Cleveland Thyagaraja Festival - April 1-12, 2015 - Live webcast on iCarnatic.org

icarnatic · Post by **icarnatic** » 15 Mar 2015, 00:37

Dear Rasikas,

iCarnatic.org is proud to be associated with Aradhana Committee (http://www.aradhana.org/) to webcast the 38th Annual Cleveland Thyagaraja Festival Live from April 1-12, 2015. The concerts can be viewed live from April 1-12, 2015 and on-demand from April 2-30, 2015.

Please visit http://icarnatic.org/ for subscription details.

Regards

Team iCarnatic.org

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 03 Apr 2015, 12:47

I did not know about free web cast in india. Did any body try how was the quality, please include your comments?, May be if i have time and silence i wish to try at home.

sivakami · Post by **sivakami** » 03 Apr 2015, 18:02

rajeshnat wrote
I did not know about free web cast in india. Did any body try how was the quality, please include your comments?, May be if i have time and silence i wish to try at home.

Yes, one can see the live webcast free. I donot know whether it is possible to watch those videos afterwards for free. Only that we have to wake up in the wee hours (IST) to match their 5.15 PM. Yesterday, I saw Madurai R.Sundar and the Malladi Bros. Today, I overslept and had to miss..
The quality was Ok during the kutcheris, but was very disturbed (almost inaudible) when Sundaram Sir spoke.
Tomorrow's panchratna seva is in the evening for us, and I am looking forward to it..
Many thanks to icarnatic.org, for this wonderful arrangement..

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Apr 2015, 18:42

Sivakami,
We had the glitch of not being able to hear VVSundaram when he spoke, the first few times. Yesterday, it was taken care of. I'm glad you are part of the audience. Write about your impressions on the festival too from the twin cities in Andhra!

Nick,
There is so much going on in Cleveland and with some of us, our every day lives are diverted no end, like a wedding in the family!

There are two threads on Cleveland now. This, and the one in the Concert Reviews section which I started.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Apr 2015, 22:00

I donot know whether it is possible to watch those videos afterwards for free.

From the iCarnatic web page, one has to buy the India package ($50.00) to watch the archived videos on demand.

icarnatic · Post by **icarnatic** » 04 Apr 2015, 02:07

The live webcast is free for viewers in India. Viewers from India can get access to video on demand by subscribing to the 2015 Cleveland Aradhana festival.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Apr 2015, 06:00

Sent you mail. No sound for Sonal Mansingh's performance the past twenty minutes or more

What the phone number w ecan call you at?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Apr 2015, 06:23

Thank you, got the sound back nearly at the end and heard the nusic for the final item...

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 04 Apr 2015, 08:01

As far as I know the free streaming is only for India and that is ridiculous. There are so many NA people who can not make it and should be able to watch the event. To me it looks like yet another drive by the Aradhana Committe to make some extra bucks! Didn't they charge a fee for the uchavanti procession that would have made Thyagaraja turn around in his grave!

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 04 Apr 2015, 08:17

It is ridiculous to insist on anything free that too from someone who must be able to pay. If the organisers want to make money, there is nothing out of the way in it. As explained, it costs money to conduct the festival. Thyagaraja minded his own business and was devoted to Rama. He did not look for unsolicited support from an NRI and those who conduct festivals in his name and sing his songs do him more honour than someone who expects freebies. Harimau's question whether he teaches for free is to the point.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 04 Apr 2015, 21:30

As far as I know the free streaming is only for India and that is ridiculous...

So, what else should Americans get free?

OK, so all Americans are not wealthy, and all Indians are not poor, but I imagine you must know something of the economic differences and, say, the likelihood of an elderly, Indian music lover being able to pay "American" prices?

Anyway, I don't care: I'm not watching it. I think that the webcasting of concerts, and their publicly available archiving, is wonderful, but I'm in Chennai, I'm spoilt, and I like my music live.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Apr 2015, 23:56

To me it looks like yet another drive by the Aradhana Committe to make some extra bucks!

Déjà vu

Your previous post on the same topic and others' reactions to it etc have been moved to this thread: http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 91#p280342

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 05 Apr 2015, 05:58

I retreat a few steps and agree that iCarnatica should charge US viewers. But a well advised suggestion is charge for the ticketed concerts and stream others free such as pancharatna, prize ceremony etc. Let us see how many will pay and watch the ticketed programs.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 05 Apr 2015, 06:56

RKrishnamurthy wrote:Didn't they charge a fee for the uchavanti procession that would have made Thyagaraja turn around in his grave!

How about dropping off a 100-pound bag of rice as your donation to unchavritthi?

Instead of finding fault?

Or, is charity a word not in your vocabulary?

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 05 Apr 2015, 10:23

Yudhishtira begged for at least five villages hoping to prevent a cruel war. Maybe that is the inspiration for the tenacity to extract something free! Why bother who buys or not? Best thing is, Sri RK, organise a parallel festival and offer it free t everyone.

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 06 Apr 2015, 08:49

"How about dropping off a 100-pound bag of rice as your donation to unchavritthi?

Instead of finding fault?
Or, is charity a word not in your vocabulary?"

I can drop off ten bags of rice. The problem is next year they will come with a statement" Those who are attending the Aradhana at the Cleveland State University will be breathing our air so we are charging 20 cents per minute to breathe in the auditorium"

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 06 Apr 2015, 08:49

"How about dropping off a 100-pound bag of rice as your donation to unchavritthi?

Instead of finding fault?
Or, is charity a word not in your vocabulary?"

I can drop off ten bags of rice. The problem is next year they will come with a statement" Those who are attending the Aradhana at the Cleveland State University will be breathing our air so we are charging 20 cents per minute to breathe in the auditorium"

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 06 Apr 2015, 11:06

Listening to art creative works is getting pleasure of the mind-entertainment or spiritual. Event management demands management with high efficiency. To achieve such high efficiency, resource management including very critical financial resource is a must. It is common knowledge. When one allocates funds for self gratification of other pleasures with will, why event management need is ignored and justified to overcome the ignorance?
Every listener and discerning listener of art music must will to allocate fund and also offer support in one's own interest and universal interest and cause of art growth and development.

munirao2001

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 06 Apr 2015, 11:54

RKrishnamurthy wrote: I can drop off ten bags of rice. The problem is next year they will come with a statement" Those who are attending the Aradhana at the Cleveland State University will be breathing our air so we are charging 20 cents per minute to breathe in the auditorium"

So now you have become an astrologer and started predicting the future!

Tell you what. The Aradhana Committee is a tax-exempt charity and gives a receipt for cash donations.

Why don't you scan and post on this web page your receipts from the Aradhana Committee? For any year?

What, cat got your tongue?

I know what has gotten into you. Your legend-in-your-own-mind son has not been featured at the Aradhana this year.

If next year he is slotted to play for big-ticket artists you will be singing the praise of the Aradhana Committee.

You are pathetic beyond belief!

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 07 Apr 2015, 07:57

So now you have become an astrologer and started predicting the future!

Tell you what. The Aradhana Committee is a tax-exempt charity and gives a receipt for cash donations.

Why don't you scan and post on this web page your receipts from the Aradhana Committee? For any year?

What, cat got your tongue?

I know what has gotten into you. Your legend-in-your-own-mind son has not been featured at the Aradhana this year.

If next year he is slotted to play for big-ticket artists you will be singing the praise of the Aradhana Committee.

You are pathetic beyond belief!

I accuse you of the same sycophancy who ever you are. At least I post under my own name. Yes I was a bit harsh and I apologize. VVS and I have known for years and we may not be "friends", but we tolerate each other. As for your pointing fingers at my son, VVS or SK or whoever it is did assign him an evening slot this year. Only that he could not accept it because he has a recording session the same day and he informed them accordingly. These days he is interacting with Zakkir Hussain and other Emmy Award winners. So a concert in Cleveland is not his fate maker. People of your ilk should identify yourself and come up with suggestions and criticisms of who think are "enemies" of CM rather than hide behind the skin and preach big time philosophy. I have been associated with Cleveland for more than a decade and has seen its progression. I can see how it has become too "commercial" and money is all that matters. They have a right to do what they want and my feeling is the participants will eventually see through it. By the way you should read an article I wrote in The Hindu few years ago about the plight of NA artists. If you haven't I can send you the link if it still exists. I pity people like you.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 07 Apr 2015, 08:15

Pity, we are wasting our time over something utterly useless like this

''Money making" however doesn't fit in this context, I think. "Finding money" is more like it--to run a festival of this magnitude--with a sack of rice, ticket money or big donations, whatever...

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 07 Apr 2015, 11:51

RKrishnamurthy wrote:
I accuse you of the same sycophancy who ever you are. At least I post under my own name. Yes I was a bit harsh and I apologize. VVS and I have known for years and we may not be "friends", but we tolerate each other. As for your pointing fingers at my son, VVS or SK or whoever it is did assign him an evening slot this year. Only that he could not accept it because he has a recording session the same day and he informed them accordingly. These days he is interacting with Zakkir Hussain and other Emmy Award winners. So a concert in Cleveland is not his fate maker. People of your ilk should identify yourself and come up with suggestions and criticisms of who think are "enemies" of CM rather than hide behind the skin and preach big time philosophy. I have been associated with Cleveland for more than a decade and has seen its progression. I can see how it has become too "commercial" and money is all that matters. They have a right to do what they want and my feeling is the participants will eventually see through it. By the way you should read an article I wrote in The Hindu few years ago about the plight of NA artists. If you haven't I can send you the link if it still exists. I pity people like you.

So your son is now interacting with Zakir Hussain and other Emmy Award winners, eh?

Is he doing it for free? Is he getting remunerated?

I should read an article by you? On what? That Thagaraja lived on a bowl of rice a day but your son is making big bucks and enjoying champagne with his steak? Don't send me any link. Send it to the round file. Enough North American artists (I shall presume you are talking about CM here) such as Ramakrishnan Murthy and Sandeep Narayanan are sitting in Chennai making a mark in the field. If your son wants to sit in the US and expects people to knock his doors down offering him concert slots, he and you have got great expectations. He should make his billions from his mridangam patent.

As I said, you still haven't shown a receipt for one single measly dollar that you have donated to the Aradhana.

I have no idea about the Great Annual Tamasha as I have called the Cleveland Festival elsewhere but I don't attribute crass commercial motives to the organisers like you do. Nor do I run them down for trying to raise funds to bring 100+ artists every year to Cleveland. If the participants will see through the shenanigans as you have said, your son should have declined to participate on principle rather than because of a sheduling conflict.

I don't pity you, I pity the poor students who have been taught by you for the last 30 years!

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 07 Apr 2015, 12:31

The organizers have a monumental task each year for organizing festival of this kind.It is difficult to satisfy all the rasikas and musicians.Any organisation over the years develop preference to certain artists and they get chances each year.Looking at Cleveland list,It is a good combination with 30-40% repeat and the rest drawn from galaxy of available artists in India-mostly Chennai and abroad.

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 07 Apr 2015, 14:56

I am reluctantly entering into this. The thread is taking a different turn. It reminds me of Chinna katchi Peria katchi conflict some 60 yrs back at Thiruvaiyaru. Let us sink all our differences and work together.
Thanjavooran
07 04 2015

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 07 Apr 2015, 18:34

Yes, Thanjavooran!
Only difference is, they were fighting over TyagarAjA--their egos fueling them

Yes, Bhagwan,
Eleswhere I have written about it: so be it that there are some repeats. It goes with their wanting to help out--teaching, here and from India, playing for tiny tots too, and enjoying Cleveland's volunteering spirit which puts them to work most of the time!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 08 Apr 2015, 02:32

Two educated individuals getting down and dirty for what?

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 08 Apr 2015, 08:56

BETTER TO LIGHT A HANDLE THAN CURSE THE DARKNESS--the fact is that Cleveland Festival is the ONLY ONE in N.A that has done most to propagate CM for over 37 years--many institutions in N.A. would not have been able to arrange concerts of visiting artistes but for the Festival hosting several of the artistes. Likewise NO OTHER organisation has shone the limelight on young promising artistes in NA as much as the Cleveland Aradhana.

While I am a bit --like Arasi and VKRaman--miffed by the rancor and hostility in the exchanges between the members,I feel that RK is not sensitive enough to the challenges of running a huge festival like the Cleveland Aradhana which lacks the Big-Ticket sponsorships by Corporations and big patrons like Nalli Chettiar,Obul Reddy et al in Chennai!!!!

LEAD,FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF THE WAY(confession: I have been very good at the third option all my life!!!!)

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 08 Apr 2015, 10:35

harimau wrote:
Is he doing it for free? Is he getting remunerated?

That Thagaraja lived on a bowl of rice a day but your son is making big bucks and enjoying champagne with his steak?

Correct me if I'm wrong but do Carnatic artists really make money? I'm not so up-to-date now but a decade earlier, the going rate was a meager $50 to sing for Barathnatyam. Why I quote the singing for dance is: that's where they really get paid. Carnatic concerts were held in the basement and staying was with some family, and the staple food was the good old lemon rice (made a week back and kept in the fridge/freezer to heat every other day:-)

Singing/playing with big names just added to the fame, but not much money. If you lived there, the pittance balances the normal costs. But, if you came from India and saved like hell (meaning live only on bread or the stacked lemon rice and never spend a dollar for anything at all, be the alpam of the alpams), you may get to buy some affordable luxury back in India on arbitrage.

This is not to say that I'm supporting any of the arguing parties in this thread.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 Apr 2015, 11:32

Just as a preemptive measure, while discussing general financial remunerations are OK ( though not in this thread since this thread is not about that ) let us not get into any numbers specific artists may be making or asking etc. It is private info and if such things are shared, we get enough complaints about such things we have to redact them.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 08 Apr 2015, 11:59

Don't understand why vk believes in butting in with this comment. Preemptive measure, it seems. Giving a weird angle to a simple straightforward comment. Nobody is asking anybody's specific income or assets here. Quite irritating.

No artist (and definitely not Indian musicians) can make any great money - that's all was the gist.

I think vk needs to take some basic reading comprehension classes and tests.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 08 Apr 2015, 13:48

One can do no better than grin and bear such rude remark on what a moderator does as his job, by just chanting rama mantra.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 08 Apr 2015, 19:11

ramamantra wrote: No artist (and definitely not Indian musicians) can make any great money - that's all was the gist.

Rubbish. Many do not make it, but then again not every IT guy can be a Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. That's how it goes. They *do* make money, they do survive. Whether they make enough money to make *you* call them rich / poor is not a standard measurement. As in every industry, some do on knowledge, some on popularity, some on making friends in the right places .. each to their own!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Apr 2015, 19:33

Mahesh,
Exactly. And we rasikAs benefit by being able to listen to them

I don't go check how much the caterer pays the chef and his assistants when I partake of a good wedding meal. It stops with the compliments they deserve, and I move on.

The american-bhArath culture of cooked ahead meals are now found tobe quite convenient in modern indian kitchens with something called a fridge/freezer. Unless you have help around the house who will eat your food (the 'night beggar' days are gone). So, instead of throwing away good food, you preserve a portion of it when it is fresh. We in NA cannot survive (at a ripe age at that), with our other chores around the house and work in the garden if we have one...

Chellappa,

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 Apr 2015, 20:57

ramamantra, I know what I am doing. Don't be too sensitive on these matters. And thanks for the advice

It was not addressed to you specifically but to any follow on posts that can happen in response to your post. Yes, a preemptive measure.

shankar vaidyanathan · Post by **shankar vaidyanathan** » 09 Apr 2015, 07:54

I subscribed to the iCarnatic North America webcast and have watched Malladi Brothers and Dr. Sowmya live. I caught up with Sikkil Gurucharan on video on demand. The VOD for SG seem to end abruptly after Bhairavi. Will go back and watch Bharat Sundar and Gayathri Venkatraghavan. I was disappointed that Abhishek and OST elected not to give permission to the simulcast. A small consolation, I will be going to Abhishek's concert this week end in Houston.

The festival is well organized. I have first hand experience as a fundraiser for Indian community cultural events in Houston and have a reasonable understanding of how the business model usually works (not well for the organizers as they have to back stop.) Sponsorships are really difficult to solicit. There is no doubt that VVS and his team have done a great job as it must not be financially rewarding. Noble service in the love of art!

There are several suggestions for the festival to consider for upcoming years:

1) Need to minimize the usual repeats every year even if they are all well known teachers to the NA Indian community. Let us acknowledge that many of these artists are past their primes. We listen to their yesteryear concerts in CD. Let us cherish their glorious past.
2) Bring in more younger, talented and upcoming CM artists from India who may not have the connections in NA - typically this works as a concert tour with several stops, but a group may be commercially viable at several of the large NA cities. For this to happen, the concert tour lead organizers in NA need to look to the future. This may help to bring in younger audiences in to the music.
3) Webcasters, such as iCarnatic, must announce ahead of time which of the ticketed artists have refused permission for live streaming and leave it to the individual consumers to decide to buy or not. I have felt a bit cheated out by these late breaking announcements when the concerts are about to start.
4) The webstreaming cost of US $100 is steep, even for US consumers. Typical CM concert tickets are US $10-15 (donations are discretionary.) To give a perspective, we paid US $100 for all the matches for the recent cricket World Cup and similar PPV events.
5) At that US $100 cost, at least consider providing unlimited views on VOD for a period of time - do not limit it to 1 or 2. There seems to be no basis where some events say "9 views", and, others say "2 views." For e.g., we may not be watching the whole concert in one sitting. Seems inconsistent policy.

Best wishes to the festival. Best wishes to Arasi, Maduraimini, Sundar Rajan, and others here who are providing excellent commentary and play by play details.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Apr 2015, 08:34

Thanks for your best wishes

Old timers are the quickest among reporters, aren't we?

Thanks for your suggestions. Hope you send them to the ArAdhanA committee as well.

Do concert tickets cost only that much these days? We have stopped going to concerts here (only in India!), and Sundararajan has said it before--seniors aren't driving long distances. night driving is difficult too. So, I don't know. Thirty or forty years ago, that's how much we paid. That's for one concert. How many countless ones we can hear in streaming! So, how can we think that a hundred dollars is too much?
Even if we do, we can treat part of it as a donation to the ArAdhanA, I suppose...

As for the cancellation in streaming, yes, it's disappointing. However, I do not know when the artistes make up their minds to say no to it. What if the artistes surprise iCarnatic too at the last minute?

My problem is, with all the streaming (thanks to Parivadni and others as well), i do not get enough time to make use of all that's available

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 09 Apr 2015, 09:10

arasi wrote: I don't go check how much the caterer pays the chef and his assistants when I partake of a good wedding meal. It stops with the compliments they deserve, and I move on.

Irrelevant to the discussion.

arasi wrote: The american-bhArath culture of cooked ahead meals are now found tobe quite convenient in modern indian kitchens with something called a fridge/freezer. Unless you have help around the house who will eat your food (the 'night beggar' days are gone). So, instead of throwing away good food, you preserve a portion of it when it is fresh. We in NA cannot survive (at a ripe age at that), with our other chores around the house and work in the garden if we have one...

Never knew you lived in the US. Somehow you seem to take it personal. No, not targeting you, and not interested in targeting you as well. Btw, despite all your reactions, I still hold that those photos had gotten boring after a while. No substance in them. Sorry, if my opinion 'hurts' you.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 09 Apr 2015, 09:12

kvchellappa wrote:One can do no better than grin and bear such rude remark on what a moderator does as his job, by just chanting rama mantra.

If you cannot distinguish between 'doing one's job' and giving a twisted angle to a simple statement, you definitely need to chant rama mantra. No doubt about it !

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Apr 2015, 09:20

Ramamantra,
Why would I take it personally? I was thinking of womenfolk all over the world when I said it because they are the ones who cook at home, in most cases...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Apr 2015, 14:18

Posted on another thread, probably more relevant here...

Sundara Rajan wrote:It appears that OST's concert also will not be webcast as per his wish !!
Jayanthi has commenced her veeNa concert with my favorite raga sahAna. Looking forward to a great performance

hmbhagavan wrote:Web casting actually helps for the propagation of music.

The ups and downs of this have been discussed discussed inside and outside in other threads and, along with the various copyright issues, and the general topic of recording of concerts, will continue to be hot subjects.

There are instances where an artist has a contract with a recording company that does not allow them to record for others, and it might cover broadcasting too. If this is the case, the artist is obliged to stipulate no webcast.

However, if it because they think they don't look good on the computer screen, or they fear that they may loose money from the free distribution of one concert (which wouldn't have been a commercial release anyway), or they fear that an additional handful of people will see and record any mistakes they may make, then my view is that, tough, let them shut up about it and sing to the camera as well as the audience.

If webcasting is part of the deal, it should be part of the artist's deal too, and stipulated in the contract. However, I doubt that the committee would want, at this time, to make that a deal-breaker. Maybe in years to come...

maduraimini · Post by **maduraimini** » 10 Apr 2015, 02:29

I just saw the pictures of the Aradhana. Is that Meenakshi who gave us the pictures? Thanks . Nice to see the artists and the rasikas mingling together and the youngsters in their Indian dress. Very good pictures. Thank you Meenakshi.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 10 Apr 2015, 09:52

Ramamantra wrote: giving a twisted angle to a simple statement

Hope my explanation above informed you that it was not directly about what you wrote let alone twisting anything. Let us move on.

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 11 Apr 2015, 09:57

Reference ws made in maduraimini's post about pics of the Cleveland Aradhana. Please help me find the "link" to the pics--the technical "luddite" that I am !

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Apr 2015, 11:02

MKR, It was a reference to the post by Meenakshi in the other Cleveland 2015 thread. Here is Meenakshi's Picasa link: https://picasaweb.google.com/Minavg/Cle ... etival2015

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 11 Apr 2015, 12:31

Link not woriking
thanjavooran
11 04 2015

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 11 Apr 2015, 19:50

Awesome and beautiful are two words that come to mind while watching the slide show. Thank you to Meenakshi maami for taking the time to upload these pictures.

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 11 Apr 2015, 20:20

Now ok. Thanx. Excellent coverage.
Thanjavooran
11 04 2015

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Apr 2015, 21:08

VKR,
Wish she had been there this weekend as well

Her pictures have taken us closer to the festival every year.

My question is, with all the limitless means rasikAs have to take hundreds of photographs, why can't they pick their best pictures and post them here? Sreeni did, of Lakshman when he got the award.

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 12 Apr 2015, 08:12

Thanks to Spring Cuckoo!!!

Meenakshi the pics are awesome and you too look equally awesome!! Quite a shutterbug you are!! I did not need a video of the events--your pics -- juxtaposed--- are equally vivid!!!!

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 12 Apr 2015, 11:26

Perhaps Cleveland Festival is one of its kind where artists and rasikas interact and artists sit and listen to others performance.Keep it up VVS and team.