Gradual (sliding) changes of tempo in Carnatic music?

[ninanan]

Hello,

In Carnatic music, has anybody used a gradual change in tempo such as in this rendering:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A31fZLeSok ?

If it is not used in CM, why not?

Nina

[Nick H]

Changes of tempo are allowed in western music. Even Hindustani musicians speed up, but, at least in principle, in Carnatic music it is not permitted.

Why not? I have no idea!

[veeyens3]

In bathroom concerts this is more a rule than an exception

[mohan]

Some artists will increase the tempo of the charanam section of a krithi eg in Raghuvamsa sudha (kadanakuthuhalam).

[mahavishnu]

It is very interesting that tempo changes are not encouraged in classical CM; perhaps it is too bhajan-esque?

For some reason, tempo variations are much less developed in this system, compared to the evolution of the most sophisticated rhythmic structure and intricate algebra involved in kuraippus, thirmAnams and kOrvais with nadai, jAti and gati variations. But in all of this, the ideal we strive for is the maintenance of constancy in kAlapramAnam (within physical limitations).

But Ninanan: I would like to thank you for that Nana Mouskouri clip. I have not heard her music in over 20 years.

[arasi]

I think she's remarkable! A career spanning over half a century! I remember her from Eurovision and the BBC days. When she was young, she looked serious and her glasses made her look studious--but she sang better than all her mod looking peers! I've heard her here and there during the past decades and she sounds best in french, at least to me.

Tempo changing happens in CM too (as you and Mohan point out), but not that much. NaDai is where I see it most and I like it. Happened in a few of my songs and I'm happy about it.

[vasanthakokilam]

What is the definition of tempo change? Change in beat interval? That is how I usually interpret it. Based on this definition, Chandrachuda ( ragamalika ) the change towards the end counts. An example rendition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-xWOUrbPiU starting at 6:27 , the nadai changes along with the change in beat interval. That will be a tempo change by this definition.

The other variety of change consisting of mel kAlam, kIzh kAlam, Tisram, kandam etc. do not constitute tempo change since the beat interval does not change, they only pack more or less swaras into the same beat interval.

BTW, I just skimmed through the youtube link provided by the OP. Can one of you point to the times where the gradual change in tempo happens? Thanks.

[ninanan]

An example rendition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-xWOUrbPiU starting at 6:27 , the nadai changes along with the change in beat interval

This is a sudden (rather than continuous) change between two segments of a song (not within a single segment) that more or less corresponds to a continuous change of tempo at 1.27 and 2.27 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A31fZLeSok .

the youtube link provided by the OP. Can one of you point to the times where the gradual change in tempo happens?

at 0.40, 1.01, 1.23, 1.49, 2.10, 2.32, 2.59

On a psychological level the continuous (rather than stepping up or stepping down) speeding up or slowing down is a very powerful means of communicating the emotional components in a song.

[vasanthakokilam]

ninanan, thanks.. I get what you are saying.

May be viruththam is one place where the artists can try such a thing and see if it works in the CM context. I think it can be made to work with good results.

Even in a regular krithi ( in the flourish after a P, AP or C ) or RTP, CM artists can create those effects ( an illusion of slowing down or speeding up ) while still keeping the beat interval/tempo the same. This following example is not quite the same as in that video, but I always felt in Kripayapalayachowre, the first part of the charanam has a more leisurely pace and then it picks up momentum in a smooth way. This is all done without changing the tempo. Just a thought..

[Nick H]

Speed may be changed in Carnatic music only according to maths. Thus it becomes a matter of discipline rather than of expression. Again, I have no idea why this is, and if anyone can provide a clue to the basis/history.

We can understand the theory and/or the rules (are they necessarily the same thing?) but they are not the same as the perception. Put aside knowledge and definitions, and we hear the spead/tempo/whatever change as the artist proceeds through different (reintroduce definitions) speeds (first, second, third...) or nadais (tisra, khanda...)

[mahavishnu]

VK: Yes, I believe intentional interval variation is a good definition of tempo change. And barring a few examples, like the nice one you provided, this practice is quite uncommon.

Even nadai/gati variations with the same interval seem to rub some people the wrong way (as in the OVK discussions and Sri Ravikiran's wonderful explanations for them).

[vasanthakokilam]

Mahavishnu, understood. Good and valid points.

There is a generalization of this topic, namely, "use of layam for expressing bhAvam". I think that is pretty much within the lakshaNa and lakshaya of CM. OVK compositions are full of that. Madhyamakala passages of MD and OVK are excellent vehicles of different emotions and bhAva.

Tactical and local variations in laya of landing on a beat and then taking off on an off-beat locations are standard tools of vaggeyakaras for conveying bhAva. And so are tasteful deployment of kArvais and silences. All these lakshayas can be accomplished within the CM lakshaNa of constant tempo. In fact, many compositions exhibit constantly varying speed over a background of constant tempo. In fact, that is what gives a composition that CM feel.

The dictim 'laya pitha' is commonly interpreted to mean 'unchanging kAlapramANam'. I do not think that is necessarily correct, I think it just means 'do not willy nilly be unmindful of your kAlapramANam'. But even assuming ''unchanging kAlapramANam' as a CM lakshaNa, I do not think that lakshaNa precludes a particular composition from exhibiting contrasting 'Compression and Rarefaction' type of laya that is seen in that Nana Mouskouri piece. One can always use prayOga layam that crosses thala beat boundaries to create that effect. In general, tactically, prayOga layam can intersect with the thala in interesting ways. People call this 'cross rhythm'. We see this in dance in a standardized idiomatic way.

So we can say that it is not the LakshaNa restriction but the overt and frequent use of such things as seen in that Mouskouri piece are not typically seen in the current ( and possibly past ) generation lakshayA of CM. But that can change.

[Nick H]

The insertion of a cycle or two of raga is not a million miles away from this (the original Nana example) sort of effect

[thenpaanan]

Changes of tempo are allowed in western music. Even Hindustani musicians speed up, but, at least in principle, in Carnatic music it is not permitted.

Why not? I have no idea!

I presume we are talking about incremental change in the kAlapramANa or pace, not multiplicative changes (keezhkAlam/mElkAlama etc). The theory does not permit it but the reality is different. All kinds of speed ups and downs happen. Speeding up is more common -- usually in the course of neraval and very often in the course of swaraprastharam, when switching from one kAlam to the next higher. In yesteryears (i.e. the GNB generation) when speed was very much the fashion, you could sense that the speed would abruptly move up (and even the "greats" would do this). This is because much more than the kriti the neraval and swaraprasthAram are primary vehicles for the musicians as a team to demonstrate their virtuosity and so they will invariably choose the speed that is to their advantage. If a kriti is not amenable to that speed (e.g. a slow Dikshitar kriti) they will likely sing the main kriti in that speed and switch. You can check this in any number of recordings -- just check the speed of the kriti after the swaraprastharam is finished and the kriti is returned to -- this speed will be significantly different from what it was before the swaraprastharam.

Sometimes this happens in thaniAvartanam as well -- the lead musician might have chosen a kAlapramANam suitable to the composition, not to a thani and very very few mridangam vidwans historically have had the ability to make a thani pleasing at any kAlapramANam. I have come across only one instance where the speed up was intentional -- in a Ravikiran chitraveeNA concert in Boston decades ago the main artist sensed that the audience was getting lulled into sleep and the chosen kriti was a slow one, so Ravikiran asked the vidwan to speed up during the thani by sign language and the thani was played at a faster pace. To keep the integrity of the song (I think), when the thani ended the kriti refrain was not picked up again (it would have been at a much faster pace than original) and the piece ended there. I remember the audience being befuddled by it at the end.

Even in WCM, speed is not absolutely constant. It can go up and down (within bounds) within a piece, which is technically supposed to be in one pace. In large orchestral pieces where the conductor's baton is the absolute marker for speed, conductors have absolute control over the pace. I once read that Herbert von Karajan dismissed some other conductor (Solti, perhaps? I cannot recall precisely) as being "too metronomic" which I presume means that Karajan believed in slowing down or speeding up as the aesthetics demanded. Of course, this also happens in HCM -- sometimes the tabaliya speeds up things or the khayaliya does and things get very interesting when the two are not in sync.

I asked a concert mridanga vidwan about metronomic playing. His opinion was that metronomic playing (i.e. playing at an absolutely fixed speed) will not sound as pretty ("shObhikkAdu") because he claimed "all mridangam players know when to instinctively slow down or speed up according to the main artist". When a singer is singing a briga-laden passage the pace slows down a miniscule amount and vice-versa for slow meandering passages. The claim is that when all the players in the team do it together you never perceive the changes in pace since the average listener tends to keep a relative beat in his/her head.

As far as I have known I have only heard MDR consciously slow down affairs in the middle of a kriti. There are many examples in the available recordings -- some tiny and a couple that are quite noticeable. There are a few instances I have heard where MDR seems to slow things down after the violinists turn, as if to make a point (perhaps this was frustrating to the accompanists, I don't know). In the contemporary set of musicians, one of the concert reviews on this forum of TMKrishna mentioned an instance where TMK slowed down further an already slow rendition of a Dikshitar kriti.

But speeding up is the overwhelming preference (why, I wonder). This is more universal than we think. Drummers in pop music are known to speed things up unconsciously but persistently.

So where does that leave us with the theory? As the great T Viswa said (paraphrase) "sometimes the practice of carnatic music comes much before the theory." I believe the theory of kAlapramANa in carnatic music (even in its rudimentary form) has not yet found a way to systematize this speed irregularity (in a broader sense, the theory rarely talks about aspects of carnatic performance but that is a different topic). Some people will insist that only fixed speeds are allowed as per theory, others will shrug and keep doing what they do. To each his own, I guess.

-Thenpaanan

[Nick H]

Wow... shining light into the darkness of my superficial-anyway theory!

Great post. Many thanks.

[vasanthakokilam]

In the Shabda lec-dem, Guru Karaikudi Mani says something in passing which talks to this point. He says that in Tamil in a jovial manner which is hard to translate but the essence is 'They push, we pull, we all adjust'

[Nick H]

Yes. Whilst I think that the rhythmic accuracy of carnatic musicians is amazing, humans are not machines, and the beat of a machine is dead. I had not realised there was as much intentional change as thenpaanan tells me about.

Not quite in the same class as Karaikudi Mani, but I remember one small girl on stage in London. Afterwards, she said to the two small boys (I was one "small" boy), "my tala was all over the place, but you both just followed." We shrugged and said, well, that was our job. Of course, that (and the young lady was the first to admit it) was indiscipline, which is not art.

[thenpaanan]

Yes. Whilst I think that the rhythmic accuracy of carnatic musicians is amazing, humans are not machines, and the beat of a machine is dead. I had not realised there was as much intentional change as thenpaanan tells me about.

Not quite in the same class as Karaikudi Mani, but I remember one small girl on stage in London. Afterwards, she said to the two small boys (I was one "small" boy), "my tala was all over the place, but you both just followed." We shrugged and said, well, that was our job. Of course, that (and the young lady was the first to admit it) was indiscipline, which is not art.

Two points: on the "intentional" part -- I sense that many musicians who change speed knowingly (there are some who are seemingly unaware of their own changes in pace as well!) do it with some sense of guilt/mischief/misgiving. My guess is a CM artist of even the smallest reputation will likely not own up to the change of pace unless it is blindingly obvious. This is probably because the theory does not bless it.

On whether speed changes (not tALa mishaps) is "art" -- the only justification I can think of for the theoretical prohibition on speed change is a general one. Classical music as I see it differentiates itself by putting constraints on musical expression by rules (prohibitions). The constraints push musicians to become more creative, to find more musical expression within the rules. But these same constraints can be stifling as well. Any music system is some balance of rules and "let it be's" just as there is a tension between those who want everything completely systematized (there are folks who are supremely confident that carnatic music is more "scientific" than Hindustani music because we have a more elaborate system) and those who only care about what holds the audience (who will laugh if you point out that what they did was not quite kosher).

In CM we are constantly testing the balance in practice but not in theory. We have not had theoretical innovation in centuries perhaps? Note that most if not all treatises on CM theory refer to the really old works -- the older the better. But then we wonder what made a rAmamatya or a (nisshanka!) Sarngdeva so sure about these rules that they wrote about? Surely the practice and theory were at variance then as they are now?

-Thenpaanan

[vasanthakokilam]

Note that most if not all treatises on CM theory refer to the really old works -- the older the better. But then we wonder what made a rAmamatya or a (nisshanka!) Sarngdeva so sure about these rules that they wrote about?

And that too when there are no myths that they got the blessings of Goddess Saraswathi in their dreams That is really a sure fire way to get things established, who is going to argue with Goddess Saraswathi!! ( just kidding )

About your other point, Yes, constraints and rules do make genres and architectures. Indeed.

In a non CM but a very related context, here is something Dr. Deepti Bhalla said. ( http://www.hindu.com/fr/2010/12/31/stor ... 590300.htm )

"..Certain difficulties of Kerala music relate to the kalapramanam on account of its context and lyrics. They become Athi Athi Vilamba Kala compositions and are characterised by a certain gradual ascent which is typical of Hindustani music. “The speed here does not get doubled - at once like the conventional Irandam Kaalam - and it is like the growth of the child which becomes noticeable only when you look at it after a considerable gap of say, ten years.”