Gayatri Girish

Rengarajan · Post by **Rengarajan** » 18 Dec 2006, 08:20

GG's concert at Music Academy amply justified her elevation to higher slot. She is distinct from her peers esp. in rendering diffecult Pallavi's which really gave satisfaction to RTP lovers like me. Backed by hard work, she was closely on the foot-steps of her guru - absorbing his styly and presenting the same suiting to her voice. Her Surdas Bhajan after RTP was full of melody and devotion
Rasikas shoud take note of this talented artist

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 18 Dec 2006, 21:57

Rengarajan, GG is a catchy abbreviation - and judging from GG's concert at the Academy my guess is that the carnatic world will hear a lot more of it! It was one of those concerts that graduated from a decent/satisfactory performance to an engaging and finally, an utterly captivating, one. If I were to reflect on the inflection point, it would have to be the alaapana in SAnkarabharanam - the one raga that can be counted upon, more than any other, to etch a halo around the artist's head....

G------....tch tch
MGRSR~.....hmmm
RGMGM~...(distractedly) bhale, bhale
GMP----MGM~PD~NSP~....oho
NS'R'~S'---....shabhash!! shabhash!!
R'G'M'G'---R'S'N.....goosebumps
N'R'G'M'G'---R'S'N....speechlessly floored...
S'R'P~'M'G'---R'G'M'G'--R'S'N....BLISS!!! ECSTASY!!!

The bar was set by Sanjay at his Academy concert in 2002 - the intensity of his passion matching the vivid red jibba he wore that day....I am unlikely to be escorted to those lofty heights anytime soon but GG can take comfort from having established a small turning point in her own musical career. Songlist:

Navaraga Malika Varnam (S)
Excerpt from Thiruppavai - Gowla - Andal
Emta BHagyam - Saranga - Thyagaraja - Adi (R,S)
Mari vere - Ananda Bhairavi - Misra Chapu - Syama Shastri
Edutanilachhite - Sankarabharanam - Adi - Thyagaraja (RNST)
Saravanabhava - Pasupathipriya - Adi - HMB
RTP - Hemavathi - "Ninne Nammithi Neerajadala Nayana Rama Sree Rama Seetha Rama" - Tisra Triputa (8 Kalai)

A neat navaragamalika varnam with swaras in all the constituent ragas was enough indication that this first-time evening-slotter was not in a mood to let the occasion overawe her. A Thiruppavai piece in Gowlai was followed by a competent Saranga alaapana...V Sanjeevâ€™s essay on the violin went one up on the vocalist, setting a benchmark that he faithfully adhered to throughout the concert. Mari Vere was flawlessly executed but its emotional appeal was lost on me - it sounded like GG was anxious to get on to the main piece....

Not without reason - for her entree was a devilishly appetizing one. A soothing gandhara laid the base for an exhilarating journey up the glorious scale with sancharas woven around MGM~, P, DP~ S', R' leading to the cathartic ascension to the tara sthayi gandaram and panchamam. The TNS bani was paid due homage with vigorous brighas that easily negotiated the octave in a breath. The mandhra sthayi proved to be a bit of a no mans-land but the attempt deserved commendation, even if the voice did not entirely co-operate. Sanjeev, as noted earlier, proved to be an extremely able accompanist with full-bodied strokes effectively articulating his own insightful vision of the raga.

It would be easy to dismiss Thiruvarur Vaidyanathan's accompaniment as overly aggressive but although I woke up with a headache today, I relished every little stroke of his. Not a single sangathi was spared the interpretative possibilities thrown up by his fertile imagination, even if a more subdued execution would have better complemented GG's high-pitched voice. Nevertheless, his rasping fingers had a sparkling effect on Edutanilacchite, a krithi almost designed for such rhtyhmic gymnastics, especially during the energetic niraval on "Na Tarama Telisi". The tani was, alas, a short affair, signed off with a 2 avaratha korvai in chatushram and khandam. I cannot recollect the ghatam vidwan's name - a long haired young man - but he managed to get himself heard above his co-percussionist's clamor and ably responded to the mridangist's dicey korvai during the vinyasa.

Suguna Purushottaman once remarked that the best complement she received for her complicated pallavis was from a fan who felt that the raga bhavam had survived the onslaught of her dexterous mathematical challenges...the same could be said of GG's Pallavi. From the short yet engaging alaapana to the 5-nadai Trikaalam-Tisram suite in a 112 matra taalam (it was reduced to 4 kalai for trikaalam), Hemavathi dominated all the way.

It is only human for an evening-slot debutante to wonder whether the opportunity will present itself again....but GG has good reasons to believe so...

Vijay

rmdeer2000 · Post by **rmdeer2000** » 18 Dec 2006, 22:53

Vijay,

I think your reviews make-up for missing the concert. Thank you so much for providing such eloquent write-ups for all the concerts you attend.

Thanks and hoping for more,

Ram

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 18 Dec 2006, 22:58

Thanks Vijay and Rengarajan for those reviews...I have had the opportunity of hearing her sing at low key affairs from when she was S. Gayatri, both at the local temple and at our school functions...My mother will be delighted that she performed at the haloed evening slot at MMA...

srinidhi · Post by **srinidhi** » 19 Dec 2006, 13:22

Beautiful review Vijay. Thanks a lot

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 19 Dec 2006, 23:55

Thanks for your good words people...although I would probably rant on even without your encouragement - talking about music is even more addictive than listening to it!

raja · Post by **raja** » 20 Dec 2006, 23:32

Just a couple of notes to add to Vijay's excellent and comprehensive review.

During the RTP swarakalpana, GG did a ragamalika - a quick succession of ragas each spanning a single avartanam. Ragas included NAttai, VasanthA, LathAngi, MOhanam, REvathi, Valaj. (Disclaimer: this is from memory, so may not be in that exact sequence, and I may be missing one or two ragas - my apologies for any errors.) My point is that it is not easy to unfold the beauty and identity of a raga within the confines of a single avartanam - but GG did this brilliantly.

The Surdas bhajan was in raga Gamanasrama. True to its name, it takes a bit of "sramam" to keep this melakartha raga distinct from its popular janyam pUrvikalyAni. Again, GG had no trouble on this front. Some of the Hindustani-style brighas during avarohanam were again reminiscent of her genius guru, TNS.

GG is to be congratulated on an important milestone in her musical career.

Raja..

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 21 Dec 2006, 01:11

Thanks for the additions Raja - my notes agree with the order of kalpana-swaras you mention in terms of sequence, save for Lathangi in place of which I have a question mark!

mahesh33 · Post by **mahesh33** » 21 Dec 2006, 09:34

Vijay sir, You are back, and with a bang. Your reviews are amazing, please keep up the good work

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 22 Dec 2006, 00:11

Thanks Mahesh-ji and will try to add more but it doesn't help that one spends the whole days in sabhas throughout the day and then another hour or so afterwards chatting about music over Gnanambika's Thakkali Sevai and Asoka Halwa....ahhh, the gloriouos excesses of the season!

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 22 Dec 2006, 05:14

The Hindu review of this concert by veteran vocalist V. Subrahmaniam is not so laudatory. http://www.hindu.com/ms/2006/12/22/stor ... 100200.htm

gundakriya · Post by **gundakriya** » 22 Dec 2006, 08:54

I would call it an excellent and constructive review. Praising where necessary and offering helpful tips for improvement. Coming from a reputed vidwan and guru, it has authenticity. That is the difference between a genuine review and SOME of the garbage that appears on this forum - song lists accompanied by ill-informed and disrespectful comments.

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 22 Dec 2006, 09:47

For your information the HINDU article says the Ghatam artiste as N.Gurumoorthy and N.Guruprasad at another place... Just for clarification.. he is actually N.Guruprasad son of famous Ghatam vidwan Nagaraja Rao.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 22 Dec 2006, 10:18

gundakriya
no one on this forum ever claimed that they are well informed or that their comments should attract a lot of respect.

In fact many of them underline the fact that they report rather than review.

But I do agree that some reviews here may tend to look like reports of star-struck admirers , or disciples or whatever you call them-
And dont they look sweet , with all their admiration and moist eyes.....

They do, to my eyes , especially when I have attended one of those concerts..

Simply because they have also offered to disclose how their own minds work.

And that is the essence of reporting on this forum.

It would be wonderful if you attract our attention to the garbage as and where you notice it.That is the way forward..

Rengarajan · Post by **Rengarajan** » 22 Dec 2006, 11:22

Gundakriya should agree that reviews also are subject to review
Readers shall definitely watch whether same yardstick is applied by the reviewer on his other rviews, to evaluate sincerity of approach. Gundakriya's observation of others' views on what they felt about a concert, as garbage may be reflected on his observations as well.

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 22 Dec 2006, 12:09

No where has it been mentioned about GG's first guru Vaigal Sri.Gnanaskandan. I think he should also be given due credit for what is GG today.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 22 Dec 2006, 14:38

Gundakriya, everyone is free to report/review however they want as long as it does not include personal attacks.

Calling someone's review as garbage is not a constructive feedback. The same message can be told in a less biting manner. That is the art of communication. Please dont offend others in the pretext of adding value.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 22 Dec 2006, 15:17

Gundakriya, Iit is a very insightful review - reading it does make one appear somewhat foolish. Alas not all of us have that kind of knowledge to aid us when we share our thoughts....given which, we should probably just save our not-so-precious breath.

On the other hand, if we let ignorance get in the way of discussion, the purpose of a forum like this appears somewhat unclear. None of us pretend to be authorities on music (although we are lucky to have a few such individuals) and I don't think one needs that qualification to talk about a concert or music in general...to me this forum is not very different from a chat over coffee at the sabha canteen after the kutchery..."nanna padinaala?"..."illai sar, bhairavi sumaaratthan irundhudhu"...why was the Bhairavi mediocre? Alas, one does not have the capacity to provide an adequate answer...

However, given the growing membership of the forum (and adding appropriate multiples for unregistered eyes!) there is the danger of poorly informed opinions spreading misinformation and possibly affecting careers (although this does seem a little far-fetched)

So what is the solution...maybe, to being with, the moderator can issue a standard disclaimer to all postings under this thread to indicate that opinions are not those of experts and therefore, possibly incorrect.

Finally, as one of the contributors, an apology for my own ignorance and errors.

Your Friendly Neighbourhood Kabadiwallah!

kamakoti · Post by **kamakoti** » 22 Dec 2006, 17:02

I was one of the rasikas present in this concert and thouroughly enjoyed it.My views on the concert will be very similar to those of Vijay.

We have been listening to concerts for years and inability to express our views in technical terms does not mean we cannot judge the quality of any concert.

A music critic has responsibility to ensure that his views are correct and are expressed constructively.I do not think the Hindu review by " a veteren guru" can be taken as one such.

Sometimes such reviews unfortunately exposes the reviewer more than the reviewed.

There is no doubt that any performance could be improved.Critic has to combine appreciation of good aspects and also bring our deficiencies if he is convinced about the deficiencies.

Hindu review of gayathri girish's concert was completely one sided and it creates serious doubts abour the reviewer's credentials .

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 22 Dec 2006, 17:57

mahavishnu wrote:The Hindu review of this concert by veteran vocalist V. Subrahmaniam is not so laudatory.

My reading of the review didn't suggest the above. A review by a veteran vidwan is expected to include such advice to younger artistes. I would be surprised if otherwise! It's a bit like a granddad giving advice to his grandchild. Let's take it in this spirit.

Also, we don't want this forum to be taken over by vidwans, however educational that may be. Let this remain a place where rasikas can discuss music and related matters.

Re: the comment about reviews by forum members - this forum is called 'rasikas.org', not 'vidwans.org'. I salute the effort of vijay, ram, prashant & others on taking their time to share their experiences at the concerts they attend.
Any time someone has written derogatory remarks they have been promptly chastised by fellow members. So not sure where gundakriya got the source for his comments!

"Evidence, my dear Watson, evidence," said Holmes, "that's what's lacking in this case."

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 22 Dec 2006, 18:35

The HINDU review was posted for information purposes only, since it was directly relevant to this thread. In my opinion, an article sub-headlined as "In the upper octave, Gayatri tends to croon in spite of the fact that she has a powerful voice" is not just about giving advise. I think Kamakoti makes a good point about this. I also posted it since this opinion was very different from that expressed by members of this forum that were at the concert. Paraphrasing a review from the Hindu which is done quite often on this forum also does not mean that it is being taken over by "vidwans". I am a relative newcomer to this forum and contrary to what some members say, I find the postings by those that attend the events (especially the detailed song lists) to be very useful. I agree with Jayaram on that.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 22 Dec 2006, 18:44

Paraphrasing a review from the Hindu which is done quite often on this forum also does not mean that it is being taken over by "vidwans".

MV, I wasn't referring to your inclusion of reviews from the Hindu. (We all welcome that!) I was reacting to the remark that unlike reviews here by rasikas that are 'garbage' this vidwan's review is so much better.
Sorry for any confusion.

kamakoti · Post by **kamakoti** » 22 Dec 2006, 19:52

In my view a grand father could comfortably give his loving and caring advice to his grand daughter or grand son thru a phone call.

In fact,it is the responsibility of the young artist to call the seniors who attend the concert and seek advice.

Concert REVIEW in media is only to let the thousands of Rasikas all over the world to know how artists perform.This information will certainly influence the readers in making up opinion about the artists.

What impression this review will create in the minds of thousands of rasikas who read the Hindu but not the views expressed in this forum.

If this is the intent of the reviewer ,he is right and I claim that he has been irresponsible.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 22 Dec 2006, 20:31

There are other subtle Issues here.

I am yet to see a disciple of SSI breaking out of the shackles of trying to be a clone of their master.

And when such a Vidwan takes upon the reviewing of a product of another school which believes in experimenting every inch of the way , the situation starts getting blurred.

Remarks like -Tends to Croon- looks a bit jarring from somebody who has heard his master produce some very special nasal sounds-

And very jarring , considering that he once wrote bitterly in a national Newspaper complaining that His Guru did not know when to says quits and was blocking the ways for youngsters..

And look at the number of youngsters that have exploded on the stage today...

As I compare the 80s to today , I cant help feeling the buzz all around.These artists will take time to get the full lustre, no doubt.
But they will definitely be individually different .

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 22 Dec 2006, 21:41

Coolkarni/Kamakoti: I am glad that the subtleties in the political nature of the HINDU review have not escaped your keen eyes. I have been following the season from abroad and I rely on reviews such as these to hear about upcoming artistes who I have only seen in the junior slots in earlier years. I totally agree with Kamakoti on another issue as well. I also do not pick up a sense of avuncular advise as being the motivation for the review.

I am just curious to see what kind of reviews the rest of the season will bring from V Subrahmaniam. The same reviewer has been very generous in his appraisal of Vijay Siva's performance at MA (and deservedly so from what I have heard), but that is a topic for another thread. Does he now write a review column regularly for the HINDU?

Cool-ji: When/Where did he write re: SSI and the young musicians?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 22 Dec 2006, 22:14

mahavishnu

I was referring to the fact

that he gave a big interview in 1980 -in a National daily-, where he complained about SSI not retiring even when he was past his prime and hence was blocking the progress of his disciples..

AND

the feeling that he could be more generous , in the reviews , when so many youngsters are coming on the stage ( pardon me if I still hold GG as a Youngster- ) and not make remarks about how an alapana of shankarabharana should be structured...

gundakriya · Post by **gundakriya** » 22 Dec 2006, 23:31

Wow... so much has happened in this thread in the span of a few hours after my remark. I fail to understand what gets srkris, coolkarni, etc. so hot under the collar. In my post I have clearly said "SOME of the garbage that appears on this forum". Where/when did I ever say that all the posts that appear here are garbage? I was only cautioning against the tendency of some posters to make sweeping remarks under the banner of 'concert review'.

And coolkarni, shame on you for 'rabble-rousing' by raising the bogey of an SSI school vidwan trying to trash a product of another school.... is it the same you who chastised another rasika for raisng the shaivite-vaishnavite bogey in another thread?

If that were true, what do you have to say about the fulsome praise VS has showered on Vijay Siva, a product of the DKJ bani? Politics there too? You should know better than me about V. Subrahmaniam's vidwat... Why shouldn't he comment about structuring an alapana? I see that as constructive criticism coming from a senior who has the vidwat and ability to structure and execute a mind-blowing alapana. If you have any doubts, just pick up his recent CD and listen to the Kharaharapriya. We should be glad that a knowledgeable and sober guy like him is writing reviews rather than the mediocre SVK.

And that remark about SSI's 'special nasal sounds' is below the belt, knowing as we all do about the herculean battle the doyen had with his vocal chords all through his life.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 23 Dec 2006, 07:28

Gundakriya..
I thought I was eligible for some benefit of doubt..

Did I ever say he trashed a Product of another school.I only said things start getting blurred when One Vidwan reviews the concert of another artist-something that is rarely seen in print , in any form of Music.One gets to hear a lot , though-off record

There are parallels in Cricket.

When the Great Gavaskar comments on the performance of say Mohd Kaif , in a One day match..there is a slight hesitation that we can observe when he makes comments about a slow innings â€“ and he keeps acknowledging that Kaif is worth 40 runs while fielding.Because he knows -and we all know -how Gavaskar ran behind balls on the field and gave up chases , and how , on one fine day ..played out the 60 overs in a One day Match.

So, it should be , with these veterans when they make comments as part of their reviews.

One does not need vidwath to make a comment that rendering of Varnas need not be supplemented with swaras since they are normally avoided.....BY WHO ?
By people who walk the well trodden path. And not others.
And it takes only two years of serious listening to know that there is no other way to build a Sankarabharana alapana , other than building it first as great edifice....

Sure enough , any major attempt at Sankarabharana is bound to have its pitfalls and this concert need not be an exception.It is not something that GG can go back home and realize that it should be done in a different way.
I talk to so many artists -who are friends too-after a performance and they acknowledge that a certain thing did not work.-Some of them are your favourites too, if my memory â€“about your posts here-serves me right.They even grimace at me -after the alapana-
This gap between an ideal alapana and what is projected on any given day â€“ it can happen to anybody .Every single rasika is aware of that

And I will not get into the Issue of tough Pallavis at the cost of Raga bhava.

And to reduce kalpanaswaras here and add it up there- Man He, of all people must know how an artistâ€™s mind works.She was not cutting an album.She did not claim to be a perfectionist like MS (I once timed 52 Vathapis of MS in concerts spanning 4 decades and they all were within a duration of + / - 45 seconds-What does it indicate ? Simply how MSâ€™s method is all wired up .That is all.Take it or leave it.So it shall be with GG , too) .

And the Consumer here is a rasika , not a group of students or knowledgable people like you.The review looked like a comment made by a judge after a contest...

And I made the point about crooning ,only because I saw this particular statement highlighted in bold. So that was the thrust of his review wasnâ€™t it.
"GG tends to croon ...... Good attempt."

And I was not referring to SSI when I talked about those nasal sounds.I was talking about Disciples imitating those styles inspite of not having a handicap.

That was what lead me to the point whether this reviewer ever mentioned these issues when he reviewed a SSI Concert- For he certainly found fault with SSI on other issues-

Unless you want us to believe that the rules of the game are different for SSI and GG.

If I have offended anyone with my opinion of VS as an artist, I withdraw any sentiment that may have hurt .

However if I have succeeded in bringing to focus the problems of one artist reviewing another artist , let that be the focus of further discussions, if any.
As far as the Issues of politicking is concerned , I had no such intentions .Any one who has read my posts , till now ,will know that much.And that is why I thought I was eligible for some benefit of doubt.
( Now Venkatpv - If you will excuse me. I will not talk about cricket for another month)

kamakoti · Post by **kamakoti** » 23 Dec 2006, 08:44

Gundakriya, I do not wish to get into any politics of one school commenting on the other - that is unfair.

I do not think we should even talk about one artist commenting on the other (Despite his Vidwat,VS has not had any success in concert platforms)

I take it as a review by a learned,knowledgable teacher.

I would like to talk only about Review "Dharma" if we were to define one.

First of all Reviewer needs to become very objective.There are many styles of singing and the style depends upon the artist's choice ,desire,passion ,whatever it may be.
We have to realise that each has its own merit .An artist has to set his own goals for success and choose the style natural to him and pursue whole heartedly.

Reviwer has to recognise these differences and should analyse the strengths and weaknesses in a perfprmance based on the artist's style and not his own choice.

This requires very open mind for the reviewer to appreciate different styles and comment accordingly

GG's style includes creativity and innovation at every stage.Instead of questioning creativity,reviewer has to assess if she has succeeded in what she set forth for herself.

In Hindu review , we did not find one word of appreciation to the music of GG.It requires lot of courage to take up a challenging pallavi in the first main slot concert .She managed the Pallavi extraordinarily well - certainly without sacrificing Raga Bhava throughout (contrary to the reviewer's opinion) - there was no recognition of this in the review.

Second strength of GG is her diction - one can follow sahitya to every syllable and understand the meaning if you know the language) - anyone who needs to check this out is recommended to listen to her new Album "Vaishnavam" and listen to Swati Tirunal's ragamalika Bhavayami Raghuramam - I have listened to this for thirty years from different vidwans - for the first time I could enjoy the beauty of Swatitirunal's sahityam.
Hindu review did not talk of any strengths in the artist.

Let us not get into any politics - let us focus on the purpose of Review to let the world know about a concert and hence Good and bad need to be highlighted appropriately,fairly and objectively.

This "Dharma" was conspicuos by its absence in the Hindu Review.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 23 Dec 2006, 23:54

Let us not get into any politics - let us focus on the purpose of Review to let the world know about a concert and hence Good and bad need to be highlighted appropriately,fairly and objectively.

And I thought that's just what vidwan Subramaniam did in his review!
Why is it that we try to look for hidden agendas where they may be none??

rasam · Post by **rasam** » 24 Dec 2006, 05:06

I have to agree with coolkarni that the the review in some places is hardly "constructive" ...

>> As varnams themselves have enough chittaswara passages, any swara supplementations are normally avoided.

What rot! Small adi tala varnams like valacchi, ninnekori etc. are definitely better presented with a crisp round of one-avartanam kalpana swarams. Instead of lauding her effort in singing swarams in all 9 ragams, he criticizes her for it! Perhaps, VS's mind has been numbed by the zillion times SSI started a concert with "Deva Deva."

>> Gayatri could have reduced the kalpanaswara renditions for the Saranga piece and attempted a few vilamba kala and madhyama kala swaras for the Ananda Bhairavi kriti.

IMO, a reviewer has no business to pass comments like this. The most you can say is whether you liked the swarams or not, and if you didn't, what you think can be done for improvement. What's next? Is VS going to say something like "it would have been better if GG had sung kambhoji instead of shankarabarnam as the main piece"??

So what if GG decided to sing extended swarams in Saranga and not sing swarams in anandhabhairavi? Maybe she felt like singing saranga that day. Again, this is probably a case of being stuck in the 'SSI rut'. 9 times out 10, SSI would ALWAYS sing swarams in anandhabhairavi.

>> Gayatri Girish tends to croon in the upper octave despite the fact that she has a powerful voice.

As someone else has pointed out, this is hardly "constructive"!!

kamakoti · Post by **kamakoti** » 24 Dec 2006, 06:51

Jayaram

This is precisely what VS just did not accomplish in his review.

It is difficult to believe that about 700 rasikas were sitting through the concert till
10 pm to applaud and appreciate all the negatives VS pointed out!!!!

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 24 Dec 2006, 08:58

in all fairness performing artists should be banned from making reviews in the forum because knowingly or unknowingly their personal prejudices crop up......
a review can at the most be supplemented by value additions without a direct attack on the reviewer or casting aspersions because there is an element of subjectivity in all reviews....

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 24 Dec 2006, 09:32

Chalanata, what you say is right, but everyone has their own prejudices based on their perceptions. Its not just the performing artists alone. We cant ban anyone for their prejudices from making reviews. Instead, we should learn to tolerate partiality and encourage impartiality.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 24 Dec 2006, 10:08

srkris wrote:Instead, we should learn to tolerate partiality and encourage impartiality.

Chembai,
I hope that the MMA learns to recognise the partiality inherent in these reviews...somehow, I have my doubts, but I am ever hopeful that they will happen to sit under a bodhi tree, or (more probable) get hit by a bolt of lightning and acquire these skills.