Injikudi Subramanian - Naada Inbam - 3 Aug 2013

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 04 Aug 2013, 07:23

Sri Injikudi Subramanian - nAdaswaram
Sri Embar Kannan - violin
Sri Patri Satish Kumar - mrudangam
Sri Anirudh Athreya - khanjira

Thatha's Memorial Concert Series
Duration: 2h 30m

Approximate Songlist:

mallari - gambIranATTai (R)
tatvamariya tarama - rItigowLa - Adi - PS (R, S @ madisEkaran maganE)
amba srI paramESwari - hamsakalyANi - Adi - TSI (R, S @ pallavi)
rakSa beTTarE - bhairavi - Adi - T (R, S @ pallavi, T)
rAma nAmamE - dES - Adi - TSI (R)
madhyamAvati rAgam

I thought it was a fabulous concert. Tatvamariya tarama was a sprightly introduction to the concert with crisp swaras at a beautiful line immortalised by MMI. The hamsakalyANi was a highlight of the evening, with Injikudi's elaborate alapanai carefully avoiding venturing too much into hamsadwani or kalyANi, and giving the ragam its own identity. I have not heard this ragam or composition before, though CRama told me Injikudi's rendition has been discussed on the forum. He often returned to these gorgeous NRG,,,, kArvais, ably supported by Sri Kannan alternating stAyis. M2, to my ears, did not feature as prominently as I'd expected in the alapanai, with a fair bit of emphasis on the dhaivatam on the descent. TSI's composition was lilting and a treat, rounded off by a few brisk rounds of swaras. The bhairavi alapanai was comprehensive, and there were several phrases I have not heard before. Sri Injikudi made good use of brighas in this alapanai, carefully developing phrases by incrementally adding a brigha to the same phrase, with Sri Kannan trying his best until the going really got too complicated. The exchanges between the two were wonderful to watch, and I hear they are childhood friends. Sri Injikudi surprisingly played a lot of staccato phrases even in bhairavi, and I appreciated his experiments. Those moments where he returned to the tested, gamaka-laden phrases, though, were such a treat, especially as they were built up so beautifully. RakSa beTTare (thanks to Srikant for identifying this) was well played, with elaborate swaras eventually following jaunty panchamam-centered patterns that appear in almost all Injikudi concerts I've heard.

The dES, which I'd requested having heard Sri Injikudi deliver an astounding performance in San Diego in 2009 (which was itself a request of Sri GJR Krishnan), was nothing short of magical. Sri Injikudi's alapanai was ever so delicate, with gorgeous kArvais that raised such anticipation in the crowd that we were chu-chu-ing and head-shaking even during the silences that preceded the kArvai, in sheer delight at what was to come. Sri Injikudi plays dES with a very distinct style that employs a lot of folksy phrases in the SN2DP region especially. As CRama observed, there was a great element of Ustad Bismillah Khan in his playing. His rendition of TSI's kriti was so moving. Those lovely transitions to the pallavi from the AP and C were exquisitely handled, and he played the AP and C with really evocative kArvais, allowing the music to sink in.

Sri Injikudi's fertile imagination really shines through in his concerts, as it did last evening. He has an extraordinary sense of aesthetics, and as self-effacing and ridiculously humble the man is, he has a sense of performance as well in crafting alapanais to exploit the emotive effect of each phrase, alternating straight phrases with gamaka-laden and brigha phrases. His sense of the kArvai, raising the nAdaswaram to the appropriately placed mic on stage and filling the hall with the resonance of the instrument, played such a big part of the concert's success yesterday. He is a rare musician who demonstrates the music of silence.

Sri Embar Kannan played on a five-string electric violin yesterday and provided great accompaniment. He never strayed from the main artiste's direction, even as he played an interlude in dES, adhering almost exactly to the phrases Sri Injikudi had played and finishing exactly where he did. His bhairavi ragam was good and had a little more gamakam-laden exploration than Sri Injikudi's, which i enjoyed. His kalpanaswara responses were uniformly excellent, with his ability to match both the laya and raga content of Sri Injikudi's patterns. His bhairavi responses were particularly excellent. That said, I am not convinced about this electric violin, which had a rather thick sound that muffled a lot of brighas and had an excessively glide-y tone.

Patri Satish Kumar played exceptionally last night, with his versatility shining right from the mallari. He played with great clarity, and his sense of anticipation must be one of the best, as demonstrated in his playing for all the swaraprastarams. His playing was also very sensitive, and his accompaniment for kArvais was exceptional. His left-side play must be mentioned in this context. He and Sri Anirudh shared great rapport, and Anirudh played beautifully to complement both Sri PSK and Sri Injikudi/ Embar throughout the evening. His playing has great azhuttam. Their tani was brisk and energetic and I especially loved the unusual kOrvai at the end. Their playing for the dES kriti was a highlight for me.

There was a great turnout and the hall was more than 80% full last evening.

It was a special evening.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 04 Aug 2013, 07:39

Fantastic! And what a combination of artistes.
If a recording can be made available, I would be much obliged.

Also glad to hear that you could fill 80% of Raga Sudha Hall for a Nagaswaram concert! Well done, Bilahari and family.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 04 Aug 2013, 08:01

Yes! After I secure approvals from the musicians and Naada Inbam, I intend to upload all the concert recordings on the public domain.

Also met many forumites - Rajesh, CRama, Srikant, Sri Nageswaran, Nick, Sri yessel from Sangeethapriya. Thank you all!

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 04 Aug 2013, 08:15

Injikudi Subramanian@rAgasudhA hall on Aug 03rd,2013
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nAdaswaram : Injikudi subramanian
Violin : Embar Kannan
Mrudangam : Patri Satish Kumar
Kanjra :Anirudh Athreya

Concert duration/Day : 2 hrs and 20 minutes/Saturday
Concert Type : Nirvana (no concert to follow)
sabha/Hall : rAgasudha hall
Occassion : LS Mani - bilhari's thAthA rememberance day

1A. 4 mins of gambeeranAttai nadaswara alApana
1B.mallAri - gambeeranAttai - ???(help Lji)
2. tatvamaria tharamA (R,S) - reetigowlai - psivan
5 mins nadaswara alApana and 3 mins violin return and 4 mins swaras

3. ????(R) - hamsakalyANi - ????
5 mins nadaswara alApana and 3 mins violin return
2 mins swaras
4A. rakshabEttarE (R S T) - bhairavi - T
15 mins nadaswara alapana and 7 mins violin return
15 mins swaras
4B. tani for 16 mins

5. rAmA nAmA mEthudi manamE (R) - DEsh - Tanjore sankara iyer
13 mins nadaswara alapana in two stages with a 4 min violin return inbetween
6. ???? may be thirrupuggazh - ???
7. sketch of madhyamavati alapana

One has to first thank bilahari and his family for arranging a prime time sat evening nadaswaram concert with really top accompanists . THis is the first time I am hearing injikudi in a live concert.

Nadaswaram and its pairing combination of thavil requires a large open space as the sound volume is generally in the hyper side . Being ragasudha hall and with injikudi style bit more restrained than most nadaswara vidwans , with sensitive bowing by embar kannan , real top notch touch of percussion artists, the concert did not have any kind of hall related problems .

Injikudi has taken a style perhaps not in the lines of a strong blow and very prominent fingering skills of a typical TNR or karaikurichi , his style was kind of restrained . His start with an alapana and mallari was really good . One usually hears mallari in temple prakharam(corridor) and depending on the corridor size i am assuming the artist space the duration of mallari . Certainly injikudi brought in a great start and assumed he was playing in a big temple like kapaleeshwara temple than a ragasudha hall. The next in reetigowlai was played with the right intonation of word splits ,tatvam aria taramA indeed touched many of us in the audience- can there be any one who can say i dont like this number.

He moved on next where I wrote kalyani and then striked and wrote hamsadhwani. I thought he was not able to make up his mind with the two ragas . But fortunately he announced at the end of the rendition the raga is hamsakalyAni. I just googled to find out this raga hamsakalyani was creation of a contemporary composer Dr AshokMadhav(he himself used to write in our forum). our forumite nageshwaran told the number he played was a tanjore sankara iyer composition, I am not sure of the hamsakalyani number that he played . THe hamsakalyani number was a fast number , I felt perhaps due to unfamiliarity the team just did not gel that well. THis number appeared more like a fast filler that comes in between a main and rtp like say vara raga laya, certainly i was not that impressed with hamsakalyani

The style till the first 3 numbers of injikudi was definitely quite restrained , what i noticed was he was not lifting the nadaswaram and keeeping it very much rested in the floor . When bhairavi popped I could spot a kind of more prominent manodharmam bust . Bhairavi raga and nadaswaram is just a fantafabulous combination , during his alapana i could see he lifting more the nadaswaram and with brigas the alapana of bhairavi was very well done. Also only in bhairavi i noticed him blowing with more power . THe rendition of rakshabettare was kind of mixed bag , i found possibly he lost a bit of energy during the second half of the krithi . He regained it well with a dash of swaras and few koraippu swara patterns were lovely.

In the post main , his play in Desh raga just reminded shenai and ustad bismillah khan , the karvaais were longer and I felt his strength lies when he plays these kind of numbers . Tanjore sankara iyer masterpiece was a real bEsh, Desh really touched all of us . There was another number i did not get it and he wrapped with madhyamavati alapana

I had a bit of reservation when Embar kannan in electric violin was put as accompanist .But certainly he played very well, the volume of his violin was really towards kanyakumari- meant towards the south side. His play matched well but i still missed a nadaswaram support .

The percussion of an eminent duracell patri and young ANirudh was lovely, Patri reminds me of a guru karaikudi mani, the patterns are so fast and he keeps the concert steadfast and it never sagged . Also I personally used to think thavil with its left stick is becoming an excesss beat and it pounds my ears and with the mruduangam taking thavil place in nadaswaram is a real welcome change .

Having said all of this , few things could have gone much better in this concert

1. Blow blow blow . WE all usually associate nadaswaram for a very continous sangathi. Injikudi could have blown more with power and given a more sustained continuity in my ears . I think his style was not that much like a TNR or karaikurichi whom I adore . THough there is a touch of sweetness and melody like karaikurichi i still felt he could have been bit less restrained . Barring few places in bhairavi and desh , i misssed the continuity

2. In the first half prior to bhairavi i was expecting a very vistaramana submain or a real arresting fast number . Also he had all the time , the start was 06 15 pm , he could have gone with few nadaswara raga bhava soaked numbers. May be a pallavi or a ragamaliga swaras would have really pepped up the concert more.

3. I certainly missed nadaswara support that gives more charm then having electric violin . I am not sure if he has a supporting nadaswara artist or a sishya to accompany him,

Overall a very good to excellent concert for 2 hours and 20 mins.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 04 Aug 2013, 08:34

One thing I noticed with Injikudi from few of the contemporary artists , is that he spots an attire that is more prominent with today's performers . He was wearing a colored and checked jibba without flashy color. He did not apply much of vibhuthi or kumkum which at times pours in vidwans face . Also nice to see a good haircut . I personally feel he is doing the right moves for getting more accepted with a critical mass, personally not that i care.

Bilahari
He is subramania(n) not (m). His website is http://www.injikudiems.com/

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 04 Aug 2013, 15:34

Thanks for the correction about his name, Rajesh. This Subramaniam-Subramanian confusion is perennial for me, right down to my own family.

Thank you for your review, too. I was also expecting another heavier item during the concert. In fact, I thought bhairavi would be the submain. But the elaborate dES was so worth it for me.

I have heard Sri Injikudi with his wife accompanying on the nAdaswaram in San Diego in 2009 (review should be available on the forum), and I think the violin accompaniment can work if there is a violin with extraordinary azhuttam. However, there is an inherent tone mismatch between the two. And there is no way that all the nAdaswara brighas - particularly the fast, slippery ones - can be accurately reproduced on the violin. Sri MC is supposed to have evolved his 'viralaDi' technique based on the nAdaswaram bANi. I also detect a fair bit of nAdaswaram influence on the late Sri LGJ's style. I wonder if their styles might be especially compatible with the nAdaswaram. In any event, Sri EK's playing was sensitive throughout and I enjoyed it.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 04 Aug 2013, 21:10

I also detect a fair bit of nAdaswaram influence on the late Sri LGJ's style.

Interesting observation! I wonder if it is an indirect GNB influence...
I saw a lec-dem by Trichur Ramachandran on GNB and the nadaswaram style a few years ago in Cleveland featuring Injikudi EMS. Your comment made me think of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaSWtp9vqfU

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 04 Aug 2013, 22:10

Thoroughly enjoyable concert. I can say that I prefer the smoother, more sustained playing that I have heard from him before, and that we saw towards the end of the program, but this is a matter only of degrees of difference in enjoying.

Bilahari tells me that IS is the only nadaswaram artist to consent to playing with violin and mridangam. I am thankful to him for this, because it has opened up the possibility of enjoying nadaswaram for me. Even in the open air, I find the Thavil a little too much for my nervous system to cope with.

I have been lucky to catch this combination three times now, and I think that the certain something that Rajeshnat missed due to the absence of the nadaswaram support was there in the violin on previous occasions. Being an electronic instrument, the tone is going to be whatever is done with the knobs. I too found it dull and muffled, which put it too much into the background. It was a background, rather than a compliment, to the nadaswaram.

I wondered if Patri was sometimes using thavil phrasing on his mridangam. Anyone have any idea on this? I asked a musician friend who was there, who could only say maybe, but also maybe that was Patri's own style.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Aug 2013, 22:51

Bilahari - I am so glad the concerts went off well. I'm sure your family enjoyed it, and even more importantly, they will keep the memories of your grandfather alive and well!
Enjoy the rest of your stay, and safe travels back to Dartmouth!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 04 Aug 2013, 23:05

rshankar wrote:Bilahari - I am so glad the concerts went off well.

Hold on, there is more to come! A stupendous TNK tonight, and the final concert of the series tomorrow.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Aug 2013, 03:59

Nick - thank you for poitning that out - I meant to say the 'opening' concerts..

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Aug 2013, 08:07

Ah, the crowning glory! Waiting to hear about TNK's concert!

Nick,
Mrudangam, that too Patri's, would have sounded soothing and intricate at the same time, along with InjikkuDi's elegant (for the want of a better word) playing. I mean by that--also 'his smooth sustained playing', as you say it. Bilahari and family (all big time rasikAs) thought of the right match for Injikkudi. Aniruddh would have added to it by his energetic but toned down playing.

Embar Kannan's violin reminds me of his guru's playing when she was a young woman (accompanying MLV)--nothing but sweet-sounding. I haven't heard Embar play the electric violin.

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 05 Aug 2013, 12:58

Injikudi came to the scene like a fresh breeze about five –six years back. There was a void in the Nadaswaram scene for a long period. After the TNR-Karakurichi era, nobody could fill that gap. Even though there were many musicians of calibre, they could not attract audience attendence. I feel that Injikudi and Vyasarpadi Kodandaraman are the prominent vidwans who again brought the music lovers to Nadaswaram music. We should admit that.

Coming to the present concert, the concert was very enjoyable. NO second opinion about that. All the artistes on the stage gave their best. The start with Mallari was great. I am hearing a Mallari first time in the Nadaswaram. It was in Khanda Triputa talam. I remember he played in three speeds. Quite surprisingly, he played kalpanaswarams for the mallari. Reethigowla alapana was very good- using the time tested pidis for the ragam and with a few rounds of kalpana swaras. Hamsakalyani was a dampener. Other than it is a new ragam, there is nothing much in that. IT was confusing for many. Bhairavi ragam was well rendered with some unexpected phrasings also. Desh was the highlight of the evening. Regarding the absence a sub main before Bhairavi as pointed out by Rajesh, Injikudi plans his concert like this. Because there will be a Hindustani ragam after the thani which is his forte for which he has to allocate 20-30 minutes. His Desh, Yaman, Bagesree all are classics. There is constant requests from audience for these ragams.

The accompanists were wonderful. Embar Kannan ‘s violin gave me memories of L Sankar playing Bhairavi for SSI in the AVM recording in the eightees (Kamakshi swarajathi). His violin matched with the tone of that of LSankar. An ordinary violin will be no match for this vadyam. But second Nadawaram is the ideal accompaniment. Injikudi may very soon give us a concert with a Nadaswaram pakkavadaym. I feel the Nadaswaram was a bit restrained because of the absence of second Nadaswaram and tavil. I don’t know. More knowledgeable rasikas may respond to this. Embar’s playing was most appropriate – whether alapana or replies to kalpana swarams. Patri and Anirduh Athreya lifted the concert to a great height.
Thanks to Bilahari for arranging this series and his generosity in sharing the concerts for the music lovers. I am glad that I could meet him at the end of the concert.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 05 Aug 2013, 14:12

Crama/bilahari
Any idea of the raga and the number that he played post Desh. I thought it was may be a thirruppugazh or a kavadi chindu.

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 05 Aug 2013, 18:08

My memory tells me- a Thirupugazh in Chenjuruti.

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 05 Aug 2013, 20:21

Much had been written about Patri and nothing was excess. Still I can not refrain from mentioning. His drumming was superior when he played for the Desh. It was so soft very much matching the Desh exploration. In many places, it sounded like Tabla to match the Bismillaish Desh of Injikudi.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 06 Aug 2013, 08:48

arasi wrote:

"I haven't heard Embar play the electric violin."

It offers us a broad choice of words to describe it, ranging from 'Embarrassing' at one extreme and 'Electrifying' at the other.

)

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 06 Aug 2013, 11:42

Bilahari
Just started listening to the concert. It is just superb. I actually like the e-violin sound. Mridangam is great too. I rushed to hear my favorite DES...

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 06 Aug 2013, 19:11

Suji, where did you obtain the recording? I haven't even gotten permission from the musicians yet, let alone upload the recording.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 06 Aug 2013, 20:01

There's usually a few machines among the audience

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 07 Aug 2013, 13:24

bilahari, it is already uploaded by Mr.Yessel Narasimhan.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Aug 2013, 18:02

No wonder, Suji (another violin playing RasikA) could hear it, Bilahari!

Suji,
Good to hear from you after a long time

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 08 Aug 2013, 18:24

Due to a couple of distressing incidents, our family has decided to discontinue our series with Naada Inbam. I will not provide any recordings, and I apologise to rasikas who were hoping for these.

The music world is murky.

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 08 Aug 2013, 18:51

so sorry bilahari. I had seen lot of enthusiasim in you in organizing these concerts, taking pains to write analytic reviews, and coming all along way to chennai spending time and money.

May i request you to share the findings in separate thread in general discussions, so that some of us can learn lessons and not repeat same mistakes?

vichu1947 · Post by **vichu1947** » 09 Aug 2013, 12:01

@pattamma: it appears you are not a member of sangeethapriya discussion groups. Lot of discussions are happening on this controversy in their yahoo groups. I urge you to join the groups and read those discussion threads

The gist is that Ragasudha Hall owner lady has claimed copyright over all the concerts happening in that hall and has told that even if the concert sponsor/organiser (bilahari) and concerned artists permit, she being the "copyright owner" by virtue of being the hall owner should permit recording of concerts.

Dont know whether to

) or

(

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Aug 2013, 15:15

I think that the problem there is that we should be clear on all the terms and conditions before the event so as to save falling out over them afterwards.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 09 Aug 2013, 16:48

Copyright arguments had almost nothing to do with it. Anyway, let bygones be bygones. I received a lot of emails asking about recordings, and I just wanted to clarify that I will not be able to provide these. I really am sorry.

kamavardhani · Post by **kamavardhani** » 09 Aug 2013, 17:15

This particular venue, its late lamented founder and the present management have somehow acquired a sacred reputation... some sort of holy cow status that must never be questioned or attacked. Artistes and organizers, if you can catch them unguarded, will have lots of contrary tales to tell.

I would also add a word of caution about the person who uploaded the recording on the file sharing site...

vichu1947 · Post by **vichu1947** » 09 Aug 2013, 18:45

Nick H: I think that the problem there is that we should be clear on all the terms and conditions before the event so as to save falling out over them afterwards.

If venue provider has rights, then there is no end. As someone else has pointed out elsewhere, Cab company can say they have copyright as they only arranged transport for the artists. And Bisleri can claim rights as the artists were seen sipping the bottle during the concert .

kamavardhani: would also add a word of caution about the person who uploaded the recording on the file sharing site...

The uploader was S.L Narasimhan and he did after getting permissions. What do you mean by "a word of caution " about him ?? Such statements do not help.

yessel · Post by **yessel** » 09 Aug 2013, 19:26

I uploaded the concert. Pl. spread the word of caution about me for the benefit our members,

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Aug 2013, 19:48

Nice response, yessel.

This particular venue, its late lamented founder and the present management have somehow acquired a sacred reputation... some sort of holy cow status that must never be questioned or attacked.

Well, I don't know about that. I'm sure they can be criticised as much as any sabha.

What I do feel (and I admit that it is my favourite hall) is that, unlike many of the sabhas, it is not run by members and an elected committee, but is more like a house concert venue, where the owner chooses the music and invites others to share. There is no more possibility of standing for election, so as to influence the choice, than there would be, say, with the Musiri House concerts. Having said that, both of these examples are open to suggestions and recommendations.

I am sure of one thing: those in the arts are just as human as the rest of us. In fact, the artistic temperament quite often leads to an increase in sensitivity, demands, and dare I say it, ego, etc etc. Part of the skill of the performing artist is to leave that at the stage door. Appreciating that skill is probably more positive than expecting them to be superhuman .

(EDIT: Once I get going, I keep going... on to the next thought pattern... and that can be misunderstood. This was a general comment about life and all the arts and not about any of the artists mentioned here. It took my brain a while to suggest I mentioned this

)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Aug 2013, 21:21

Nick,
You said it.
Yes, my favorite venue it is too. The important thing is, as you point out, it is a chamber concert venue. Anyone can walk in and listen to good music there. Any artiste who wants to be heard by good listeners is keen to perform there. An old-fashioned, no nonsense venue it is, where music can be heard without any distracting hoopla surrounding it.

yessel,
Your straight-forward response is appreciated.

Bilahari,
I do not know the details, of course. I was waiting to contact you after you returned to the US and had got out of your jet lag.

We all realize, if and when we try to arrange musical events that 'artistic temperaments', as Nick points out, and other elements happen to come into the picture.
Just think! Though artistic temperaments prevailed in old days too,

those musicians did not live in the 21st century of new-found rights. Had they lived now, some of them, known for their greed, would have put up a fuss, and we would have been deprived of all the wealth of heritage music--not only the rasikAs, but the performing artistes too!

sridhar · Post by **sridhar** » 10 Aug 2013, 02:46

I don't understand the criticism of this organization. They must have given permission to Mr Narasimhan to upload the music (whom we are all grateful for the wonderful music he gave us). Judging by the high quality of the tracks this was not recorded sitting in the hall. In my eyes this organization has done great service to the carnatic music world. Looking forward to more such unique/wonderful/high quality music.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Aug 2013, 05:12

We all get starry-eyed when it comes to listening to our favorite music. What we hear transports us to such heights that when this harsh world hands us a reality ticket, we are in for a shock. Misunderstandings add to the harshness of it all.

Bilahari no wonder was distraught. Wanting to share with rasikAs his grandfather's (and his) love for CM in arranging for the concerts, taking time off from med school (not easy) to go all the way to India for the love for his grandfather and the music he loved. Those of us who know him, know of his zeal. A young man like him can get agitated when things go wrong. Still, it's heartening to see that he says "let bygones be bygones." I only hope what he said about the concerts in the coming years was all because of his agitated state. Wonder what his Thatha's reaction would have been. I do hope he and the family continue the concerts in the years to come...

Some of us, seniors at Rasikas, still have moments when we get disillusioned by human behavior--even after all the lessons life has handed out to us in our donkey's years! No wonder, Bilahari felt the way he did. Youth has less patience when the least expected things happen, after experiencing bliss...

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 10 Aug 2013, 05:28

Can rasikas.org get a contract template legally wetted and post it here in the forum to cover the recording and dissemination of music by an organizer rasika under the following circumstances:
1. The rasika/s arrange the concert with their resources and meet all the artistes remuneration and other expenses.
2. There may be limited sponsorships to help the rasika/s meet the total expenses.
3. Attendance is free.
4. The venue, publicity and the event banner may be different but paid for by the rasika/s.
5. The recording and subsequent dissemination has no commercial purposes or profit motive.

The rasikas can then use the template and get sign-offs before the event.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 10 Aug 2013, 16:22

We are all, perhaps, making some assumptions and jumping to some conclusions. Unless I have missed a post, I think that if Bilahari was going to make anything more specific public then he would have done so already. Of course we can discuss general and well-known issues. Suggest that the team split this off from the posts about Injikudi's excellent concert.

sridhar wrote:...They must have given permission to Mr Narasimhan to upload the music (whom we are all grateful for the wonderful music he gave us). Judging by the high quality of the tracks this was not recorded sitting in the hall...

That is a big assumption for which we have no evidence for or against. It is amazing what reasonably-priced pocket recording equipment will do, these days. Even some phones can surprise with their capability.

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 10 Aug 2013, 17:54

I can understand the pain and anguish of Bilahari. An event organised with good intention has given to rise to many unhappy events. But I pray that should not hit his enthusiasm and zeal. He should continue to hold concerts- may be in another venue, if necessary, and uploading is secondary. If there is copyright issue etc, he need not do it. But he can continue to pay homage to his dear grand father through good music and we all will be benefitted by listening to some good concerts.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Aug 2013, 18:59

I am sure Bilahari and his family want to continue doing something which would reflect what his grandfather cared mostly about.

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 10 Aug 2013, 21:32

I heard few songs of the Injikkudi concert recording, particularly mallari and bhaivravi keerthana ! what a magic... majestic music, and crystal clear recording. thank god, they didn't insist on removing the recording !!

Seems that, this is a line-in recording.

such brilliant music does need wider reach - whatever form, either sangeethapriya upload or through commercial recording..

vichu1947 · Post by **vichu1947** » 10 Aug 2013, 21:37

Nick H : We are all, perhaps, making some assumptions and jumping to some conclusions.

Nick H :It is amazing what reasonably-priced pocket recording equipment will do, these days. Even some phones can surprise with their capability.

Nick: It is you who is making all the assumptions. You have neither read the posts in sangeethapriya discussions group nor have you tried to check with Sl Narasimhan . You have assumed that SL Narasimhan recorded clandestinely using a pocket recorder or a phone. By doing that, you have cast aspersions on him, which is unreasonable.

Let me place this for the records. SL Narasimhan did line-out recording. In Raga Sudha hall, this is not possible without express permission by that owner lady. The PA guy wanted the lady to tell him directly which yessel arranged for. He also got permission from the artists.

Irrespective of how it was recorded , the rights of the recording never can be with venue owner unless it has been expressly transferred by organisers and artists. So she had no right to object. That is the point. So do not deviate and bring in extraneous issues about how it was recorded.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Aug 2013, 16:36

So do not deviate and bring in extraneous issues about how it was recorded.

I didn't, somebody else did. You didsn't see that I was answering somebody else?

You have neither read the posts in sangeethapriya discussions group nor have you tried to check with Sl Narasimhan

True. I only frequent this forum for carnatic music. Besides, I am not interested enough to investigate the source of a particular recording. And anything Yessel wants to say here, he will say here. Not for me to chase him, even if I were interested.

Apart from what I may have missed, I have based my responses in this conversation alone. You may have better information. Fine, but do not shout at me for responding to what is written here.

I cast aspersions on nobody. Tell me a concert where you did not see phones, recorders, etc, sitting on knees or even held in the air. Many would say, it is the tradition.

the rights of the recording never can be with venue owner unless it has been expressly transferred by organisers and artists.

And you know the terms of the contract here? If so, tell ...or the best we can do is assume. As I suspect you are doing.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 11 Aug 2013, 21:07

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 11 Aug 2013, 21:15

In this case who is the organiser? Jaya Mami or Bilahari?

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 11 Aug 2013, 21:28

Guys,

Jaya mami has always been the organizer of these concerts (they have been held as Naada Inbam concerts). My family merely provided sponsorship. We do not have any rights over recordings. Only mami's and the artiste's permissions are important in this case.

And please, please be sensitive to the numerous invisible forces (not merely the musicians in a concert in question) that cause much duress to organizers like Jaya mami when it comes to recordings. This monster is bigger than any of us and all of us.

Jaya mami, Sri Sekhar, and the folks at Naada Inbam organized these concerts with great enthusiasm and efficiency. We are truly grateful to them.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 05 Sep 2013, 18:46

Better late than never .The review of injikudi in The Hindu on Sept 05th of an Aug 03rd concert.
http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 096568.ece

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Sep 2013, 19:45

Rajesh,
Thanks for the review. A well-written one which brings the concert alive for us.

The proof readers at the mighty publication missed correcting the word 'daily'.

We are used to 'rAma nAmamE' and not 'namamay' and other 'y' prayOgams the critic uses here.

Wonder how Arun feels about it all

Another challenge for transliteration, I guess...

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Sep 2013, 20:41

I do hope that authors and editiors, especially of supposedly reputed papers like The Hindu, proof read their pieces for completeness as well as accuracy, spelling and grammar - I personally think that if I were Sri Anirudh Athreya, I would be very upset with the captioning of the picture that leads the review (where, although he is seen clearly on the dais, his name is not there in the legend below)...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Sep 2013, 21:46

Ravi,
Yes, and I missed it!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 05 Sep 2013, 21:57

rshankar wrote:I do hope that authors and editiors, especially of supposedly reputed papers like The Hindu...

Nothing in The Hindu gets properly sub-edited or proofread any longer :-Q

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 08 Sep 2013, 22:57

bilahari wrote

Only mami's and the artiste's permissions are important in this case.

And please, please be sensitive to the numerous invisible forces (not merely the musicians in a concert in question) that cause much duress to organizers like Jaya mami when it comes to recordings. This monster is bigger than any of us and all of us.

You have contradicted yourself.

If the artist is under contract to a recording company, they would/could object to the concert being recorded by people other than themselves.

Otherwise, your first statement stands and we would all like to know about what or who may be the numerous invisible forces.

Of course, the rules of the US National Security Agency may apply here: we can't tell you why we are banning recordings and you are not allowed to tell others that we are asking you to ban recordings.

Yes, let us blame it on the NSA!

The fact that Mr Essel has uploaded the concert to the sangeethapriya.org website shows that no objections were raised initially; perhaps because the objecting forces didn't expect an upload.

Mr Essel has publicly said that he will no longer record any concerts at this venue because of the controversy so obviously there has been some unpleasantness.

Peddle this BS about invisible forces somewhere else. I blame it all on the artists and the organizer; more on the organizer, who is claiming ownership of
copyright even in the absence of a written contract with the artists.

Isn't a claim of copyright void unless a copy is deposited with the copyright office along with a claimed copyright? That is the case for printed material. Bilahari, check with your lawyer dad on that.