what is good music

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 16 Dec 2005, 15:51

Hi all

i am new to this forum & hence i don't know whether this thread has been discussed before.

the beauty of cm is that is consists of so many aspects. in my opinion that various aspects are( not in any order of importance)& not complete)

voice
bahvam
sruthi
tala
manodharma
ability to improvise & imagination
repertoire of the artist

The weightage for each aspect differs from rasika to rasika. May that is why somebody is hardcore fan of an artist while another person can't stand the same artist.

If u give more weightage to voice bhavam & srythi may be u are a fan of MS. If u attach importance to tala , manodharma,improvisation then may be u are a fan of TNS.

Any comments

regards

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 20 Dec 2005, 15:15

well.this has been discussed before.But i see no harm in going through this again.
My own feeling is that CM is a great thing to happen to me, because as a CM rasika , i am never a finished product , but always a Work-in-progress.One cannot speak of HM in the same vein.
I am just trying to recollect the way I started appreciating CM music.
Very young age-- remember my maternal grandmother singing beautifully-all in the comfort of that magnificent lap.
Age 5-10 ..started appreciating MS (Bhavayami , Sree Rangapuravihara and such stuff)
10-15-- Fell in love with the great LP records of semmangudi.
Hindola , kadanakuthoohala,poorvikalyani,hamsadhwani,ranjini were such great hits with me.Never cared for dhanyasi , begada , sahana , yadukulakhamboji,dharmavathi,then
had all the great masters covered by now . all their hits.
15-25- fell in love with concert music, the grand sound of the mridangam, the atmosphere in the hall and nearby canteens
25-35,, started slowing down to spend more time with likes of ramad krishnan,MDR,nagaswaram,Dwaram,
35-45- opened my eyes to Somu, TMT, Kalyanraman,Veena .....
And on it goes....
My point is that for mortals like me (used to the idea of three dimesional space and some idea of time as the fourth dimension) Music provides to me a world of so many dimensions that I can only be sure of comprehending only within my limitations.
Every now and then I clutch my head and think "Boy i have not listened to XXX for weeks !!! And all the while I have been logging 4 hours of listening everyday!!!"
So that is CM for me..

kaumaaram · Post by **kaumaaram** » 27 Dec 2005, 16:34

Rajumds,

Over a period of time, an artist gains popularity. He or she starts accepting concerts beyond reasonable limits that eventually reflects upon performance. The stress should be on the qualities that you have listed; and every artist howsoever popular he or she might be, must endeavour to make improvisations by a conscious appraisal that finally you get the best out of him/her. Saadhana is essential and that alone would drive one to be perfect.

Kaumaaram

srangarajan47 · Post by **srangarajan47** » 04 Jan 2006, 16:39

CM is unique in the sense it is a nice blend of art and science and hence it can be appreciated by those with training in Science or Arts. I feel CM can be appreciated at 4 levels depending on the type of the individual rasika. One at the very basic 'Physical level', where one is attracted by the sweet/ sonorous voice. Two at the 'Intellectual level', where one is attracted by the singer's intellect, for example when the singer renders 'kalpana swaram' with complicated 'kanakku' or indulges in 'grahabedham'. Third at the 'Emotional level' - eg when one hears an excellent 'Sahana raga alapana' tears swell in the eyes. Fourth at the 'Spiritual level' - eg while hearing persons like the great MS Subbulakshmi, all noble thoughts flood our mind and we decide to be angels for the rest of our lives. Thus CM has the potential to mesmorise all sections of society, though eachone's expectation from CM is different. Perhaps Music in general and CM in particular, if appropriate efforts are taken for its probagation, can serve as strong bond between societies.

kaumaaram · Post by **kaumaaram** » 05 Jan 2006, 09:59

Ranga,

Excellent classification. And possibly, you may attempt to classify the listeners too.

Kaumaaram

param · Post by **param** » 05 Jan 2006, 10:16

Any form of music pleasant to my ears is good music - it could be the noise made by machines, or the bells clinging on to the bull's neck, or the sound of gongs attached to a sugar-cane crushing machine (the predominantly seen in Maharashtra), or the thumping noice made by the washerman. In short, everything has a layam in it and anything with layam is music - if found pleasant by my ears - I term it as good music.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 09 Feb 2006, 02:26

What is good music? This is highly subjective.There are as many different classes of rasikas as there are schools of music,be it the MS/Semmangudi school of traditional sampradhaya music or the TNS/Balamurali scholl of innovative and creative music.I myself am a fan of this innovative/creative school of music.
Let us, therefore, grant to each rasika his right to appreciate that brand of music which appeals to him.There is a latin saying," De gustibus not est disputandum" (There is no disputing about tastes).So let us not dispute another fellow rasika's favourite school of music or his choice of artiste.
The bottom line is that what sounds good to the ears and appeals to the soul is, ultimately, good music.
Sivaraman.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 09 Feb 2006, 05:03

Didn't Johann Sebastian Bach say that the purpose of all music is to be divine and uplift the listeners? (I may be paraphrasing).

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Feb 2006, 09:26

Each of us that finds that some of the world's sounds constitute ood music probably also find that some of them constitute bad.

I guess we then join together according to our tastes, and then good and bad take on meanings at the group level.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 29 Oct 2006, 08:32

the most unfortunate thing about CM is it has of late become an icon of skill rather than melody.
those who start weeping in the melancholic songs with the purpose of bringing in the bhava start weeping while singing all songs with varied expressions. in fact the vaggekaras have devised the songs only in those ragas suitable for the mood of the song.
A cocktail of good diction, sruti, singing with awareness of the core meaning of the song will bring about all the nuances of music. and it should not be like giant waves hitting the shore but should be like the residue of what is left after the hits of waves.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Oct 2006, 21:06

chalanata,
Your expression 'with awareness of the core meaning of the song' is worth mulling over from the sAhityA point of view (so too the other things that you mention). We come across the following pattern on the forum when it comes to discussing sAhityA. Those of us who speak with zeal about sAhityA do realize that it is only a part of what our music is all about. We are not fanatics and yet, the moment sAhityA is mentioned as to how understanding of it enhances one's singing, there are those who react by assuming that sAhityA alone is what we care about! They also nurse this feeling that the singers are expected to be experts in all the languages!
Your statement says it very well, indeed! What one is looking for is an awareness for sAhityA...

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 18 Dec 2006, 05:11

This article, though written with western music in mind, makes some interesting points:
http://ludens.cl/musicus/goodmus.html

On reading thru the article, one question comes to mind: our music is melody-based, while western music has a large harmony element to it. Has anyone tried introducing harmony into Carnatic music at all? (And I am not referring to Rahman!

)

abitakucalamba · Post by **abitakucalamba** » 18 Dec 2006, 05:37

sruthi mata laya pita

both must be there to produce good carnatic music. one is not less or more important than the other; they must both be treated, as the saying goes, as two parents. as any child would find it difficult without one parent, so too the listener would find it difficult to appreciate music that is solid in both of these departments. this is why, in my opinion, KVN and ramnad krishnan were perfect musicians.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 18 Dec 2006, 05:59

I have a feeling that this author would appreciate CM rhythm very much.

BTW, we had some nascent discussions on harmony and CM here: http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=547

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 18 Dec 2006, 18:49

Jayaram
You Ignore Illayaraja at your own Peril !!

Illayaraja - who gave so many wonderful moments to us in this
No-Man's Land where Maps and Compass fail to guide laymen like me.

On a serious note , here are two clips from a personal video .
The main violinist is L Narasimhan and this group -called the String Quartet- do have an album to their credit-RESONANCE.
Dont miss it . It is a great album to have on your shelves.
One song that has been played in that album , though, is on view here-Mokshamu - and that should answer your query.

http://www.rogepost.com/n/3488901572
http://www.rogepost.com/n/6837540232

Time and again , I watch this wonderful artist and lament the lack of space for such performances in Chennai.
Ah ! I look forward to the day when we will have something like the OTHER FESTIVAL or say THE ALTERNATE FESTIVAL to showcase artforms where there is more Cross Pollination !

Enjoy this tearjerker..

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 27 Dec 2006, 03:29

I got to watch this video finally - it's quite good. Perhaps someone can start a sabha for this type of alternative music during the season. I'm sure there will be good demand, esp. amongst the younger crowd. And this may be a good way to bring more of them into Carnatic music.

shanks · Post by **shanks** » 31 Dec 2006, 23:30

Coolkarni wrote:
The main violinist is L Narasimhan and this group -called the String Quartet- do have an album to their credit-RESONANCE.

They are called the "Madras String Quartet" - the change to Chenni does create some confusion though

This CD is wonderful - they have played a collection of well known kritis. The main melody of the kriti is supported by a second violin, cello and bass in western style harmony and interludes. I believe all of them have been a part of Ilayaraja's orchestra and he celloist happens to be son of kunnakudi vaidyanathan.

It is an excellent CD - qualifies to be a "must have CD"; palukavademira in devamanohari very rarely heard these days is an excellent piece in the CD. It is produced by oriental records and i am not sure if you can buy it in India. Check out [url]http://www.oriental%20records.com[/url]

The percussion lovers will have a gripe on this CD because there is no persussion at all !!

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 01 Jan 2007, 01:16

I believe the cello is a great instrument to import into Carnatic music. Imagine listening to someone play shubhapantuvarali on it!

shanks · Post by **shanks** » 01 Jan 2007, 18:46

Jayaram,
I have read about an american lady who plays hindustani music on cello; she sits down cross legged and uses perhaps a smaller sized cello to fit the needs, She has performed in India if i remember correctly.
The magazine Sruti carried an article about her a couple of years ago.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 01 Jan 2007, 19:13

There is a Madison, WI-based Hindustani Dhrupad style cellist by the name of Nancy Lesh. She trained for a few years under Mohinuddin Dagar. Her albums are widely available through Amazon.com and other sources. I very enthusiastically bought her CD about 10 years ago. I don't mean to sound judgemental, but her music still leaves a lot to be desired for. Although I must confess that I have not heard anything from her lately.

However, I suspect that the cellist that Shanks refers to is named Saskia Rao (she sits cross-legged and has an adapted smaller size cello). She is of Dutch descent and is married to an Indian gentleman named Subhendra Rao, disciple of Pt Ravi Shankar and a rather well-established sitarist. Saskia Rao trained with Hariprasad Chaurasia (among others) and is based in Delhi. She has an extensive website with audio clips http://www.saskiarao.com/

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 02 Jan 2007, 19:24

Saskia Rao sounded ok, although the clips provided were a bit too brief.

Perhaps the NRI parents on this forum can encourage their children to take up the cello for Carnatic music.

Music · Post by **Music** » 03 Jan 2007, 00:41

To me good music feels like it is something that already exists in the atmosphere. A good artist knows how to bring it out to the listener. E.g. say you enjoyed a Todi raga rendition by an artist. The raga already existed with all its characteristics. It is not something new that was just born. The artist with all his/her skill & training got the best 'cocktail' mix for you, as Chalanata puts it. The artist then becomes a medium/channel for the listener to experience & enjoy the raga. A good artist enjoys this musical experience himself/herself anyway, and brings in the listener too to enjoy the bliss.