obtain any set notation and then progress from there, or do you write your own notation from a rendition of your choice, or do you not use a notation at all? I like to start out with a notation in hand as a rough guide, but I'm quite particular about writing a good notation taking particular care with tala, because I like to have an accurate notation to refer to when I return to the same krithi some time after learning it. Otherwise, I tend to forget nuances. However, I still haven't found a consistent way of notating and remembering some special gamakas.

I write notations for most krithis - it helps me get into the details, focus on word splitting, special prayogas etc. I have my own 'sign-conventions' that I use. It's not terribly lucid, but it works for me. I find that once I am done writing a notation, I am about 80% done with my preparation for a krithis - the balance 20% is the hardest though - I have to remember and internalize during practice. Some krithis, however, have left me stumped and I have been unable to write notations for them - I just have to trust my memory [examples: dakshiNAmUrtE, Sami entani delpudurA - suraTi varNam etc.].

[rajesh_rs]

Nice thread. I have been teaching myself guitar and carnatic music for the past couple of years.

I spent a couple of days last week learning some of the charanams of Endaro Mahanubhavulu.

My resources are a TM Krishna recital of the song from a relatively recent concert and the following link:

http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/Homepages/shivk ... lu-new.htm

I found Shivkumar's website a great resource.

Unfortunately I currently lack the skill to play the 8th and subsequent charanams. I'm happy about having pulled off the 7th - the "Parama Bhagavata Mouni..." charanam. Try as I might, I am stuck at the first paadam on the next one. Hope to get over this. I find this krithi quite energizing.

[arasi]

Suji,
A great thread! You and Bilahari are a dynamic duo and your enthusiasm will help other learners. Makes good reading for others too.

Prashant,
bAlakrishNan pAda malar (one of my top ten PS krutis), is tough to top, but if you are casting... Just a nudge...

[s_hari]

Thanks to prashant & arasi on balakrishnan. I am hearing it now DKJ version. Apt choice, that too when janmastami is round the corner

-hari

[Suji Ram]

Bilahari,
I was referring to D string. I too was going by A string initially.
Your SSI version is spot on in the way he starts cEtah Sri . MSS shakes all of the R's at the start itself. May be I should follow SSi for the begining sangati.

I remember one of my practice sessions where I pretended to play along "bhavanuta" by MSG. I'm not even a bacteria in front of those greats. May be a virus!

Prashant thanks for pointing NK 's version. I found several in s priya site.

rajesh-rs, I too like TMK renditions of pancharatna kritis. Learnt duduku gala- stuck with the last part -the ending- What a gaula gem this is!

[arunk]

I am on break (teacher out of town). I should be using this time to brush up the stuff I learnt (actually fix the many mistakes I still commit) but ....

When I find mood, I try to brush a varnam - as I find most trouble with them. The last one I try occasionally is sarasuDa. The krithi - nijamaitE (bhairavi).

Arun

[srinivasrgvn]

-

[sathya_vrathan]

now im learning dAsarathim apAra krupa a composition of tachur singarAchAryulu in nAtakurinji with excellent chittaswarams. great stuff!!!

[sathya_vrathan]

generally i feel karaharapriya raga is easier in veena than other ragams like kalyani or todi since the gamakams are lesser in karaharapriya compared to other ragas. that too krithis like samAnamevaru and chakkani rAja (when we understand the notation and lyrics) are easier when compared to nadachi nadachi or chethulara(if sung in karaharapriya)

[CarnaticMuse]

I am learning Dikshitar's krithi sri kAntimatIm in hemavati. I don't have a recording to learn from, but the song is etched in my mind as it was my aunt's favorite song and I heard it a lot when I was growing up . She used to sing it slowly in rettakalai with a lot devotion and to get that feeling into my veena is a goal for me.

I have not heard any recordings of this song by professional artists, would appreciate any pointers.

[Suji Ram]

Sri kantimathim
try TMK... must be available on sangeeta priya. I learnt his version.
MSS, SSi are available too, but I liked TMK's for easy learning

[srinivasrgvn]

-

[Rasika911]

Do you all obtain any set notation and then progress from there, or do you write your own notation from a rendition of your choice, or do you not use a notation at all? I like to start out with a notation in hand as a rough guide, but I'm quite particular about writing a good notation taking particular care with tala, because I like to have an accurate notation to refer to when I return to the same krithi some time after learning it. Otherwise, I tend to forget nuances. However, I still haven't found a consistent way of notating and remembering some special gamakas.

I write notations for most krithis - it helps me get into the details, focus on word splitting, special prayogas etc. I have my own 'sign-conventions' that I use. It's not terribly lucid, but it works for me. I find that once I am done writing a notation, I am about 80% done with my preparation for a krithis - the balance 20% is the hardest though - I have to remember and internalize during practice. Some krithis, however, have left me stumped and I have been unable to write notations for them - I just have to trust my memory [examples: dakshiNAmUrtE, Sami entani delpudurA - suraTi varNam etc.].

Did u learn Sami entani delpudurA - suraTi varNam from a tape? If so can i request for a copy of your source. This is an outstanding varnam.

When i do learn a song from a tape i tend to listen to as many renditions as possible and pick out sangathis that are like + the commonly sung sangathis then work on singing the composition in my style instead of mimicking the sources i have learnt from.

[thenpaanan]

Do you all obtain any set notation and then progress from there, or do you write your own notation from a rendition of your choice, or do you not use a notation at all? I like to start out with a notation in hand as a rough guide, but I'm quite particular about writing a good notation taking particular care with tala, because I like to have an accurate notation to refer to when I return to the same krithi some time after learning it. Otherwise, I tend to forget nuances. However, I still haven't found a consistent way of notating and remembering some special gamakas.

I write notations for most krithis - it helps me get into the details, focus on word splitting, special prayogas etc. I have my own 'sign-conventions' that I use. It's not terribly lucid, but it works for me. I find that once I am done writing a notation, I am about 80% done with my preparation for a krithis - the balance 20% is the hardest though - I have to remember and internalize during practice. Some krithis, however, have left me stumped and I have been unable to write notations for them - I just have to trust my memory [examples: dakshiNAmUrtE, Sami entani delpudurA - suraTi varNam etc.].

Prashant,

Could you share with us any special "tricks" you use for notating kritis for personal use? I use personal notations quite a bit but over the years my system has tended to wander a lot and become less useful than it could have been. (In other words, i cannot understand my own notations from many years ago.)

For my part I like to divide the horizontal line into specific fixed length intervals according to the talam, this helps me fix the rhythm of the song in my mind. This has the very unfortunate side-effect that sometimes I have to squeeze in many many words into a small space especially in MD kritis when the kriti goes into a fast phrase in the middle of the line. My friends who use the more common way of notating, which is to write with uniform spacing, has its own problem that a line of the kriti will fully fit on one line first and slowly keep growing in length as the sangatis get richer and richer until a single line of the kriti runs into several lines in your notebook. Think of notating a kriti like vAtApi gaNapatim and you will get the right angle triangle of notation by the sixth or seventh sangati of the pallavi :0).

-Then Paanan

[prashant]

Did u learn Sami entani delpudurA - suraTi varNam from a tape? If so can i request for a copy of your source. This is an outstanding varnam.

Sorry, Rasika911, I learnt this varNa from my Guru and don't have a 'source tape'.

[ppraghu]

If I may be allowed to share what I am learning now in the flute (and how)....

I am abroad (NZ) last 2 years (away from my flute Guru) and will be here for another couple of years. So I have to rely upon the recordings from Sangeethapriya and few other sites until I get back to India. I would select a keerthanam to learn, hunt for it in the "mp3-formatted" flute kutcheries (and a couple of vocal mp3s to go along with it, to get the sahithyam right), put all of them in my MP3 player, listen to those mp3s wherever I go. After listening those recordings several times, I would write down the swara notations. Each one would take typically 1-2 month to complete. Some of the keerthanams that I have thus learnt in the last one year are: "Bhavayami Raghuramam" (Ragamalika - B N Suresh Flute, MDR Vocal), "Sriman Narayana" (Bowli - Sikkil Mala Chandrasekhar Flute, MSS Vocal), "Gopalaka Pahimam" (Revagupti - KSG / Shashank Flute, Neyyatinkara Vasudevan, KVN Vocal).

Recently, I started putting my hands on learning the kalpanaswarams (What a paradox! "Learning the kalpanaswarams!!"). Thus far, I have "finished" learning Hamsadhwani Adi (for "VathApi" at "Pranava SwarUpa" eduppu), Malayamarutham Roopakam (for "ManasA etulo" at "Kalilo rAjasa" eduppu) and Bilahari Khanda Chappu (for "Paridanamichithe" at "Rokkamichutakune" eduppu).

I would download all possible vocal (no flute) MP3s that have kalpanaswarams in the same raga / same thala, extract the swaravistharams alone using Audacity (sometimes, change them to a slow tempo), and put the output MP3s in my player. I probably may have listened to the entire collection of each Raga for about 100-200 times. Having no prior knowledge of how different students might have mastered the art of Kalpanaswarams, my approach was to write down all 1- & 2- speed swarams that the singers would sing, some times applying my own "kalpana". I would sing those at home, then take them in flute. It was a real roller-coaster ride. But the very interesting thing was to listen to and compare how great musicians (GNB, MDR, SSI, KVN, TKR etc etc) would sing the swarams of same raga/thala and with variety!!!

(If anybody is interested, I can post the vocal "swaravistharam cuts" of these ragams that I have collected so far of famous musicians - around 15-20 nos. for each ragam.)

My family thinks that I am crazy!!!

Regards
Raghu

[VK RAMAN]

Good luck Raghu at NZ

[vasanthakokilam]

thenpaanan, I understand the notational difficulty. If it is only a problem with the sahitya length then you can consider writing them on multiple lines for just those portions keeping your fixed width method. You may have to do that with swaras also. If that would not work in practice, then pick the mean length of the sangathi lines as your fixed width and write in higher font for the shorter length ones and smaller font for longer length ones.

Of course, if you do this on a computer, it is much easier to adjust the font sizes and line things up properly. There is a digital pen available which may be of help here. It uses regular ink but also has an infra-red transmitter. There is a little receiver that you clip on to the notepad. It can transcribe it to text which you can later edit and adjust the font size. Here is one such product: http://www.iogear.com/product/GPEN200N/ ( there may be other less expensive ones )

[vasanthakokilam]

Raghu: Thanks for sharing your method. That sounds like a solid plan and the amount of work you put into the sadakam is quite impressive. The fact that you can write swaras from the song is a great skill. You can also try adopting msakella's scheme for gamakas. After everything is said and done, playing from the written swaras is only a guideline, a great resource nonetheless. If you do not focus on the song but just play the swaras written down, it sounds quite different, doesn't it? The way the melody is sculpted over the sahitya can only be captured by trying to play the song itself rather than the individual swaras.

On kalpanaswaram, what I find is, it is not that difficult to play the swaras with raga swaroopa with full manodharma and without any pre-planning. But a lot of learning and practice is required for getting the structure of the laya. As msakella rightly says, control of the laya gives one the necessary confidence in presenting the kalpanaswarms.

I am interested in your "swaravistharam cuts". Please post.

[srikant1987]

I have looked into yadukula kAmbhoji svarajati and munduvenaka (MSS and TRV). I plan to look into durusuga. I had an MSS version and a Dr S Ramanathan version, of which the latter was incomplete, but still I liked it more. I lost them, and have now downloaded Smt Sowmya's (as she's from Dr Ramanathan's school). MSS version doesn't have svarasAhityam, that could be one reason I prefer this.

After this I will probably look into innALu daya rAkunna vunnadEmi (narayana gowlai) by Smt Seetha Rajan.

[ppraghu]

Raghu: Thanks for sharing your method. That sounds like a solid plan and the amount of work you put into the sadakam is quite impressive. The fact that you can write swaras from the song is a great skill. You can also try adopting msakella's scheme for gamakas. After everything is said and done, playing from the written swaras is only a guideline, a great resource nonetheless. If you do not focus on the song but just play the swaras written down, it sounds quite different, doesn't it? The way the melody is sculpted over the sahitya can only be captured by trying to play the song itself rather than the individual swaras.

On kalpanaswaram, what I find is, it is not that difficult to play the swaras with raga swaroopa with full manodharma and without any pre-planning. But a lot of learning and practice is required for getting the structure of the laya. As msakella rightly says, control of the laya gives one the necessary confidence in presenting the kalpanaswarms.

I am interested in your "swaravistharam cuts". Please post.

Thank you very much for the encouragement, Vasanthakokilam. I am glad I am on the right track (or, at least, one of the so many right tracks).

I can write swaras of songs only if (1) it is flute music (2) I know the raga scale (including bhAshAnga swaras) and (3) I know the krithi very well. On the other hand, I would take my life time to decode a flute bit from a film music if the song does not follow a specific raga.

I will post the swara cuts in esnips within a couple of days time.

Regards
Raghu

[ppraghu]

Good luck Raghu at NZ

Thanks V K Raman.

Regards
Raghu

[vainika]

My friends who use the more common way of notating, which is to write with uniform spacing, has its own problem that a line of the kriti will fully fit on one line first and slowly keep growing in length as the sangatis get richer and richer until a single line of the kriti runs into several lines in your notebook. Think of notating a kriti like vAtApi gaNapatim and you will get the right angle triangle of notation by the sixth or seventh sangati of the pallavi :0).
-Then Paanan

LOL at the imagery. Looks like you are the one who is trikONa madhyagatam here...

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, ppraghu, Accidentally I have gone through your post and I like your inquisitiveness in learning the things of our music. To sing or play kalpanaswarams the most important ingredient is the control over rhythm. In general, many respond positively to Chaturashra-nadai but not to Trisra-nadai. Unless the aspirant responds positively for both Chaturashra and Trisra-nadais he cannot proceed further efficiently and gets stranded at one point or other. To assess the instinctive ability of the aspirant and also to increase his ability in this respect there are some rhythmical exercises. And depending upon your ability for regular practice of these things it takes its own time to get good acquaintance with all these things. In general, any aspirant who wants to make kalpanaswaras on his own will certainly become able to do so within a span of maximum 3 months if he responds positively to both Chaturashra and Trisra-nadais and works hard regularly. If you are interested you can speak to my ID ‘msakella’ (as I prefer to speak than chat) either on Yahoo Messenger or Skype around 7 am or 8 pm (IST) on any day according to your convenience. amsharma

[ppraghu]

I have looked into yadukula kAmbhoji svarajati and munduvenaka (MSS and TRV). I plan to look into durusuga. I had an MSS version and a Dr S Ramanathan version, of which the latter was incomplete, but still I liked it more. I lost them, and have now downloaded Smt Sowmya's (as she's from Dr Ramanathan's school). MSS version doesn't have svarasAhityam, that could be one reason I prefer this.

After this I will probably look into innALu daya rAkunna vunnadEmi (narayana gowlai) by Smt Seetha Rajan.

Srikant, not sure if this completely deviates from what you asked for - if so, apologies.

Have you heard the MDR's singing of Munduvenaka in Sangeetha Priya? Due to his slow pace of rendering the song, it may be quite an interesting experience to learn from this recording. Personally, I felt that it is really a mesmerizing experience to "try" singing along with an MDR recording - especially certain ragas like Durbar, Y. Kamboji, Ritigowla etc.

Regards
Raghu

[ppraghu]

Dear brother-member, ppraghu, Accidentally I have gone through your post and I like your inquisitiveness in learning the things of our music. To sing or play kalpanaswarams the most important ingredient is the control over rhythm. In general, many respond positively to Chaturashra-nadai but not to Trisra-nadai. Unless the aspirant responds positively for both Chaturashra and Trisra-nadais he cannot proceed further efficiently and gets stranded at one point or other. To assess the instinctive ability of the aspirant and also to increase his ability in this respect there are some rhythmical exercises. And depending upon your ability for regular practice of these things it takes its own time to get good acquaintance with all these things. In general, any aspirant who wants to make kalpanaswaras on his own will certainly become able to do so within a span of maximum 3 months if he responds positively to both Chaturashra and Trisra-nadais and works hard regularly. If you are interested you can speak to my ID ‘msakella’ (as I prefer to speak than chat) either on Yahoo Messenger or Skype around 7 am or 8 pm (IST) on any day according to your convenience. amsharma

Dear Guru A M Sharma, I really really appreciate your willingness to help me in this matter. I would like to fix up a meeting with you on a weekend at 7AM IST suitable to both of us. Please bear with me for next 2 weeks as I am involved in a local "Kerala" festival event which is scheduled to happen in Sept first weekend. I will get in touch with you in the second week of Sept. Thank you very much.

Regards
Raghu

[srikant1987]

@ ppraghu

MDR usually includes some spontaneous flourishes which makes things difficult to learn from his recordings. But I will listen to his munduvenaka since you recommended it.

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, ppraghu, You are welcome. amsharma

[HarishankarK]

Am learning Saradhe veena vadana visharadhe - Devagandhari - Papanasam Sivan song from Sri D.K Jayaraman's casette.
We are going to Sringeri this weekend and i hope to sing it there.

Before this i completed learning Arivaar Yaar unnai Arivaar (Mukhari and Aurnachala Kaviraayar) from Gayathri Venkataraghavan's version (downloaded from Sangeethapriya).

[rajesh_rs]

Maharajapuram Santhanam's 'shrI kanthimathIm' is the best ever. And, it is easy to learn. It is available in Sangeethapriya.

Absolutely true. That is the sound of Hemavathi I remember.

[rajesh_rs]

I'm learning Nanati Baduku in Revati and also bits of Thaye Yashoda in Thodi from Chembai's rendition as well as from one of Yesudas'. I haven't been helped by the violinist in the Yesudas rendition but KJY himself is stunning in this rendition. This is on Sangeethapriya. Since I play guitar I found the gamakas difficult in Thodi, especially for the fast phrases. Revati is such an atmospheric ragam, I found myself practising it for hours each day and for days on end. I'm helped by a brilliant RTP (Mathangi Marakatangi Maheshwari) in Revati by Balamuralikrishna. The bit where he goes into "Samavedic" chants is awesome. Revati is a divine-sounding ragam and I'd rank it among my favourites.

[bilahari]

MDR is almost impossible to learn from... I just listen to him entranced, sigh at the end and exclaim that there will never be another like him.

[Suji Ram]

Revati is a divine-sounding ragam and I'd rank it among my favourites.

I learnt mahAdEva Siva ShambO and play it endlessly too..

[vasanthakokilam]

OK, let us talk about revathi for a second. Do you all agree with the following?

1) The scale itself gives the raga swaroopa in good measure.
2) After that, it is the kArvai in the right places that adds to the raga identity
3) It is relatively easy to learn songs in this raga.

I know item 3 is a bit bold, but my question for you all who learn songs from recorded material, when do you consider it as done? When you got every little nuance of the song, or the over all structure of it and then you then sing/play it on your own.

As a case study, Consider this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyaBxk1fxd4

How long will it take you to play this on an instrument? ( assume you do not have a good conception of the song before, even if you had heard it before )

5 minutes, 10 minutes, an hour, 10 hours, a day, multiple days?

You can answer it using multiple criteria. Get the basic structure of the song and play it to the extent that someone else who knows the song will know that you are playing that song or get to play it with the exact intricacies ( neLivu suLivu ) used by MSS so it is a close replica.

[Suji Ram]

In short, talent=desire=hard work
If we go in that order we can learn faster.

Usually when I pick a song to learn, the way it goes for me is like this-

On the first day, even playing the first few lines somewhat Ok gives a special thrill. I look at the scale of the raga and try to play around it what ever I hear. Within three days I feel I got the whole song and start playing endlessly thinking I have got it. After a week I realize few mistakes and fix it, only to realize after couple of more weeks how horrible I sound compared to the original. That's when my rigorous practice starts trying to understand the raga swaroopa, the jarus, gamakas and special effects. Overall a month is what I take for a kriti in "moderate to difficult raga category" to fix it. Now I don't know how good that is. Can I trust my neighborhood mAmi who said this was good?

However, the more I practice, the more I have begun to shrink the time-frame in learning a kriti. For eg: a year back I thought it is impossible for me to learn "Sri varalakshmi in Sri ragam , but I learnt it in 2 weeks recently.

Will get back to rEvati later.

[ppraghu]

On the first day, even playing the first few lines somewhat Ok gives a special thrill. I look at the scale of the raga and try to play around it what ever I hear. Within three days I feel I got the whole song and start playing endlessly thinking I have got it. After a week I realize few mistakes and fix it, only to realize after couple of more weeks how horrible I sound compared to the original.

How close my experience is!!! Same here. I would think I mastered the kriti. Then my wife would say my playing was not at all close to that of the original player. Then I have to "re-decode" several of the sangathis. These days, I record my own practice with Audacity, listen to it and criticize it as if it was somebody else playing!!

Interestingly, the worst experience was when I started learning Mahadeva Sivasambho (Revathi - from Sikkil Sisters Flute mp3 and DKJ vocal) - taking the transition from R1 to M1 (and vice versa) had been (and to me, still is!) a nightmare in flute.

Regards
Raghu

[Aishu]

I just finished learning a song by Gopalakrishna Bharati in ragam Syama. My first Tamil song called "Chidambaram poi neer varum ayya". It is actually from the Nanadanar Charitam. Loved the song and thoroughly enjoyed playing it on the violin. Also finished the Ata Talam varnam in Amritavarshini ragam.

[rajesh_rs]

On the first day, even playing the first few lines somewhat Ok gives a special thrill. I look at the scale of the raga and try to play around it what ever I hear. Within three days I feel I got the whole song and start playing endlessly thinking I have got it. After a week I realize few mistakes and fix it, only to realize after couple of more weeks how horrible I sound compared to the original.

How close my experience is!!! Same here. I would think I mastered the kriti. Then my wife would say my playing was not at all close to that of the original player. Then I have to "re-decode" several of the sangathis. These days, I record my own practice with Audacity, listen to it and criticize it as if it was somebody else playing!!

Interestingly, the worst experience was when I started learning Mahadeva Sivasambho (Revathi - from Sikkil Sisters Flute mp3 and DKJ vocal) - taking the transition from R1 to M1 (and vice versa) had been (and to me, still is!) a nightmare in flute.

Regards
Raghu

Very true.

And with me, the trouble is that I can never reconcile one rendition I know for another one - but it is rather childish when I examine it. I was listening to T M Krishna's rendition of Shri Neelotpala Nayike (Naari Reetigowla, which is like an amalgam of Natabhairavi and Reetigowla but different from both) and was so obsessed with it that I listened to it for about a couple of weeks. I had most of the sangathis memorized, and had a fair idea of the raga as TMK performed it. This was last year. A month ago, I came across a BMK rendition of the same song, except in Reetigowla. My initial listening disappointed me because this version didn't capture the gentle aesthetics of TMK's rendition. Later, the more I listened to BMK's rendition, the more I found I liked his Reetigowla. Although I still (attempt to) play Shri Neelotpala Nayike with Naari Reetigowla (the use of D1 being the pronounced difference with Reetigowla) I tend to like Reetigowla as a raga much more in general, so I gravitate to BMK's rendition when I play Reetigowla, but when I get to the lyrics, I am faced with the Naari Reetigowla "dissonance". [:D]

[Rasika911]

Also finished the Ata Talam varnam in Amritavarshini ragam.

Nice, who is the composer?

[Suji Ram]

I did learn SrI nIlOtpala-nArirItigowla from TMK's version
And hemAvati too. I can't go back and learn the santhanam's version even if it sounds so good!

[vasanthakokilam]

Aishu: You are the best person I can direct this question to. In another thread we are discussing plain notes vs gamaka laden notes. Invariably, that leads to a comparison of western music vs carnatic music on the use of plain notes. Over the week end, I saw some kids' violin, viola, cello performance. They all have learnt using the Suzuki method. I can clearly see that they shake a note or two here and there, especially as they play long resting notes. What are your views on that kind of a 'shake' of notes used in Western music as compared to a similar gamaka in carnatic music. In learning the two systems, is there any cross-over in technique, for good or bad?

[Aishu]

VK,
This "shake" of the note that you are referring to is called the vibrato. I use this technique extensively in both my Jazz playing and my Carnatic playing. As you mentioned, the vibrato becomes deeper and more pronounced during the longer notes. This holds true in Carnatic music also. As you are aware, there is no gamaka system in the Western style of violin playing. I believe this is because of the violin hold. Western violin playing requires much strength in the arm to hold the instrument up. This leaves very little room for sliding a note. However, in the Indian technique with the scroll on the foot, slides are possible without the violin slipping. I have seen some of the master violinists, my teacher included use the vibrato to enhance their playing. I hope this answers your question.