CM: the need for reinvention

[kvchellappa]

Essel narasimhan posted this in Sangeethapriys forum:
http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/phtN6yl ... ntion.html

[cmlover]

Thanks yessel narasimhan!
This is a provocative discussion which must be widely open and distributed.
TMK is the only one who has the capacity to carrry it forward.
This Forum is an ideal arena to thrash out new ideas!
Let us see whether there are takers!

[vasanthakokilam]

It is perfect topic for a lounge discussion over a cup of chai or other favorite drinks. I am not sure if it will go anywhere but it will be fun nonetheless.

But then there is already a recent thread on CM reinvention, isn't it? ( sponsored and underwritten by the drink of choice of the old generation!! )

[kvchellappa]

One Mr. Sundaram has given the links to the earlier parts in sangeethapriya:
http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/BV3CT6J ... hange.html

http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/XWKKl6r ... ahead.html

http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/phtN6yl ... ntion.html

[VK RAMAN]

Reinvention is happening with the Help of Ilaya Raja, AR Rahman, Shankar Mahadevan and a score of them, who are not recognized by the so called Puritanists; that is all

[rshankar]

I am not sure if it will go anywhere

Oh, it will, believe me...it's known as 'back to the future'.....

[venkatakailasam]

Kumaresh: Reinventing Carnatic Music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8PbwTuhZXY

It is one of the subjects that is discussed on many occasions at different forums..

http://ier.sagepub.com/content/36/2/131.extract

this covers 1900 to 1947..

[vasanthakokilam]

Oh, it will, believe me...it's known as 'back to the future'.....

Yup, good point.

In one sense, there is evidence it may have already happened once. T.M. Krishna mentions in his lecture that carnatic music has slowed down compared to how it was, say, pre 1900. That is worth pondering a bit. A slower rendition gives space for properly sculpting a swara along the recognized contours. That gives a rendition the 'weight and classicism'. In that sense, taken over such a long period of time, the 'reinvention' as a natural process seems to have taken CM in a more classical direction.

[cmlover]

IMHO the reinvention wiill be the consequence of injecting active computer interfaces.
For example incorporating an intelligent chip in the microphone can compensate for shruti deviations and even
tala slips. Further it can expand the octave potentials of the singer.
Kalpana swarams will be more lively as Computer Assistedd Swarams (CAS)..
There will not be any limitations on experimenting with new ragas.
Even the Grammar of CM may be modified to permit innovations. I am thinking of the dwimadhyama ragas.
which Kalyanaraman introduced whose potentials were never exploited.
Even a deeper mathematical analysis of CM Grammatical Structure is warranted.
It may be like transition from classical physics into modern physics!
Automatic computerized accompaniment is a distinct possibility.
(Think of the movies Jagathalaprathapan or ThiruviLayaDal...)

[srikant1987]

How do you make classical music relevant to a global audience? Should you even try?

No.

Try to make global audience appreciate classical music instead.

[ramamantra]

No.

Try to make global audience appreciate classical music instead.

Right perspective !

[Nick H]

I'm sure there are valid points to be made, but I don't feel like reading articles about reinventing carnatic music when the whole idea seems absurd. There is no need to "reinvent" carnatic music.

[rshankar]

I'm sure there are valid points to be made, but I don't feel like reading articles about reinventing carnatic music when the whole idea seems absurd. There is no need to "reinvent" carnatic music.

Absolutely!

[kvchellappa]

Maybe the contents have valid points, title may be misleading. Other comments on this suggest that. There is need to reinvent ourselves at times.

[Nick H]

... There is need to reinvent ourselves at times.

[VK RAMAN]

NIH - not invented here syndrome might go against that as Mecca of Carnatic music should accept it irrespective of the preference of the fans and rasikas.

[arasi]

"Looking at CM differently--from different perspectives" is fine by me.

The words "need" (really?) for and "reinvention" seem a bit too strong for me!

In my view, CM can be CM, no problem there and folks can go around it, examine it, and can come up with new ideas (no problems again), but not to refurbish it to such an extent that you don't recognize it as such (heaven forbid!). And, call it invention by merely rearranging furniture either!

CM lends itself to endless experiments by virtue of its being so rich and being so deep-rooted. Any amount of fooling around with it cannot make it change its own persona.

Temple decorations (alankArams) have changed over times, but the gods who reside in them are the same from times immemorial. CM is something like that.

I am not that much of a dance fan as I am of music. I don't even know how to fully appreciate it.

I just read about the week long residency of Malavika Sarukkai in Philadelphia. I have not seen her in live performances, but have followed her in youtube clips and in interviews. To an outsider like me, she seems like a dedicated dancer whose professionalism and expression are very impressive. I am certain she is not 'reinventing' dance but is doing something to it which is unique--her expression adding a new dimension to our appreciating a fine form of art?

For that matter, many other dancers and musicians of merit are doing it all the time.

I also wonder why we need anything reinvented in CM when we have (for example) have thousands of old rAgAs which even after being sung and played a million times have hidden in them aspects which still need to be explored and brought out. We have had such moments of 'eureka!' in concerts and even in a few of our own amateur singing moments!

So, searching for newness in what is already there, I'm all for. Is reinventing the same?

Playing Shakespeare 'newly' by setting it in say, the twentieth century (in dress, setting alone) does not spell invention. The text of the play in its original sense and spirit should not be sacrificed for a mere facade. If done right, yes, it will enrich the presentation and reach the present day audience--as we all long for CM to reach the young.

[kvchellappa]

Nice articulation of great thoughts.
Sometimes we get carried away by new-fangled words or a new usage of a word, as it happens in language when initially we tend to use newly learnt words rather inappositely (like this word itself, which I picked up quite long ago).
Mind wearies of routine and looks to leap. Tradition cries a halt and classicism looks the other way.
What we oppose normally is a wholesale change, that hammers a thing past recognition. We do not like to see a belle turned to a hag in a jiffy.
But, all living things change subtly over time, and when one analyses it, the change over time is drastic, like they say some ragas have changed. But, the change has been within the limits of classicism.
I have heard both TMK and Sanjay say that a new expression of the art, without aberration of the grammar, is happening with all creative artists. BMK referred to Bani in evidence of this. With all his maverick ways, TMK has not done anything out of tune with the classical style of CM. In fact, he is one of the authentic torch bearers of this genre of music. I was listening to Narmada's Ecstasy (courtesy Parivadini) today. What an apt title! She has stuck to the essence of whatever she played or sang (she sings so melodiously). Such artists have a talent that is waiting to burst forth. The art form is sure of its being intact with them even as they try something new or traverse uncharted territory. They do not create something new per se but do something new in the existing form, that has stamp of creativity. Varadarajan talked of Sanjay as 'a creative artist'; yet, Sanjay is strictly a traditionalist, reminding one of Somu or MDR at times. Abhishek is another artist of such creativity.
Reinvention is a strong word, but a churning is going on and good music is resulting.
I know I have said more than I understand, but I could not get over my impetuosity.

[arasi]

Chellappa,
A great post!
The way I see you is all reflected in your post A true rasikA--though belonging to the older generation (like some of us), the one who looks for renewal in CM.

I was thinking more of such listeners of music (I don't question their taste or opinions--we are all entitled to ours) who may misunderstand the word reinvention--those who work in the periphery of CM (fine) but take it way away from the purpose of it. I am speaking from my own (simple enjoyment of music) point of view which has nothing to do with any elitist stand. All kinds of music appeal to me, and I like them all to flourish without altering a genre into something so far away from the base that it becomes unrecognizable !

We are influenced by Bharathi, you and I (among others) on this forum. His open-mindedness and world view appeal to us no end. In his looking at fine arts, he had great regard for bhAvA, content and expression--the form keeping its own characteristics intact--exploring, but without (sorry for the cliche) dilution.

I also see posts in this thread by younger folks who sound older than some of us in guarding CM

An excellent example you have given is of Dr. Narmada, one of us at Rasikas.org!

[cacm]

I'm sure there are valid points to be made, but I don't feel like reading articles about reinventing carnatic music when the whole idea seems absurd. There is no need to "reinvent" carnatic music.

I AGREE THAT THERE IS NO NEED TO "REINVENT" Carnatic Music". AFTER SPENDING CLOSE TO 60 YEARS I find that there is ENOUGH ALREADY contributed by many giants if we can EVEN UNDERSTAND LET ONE REACH THEIR LEVELS OF CREATIVITY & PERFECTION we will not be "CONNED" by PSEUDO SELF APPOINTED EXPERTS who have the time& ability to mislead those who dont have or spend the time to weed out the fakes.....VKV

[VK RAMAN]

Did Carnatic music written by Tyagaraja come with Chittaswaram; why Purandaradasa, Annamaya and Ramadasu did not become part of the Trinity. That is why we need reinvention?

[arasi]

VKR,
Yes, we need to understand how it all came about.
Just to make a guess, it could have been for a number of reasons:
those who pronounced these things did not know about other greats, and even if they did, not to the extent they knew of the ones they praised and labelled (such as Trinity). Geographical distances was one reason. Even the Trinity wouldn't have been called that had they lived in different states! Also, provincial pride might have disqualified others.

In today's world, it's all different. We know musicians from other states and countries and of their merits. Ideally, in a technologically advanced society, ignorance of the existence of other worthy musical personalities need not be there at all.

Have rasikAs also got to reinvent themselves? Refresh themselves and develop new ideas? Clinging to the old beliefs of course, but throwing out some outmoded ones--

"pazhaiyana kazhidalum pudiyana pugudalum" To discard the old and usher in the new. Discard the ones which have expiry date on them and welcome new and healthy trends--all without shortchanging CM.

[Nick H]

Imagine a great hall with people passing through it.

At the two sides of the hall are pillars. On the one side, these pillars have the name Tradition and on the other, Reinvention.

A significant minority stop, on one side or the other, to beat their heads against their chosen pillars. They do so until they bleed, and it makes a dreadful mess.

The majority pass on undeterred and and uninjured. They value tradition, and are also happy to try innovations, some of which get incorporated, many of which fall away. Perhaps it is not always the good that are accepted and the bad that are rejected, but that's life. It is these people that determine the future, and they don't spill their blood all over the floor in doing it.

(Just letting my imagination roam )

[rshankar]

Nick has hit the nail on the head without blood loss (sorry, Nick - could not resist)! There is one more aspect to this: Don't we justly pride ourselves on the fact that 'Indian' 'tradition' (I really do not like either word in this context) is a live one and not static and that this is what has allowed it to survive for so ever long by bending, incorportaing, and becoming infused with new ideas without breaking? I think it happens very subconsciously over time, with the discarding of things that did not work, and acceptance of those that do.
For example, I have been impressed by how the movements in bharatanATyam have become fuller, crisper, and kinesthetically beautiful over the last several decades (I have not observed stage presentations decades ago, but there is some evidence - like archeological evidence if you will - in the dances from old movies from the 19040s and 1950s that preserve the movements of those days) - What is 'traditional' execution of a given aDavu for instance is not just different from how it was many decades ago, but also more esthetically apropriate - but at the same time, the similarities between the two are actally more than the sum of their differences - what I interpret as 'living' tradition.

[munirao2001]

Any art form consists of 1. Personal and Impersonal; 2.Static and Dynamic; 3. Creative and Re creative, building the edifice for the Tradition. Tradition is to be correctly understood as form, body and works of excellence. Let us now examine, briefly, the three vital factors:
1. Personal and Impersonal: All the thinking and actions leading to the self appreciation and self satisfaction are personal. All the thinking and actions leading to the self delight, in unity with universal self are impersonal.
2. Static and Dynamic: Core elements remaining static, not amenable to change and outer layers encompassing the core elements welcoming change is dynamic.
3. Creative and Re creative: The thought and works, afresh and anew not related to the existing thought and works are original. Act of making the unknown, known. The thought and works, anew related to the existing thought and works, either a variant, its modifications or reproduction is re creative. Act of making more, the known.
Only the time tested and proven works delivering the value and quality satisfaction with immense potentialities and possibilities attain the hallmark of excellence. No updating is required as they are immortal. Best understanding and deep appreciation results in uncompromising state of mind. All the attempts for change are rejected outright and vehemently. Tradition is a celebration of excellence.
Indian Classical Music suffers the myth making and idolatry. Myth making is resorted to establish personal as unique impersonal and universal in appeal and acceptance. Idolatry is resorted to fortify one’s own deep appreciation with the declaration of uniqueness and unsurpassed. Both are far removed from the truth.
Two goals of Indian Classical Music are 1. Spiritual and deified consciousness. 2. Mano ranjakatvam-pleasing the minds (of listeners). By its very nature, pleasing the minds demands contemporariness and reinventing. Creativity focus is on variants and modifications, of sensory experience, acoustic and emotive, of the original works. This demands proficiency and efficiency, excellence is not conditional. The success is uncertain. Other type of creativity focus is on fusion, synthesizing the alien with the native auditory and sensory experiences. This demands better techniques, understanding, adjustment and adaptations to attain the popularity and success.
Globalization of Karnatic music experience will face both the push and pull effects. Senior citizens rasikas reveling in outwardly extolling the values of deep classicism but in reality not patronizing but supporting the popular stream with sheen of classicism, a push effect. Middle age and youth rasikas support contemporary and intelligent technological adoptability and reveling in the fast changing tastes demands and values, giving a pull effect. Push and pull effects compel the artists for a clear, unambiguous and unpretentious choice on the professional practice and pursuit.
Karnatic music appreciation of original and deeper values did undergo change in the past and neglect is total. Few performers giving the glimpses of the richer experience, if not the complete, will continue to receive the patronage, selectively. It is the age for experience of novelty of aggressive and high octane rhythmic Karnatic music with the label of contemporary and global reach. For the restoration of the pristine and pure Karnatic music and its experience, rasikas must be honest, dedicated and committed to support the performers to achieve success by the practice of simply keeping it classical, with primacy for raga/melody-rich in gamaka and visradhi and perfect balance and sense of proportion of all the creative tools in Karnatic music. The past and the present history do not give hope and confidence of the future. Only radical transformation, commitment and dedication will usher the change.