New award for carnatic music

[Ponbhairavi]

A new award for carnatic music.
Let me make my post in a different format : F.A.Q
A new award in the carnatic music world..
Q.1 What? One more ? are there not enough already?
A.1Of course there are .But they are all given by sabhas. The sabhas are music suppliers and not music consumers. Hence no neutrality Each one advertises his own product considers his as the best and does not recognize others.In their programs ,they publicize only their awardees and do not mention even other awards as though they do not exist.Hence need for an award by a neutral body which is a music consumer.
Q.2 In what way you are better equipped than others?
A.2. Our forum consists of people whose combined expertise is more than that of any other selection committee.There are people with profound knowledge of this art ,perspicacious critics, music collection repositories,musicologists,music organizers and also music professionals. Hence our forum is technically superior to any individual award selection committee. Above all neutrality is a big plus point as our people enjoy great professional standing and reputation in their own field(doctors, scientists,engineers, professors business magnates etc..)
Q.3In what way your award is going to be different from others?
A.3At present all awards are given only to the main musician.Is it fair to the violinist and percussionist? If shruthi is matha and layam pitha the present awardees are orphans.Let a musician,however great he might be, sing all alone.The effect and quality is certainly not that of a concert.So music is also a team work. So our award will be a concert award given to all the members of a team ( as in games). The ideal team so picked will be performing to the public during the award giving function
Another important difference is that our award being international, will be above linguistic,regional and other parochial consideration which slur many of the existing awards
Q.4 .Since you have no sabha of your own, when and where will you give the award?
A.4. Not having a sabha is actually an advantage.The award cannot be tied to one place.It is common for the music world.The answer to the question when is “ an occasion when all the people of the music world assemble to pay homage to carnatic music figure which is above controversy.”The sri Thyagaraja Aradhana at thiruvaiyaru is one such occasion.
Q.4. The thiruvaiyaru aradhana committee is a separate independent body. Will they agree to such a joint venture?
A.4We will have to discuss with them.Actually it is not a joint venture.They will have all their programs as per their own schedule. We will not interfere with them in any way.The next day after all their celebrations are over we will have our award giving function and con cert.So it is an appendage to their function to which it will give some glitter. Of course we will share their organizational expenses for the extended day. It will give a tradition solemnity to our award which it will not get when it is held in a city hall or five star hotel.
Q.5.What do you suppose will be their demand.?
A.5 We do not know. We will have to discuss with them.But in our award we propose to include nadaswaram concert teams also along with vocal music. This would give recognition and impetus for the promotion of this difficult art form which has given to the carnatic music world giants likeTNR,Thiruvengadu Subramania pillai,Karukurichi Arunachalam.etc..
Q.6. will the musical fraternity cooperate?
A.^.They have no reason not to.Our forum having an international complexion will open up wider avenues to them.
Q.7. A concert team award means four or five people every year. What about the finances?
A.7.It has to be worked out.It is our wish to make our award substantially better than all existing ones.. We hope that other things being settled.resources will not be an insurmountable obstacle.
Q.8. The forum has so many divergent views.Who will be in your selection committee and how do you propose to bring about some unanimity?
A.8.Divergent views are there because experts are there.Our selection committee may not be a permanent one as in sabhas.It will be a committee,in which a certain percentage, say one third or one fourth will be renewable every year,. Details are yet to be discussed.
Q.9. when will you discuss and give a final shape?
A.9. This is the starting point of the discussions and may be it can come to fruition during our annual meet at shri Nageswaran,s place in Chennai in December.

[Nick H]

Our forum neutral? I think not. People cannot even discuss a technical aspect such as violin accompaniment without using their preference for a particular great name to beat those with preferences for another.

The most neutral award is to give no award at all.

Oh, wait... actually there is an award I'd like to suggest! How about a financial award for neglected widows of lauded artists! The music education trust funds and the celebratory concerts certainly don't put anything in their stomachs.

[cacm]

Oh, wait... actually there is an award I'd like to suggest! How about a financial award for neglected widows of lauded artists! The music education trust funds and the celebratory concerts certainly don't put anything in their stomachs.

I AM VERY MUCH FOR IT IF SOMEONE from CHENNAI starts a PRACTICAL PROJECT. VKV

[cmlover]

Well done Ponbhairavi !
Now let us hear from our membership.
It must be clear that Rasikas.org is only lending its name.
Any arrangement must be done by our membership collectively.
Of course we can assemble a committee to handle the financial aspects.
Nick has spoken. Let us hear from as many of the others as possible!

I believe you have good organizational experience in CM affairs.
I assume your services will be available..

[VK RAMAN]

Sangeetham ungaLai kaividAtu!!!!

[S.NAGESWARAN]

Dear Sri Ponbairavi,
Excellent idea.
“Hence need for an award by a neutral body which is a music consumer”.
We may correct it as “Global music rasikas” instead of a music consumer.
Nick’s suggestion is excellent. We may have to work out the modalities.
In case we decide to about the idea for giving an award for the best team,
We should be able to form the selection committee and select the music team and
Decide about the finances and other modalities well before the end of October 2013.
Then we can have the awards function at my home during the 2nd or 3rd week of December 2013.
It is better to conduct the function in Chennai {since many global rasikas will be coming to Chennai for the December music season] instead of at Tiruvaiyyaru.
S.NAGESWARAN.
24.08.2013.

[Nick H]

Thanks to VKV and Nageswaran for their acknowledgement of my thought. It is just that I am personally aware of one particularly bad example. Those more intimately involved with the music community probably know of many more such cases ---and are probably also already helping.

[vasanthakokilam]

I like Nick's idea as well. Let us just do it. We do not necessarily have to spend an enormous amount of time in the organizational matters to make it perfect. Their needs are most probably immediate. I realize that deciding on who to help can get complicated with a few different opinions which runs the risk of never converging. In the interest of convergence, let the knowledgeable folks in the forum decide on 5 families who are in direst need and allocate Rs.20000 each. This can include poor elderly musicians and/or their families. It will be great if we do not restrict it to just Chennai and surrounding area but I realize the difficulties with it.

The numbers I mention are just notional, they can be adjusted.

Let us then publish their names ahead of the fund raising effort. This way the donors can decide whether to support the effort or not. Doing it the other way, raise funds and then decide on people runs the risk of every donor having an opinion on who to help which can get out of hand.

Let us make a combined resolution to do something this season in December ( latest ). This way, even if people are not entirely satisfied with the decisions made, the time limit usually acts as an agent for converging on a decision without endless debates which runs the risk of not doing anything. In these cases, doing something even if not perfect is better than not doing anything. This can then sprout many branches thus extending the help to more people.

[cacm]

I agree with this initiative. Lets start discussing Names. I know S.Kasim & Babu are EVERY YEAR giving financial help thru' Dr.Sheikh Chinnamoulana Trust ( I am one of the V.P.S) to deserving Nadaswaram Artists & presenting Nadaswaram to aspiring new students etc. For Example I have been unsuccessfully trying to locate decendents of Alangudi Ramachandran- I spend part of my Madras time in this- who I am sure are not well off at all. Actually there is a long list starting with Sri. Ariyakudi's descendents themselves. IT REQUIRES persons who ARE IN MADRAS, who can spend the time etc. VKV

[cmlover]

VK
Good idea! Sri Nageswaran can integrate the award along with the Rasika's meet.
Even teachers of CM in dire need of help can be supported.
Nominations please...

[Nick H]

Goodness... a throwaway line almost... and it might lead to something good in the world. I am very heartened, and I need to be, as I have been disheartened by something else entirely.

At this point, I would prefer not to post the name of the elderly lady in need on the open forum. Some of my friends know who I am talking about. A quite modest amount of money would make a great deal of difference, and the same is probably true in many cases.

Artists may not be worldly, are probably often not wise, and may not even have been responsible in how they left their dependants. Families are not always exactly ideal either. It isn't about judging them (and we still, of course, speak highly of their music) but about seeing the need of the person left behind. That's part of my thinking, anyway....

[hnbhagavan]

I have heard that the legendary MDR left nothing to the family.Knowledgeable Rasikas in Chennai may find out.

[cacm]

I have heard that the legendary MDR left nothing to the family.Knowledgeable Rasikas in Chennai may find out.

YES. Actually my close friend PROF. V.Radhakrishnan who lives in Seattle( & his student) spent huge amount of time persuading Rukmimi Devi for Kalashetra to give a meager pension that was granted but NOT PAID for quite some time. It is HYPOCRITICAL to hear about how Kalashetra is promotoing our culture which it is when not taking care of persons on whose sweat it survived. Similarly Ariyakudi's grand son (as well as rest of relatives) was given a lowly job by the HINDU after enormous struggles.Persons who complain about CLEVELAND V.V. SUNDARAM should know he has PERSONALLY OUT OF HIS POCKET GIVEN AWAY AT LEAST TEN LAKHS to various musicians- many of them ALL TIME GREATS we are all writing about almost daily-....I am GLAD Rasikas are in the process of doing at least something by way of thanks to these greats.....VKV

[cacm]

Goodness... a throwaway line almost... and it might lead to something good in the world. I am very heartened, and I need to be, as I have been disheartened by something else entirely.

At this point, I would prefer not to post the name of the elderly lady in need on the open forum. Some of my friends know who I am talking about. A quite modest amount of money would make a great deal of difference, and the same is probably true in many cases.

Artists may not be worldly, are probably often not wise, and may not even have been responsible in how they left their dependants. Families are not always exactly ideal either. It isn't about judging them (and we still, of course, speak highly of their music) but about seeing the need of the person left behind. That's part of my thinking, anyway....

NICK,
INSTEAD OF WRITING PUBLICLY in this forum just send email to Vasanthakokilam or cmlover.

[hnbhagavan]

Dear cacm,

your reply on Sri MDR makes me feel very sad.Is his son well placed now?It would be befitting to present the FIRST RASIKA FORUM award to Sri MDR's family.

[cacm]

Dear cacm,

your reply on Sri MDR makes me feel very sad.Is his son well placed now?It would be befitting to present the FIRST RASIKA FORUM award to Sri MDR's family.

NOW THEY ARE WELL OFF & TO MY KNOWLEDGE DO NOT NEED ANY ASSISTANCE. VKV

[rajeshnat]

Ponbhairavi
There are two options that we are discussing , one is recognizing the award of musical merit in line with SK which we have put lot lot of good points .The other is to ensure helping genuine musicians more in economic need based criteria that Nick said .

I am game in for both- personally I prefer the economic needs based.We can discuss pros and cons for both till another 10 yugas , but I guess we have to take first steps towards that and move on. We can work something towards the goal and move forward.

[varsha]

I have heard that the legendary MDR left nothing to the family.Knowledgeable Rasikas in Chennai may find out.

It would be prudent to avoid - i heard - this - stuff , if we really respect the artists . The truth can never be known outside unless and until the family itself initiates the subject . Everything else is a waste of tears .
MDR does not come out as the guy who was into music to meet the affluent society's norms of what were the achievements .
I have been running a site featuring most of the greats of cm .
And I track the stats of what interests the world at large, which bumps in through search engines . It is a very unbiased assessment . For over a decade only four greats have topped the chart consistently beating the fifth by a huge margin . And they are
MDR - VOLETI - PALGHAT MANI IYER AND MSS .
Hmm - wonder if the Prima Donna left anything for her family . I know the amount of money she raised for charitable institutions .I have some idea how she lived in her own lifetime . And I guess I understand why I can see the gates of heaven, when she sings

It would be wonderful if direct references to the lifetimes works ( Rukmini Devi ...Sundaram ...Ariyakudi Hindu ....) are avoided . These things give a handle for unacceptable posts like in case of a Vidwan / member recently . This Vidwan or Sundaram in this instance, do not need this kind of advertisement . It may often be counterproductive .
I say this because I too know this gentleman Sundaram , - a perfect gentleman who arranged for trancribing into mp3 from tapes/ spools ..which would have cost me a couple of lakhs of rupees. He did not even ask for the cost of the cds. He chose to give it as wave files not mp3 - to retain the quality of recordings- and that meant more recording media ata time when they were pretty expensive .
This lily does not need gilding . More folks will rally around him it course of time . Just imagine him as the President of Music Academy. #:-s
Most of the tracks I upload have been made possible by this person . And I thank him everyday from the bottom of my heart .

[hnbhagavan]

Dear Varsha,

Do not interpret the word seriously.I heard means - In fact I read an article years ago that there was a fund collection drive for MDR's family for which many musicians also contributed.I do not recall the issue number,but for sure I read this article.
Things may be different now as VKV has clarified that MDR family does not need any assistance.

[varsha]

I made a contribution too . Through a friend who would be always rushing to be in time for the start of a concert exclaiming ---

It is an MDR Concert-The varnam cannot me missed .

I never accompanied him thanks to my reading of kannada paper reviews which labelled his music ,chauvinistically , as Rodana sangeetha . There was a period of - these tamilians are not singing kannada songs in bangalore - not realising that they were not singing tamil songs as well across the border .
My misfortune is mitigated a bit by technology . So it should be my sob story , in fact . Not MDR family's. Weep for the likes of me .
btw in the 80s there was a philanthropic mood all over chennai . I dont know if many are aware that many many people contributed to the treatment of the table tennis star chandrasekhar .What a player he was !!! And folks went from factory to factory , shop to shop to collect . But that story was a difficult one to swallow

[cacm]

quote="varsha"I have heard that the legendary MDR left nothing to the family.Knowledgeable Rasikas in Chennai may find out.[/quote]
THIS QUOTE IS WHY I DECIDED TO WRITE. I am willing to state I DID KNOW the status at that time.

MDR does not come out as the guy who was into music to meet the affluent society's norms of what were the achievements....TRUE but thats not the point raised.

Hmm - wonder if the Prima Donna left anything for her family . .......SHE WAS NOT INTERESTED IN MONEY.Having interacted with her I can say she & MMI & MALI WERE THE THREE LEAST INTERESTED IN THIS ASPECT...I know the amount of money she raised for charitable institutions .I have some idea how she lived in her own lifetime . And I guess I understand why I can see the gates of heaven, when she sings....I AGREE

It would be wonderful if direct references to the lifetimes works ( Rukmini Devi ...Sundaram ...Ariyakudi Hindu ....) are avoided . These things give a handle for unacceptable posts like in case of a Vidwan / member recently . This Vidwan or Sundaram in this instance, do not need this kind of advertisement . It may often be counterproductive ...........I KNOW V.V.SUNDARAM WELL& HAVE WORKED WITH HIM REG. Carnatic music efforts for over 45 years ever since he came to USA in 1968. I wrote it only because if you have read POSTINGS about Cleveland Thyagaraja Aradhana ANY FRIEND OF HIS will be forced to write what I wrote.

I say this because I too know this gentleman Sundaram , - a perfect gentleman who arranged for trancribing into mp3 from tapes/ spools ..which would have cost me a couple of lakhs of rupees. He did not even ask for the cost of the cds. He chose to give it as wave files not mp3 - to retain the quality of recordings- and that meant more recording media ata time when they were pretty expensive .....ITS GREAT YOU WROTE WHAT YOU DID.I WISH OTHERS DO SO ALSO.

This lily does not need gilding . More folks will rally around him it course of time . Just imagine him as the President of Music Academy. #:-s
Most of the tracks I upload have been made possible by this person . And I thank him everyday from the bottom of my heart ....GLAD YOU WROTE WHAT YOU WROTE.
PL EXCUSE ME FOR NOT SHIFTING TO LOWER CASE IN PLACES. VKV

[varsha]

Code: Select all

 I wrote it only because if you have read ....

I understand .You are older and wiser to the ways of the world . cheers

[hnbhagavan]

Dear Sri VKV,

Your postings are the need of the hour - upper case or Lower case does not matter.You had intimate contact with great Musicians - Sri Lalgudi,Ramani etc.
you can fill us with all that is missing for Rasikas like me who do not have such familiarity.

[hnbhagavan]

Dear all Rasikas,

Distribution of some money may overcome the difficulties temporarily.Is it possible to raise a trust among Rasikas forum to help needy musicians for treatment in times of need?This needs modalities for the following:
1. Continuous fund collection drive
2. criteria for identification of needy for treatment.
3. Acceptance by reputed hospitals at nominal cost for treatment.
I know this is a huge task and needs considerable effort.
This is almost along the lines of Prime Minister's Relief fund.
Rasikas in India as well as abroad can contribute in SIP method.Lump sum is welcome ,but SIP option is for those to contribute in small amounts.
I request Rasikas to come with a concrete plan.This I feel is the need of the hour and not just an award.

[varsha]

Ananya-Bangalore has a system in place already

[hnbhagavan]

Dear Varsha,

I saw the same in ananya Web.No details,but It says that Musicians are given identity cards and several hospitals have given concessional rates.This is an extremely laudable venture .Is it for musicians based in Bangalore and have contributed to music world?
Establishment of such schemes in each place like Chennai,Hyderabad would be a welcome step.
In case you know the details of Ananya medical scheme,I request you to kindly share in the forum.

[varsha]

I know this since I was associated with Ananya during the initial years .
I have not been in touch since I am not in Bengalooru

[Nick H]

Thank you, VKV... I attempted to send a mail to VK, but sent it to myself instead. Sometimes I wonder how I managed to make a proffession out of computers! I'll rectify that today.

This is a sensitive area: there are bound to be disagreements, and feathers might get ruffled. I remember ruffling a few myself a couple of years back with an assertion that descendants three or four generations down the line really should be looking after themselves, and not living on the name of the ancestor, however great they may have been. Whether people agree with that or not, I am sure that they will agree that the elderly who are left behind have no choice.

I don't have to tell.... A relative newcomer to this society need not tell those who were born in it what things go on. I don't mean to give the impression that I'm trying to <Blush>

[hnbhagavan]

The music profession does not guarantee a minimum return for all,however famous they may be.This is not comparable to say film music,where they make a fortune for each minute of song.The classical stuff is more difficult to pursue,but does not have the same following or even a small proportion of the same.Hence the efforts of Ananya with regard to medical assistance is to be appreciated.I agree that one cannot think of 3rd/4th generation,but it would be great if something is in place for the current musicians.

[arasi]

Gilding or regilding the lilies,
Honoring of every artiste at the gathering,
Introduction, vote of thanks, and other speeches--we can do away with.

VKV as time keeper, Two hours for rasikAs to mingle, considering late joiners;)

Nageswaran's hospitality contained (!). His house is always a hospitality center. Some of us providing the victuals, coffee and tea which can be enjoyed by rasikAs as they come in...
Then a quick half hour affair of giving the purses to the chosen artistes (or the spouses who are left behind...Of course, we have to decide about this in September and collect the contributions soon after (just a pledge won't do).

I am not alone in this, I hope. We do not need any preambles for the gathering! Two hours give us enough time to meet all those who come. Then, on the dot, VKV with the stop watch in hand can conduct a three minute introduction, someone speaking about the vidvAn/vidushi before handing over the purse (s), another few minutes for an informal 'Thank you!" by Nageswaran, and we disburse happily, carrying memories about meeting the maximum number of the forumites we have always wanted to meet--including the artistes/members here who are free to come that day.

If it's speeches and shawls, I will come only at the end when the purses are given. This is by no means a threat but my feelings (hope of some others too). Only that that I'm not keen on sitting for a long time listening to speeches. I'm all for a Rasikas gathering, and not for a formal occasion. This way, arrangements can be much simpler, and it will truly be a get-together and not a sit-together!

Nageswaran, would love to see your new house. God willing, I hope to make it to the season and to the meet.

Ah, about the purse---what does srkris think about it? How does he want the process to be organized?

[Nick H]

...arrangements can be much simpler, and it will truly be a get-together and not a sit-together!

Yes, I would also urge keeping it simple, procedure-wise, and keeping the non-social-interaction to a minimum.

I understand that VKV will not be here this year, so we cannot look to him to wield a stop watch.

[cacm]

Nick,
BOTH VKV & STOP WATCH ARE OBSELETE! Its true I am not coming this year to India. My wife wants me to act my age! My agreement was to come to Chennai till the GNB PMI MMI CENTENARIES WERE CELEBRATED! VKV

[Nick H]

So now... we have to wait another hundred years?

[cacm]

Nick, As of now pretty much the case! I am sure lots of persons are relieved! VKV

[arasi]

We are now in the second week of September. Are the Chennai rasikAs active in collecting enough information for choosing the awardees? How nice it will be, if Chennai and others in India show their interest in this by posting here first.

Nageswaran and others can discuss what they think and collect data, and then can write to the admin and moderators details by personal mail. Then, the names can be published. By the end of October, we should have chosen recipients. By November, contributions can be collected. All our young member are extremely busy with their jobs, but we do need them for this!
Rajesh was amazing in persuading the publisher reprint Yadugiri Ammal's book on Bharathi which was out of print for ages! He paid money out of his pocket, and when the copies arrived, the enthusiasm had dwindled, and but for some of us who wanted a number of copies, his labor of love did not bear much fruit That's why we need more rasikAs to respond now, for us all to gauge the interest level at first.

Since Nageswaran, with his generosity offers his home (as always) for the occasion, a few others can offer refreshments. Count me in for one. (Nageswaran, one item from your home is fine!). We don't need any other frills. Let all the money that trickles in go to the musicians' families, and to the artistes who are chosen for their contributions--one for vocal, and the other for an instrument.
We have to start working on this now, if this is going to happen. On the chosen day, rasikA's meet informally first, and then can can have a short award ceremony.

I am sure others have better ideas and more enthusiasm for this thing to happen...

[hnbhagavan]

A small committee of rasikas in chennai with Sri Nageshwaran as the Convener to decide the modalities of donation - may be bank account number provided so that Rasikas irrespective of their place of stay can easily contribute.
An executive Committee of learned Rasikas - Rsachi,VKV,Arasi etc - number limited to 8 may chose the artists for the award.it should also have a couple of humble Rasikas without much knowledge , but keen listeners like me for instance(not canvassing for myself!!!!!).

[arasi]

Folks,
Rajesh's experience which I have mentioned, and a few others which I've experienced myself, and several others where bills were footed by the admin and others make me rethink all this.

A wave of enthusiasm may ebb away when it comes to commitment, even to attend--let alone contribute. On thinking it all over, going over previous experiences, I am saying, let me not whip up any enthusiasm A shame it will be, if we are thinking of handsomely offering assistance to the families, and end up with clinking coins on the plate making more noise than contribution.

My feelings are, whatever we do, it should not be for our own glory, but for the good of the recipients. Thanks to contributors who don't think twice about, or want publicity for their generosity with which they help families which need assistance.

Sorry, if I sound as if lacking enthusiasm for an event like this. We are supposed to learn from life's lessons, that's all...

[cacm]

A small committee of rasikas in chennai with Sri Nageshwaran as the Convener to decide the modalities of donation - may be bank account number provided so that Rasikas irrespective of their place of stay can easily contribute.
An executive Committee of learned Rasikas - Rsachi,VKV,Arasi etc - number limited to 8 may chose the artists for the award.it should also have a couple of humble Rasikas without much knowledge , but keen listeners like me for instance(not canvassing for myself!!!!!).

I am STRONGLY of the opinion that a small committee of ACTUAL WORKER TYPES to EXECUTE the wishes of this rasikas group can be formed but the actual choice should be on the basis of something similar to cm lover's poll on sk choice. The FUNDAMENTAL STRENGTH of this forum is a commitment to EVERY MEMBER having their say on any subject. VKV

[Rsachi]

Hear Hear.
The process and the format can be moderated by a team, but the voting should be based on individual votes of rasikas, and everyone should have One Vote.
The aggregated result will then be "the Voice of Rasikas.org"

The onus will rest on the 'team' to achieve
- comprehensive list of artistes being voted for
- clear criteria for the award
- transparency in voting (no mass voting/bulk votes being cast for one or other)
- timing
- robustness (= simplicity) of algorithm
- approrpiateness of the award
- a prestigious way to present the award with grace and honour befitting the intent of Rasikas.org
-

[cacm]

Dear Rsachi, I agree. Of course you are both experienced as well as eloquent &knowledgeable. So YOU have to be a member of the committee. VKV

[VijayR]

... everyone should have One Vote.

I hate to be the one to burst the bubble, but how exactly are you going to enforce this? It is, quite simply, not possible in an anonymous forum. If you think that you can simply run an anonymous vote and bank on people voting just once or are considering a policy like each username will be allowed only one vote, then we should talk... I've got a bridge to sell you.

[alpajnani]

I hate to be the one to burst the bubble, but how exactly are you going to enforce this? It is, quite simply, not possible in an anonymous forum. If you think that you can simply run an anonymous vote and bank on people voting just once or are considering a policy like each username will be allowed only one vote, then we should talk... I've got a bridge to sell you.

Thats easy....just make the length of time being a member of rasikas.org and/or minimum number of posts as a qualifying metric (at least one other internet forum that I participate in does this routinely)

[Nick H]

VijayR has a point. It is an imperfect world!

alpajnani has a good answer, but again it might not be so simple

[VijayR]

Thats easy....just make the length of time being a member of rasikas.org and/or minimum number of posts as a qualifying metric (at least one other internet forum that I participate in does this routinely)

Easier said than done... (a) PhpBB does not have that feature, to the best of my knowledge, and (b) by trying to do that, you automatically start creating second-class citizens on the forum, when the whole point of this award was to be the voice of rasikas.org (and not the voice of some sub-set).

[Nick H]

The number of posts, and the date of joining, is displayed with each post.

I believe that the earliest date of joining displayed is "3 February 2010," which date was fixed at some change or upgrade of the software, however, bona fide members could be considered as minimum 6 or 12 (or something) months.

Not every person joining a publicly-accessible forum is genuine. Already the moderators of this and other forums need to detect and fight against those who create multiple membership IDs to push their own agenda. It happens.

This is not in any way about creating second-class users: it is about establishing a bona fide in a world where a lot of fides are not bona at all.

Even though I am saying all this, I have no idea how a mass vote could ever work in our nebulous community --- the conversation on sheer practicality, if this idea is to be progressed, probably has a long way to go.

[Rsachi]

I do believe a poll like the one we ran earlier for the criteria for rasikas' preferences in CM can be run with each rasika logging in with their rasikas log in and password. We can filter out duplicate votes. Plus there will be a time stamp and I address also for each vote. The voter's ballot will be kept secret by the moderator.

[Rsachi]

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... ey#p236817
The earlier survey thread.

[vasanthakokilam]

Are we still talking about a donation to a musician or musician's family who is in financial need or we are talking about an award based on criteria related to music? or both?

I personally think the first one is a nobler cause which brings immediate benefits to those who are in need.

One way to do this is to write about a musician or musician's family in need, act as a sponsor, publicly state how much the sponsor himself/herself is donating and asking others to join in that process. This way, it is completely voluntary, people can do this anonymously if they so choose and the whole thing is organized as informally as we can so we get it done faster and without any central authority managing the accounts etc. Each campaign/situation is separate and managed by the sponsor. The forum just acts as a means to make it happen.

I am saying based on my own personal experience with the financial hardships faced by my guru over the last decade and a half of his life. I tried to help as much as I can over the years. I was not quite public with it but reading between the lines of some oblique references I made, a member who wishes to remain anonymous sent some money to help out. I was floored by that gesture. I was expecting a small amount which definitely would be helpful. When I received the check, I was dumb founded. It was 20 times more than I expected.

This can be done in a semi-public fashion as well. For those cases, when the sponsor does not want to publicly disclose the musician's name or family, he/she can still write about the situation while redacting the name. Members can then contact the sponsor through email to know more information.

In these cases, the success of a particular fund raising effort by a sponsor pretty much depends on the reputation and trust factor of that member in this forum. In a way, that is the major contribution of rasikas.org to this effort.

[Rsachi]

VKM,
I think the idea of supporting indigent musicians is a wonderful one, and we can create a great process to make it happen.
There will be considerable issues of pride and reluctance on the part of musicians and pride and self-importance of major donors but that can be tackled also as well as feasible.
Helping musicians in need of medical assistance is best done in my opinion through a good insurance scheme supported by contributions ( 80% by the fund and 20% premium by musicians). The bulk negotiation and process will ease a lot of the strain and distress also.

I do think there is a separate theme I discern in these exchanges and it is about creating a rasikas.org award for musicians based on some criteria.

Anyway all great initiatives and I would like to be a part of them.
Sachi R

[vasanthakokilam]

OK, that makes sense. I will start a separate thread for the financial support initiatives for musicians and/or their immediate families.