VV Subramaniam - VVS Murari@BSU on Nov 07th,2013

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 08 Nov 2013, 08:15

VV Subramaniam - VVS Murari@BSU on Nov 07th,2013
-----------------------------------------------
Violin : V V Subramaniam and VVS MurAri
Mrudangam : Trichur Narendran
Ghatam : Tirupunithura Radhakrishnan
Occassion : Bharat sangeeet utsav organized by carnatica and parthasarathy swami sabha
Concert type/Day : Nirvana (no concert to follow)/Thursday

In carnatic vocalist genre , it is always been a learning curve for me to appreciate musicians. While I kept musicians like MMI-SSI-GNB in my own "vocal trinity league"(going perhaps with a prevalinig consensus in 80's and 90's), taking baby steps to listen to maharajapuram santhanam for many many years . Then over the years with available recordings I began to appreciate musicians who fell in the gap of half a generation away from vocal trinity who are extraordinary. Atleast three of them KVN, TRS , SKR had such a high caliber that has kept me wondering that I should drop atleast one of my vocal trinity league and replace one of them. All this callibration and recallibration always happens with vocalist as I (we?) go an extra mile to search for that half a generation away from vocal trinity league artists.

What about solo violinist ? We keep hearing TNK-MSG-LGJ as violin trinities , but half a generation away the generation of lovely violinist are hardly known to me(us?) as solo violin artist. Concerts for half a generation away from violin trinity are really too sparse and as a rasika it is just not possible even to have a basic impression of these artists. I love VVS as a violin accompaniment in particular few of the DKJ and TRS recordings . VVS has an amazing kalapramAnam , lovely sunaadam tone and gives in general the essence of raga bhavam so quickly, infact I have personally felt vvs accompaniment takes the best of violin trinities and also avoids the shortcomings of violin trinity. VVS hardly plays in chennai , there are always few concerts (perhaps not more than 2 or 3 a year) and I have missed them. I have heard thru grapevine for many years VVS kept up his commercial rates so high that many sabhas could not make him perform too. Atlast after many years of desire I made a visit to NGS Main hall on a working day to hear shri VVS - solo violin concert for the first time.

I was about 2 to 3 minutes late , i could not recognize the first number , the raga was Nattai?? and I am pretty sure he glided fastly in ghana raga pancha ratna ragas . Especially his varAli was stunning .I could spot his virtuosity of really presenting raga bhavam with different tonal qualities that are possible in violin .

THe no #2 in gowlipantu was stunning and very original. He generally goes with a brief alapana and at times he playing with a long jAru was very very meditative. The krithi terateeyagarAdA was played beautifully , he just reminded me of Shri MSG there. The next in nAdatanumanisham was played focussing on sahitya anubhavam, in this krithi he accentuated the words with his real vallinam and mellinam emphasis. His violin style was kind of Lalgudish in this krithi.

The 4th number in lalita started with one of the finest alapana, it was distilled essence of serenity of lalitA. He played alapana for just 4 minutes and it just striked so intensely. The long jArus in lalita was so beautiful.The krithi rendition of lalita was very good - it certainly was a case of aesthetic alapana of lalita that kind of eclipsed the shyama sastri krithi nannu brovu.

1. ???? - pancha ratna ragas krithi
pancha ganaragamalika varnam was composed by Sri VVS, the varnam starting in nattai.
2. terateeyagarAdA - gowlipantu - T
3. nAdatanumanisham - cittaranjani -T

4. nannu brOvu lalita (R) - lalita - SS
4 mins alapana

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 08 Nov 2013, 08:17

While first 4 numbers showed his style on brevity the main in kAMbOdhi showed his virtuosity , expansiveness and perhaps his intense control of the instrument. The alapana for 15 minutes had two distinct shades , the first 7 minutes was extremely tranquil - tranquility and kAmbodhi are usually mutually exclusive , but he showed his class there in defining that kind of calmBodE.In the second half it was the usually expressive roar of kAmbODhi. I immensely enjoyed his creativity there. The krithi with neraval was played exceptionally well, in swaras i could see a touch of musical orchestration where when murari played few sangathis he gave short orchestration like touch. Towards the 4th quarter of kAMbOdhi , i could sense a loss of bhAvam where I could kind of spot a few minutes of anavsiyam - a kind of like kunnakudi touch. But overall for a very significant portion kAmbodhi he played exceptionally well.

The tukkadas were all aesthetic in particular the neelambari alapana and uyyaala looga?? was well done . THe sindu bhairavi was very good and the jagadOdhAranA was also intensely emotive .

ON non musical fronts:
----------------------
VVS personally was not that happy with the sound feedback and at the midpoint of cittaranjani , the nadam was stopped for few nimisham where he said that this kind of sound mixing is not suited for CM . He quipped that these kind of sound mixing setup will only suit for orchestra and other forms of music. He particularly told as artists they have to hear distinctly what their co artists are individually playing and what musicians hear should not be the same as what audience hears . I was bit put off as he said all that stopping his play right at the middle of nAdamtanumanisham .Also towards the end he also acknowledged the excellent sound setup - possibly the feedback was corrected

A lady went and asked javali . He listened to her and said i will try. Then towards he jokingly quipped "I forgot sahityam of javali . he jokingly asked some one to arrange another concert so that he can play javali ".

Towards the end he asked his son how mamy more minutes is there , his son said 8 mins more and he exactly rationed and ended with a brief alapana of madhyamavati at 9 pm dot time. This kind of excess professionalism in timekeeping does not gel with me.

VVS murari gave lovely support and he took a bit of lead as and when VVS showed signs for him to play .The percussion department was impressive , I thought for kAMbOdhi there could have been bit more variety in narendran playing. THe ghatam artist radhakrishnan was extremely supportive with his intense azhutam and i liked his play a lot . The tani was quite good -nothing that exceptional.

It is bit of mystery as to why VVS is not playing that much in chennai. But his virtuosity, brevity and real high shruthi suddham was an extremely satisfying concert for me. Hope to listen to his second concert soon. I could atleast get a glimpse of Lalgudi and MSG in right measures and also a touch of his own originality - in the way he uses long jArus .

5A. O rangasAyi (R N S T) - kAmbOdhi - T
15 mins alapana
5 mins neraval "bHoolOka vaikunTam"
10 mins swaras
5B. tani for 14 mins

6. jagadOdhArana - hindkApi - PD
7. uyyaala looga(R) - neelAmbari -T
2 mins alapana
8. manadirkku ugandadhu??? (Raga sketch)- sindhubhairavi - Tanjore sankara iyer is not right
8. was karunai deivamE- sindhubhairavi- madurai sreenivasan
9. madhyamavati alapana

Overall an excellent concert for exact 2 hours.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 08 Nov 2013, 11:11

What a concert! VVS indeed transformed NGS into bHoolOka vaikunTam. Just exquisite playing. Playing Mrudangam for VVS' solo concerts has always been a tricky proposition & I somehow felt that the Mrudangam never really gelled along well with the violin. Most of the times it was just too loud with a lot of unwanted phrases here and there and it never really sat along with the thALam, while accompanying. Somehow the nAdham-deficient thooL vAdhyam never sounds good with the exquisite nAdham of VVS' violin.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 08 Nov 2013, 11:35

Sounds like a great concert!
Mods: could we please merge this with the thread started by Vijisubra (Smt Vijayalakshmi Subramaniam)?

but half a generation away the generation of lovely violinist are hardly known to me(us?) as solo violin artist

Rajesh, I am glad that you got to listen to a solid VVS concert. He gives excellent solo performances. There are a few reviews of his performances over the last several years, including one by Semmu (chamber concert at the Musiri house).

My biggest regret is that he is not SK this year. Oh well. It will probably never happen now

(

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 08 Nov 2013, 12:24

Semmu or any one else,
What was the first number that he played ?

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 08 Nov 2013, 13:24

The first Varnam is the gana Raga pancharathnam with Nattai, Goulai, Arabhi, Varali And Madyamavathi.

I am a great fan of VVS. The appropriate vallinam and mellinum, long jarus are his hallmarks while playing the violin.

I never miss his solo concerts.

I went up to the dais after the concert and congratulated him for his soulful and meditative music.

S.NAGESWARAN.
08.11.2013.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 08 Nov 2013, 13:39

rajeshnat wrote:
8. manadirkku ugandadhu??? (Raga sketch)- sindhubhairavi - Tanjore sankara iyer

8. Karunai Deivame Karpagame - Sindhubhairavi

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 08 Nov 2013, 14:07

S.NAGESWARAN wrote:The first Varnam is the gana Raga pancharathnam with Nattai, Goulai, Arabhi, Varali And Madyamavathi.

I dont think if there is a varnam in gana raga pancharatnam . May be he played some standard varnam and proceeded with the course of 5 ragas . If some one else who sat from the beginning can clarify the varnam with raga that he started- that would be great.

Harimau,
Changed the tukkada sindhubhairavi krithi . Tx.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 08 Nov 2013, 14:19

rajeshnat wrote:
I dont think if there is a varnam in gana raga pancharatnam . May be he played some standard varnam and proceeded with the course of 5 ragas . If some one else who sat from the beginning can clarify the varnam with raga that he started- that would be great.

The varnam started off in Nattai. It proceeded to Gowlai, etc., and the last raga was Sri and not Madhyamavathi as Sri Nageswaran had written.

I think it is VVS's own composition.

Purist · Post by **Purist** » 08 Nov 2013, 20:40

quote Rajeshnat ..." This kind of excess professionalism in timekeeping does not gel with me."

quote Rajeshnat .... 5A. O rangasAyi (R N S T) - kAmbOdhi - T
15 mins alapana
5 mins neraval "bHoolOka vaikunTam"
10 mins swaras
5B. tani for 14 mins

? ? ? ? ?

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 08 Nov 2013, 21:35

I know where is Rajesh coming up from... almost all concerts in chennai is for 2-1/2 hours or so, and end by 9pm, even on weekend....

Hope some sabhas start concert at 4pm and can go on until 7.30pm or 8pm.....

trichur c narendran · Post by **trichur c narendran** » 09 Nov 2013, 10:23

I am grateful to semmu86 for opening my eyes for the first time in my 52 years of concert experience for his authentic review "that the Mrudangam never really gelled along well with the violin. Most of the times it was just too loud with a lot of unwanted phrases here and there and it never really sat along with the thALam, while accompanying. Somehow the nAdham-deficient thooL vAdhyam never sounds good with the exquisite nAdham of VVS' violin."

Now only I understand that what I have learned and experienced for the past 55 years have gone down the drain. But one thing I can say that as long as Veteran vidwans like VVS,TNS and others happily accept my accompaniment I will keep playing. If you have any problem you can ask the main artiste to choose better accompanist who can save the concerts from such disasters.

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 09 Nov 2013, 12:58

The pancha ganaragamalika varnam was composed by Sri VVS.

The last ragam is Sri and not Madyamavathy.

S.NAGESWARAN.
09.11.2013.

appu · Post by **appu** » 09 Nov 2013, 20:35

semmu86 wrote:What a concert! VVS indeed transformed NGS into bHoolOka vaikunTam. Just exquisite playing. Playing Mrudangam for VVS' solo concerts has always been a tricky proposition & I somehow felt that the Mrudangam never really gelled along well with the violin. Most of the times it was just too loud with a lot of unwanted phrases here and there and it never really sat along with the thALam, while accompanying. Somehow the nAdham-deficient thooL vAdhyam never sounds good with the exquisite nAdham of VVS' violin.

Semmu86,

Trichur Narendran is definitely the torch bearer of the Palghat Raghu school. I have heard him perform many times and his accompaniment is definitely very controlled and restricted to enhance the concert. Your statements were very caustic and in poor taste. A "thool vadyam with no nadham" does not define Narendran's technique.

Among all students from that school that I have listened too, Bombay Balaji, Vinod Venkataraman, Trivandrum Balaji etc, Narendran is definitely in the fore front.

In a public forum, showing some restraint is highly appreciated. Please take into consideration that the sound system was not at its best. You a mridangist very well know that, that alone can add to the disparity of sound and no amount of control could rectify that.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 09 Nov 2013, 21:21

Having heard Narendran so many times, especially accompanying KVN, I was surprised to read those comments of Semmu. Now I understand it was the bad mike system.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 10 Nov 2013, 17:05

Point(s)
The dilemma of the critic has always been that if he knows enough to speak with authority, he also knows too much making him unfit to speak with detachment
**
The moment criticism exercises any influence, it ceases to be criticism .The aim of a true critic is to try to chronicle his own moods ,not to try to correct the masterpieces of others. (Oscar Wilde In an interview)
---------
Counterpoint
It is advantageous to an artist that his work should be attacked as well as praised.Fame is a shuttlecock.If it be struck at only one end of the room, it will soon fall to the ground.To keep it up , it must be struck at both ends. Samuel Johnson

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 10 Nov 2013, 18:24

:ymapplause:
I wish to crown Varsha the "Quotable Quoter Royal" of Rasikas.org.
Please bring on the paraphernalia.

appu · Post by **appu** » 10 Nov 2013, 21:30

[quote="rajeshnat"]VV Subramaniam - VVS Murari@BSU on Nov 07th,2013
-----------------------------------------------
Violin : V V Subramaniam and VVS MurAri
Mrudangam : Trichur Narendran
Ghatam : Tirupunithura Radhakrishnan
Occassion : Bharat sangeeet utsav organized by carnatica and parthasarathy swami sabha
Concert type/Day : Nirvana (no concert to follow)/Thursday

Rajesh

In the picture posted I do not see Tirupinuthura Radhakrishnan on the Ghatam. Who is the gentleman sitting to the left of Narendran.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 10 Nov 2013, 21:52

appu wrote: In the picture posted I do not see Tirupinuthura Radhakrishnan on the Ghatam. Who is the gentleman sitting to the left of Narendran.

Seated next to vidwan Trichur narendran is vidwan MullaivAsal chandramouli- he is a performing violinist whose guru is shri VVS.

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 10 Nov 2013, 23:20

Semmu86 might have commented about the mridangam playing by Sri Trichur Narendran in a subtle way.

However, the nadam coming from the mrudangam was not matched with the melodious music of VVS.

I have always enjoyed the nadam coming from Sri Trichy Sankaran and Sri Umayalpuram Sivaraman.

Semmu 86 may elicit more information as to the nadam produced by Sri TRY Sankaran and UKS compared with the nadam coming from Sri Trichur Narendran.

S.NAGESWARAN.
10.11.2013.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Nov 2013, 00:07

Varsha wrote: The aim of a true critic is to try to chronicle his own moods

Yes, indeed. I will add that we should make absolutely clear with no ambiguity that the chosen words reflect only one's own opinions and moods and not anything absolute and as statements of fact. Especially so when talking about the giants and veterans of this great discipline. I am sure Semmu, a respectful member here with good reputation, meant it in that spirit but I wish he had chosen his words keeping with the above principle. Let us move on before this side issue distracts us further from the topic.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 11 Nov 2013, 18:38

trichur c narendran wrote:Now only I understand that what I have learned and experienced for the past 55 years have gone down the drain. But one thing I can say that as long as Veteran vidwans like VVS,TNS and others happily accept my accompaniment I will keep playing.

Narendran Sir & Others, Pls accept my apologies for the delayed response. I was so surprised that a personal opinion of someone so insignificant and musically illiterate can draw so much of attention. With your expertise & experience, I thought if at all you happen to see my post, you would have dismissed my useless post and gone ahead with better things. I apologize, if it had offended you.

If Shri. Narendran happens to be a regular at this forum, he would for sure know that this is not the first time that a "Not-So-favorable-personal-opinion" about an artiste was written. I thought this forum was to express one's opinion without any bias. Its not as if my post was a dismissive rant or a rude remark, offending the artiste. If the artiste just wants all the good things to be written about him & not open to such things, I apologize again personally to him. Am sure he will excuse me with all his magnanimity & expertise that he has gathered over so many years.

trichur c narendran wrote:If you have any problem you can ask the main artiste to choose better accompanist

Apologies. Am none the wiser about this. As stated above, Am too insignificant a guy for you to entrust such a responsibility.

trichur c narendran wrote: save the concerts from such disasters.

Apologies again Sir. With your blessings & my limited capacity, the least I can do is to save the forum from a BIG disaster by NOT visiting this place EVER AGAIN. I pray to the almighty that your stellar accompaniment & vidwath continues to enthrall rasikas for years to come.

Mods & Others :: The intention of this post is not to argue and carry this ahead by robbing the thread of its musical content, but merely to clarify on my post.

Thanks a lot for your understanding. Good Bye to everyone.

appu wrote: Your statements were very caustic and in poor taste.

Thanks for your feedback. You will not have the trouble of seeing my posts here at all again. Regret the inconvenience caused, if any.

HR · Post by HR » 11 Nov 2013, 19:43

Lovely Lalitha Alapana -- the sudden plain note / phrase played during the raga elaboration (especially in a raga like Lalitha) enhanced the alapana so beautifully ; Lovely kalpana swarams in Kamboji - the last swaram was brilliant ! Such a beautiful Sindu Bhairavi ... really wished the concert did not end so soon

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Nov 2013, 20:24

Summu86, I clicked on the thumb ... but not for your stated intention to leave us.

Just as we request artists to take an unfavourable opinion in their stride, so must members take in our stride the fact that not everything we say pleases everyone.

I request everyone to consider the following two sayings:

You can't win 'em all.

and

You can please all of the people some of the time or some of the people all of the time.
You cannot please all the people all of the time.

If all will remember this, the upsets will still happen --- but we'll all still be on the forum the next day and the day after.

Believe me! I've been in a few hot-headed scenes here myself.

(Of course, that was in my younger days...

)

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 11 Nov 2013, 21:55

Sri Narendran avl: I don't think anything personal was intended. Reviews of performances of artistes reflect what rasikas experienced on that particular day and do not represent a negative opinion on anyone's long and glorious career. People should accept this in all fairness.

This forum is meant for people to express their views fairly. And negative criticism is part of the package. Having written several dozen reviews here myself, I recognize that it is not possible to please everyone. Dissent and differences are constructive parts of this forum. Having to apologize for negative opinions is not a good direction for any free society.

Semmu, I wish you would reconsider your decision to leave. I find your opinions to be balanced, well-stated and clearly articulated. I did not find anything caustic in this review. I have enjoyed interacting with you on several topics (including mridangam related ones) and it would regrettable if this incident resulted in you leaving the forum.

Just as we request artists to take an unfavourable opinion in their stride, so must members take in our stride the fact that not everything we say pleases everyone.

I agree.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 11 Nov 2013, 22:19

mahavishnu wrote:Reviews of performances of artistes reflect what rasikas experienced on that particular day and do not represent a negative opinion on anyone's long and glorious career.

That's all ! Narendranji, there's nothing more to this than that. I personally know semmu to be a balanced rasika who has an excellent, respectful attitude to all artists.

mahavishnu wrote:Semmu, I wish you would reconsider your decision to leave.

Of course.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Nov 2013, 02:54

Semmu - I really like reading your take on things - balanced, and usually very fresh, so, I'd like to add my request to Ramesh' and Uday's to not leave - and I think it will do well for all of us who post on fora like these to remember that we need to develop a skin that is 3-parts armored plate and 1-part rhinocerus hide to help deal with some of the comments our statements can give rise to.
I am not advocating a uniform 'water off a duck's back' attitude, but at the same time, no one needs to rival Mimosa pudica

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 12 Nov 2013, 03:53

Dear Semmu,

It is not anyone's intention to curb your right to critically review a performance, but the same message can be said in a lot of less-attacking ways, especially when the artist involved is not a novice. In this regard, I would like to suggest that sticking to technical details and facts would be taken well by any artist, and since Sri Narendran has been performing for a long time, he would have faced many critical reviews like any leading performer.

Your "Somehow the nAdham-deficient thooL vAdhyam never sounds good with the exquisite nAdham of VVS' violin" does seem to be a blunt (un-nuanced) statement. Apart from your observation that the mridanga and violin did not gel with each other, this statement sounds more like a tirade and does not give much in the way of constructive criticism (I mean just this statement not the entire review). Just my criticism of your criticism

don't take it in the wrong sense.

appu · Post by **appu** » 12 Nov 2013, 03:57

Semmu86

I agree too with Uday, mahavishnu and Shankar that your opinions have been balanced in the past. Let us take just this instance.

I bring to your attention the following word or phrases in your post
"unwanted phrases". As a torch bearer of the Palghat Raghu bani I do not think any phrase executed by Narendran could have been unwanted.. Principally a lack of knowledge to understand that deep execution could have been the root of your confusion and hence probably the choice.

"Nadham deficient thool vadyam". All students of this school play on a kappi muthu and as such this thool vadyam does not carry the ring that comes with kucchi muttu. As a student of the UKS school, i SPECULATE you are very used to the ring that comes with a kucchi muthu. We as rasikas have to develop a ear to appreciate this instrument and the associated nuances.

I am sure greats like Tricky Shankaran and others have developed the ability to produce the Nadham you are used too on a Kappi muttu. That is a separate discussion all together.

Once again it was just the choice of words in regards to a Vidwan who has been performing for 5 decades. Granted it is one mans opinion. I sincerely wish it did not get this far.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Nov 2013, 05:05

There, Semmu! Ravi calls it the 'touch-me-not' attitude--the way we rasikAs and artistes react to criticism at times

We very much want you amidst us. Each member brings a different perspective to the forum (along with his/her preferences in music, and knowledge too, with some). Every now and then, someone gets hot-headed, and that's understandable but is not preferable.

Also, exits are not pretty. The feelings they leave behind are mixed. If you don't leave, you don't have to come back! If not now, you can post whenever you feel like it.
You have been one of us, rasikAs, not only on the forum but off it, where the music really happens. We both have been in several concerts together and more so others who live in Chennai and value you as an individual and a fellow-rasikA.

Well, the 'words' with which you expressed your reaction are the culprit, it seems. Not your opinion (we all are entitled to ours). Nothing else. It's unfortunate that a seasoned artiste like Narendran (who is used to critics) reacted emotionally to your post. Had he sent you a personal mail first through the forum, it would have been better.

In a single review, or in different reviews of the same artiste--had he gone through even a dozen of the hundreds of reviews which are posted here--he would have realized that criticism isn't aimed at artistes with any personal agenda. If it does happen, a few people jump in, or the post is deleted.

Rasikas.org has several fine reviewers who rival the professional critics, and also others who are not experts but want to share their concert experiences.

Semmu,
Please don't find the Exit door. Stay

There have been a few occasions when I have glanced at the Exit door but it was not easy to say goodbye to one of my favorite spots. Why mimic mimosa pudica, as Ravi says?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Nov 2013, 05:21

Appu,
Our posts crossed. I appreciate your patient way of explaining the different styles of playing the vAdyam.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 12 Nov 2013, 07:20

I wish to crown Varsha the "Quotable Quoter Royal" of Rasikas.org.

Offer declined . Regards [-x

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 12 Nov 2013, 07:42

I beg to disagree. If semm86 wants to leave that his choice. If we apply the same rationale, if folks can not accept criticism of their so-called "expert views" expressed on a public forum ...

There are a few others in this forum who dish out unbridled barbs, my question is can they handle the rough criticism of the same token; as Jack Nickolson would say "can you handle the truth ?".

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 12 Nov 2013, 08:15

Dear Semmu, Narendran, mods and fellow rasikas,
I suggest we step back and look at what exactly happened here.
1. A great concert, with shortcomings in mike settings.
2. Semmu's report, with added 'poorly' worded remarks from a biased, rival mridangam school viewpoint.
3. Reaction from Narendran taking offence.

All this situation requires is an apology from Semmu to Narendran. We love both of them to be in the forum and we should learn and move on.
Anything more is unwarranted and unhealthy.

tiruppugazh · Post by **tiruppugazh** » 12 Nov 2013, 09:12

I don't find anything wrong in that Semmu has written. It is his opinion and artistes better learn to live with it. Just because Mr Narendran expressed his fraustration doesn't mean rasikas have to tone down. If the proponents of the Snake song, Monkey song, Ghost song, who are also competent and skilled professionals choose to write in this forum, will the remarks against them be asked to be toned down? <Admin: Ad hominem attack edited to prevent this thread from further deteriorating >. There are other mirudangam artistes from the Palghat Raghu school who have a much better tone and naadham.

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 12 Nov 2013, 10:41

print hello world. c

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 12 Nov 2013, 10:53

arasi wrote:It's unfortunate that a seasoned artiste like Narendran (who is used to critics) reacted emotionally to your post. Had he sent you a personal mail first through the forum, it would have been better

By the same token, had semmu sent a personal email to Sri Narendran about what he thought did not gel well in the concert we would not be discussing this issue. IMHO there is every reason for even a seasoned artist like Sri Narendran to take offence to what was said - bcos what was written (may be not intended) was not a statement that a mridangist could brush aside.
As some have pointed out, unfortunately, youngsters in particular, incorrectly think that the ring tone from Kuchi mridangam is what is "nadam". Nadam is the divine wholesome fulfilled sound that comes specifically from the balance of edam and valam.
Sri Narendran: I have heard you play for KVN in the early 80's US tour - you uphold the same tradition and style of playing even today. Your nadham and verve is still youthful. It is very hard for people to understand how difficult it is to accompany for the ARI and KVN style, and you have succeeded in that, and the proof is the no of concerts you have accompanied Sri KVN. In fact, you have made proud both Sri Raghu and Sri PMI for not changing your style for want of "mass appeal" (good or bad). Even last year I heard your accompaniment to Palghat Ramprasad, and your playing hardly revealed your age - but trust me, your grey hairs did.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 12 Nov 2013, 10:59

Rsachi wrote:All this situation requires is an apology from Semmu to Narendran.

I have already apologized. But that dosent mean, that i go back on what i have said. I still STAND BY & VOUCH for whatever I have written. I apologized only because Shri Narendran mistook that to be personal, which i made sure that it is NOT. I have no vested interests with anyone for me to post personal comments about any artiste.

Rsachi wrote: Semmu's report, with added 'poorly' worded remarks from a biased, rival mridangam school viewpoint.

This is so funny. You have neither met me nor do you know about me for you to make this remark. People here know about my admiration and fan following for Mrudanga vidwAns coming from other schools. So I dont need to justify myself to this remark of yours. Pls dont add fuel to the fire, with such "POOR" remarks.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 12 Nov 2013, 11:42

Ok. I don't know you or your reasons for making your remarks. Sorry.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 12 Nov 2013, 12:19

Sri VVS, who had complained earlier that the feedback monitors are no good for Carnatic music and he would prefer to have them switched off, said to Mr Venkatesh (the audio engineer) after the tani avarthanam that he must have done something wonderful as the naadham of the tani was just superb.

It is entirely possible that what we hear in the auditorium is colored by internal echoes in the hall.

In that case, semmu would not necessarily be incorrect in his assessment.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 12 Nov 2013, 15:00

I just talked with semmu86 and asked him to stay in the forum. He said he would . He himself decided it that way, not that I persuaded him. Just relaying the info.

semmu86 and Shri narendran,
In the history of our forum , we have never seen a point and counter point offered where vidwans/vidushis have openly come out with their identity and posted each of their posts-without any camouflaged ids in a single thread.Appreciate your participation.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Nov 2013, 15:57

CommonMan wrote:By the same token, had semmu sent a personal email to Sri Narendran about what he thought did not gel well in the concert we would not be discussing this issue. IMHO there is every reason for even a seasoned artist like Sri Narendran to take offence to what was said - bcos what was written (may be not intended) was not a statement that a mridangist could brush aside.

If everyone communicated by email there would be no forum.

Artists (and not just musicians) place themselves in a position that many of us would find hard to handle. They express themselves, often their deep inner selves, in public places. What happens when someone expresses deep, sincere, inner feelings, and someone else cries out, "Rubbish!" For artists such as writers, painters, sculptors, etc, this is a regular occurrence, and one that they have been used to since art school. The critic may be experienced or inexperienced; they may be right or wrong; indeed, critics of the critic may cry, "Rubbish!" But no-one can, and no-one should, silence the critic.

As some have pointed out, unfortunately, youngsters in particular, incorrectly think that the ring tone from Kuchi mridangam is what is "nadam". Nadam is the divine wholesome fulfilled sound that comes specifically from the balance of edam and valam.

It is a different nadam, yes, but it is the fingers that make the nadam rather than the kutchi or the kappi*. I have to confess both that I used to say, "a person who gives no nadam might as well be playing another instrument, for what is the voice of mridangam?" and and that I have since come to appreciate those players who are not so string in nadam too. In saying this I speak generally, and must emphasise that I am not criticising any person.

Voice of mridangam is an entirely other topic, perhaps for another thread. This is about person speaking, not about drum speaking. And, whilst taking usual care, we all have the right to speak --- and to speak about speaking.

I began this post before the arrival of visitors. I am glad to see Rajeshnat's post.

[
*Anticipating argument: How can I say this? Am I a mridangist? No, you all know that I am not. But anybody who has spent enough time in mridangam class to be able to passably play nam, dhin, chapu, knows what is involved, and the more so if they have watched many other beginners and practised on different instruments, as well as hearing and seeing actual artists. Even if they never learnt any other strokes, any lessons or accompaniment, they would have some understanding of the sound of mridangam. On the other hand, however many violinists I see, and however much I have read the theory, I can never speak of the action of a bow on a string, because I have never tried; I have never acquired that skill at any level.
]

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 12 Nov 2013, 22:11

harimau wrote:Sri VVS, who had complained earlier that the feedback monitors are no good for Carnatic music and he would prefer to have them switched off, said to Mr Venkatesh (the audio engineer) after the tani avarthanam that he must have done something wonderful as the naadham of the tani was just superb.

It is entirely possible that what we hear in the auditorium is colored by internal echoes in the hall.

In that case, semmu would not necessarily be incorrect in his assessment.

Harimau,
YOU have hit the nail on the head. Why don't you use your EXPERTISE+WIT to concentrate on the TERRIBLE state of affairs in Chennai Auditoria- to me they are as loud& bad as Movie Theaters in Chennai forcing me to retire from going near them- With your incisive style, KNOWLEDGE and ability to elicit responses for once may be we can try to realise what is called "WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN" in terms of sound reproduction in the concerts & do justice to the efforts of the artists instead of just throwing words like BOSE Speakers etc. VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 12 Nov 2013, 22:17

NICK, I just want to state that the GREAT Palghat Raghu used to say that if he played any stroke a thousand times he got it right only once! There are levels of excelence & just "harping" on the technical aspects of the structure, sound etc is self defeating I feel. VKV

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Nov 2013, 22:25

Anyway, after all that discussion, point and counterpoint a la kuch tO lOg kehEngE, or may be even along the lines of aduvum solluvAL (with a gender switch), can we please call a halt to this thread? Can the mds please, please do the 'yathA sthAnam paritishThApayAmi' to this thread by locking it?
I do not think we will get anything more from having these discussions anymore - and I certainly wouldn't want to say 'bhulOka vaikunThamu idi yani' now!!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 13 Nov 2013, 01:47

cacm wrote: just "harping" on the technical aspects of the structure, sound etc is self defeating I feel. VKV

I guess that is why I "moved on" (nothing concious or creditable, it just happened) from turning off if certain pre-determined aspects were not there.

rshankar, conversations come to a natural close, and my feeling is that this one has, or will very soon.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 14 Nov 2013, 08:44

Thanks everyone, I hope everyone had their say. This thread is now locked.