Payments to CM musicians (especially in the US)

rvkrishnamurthy · Post by **rvkrishnamurthy** » 25 Jul 2015, 08:29

Today I read an article which said Google Employees are sharing information among themselves on their salaries.The Google employees apparently want to make sure there is some equity. In India (except the MNCs") every body knows every one's pay scale and it is no secret. . It will be nice to know if the CM musicians, main artists,violinists, percussionists are willing to share this information among themselves, in their the respective categories. That can reveal some interesting data and tell them how they are being treated and eventually better their career,especially in terms of dollars.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 25 Jul 2015, 09:03

Pardon my flippancy, but the best way to achieve equity is that all musicians share their credit card details, passwords and ATM pins.

I am right now listening on 100.1FM a lovely Shankarabharana by S P Natarajan on flute with Seshagiri Rao on violin and MT Rajakesari Mridangam

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 25 Jul 2015, 09:42

rvkrishnamurthy wrote:Today I read an article which said Google Employees are sharing information among themselves on their salaries.The Google employees apparently want to make sure there is some equity. In India (except the MNCs") every body knows every one's pay scale and it is no secret. . It will be nice to know if the CM musicians, main artists,violinists, percussionists are willing to share this information among themselves, in their the respective categories. That can reveal some interesting data and tell them how they are being treated and eventually better their career,especially in terms of dollars.

Ha ha ha!

Even an innocuous - and factually correct - statement that SPICMACAY pays better than local North American organisers was redacted on this website!

The distinguished mridangist you know should be able to feed you insider information but don't try to post it here.

On the other hand, in Chennai, Sabha secretaries are more than willing to pour out their woes to any sympathetic listener.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 25 Jul 2015, 10:03

Rsachi wrote:Pardon my flippancy, but the best way to achieve equity is that all musicians share their credit card details, passwords and ATM pins.

Musicians will willingly share psswrds and atm pins and bank account numbers, maybe even respond with these details to Nigerian scam mails coz they have zero balance (most of the time) - at least the ones I know of

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 25 Jul 2015, 11:31

ramamantra wrote: Musicians will willingly share psswrds and atm pins and bank account numbers, maybe even respond with these details to Nigerian scam mails coz they have zero balance (most of the time) - at least the ones I know of

Obviously, you are not acquainted with musicians who arrive in fancy German automobiles, whether their own or their father's!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 25 Jul 2015, 19:34

ramamantra seems to know more about the bank balances of NRIs.

harimau: we need musicians come in Lamborghini, then they can attract more rasikas to their concerts

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 25 Jul 2015, 21:24

VK RAMAN wrote: harimau: we need musicians come in Lamborghini, then they can attract more rasikas to their concerts

Who cares about silly titles?

The best revenge is to live well!

I am all for Lamborghinis fighting their way to the Music Academy alongside tuk-tuks (as autorickshaws are known elsewhere in the world).

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 25 Jul 2015, 22:33

Harimau,
Let a CM singer get a Lamborghini
And all hell will break loose:
Income tax villains will descend in droves
Sabha secretaries will lock up their troves
Accompanists will look to draw first blood
The FB page "Raging Bull" selfies will flood.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 26 Jul 2015, 00:06

Lamb orghini will make the singer a Lamb curry because of the rage.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jul 2015, 00:10

On the other hand, Sachi, VKR...

WHICH CAR TO RIDE IN?
(as in: which sari to wear for a concert)

Singing shaDvida mArgini? Then lamborghini
Porsche for a dEsh delienation in detail--
BMW will do for a bhairavi main, I think
Audi for a tODi RTP, and of course
A Rolls Royce for a best voice day, great!

All said,
Around
Mylapore,
Nothing
Like a
Tuk tuk
For a
Fantastic
Ride!

Seriously, yes, they are being paid well these days, but the prices, children's education, and everything else about living makes the above mentioned autos, I mean automobiles

far beyond their reach. I am happy though that many of them now have their own transportation--four or two wheelers. Dealing with sabha folks makes them wheeler dealers too

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 26 Jul 2015, 00:46

Dear Arasi,
I will SETTLE for ANY of the cars you have so nicely rhymed! Unfortunately I am driving a UNMENTIONABLE brand but it is GRAND.. This INSPITE of being an organiser! VKV

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jul 2015, 02:04

VKV,
Welcome to the club!
We are just happy with living with one old car, a reliable one at that. And no fancy name, mind you...

As for an organizer, who opens the door for you when you arrive at a sabha, pray? You are after all a man who ages ago walked the streets of Manhattan with a mridangam on his shoulder/head??

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 26 Jul 2015, 04:39

Arasi,
Your conjuring up so many fancy names of "cars for compositions" will only make saree shops rich. Are we to witness costume change breaks when the songstress will rustle up a new saree before the main and then again before the tukkada?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jul 2015, 05:03

Well, nothing new for the sari barons, I'm afraid.

Just want to jog our collective memory:

The Millennium show at the Academy. Emcee Sudha Raghunathan who did a great job and looked dazzling in seven or eight different saris all on that one special evening! Other female artistes did shine too in their silks, though the supply of saris were not renewed every twenty minutes

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Jul 2015, 06:47

harimau wrote: Ha ha ha!

Even an innocuous - and factually correct - statement that SPICMACAY pays better than local North American organisers was redacted on this website!

The distinguished mridangist you know should be able to feed you insider information but don't try to post it here.

On the other hand, in Chennai, Sabha secretaries are more than willing to pour out their woes to any sympathetic listener.

harimau, if I get your drift right, you are referring to a redaction I did on one of your posts. While the circumstances that led to that are not important, the complaint we get from both organizers and artists is that their names are specifically mentioned either directly or through code words. I would not go out of my way to redact any information expressed in general terms without referring to specific artist or sabha or organizer names. And let not get too clever

(e.g the male artists from Andhra who toured US in 2015 et.).

Hope you all understand the sensitivity associated with such things. When in doubt, think about what your reaction will be if private information about you is shared publicly.

So how do North American companies learn about the prevailing salary levels then, if individual salaries are private information and are not shared typically ( the Google news is interesting in that regard ). It is also considered competitive information which comes with its own dos and don'ts. The trick is salary surveys. Companies are more than willing to share such information in the aggregate and express them along the lines of min, max, quantiles, mean, median and standard deviation. Some companies would even share the anonymized plot of salaries but over the years that practice is coming down. That is because everyone who is above average tend to think they are the outlier superstars and it is a big hassle for HR to convince them they are not!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 26 Jul 2015, 07:15

VK - do not forget range in the summary statistics you've mentioned.
Also, many companies hide behind the catch phrase 'fair market value' when fielding queries about salaries.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Jul 2015, 08:41

Yep, I was about to update my post above with min and max for each band. I have done that now.

There are bound to be some outliers that are not adequately captured by any of this statistic and it usually does not matter, except for some juicy gossip and speculation about who that may be in an organization.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 26 Jul 2015, 10:59

arasi wrote:VKV,
Welcome to the club!
We are just happy with living with one old car, a reliable one at that. And no fancy name, mind you...
As for an organizer, who opens the door for you when you arrive at a sabha, pray? You are after all a man who ages ago walked the streets of Manhattan with a mridangam on his shoulder/head??

I still arrive with a carpet ON MY SHOULDER or my own amplifier etc even today-"Mattuvandi age?"- EVEN in CLEVELAND I am usually "PORTER KANDAN" carrying the luggage of ARRIVING& DEPARTING ARTISTS! ROGER NATARAJAN IS THE DESIGNATED TAXI DRIVER IF NOT VVS HIMSELF!....VKV ONCE THE CHIEF GUEST'S PLANE- STRAIGHT FROM ROSE GARDEN IN NEW DELHI WHERE DR.ABDUL KALAM HAD RELEASED HIS BOOK AFTER PRESENTATION OF PRESIDENTIAL AWARD TO PROF. E.C.G.SUDHARSAN- WAS DELAYED FROM CHICAGO TO CLEVELAND & I had to sleep like central station platform mode in Cleveland Airport! Instead of 10p.m. plane arrived at 4a.m.!...Last year due to only one SUV available I spent the time with Ramani who had arrived from Chennai & I from LOS ALAMOS. But the PLUS SIDE was I GOT TO LISTEN TO FLUTE RAMANI describing the SUBTELITIES of Mali's blowing & fingering techniques & MALI'S GENIUS! IRREPLACEABLE EXPERIENCE!....

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 26 Jul 2015, 16:49

A realistic picture may kindly be provided by CACM.Apart from jokes,an indicative info may be provided.Leave odd instances of no payment etc.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 26 Jul 2015, 19:08

hnbhagavan wrote:A realistic picture may kindly be provided by CACM.Apart from jokes,an indicative info may be provided.Leave odd instances of no payment etc.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND! WHAT I WROTE WAS WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED!
WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO WRITE ABOUT? HOW MUCH X OR Y IS GETTING PAID?
IT varies from ZERO to huge amounts when perks like business class etc are taken into account. Mandolin Srinivas for many years played the Aradhana Concert free himself....Also with ill informed guys like rvk writing vituperative & wrong things about Cleveland I DONT HAVE THE ENERGY TO REFUTE EVERY ONE OF THE WRONG STATEMENTS....BOTTOM LINE IS THE ARTISTS ARE VERY EAGER TO PERFORM AT CLEVELAND & MOST OF THEM ARE REASONABLY HAPPY & THE ARADHANA FALLS BEHIND BY 50,000 U.S.DOLLARS EVERY YEAR FOR MORE THAN QUARTER OF CENTURY....
I joined this forum to give ACCURATE INFO & DID GIVE DETAILS FOR LOTS OF YEARS. EVEN ARRANGED FOR VVS TO GIVE EXACT DETAILS ETC....HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION like a variation of George Bernard Shaw those who know are NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT COMPENSATION ETC. THOSE WHO DON'T MAKE FOOLS OF THEMSELVES....Besides it is FOOLISH & TOTALLY WRONG TO ASK ANY ORGANISATION TO PUBLISH THESE DETAILS. BELIEVE ME INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE HERE IS VERY STRICT & MONITORS FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS.....VKV

rvkrishnamurthy · Post by **rvkrishnamurthy** » 27 Jul 2015, 07:55

People can attack me on what they perceive as my "vituperative" comments on Cleveland. My this posting has nothing to do with Cleveland by the way. Also I am good friends with their top brass and we understand each other. I am also very close to the many artists who perform there ,especially senior artists from India, and what they receive as remuneration. That is besides the point as long as every one is happy and let them be! I have also organized several concerts in the US and helped others organize concerts and know how the finances work out and don't want to get into the murky waters. Let me give one example. It is no fiction, it is real. Several years ago Rohan played for a leading Indian artist, a prospective Sangeetha Kalanidhi next year, in a city in Iowa. We drove 9 hours just to have the privilege of playing for the artist and spend the night with the organizer. I asked how much it cost them to arrange the concert and he said "1200$". That is fine and we know what the artist paid Rohan out of this 1200. Then the organizer said the following week they were having a performance by Anoop Jaolota and they are paying him 20,000 dollars! This is no fairy tale. This is what they openly admitted to me. Of course I did not challenge them on this discriminatory practice.
I am also talking about the so-called "Mecca" of CM, Chennai. I had shared this earlier but at the risk of repetition I will do it again. Not long ago I was in a 6 PM concert in one of the oldest and venerable sabhas in Chennai. I knew the sabha secretary so well we could discuss anything. I asked him how much they pay the accompanists, especially mridangam , ghtam and khnajira. He said " if it is Vellore or Raghu we pay 1500 rupees." Can you digest it? Vellore and Raghu worth 1500 rupees! He went on to lament "Today's ghatam player is asking for 800 rupees. What nonsense". And remember the ghatam player is today's number one or two in that field! I asked him what 800 rupees can bye him when a meal costs 100 rupees. He had no answer. I had a worse experience when I listened to a main singer from Kerala ( a child prodigy when he was in Chennai) who performed again in a leading sabha in T. Nagar. He could not even break even with what they paid him (second class train fare, hotel near Chennai Central, auto charges etc). I ended up paying him 500 rupees as a gesture and he gleefully accepted it.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 27 Jul 2015, 08:05

What an obnoxious post! Deserves to be axed.

rvkrishnamurthy · Post by **rvkrishnamurthy** » 27 Jul 2015, 08:21

Axed! You should be axed if you can not digest the truth.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 27 Jul 2015, 08:32

I tend to believe what rvkrishnamurthy writes. Let us not get obnoxious to each other. This is an open forum and humiliating someone for giving his comments is very inappropriate.

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 27 Jul 2015, 08:32

Once again war of words. Everybody has liberty to express their views. Let us not cross the Lakshman Rekha
Thanjavooran
27 07 2015

rvkrishnamurthy · Post by **rvkrishnamurthy** » 27 Jul 2015, 09:19

"I tend to believe what rvkrishnamurthy writes. Let us not get obnoxious to each other. This is an open forum and humiliating someone for giving his comments is very inappropriate."

I appreciate your broad mind. I am only quoting from my experience and it is no figment of imagination. If I spill out many other instances, the forumites will be shocked. I don't want to do that any way,

devan · Post by **devan** » 27 Jul 2015, 09:26

what mr.rvk says about payment in chennai sabhas is absolutely correct.ghatam and ganjira players get pittance.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 27 Jul 2015, 09:27

The only thing I've to tell rvk is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64JyLaF7PJU

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 27 Jul 2015, 10:30

The key message there is not the starting line but comes later 'mamata bandhana yuta nara stuti sukhamA'. So let that first line of that great song not stop us from discussing if the second tier artists,pakkavadya and upa-pakkaadya artists are being paid a living wage.

rvk, which year was that Chennai incident you mention?

If concert opportunities pay that less,where do they earn a living wage? Teaching? Probably. Playing for films? I know quite a few instrumentalists and percussionists from mainstream CM concert arena play for films as session musicians. Their names may not get mentioned which is perfectly fine with many of them. This way they do not get trampled by conservatives for that heinous act of partaking in that sinful world.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 27 Jul 2015, 10:43

kvchellappa... are you doing a thenjasattai impression?

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 27 Jul 2015, 10:48

vasanthakokilam wrote: If concert opportunities pay that less,where do they earn a living wage? Teaching? Probably. Playing for films?.

Only the big sabhas get away with the lower scale. Probably because they do their business in bulk.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 27 Jul 2015, 11:32

I do not think disclosing private info on how much is paid to whom is decent. The only person who can disclose it is the recipient. Truth and open fprum are not a licence.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 27 Jul 2015, 11:35

vasanthakokilam wrote: If concert opportunities pay that less,where do they earn a living wage? Teaching? Probably. Playing for films? I know quite a few instrumentalists and percussionists from mainstream CM concert arena play for films as session musicians.

Playing for dance, I know, does pay well.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 27 Jul 2015, 13:19

But Aattamum aattam kaanude. That is not super lucrative.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 27 Jul 2015, 21:41

Last time when i was in Chennai,I observed some mridangam vidwans and violin vidwans arrived at the venue driving own cars.I do believe that payment structure might have improved or they earn while performing overseas.

rvkrishnamurthy · Post by **rvkrishnamurthy** » 28 Jul 2015, 07:52

"The only thing I've to tell rvk is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64JyLaF7PJU"

Good thought. That was" then" and we are in "now". By the way how much was the actor who acted in that movie get paid? Did he follow the advise from the song?

rvkrishnamurthy · Post by **rvkrishnamurthy** » 28 Jul 2015, 07:55

"Last time when i was in Chennai,I observed some mridangam vidwans and violin vidwans arrived at the venue driving own cars.I do believe that payment structure might have improved or they earn while performing overseas."
I bet it is not because the organizers are paying heftily, but the "skype lessons" are doing the job. Nothing wrong with that as long as students across the oceans benefit. But don't give the credit to the sabhas of India and US.

rvkrishnamurthy · Post by **rvkrishnamurthy** » 28 Jul 2015, 07:58

"rvk, which year was that Chennai incident you mention?"
Not too long ago. About three years ago.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 28 Jul 2015, 08:18

rvkrishnamurthy wrote:"The only thing I've to tell rvk is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64JyLaF7PJU"

Good thought. That was" then" and we are in "now". By the way how much was the actor who acted in that movie get paid? Did he follow the advise from the song?

Yes, and generalizing even further very few of us have the 'arukathai' (are worthy) to quote that song to make the point about the merits of a non-materialistic existence without sounding hypocritical, (MMI was right on!), let alone the fact it is not necessarily the message behind that song contrary to widely held belief.

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 28 Jul 2015, 16:36

'nidhi cAla sukhamA' by SrI tyAgarAja is applicable to musicians who consider music as a means to purushArtha - mukti - and not to those who are professionals. It is a different matter that some might outgrow as could happen with any house-holder.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 28 Jul 2015, 17:39

sureshvv wrote: Only the big sabhas get away with the lower scale. Probably because they do their business in bulk.

Sigh....

The bigger sabhas -- that is, those who have their own very arge auditoria -- can earn income throughout the year by renting the halls for company annual general meetings, real estate sales events thinly disguised as sponsored concerts, etc. One can think of the Music Academy, Narada Gana Sabha, etc., as those who benefit from such activities. Less desirable locations (in the sense of being rather small or having no airconditioning) such as the Mylapore Fine Arts Club, Arkay Convention Center and Srinivasa Sastri Hall have to accept low-rent events such as CA training courses, regional sales managers' meetings, or similar activities. Others such as Raga Sudha Hall and Swamy's Hall usually are available for rent for family functions such as ear boring ceremony (by this, I do not mean concerts), seemantham, ayush homam, upanayanam, etc.

One must realise that these are recent phenomena daring back maybe 5-7 years. Until then, the primary income of sabhas were season ticket sales, gate collection and sponsorship fees.

So, if you look at the last 5 years, it is the big sabhas that can pay better and not the smaller ones, which contradicts your supposition.

Also, "buying in bulk" may work in the December Season for the Music Academy but they have nothing worth mentioning the rest of the year. I am not forgetting the endowed Vaggeyakara Concerts or the HCL Series which are usually once a month or rarer. However, the Music Academy is not buying in bulk, in the sense that the accompaniment slots are distributed among several violinists, mridangists, etc., and rarely do you find an accompanist play for more than one concert. Of course they don't buy the main artist in bulk either, though featuring the Proprietress of Ye Honourabe Olde & Originale Abhangerie, the Duelling Abhangists and the tup-tup artist for 5 concerts each may well lead to less gnashing of the teeth and shedding of fewer tears by NRI sheeple who queue up for tickets at 5 am.

But the Music Academy is run on professional lines and there are scales set for each of the time slots so that honoraria are not arbitrarily awarded.

If you talk to people in the know, you will realise that the big sabhas pay better than the smaller sabhas.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 28 Jul 2015, 17:50

hnbhagavan wrote:Last time when i was in Chennai,I observed some mridangam vidwans and violin vidwans arrived at the venue driving own cars.I do believe that payment structure might have improved or they earn while performing overseas.

At least one artist is known as the Bill Gates of South India.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 28 Jul 2015, 18:02

Harimau, this side of the Buckingham Canal, we say ear(lobe) - piercing. Ear-boring is reserved for donkeys

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 28 Jul 2015, 18:07

rvkrishnamurthy wrote:"Last time when i was in Chennai,I observed some mridangam vidwans and violin vidwans arrived at the venue driving own cars.I do believe that payment structure might have improved or they earn while performing overseas."
I bet it is not because the organizers are paying heftily, but the "skype lessons" are doing the job. Nothing wrong with that as long as students across the oceans benefit. But don't give the credit to the sabhas of India and US.

Rasikas in India queue up to buy Season Tickets/Patron Tickets at the Music Academy, Narada Gana Sabha, Mylapore Fine Arts Club, Sri Krishna Gana Sabha, etc.

They do it for two reasons: to be sure they can listen to abhangs or for bragging rights. Go to the Music Academy for a concert by the tup-tup artist and you will find all the seats are taken but the same season ticket holders will not show up for a concert by Savitha Narasimhan or the Lalgudi Duo. That is just the fact of life.

Since sabhas such as the Music Academy are sold out by Dec 1, there is very little gate collection for concerts.

I believe a season ticket at the Academy, if it can be had at all, goes for Rs 15,000. Show me one Sabha in North America that can charge membership fee of $15,000 every year.

If you say Rs 15.000 is $250 only, then expect a Sangeetha Kalanidhi to be also paid $250 a concert in the US. After all, they get Rs 15,000 for a concert at the Music Academy.

$1 should be Re. 1 or should be Rs. 60 but once you choose a specific rate, apply it not just to the North American sabhas but also the cheapskate Indians who buy concert tickets or memberships.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 28 Jul 2015, 18:14

Rsachi wrote:Harimau, this side of the Buckingham Canal, we say ear(lobe) - piercing. Ear-boring is reserved for donkeys

Just go to Sangeetha Restaurant in Raja Annamalai Puram, or Sukha Nivas at Luz. "Ear boring" is it.

"Ear piercing" can also mean concerts!

Have you looked at the women in India. They are no longer content with having their ear lobes pierced. With daddy or husband paying for it, they have 2-3 piercings in each ear with diamond studs! Somebody ought to show them the movie "Kashmir ki Kali". They will have a row of ornaments on the outer edge of their ears!

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 28 Jul 2015, 18:24

rvkrishnamurthy wrote:People can attack me on what they perceive as my "vituperative" comments on Cleveland. My this posting has nothing to do with Cleveland by the way.

Oh, give me a break.

Everything you write has the Cleveland Aradhana as the unspoken subtext if not as the vociferously proclaimed main text.

You keep saying that you know how the system works in North America and that you are friendly with big-name Saba secretaries in Chennai who fill you in on the details of honoraria paid to accompanists.

So why raise the issue here?

If you want to malign sabhas, name them and shame them!

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 28 Jul 2015, 18:31

sureshvv wrote:kvchellappa... are you doing a thenjasattai impression?

thenjasattai is rvkrishnamurthy in another form.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 28 Jul 2015, 19:21

Harimau,
Your sudden high level of engagement in the forum can mean
1. A tiger is on the rampage around us (they spotted some near Blr!)
2. You have purchased a new 4G phablet
3. You are not getting your daily feed (good music I mean)

Which one is it, sir?
By the way i started listening to some great DKJ music..

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 28 Jul 2015, 20:14

harimau wrote:
sureshvv wrote:kvchellappa... are you doing a thenjasattai impression?
thenjasattai is rvkrishnamurthy in another form.

Harimau,
THANKS FOR EXPOSING THE FRAUD & PROVING WHO THE GUY IS!.....I CONGRAGULATE YOU. VKV

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 28 Jul 2015, 21:33

cacm wrote:
harimau wrote:
sureshvv wrote:kvchellappa... are you doing a thenjasattai impression?
thenjasattai is rvkrishnamurthy in another form.
Harimau,
THANKS FOR EXPOSING THE FRAUD & PROVING WHO THE GUY IS!.....I CONGRAGULATE YOU. VKV

Your acumen, sir, is something I can only aspire to.

Your post #20 smoked out the professor from Kalamazoo who then confessed to knowing all about honoraria to artists in India as well as North America. Then why was he raising the issue except to slam his favourite target?

It took me another 2 days of cogitation to figure out where he was coming from whereas you could smell him out instantly!