Latest on Sri TMK

[prabuddha]

Monday's Indian Express carries an article featuring Sri TMK's views on pluralism in art.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... m-krishna/

2 seasons back during the release function of his book, he had said that he wants ' to see a Dalit perform in the sabhas and win a Sangeetha Kalanidhi title someday'. The next generation which is now under 30 more or less shares his views on social and cultural matters. He's also a top musician. Last but not the least, he does express himself rather well. Among mature rasikas, his views will sit at one end of a spectrum of views which mature rasikas are used to hearing. But what about the young, the non rasika and the outsider? By not arguing the point, we might be giving teeth to the lie that CM is exclusive or socially conservative. I myself - who have a fair sprinkling of non Tamil, non Indian but largely music-loving presence in my extended family - quite often find it hard to say something coherent in this regard.

I would appreciate some guidance from those who are familiar with the history and tradition of our performing arts.

[Rsachi]

Prabuddha,
love your articulation. You know Swami Vivekananda named the first magazine of Ramakrishna Mission as Prabuddha Bharata! The awakened nation!

TMK brings credit to himself and stimulates discussion in a variety of media-savvy and couture-sassy ways. He succeeds in many ways. His music is rooted in classical excellence but he mixes and mashes nonchalantly perhaps to stand out.

For true reform, positive action is needed. No more debate. We suffer in India, and especially in CM from too much talk. I am one of the culprits.

TMK and his ilk should institute and promote awards and recognitions to dalits, transgender artistes and such downtrodden. TMK should take a leaf from Lalitharam of Parivadini. Bravely, he has spread the reach of music and instituted awards to unsung instrument makers.

Sometimes giving knowledge and music training itself is the greatest empowerment. I know KVN taught a dalit who went on to become a successful musician.

[kvchellappa]

A more realistic assessment by another musician, 'CM katthukkanamnu yAr azhukirArkal?' 'CM is an open forum. Nobody bars entry to anyone.' I have seen how dalits live in villages. They have to work till they die and starve if they do not get work. If we work for their genuine uplift, art will follow. They can choose whichever art they like.

[SrinathK]

Actually, as far as I have experienced, all the teachers I've seen have no issues teaching sincerely to anyone who wants to learn. But that is not the issue. What doesn't attract them to Carnatic Music is :

Some people can think about art only after they've attended to more important stuff like survival.

The overwhelming influence of film music and now competition from rock, pop, rap, blues and the rest. I have had too many experiences where listeners simply are not flexible enough to even listen to an instrumental Carnatic for a few minutes, and we are talking about an art form that needs time and continuous listening to fully appreciate. And much of that is what I say "use and throw music" -- it might go viral today, but 5 years later no one will be talking about it. That is not Carnatic Music.

Not introducing CM to kids from when they can hear, if you know what I mean. Children learn effortlessly. Adults on the other hand need to break out of old patterns, set up new habits, allocate time and energy to acquire a new skill -- and consequently they are resistant towards that. It's not that the skill itself declines, but beyond a certain age one has to be very proactive.

Say a kid has been listening from infancy to age 12 -- by which time they can be familiar with a huge body of compositions, ragas, talas and heard dozens of live concerts. They'll still be a kid all this time, still only in middle school, and they might even be the next prodigy if they learn and perform.

Now let's say an adult at the age of 25 starts to do the same. Even assuming that grasping power doesn't decline with mental exercise, by the time they get anywhere near that level, they'll be 37 at the least -- I'll be a bit more pessimistic and say that it might easily extend into their 40s -- that time period is HUGE for adults -- you start out at your peak and end up in middle age before you're done and I doubt if they can really get that time to listen at all. They might get time after retirement, but how much plasticity will you have at that age?

So I'd say beyond a certain age, you cannot take to Carnatic music (or for that matter, break out of any existing habits) without dedication. When we think about taking CM to everyone, we can do our best, but ultimately it is much less about social stigma or caste or all these issues.

Again and again I say that the overwhelming reason where you hear the elders complaining about how the children are not interested in Carnatic music -- the fact is that all the elders in the family failed to understand the grasping potential of a child. I think those videos of kids reciting effortlessly all those complex nadais is one good example -- they come from very underprivileged families with no musical background mind you. But how many adults will even try taking some time in a day to learn that?

[pattamaa]

TMK and his ilk should institute and promote awards and recognitions to dalits, transgender artistes and such downtrodden. TMK should take a leaf from Lalitharam of Parivadini. Bravely, he has spread the reach of music and instituted awards to unsung instrument makers.

.

Sir, you are providing too many hints to him... it is dangerous, he will start a sabha - dalith music kutcheri (DMK).... there is no scope for more politics in music, the field is already murky.... Talents will find their way out, just to provide them right opportunities... If MMA doesn't invite such talents, some other sabhas will invite... We have many examples...

[varsha]

guidance from those who are familiar with the history and tradition of our performing arts

and history of writings of TMK
There are no connections between the current political challenges and caste system in music and in society . The last paragraph is just tweaking the subject to whatever he understands .
When I was a kid in primary school we used to play football matches on sunday at a normal football ground . Being small kids , the ground dimensions were too big and so play would be limited to a smaller rectangle between two goal posts .
One of the kids was an oversized guy for his age . Tall lanky muscular and athletic. Howe he got into our class we never figured out . When he would get the ball, he would simply approach the corner from the zones we kids would never venture into .The corners of the full sized ground . Long dribbles , unchallenged by kids of both teams watching him get the ball back into the kids zones .
TMKs runs are like that .
Gandhi would hole himself up in silence before taking actions too . But he would walk the next day right into a street witnessing carnage .

What is happening on the poiltical front has NOTHING to do with artistic sensibilities. Folks returning awards should have known the price to be paid for accepting awards in the first place . Palghat Mani Iyer knew , did'nt he . His reaction to the Padma award is the true nature of how an artist should look at art .

It is true in all walks of life . I react daily to the inhuman conditions under which work is extracted from biharis by chaste , suave , fagin like managers and stay disturbed .For example . I pay a price , MY PRICE. Sometimes by standing upto senior managements and risk being thrown out ( which is happening once every year now ) . I get my deal back when I stay late in the night with them , listen to their stories , see them smile even with a salary of rs 9000 per month for 12 hours duty (subtract the shark-contractors pickings). And sing beautifully .

And I change very deeply within . Dickens may have had his England , and it is noteworthy that he did not try to correct .But only capture in a way that ended up having a more lasting influence on the society of the day . And future ones .
That is why I dont grudge Wodehouse when he chickened out in fear and spoke on radio , as the nazis wanted him to.

What TMK could do is to understand what rightwingers do , from Goebbels time till now .
Capture the Cultural arts first and then childrens minds ( who dont have the sense of discrimination , due to inexperience ). Arts provide a handy tool to put yellow glasses on unsuspecting guys and color their vision . The trap TMK has fallen into , is to provide a counterpoint Which may be a glass of a different color .Or a frame with no glasses .

Instead of getting into his cottage I would have appreciated if he had sat under a flyover and had a meal with a narikorava family .
( For those who dont know , they make their meals by reheating stuff they pick from dustbims . A saintly person who wanted to uplift them went through the process of eating with them to gain acceptance . BEFORE THEY WOULD AGREE TO SEND THE KIDS TO HIS SCHOOL !!!!
A SCHOOL WHICH HAS PRODUCED MANY GRADUATES . Viewers of DD in the early 80s in chennai may remember the program on this guy .
I dont know his name even .
I only remember the scene in which he would say _ I had difficulty in NOT VOMITING in front of them , BUT I HAD TO DO IT )

Politcal correctness and Moral correctness and aesthetic correctness are all different things . One needs to mix and match based on personal experience . The truest sign of synthesis is shutting up and doing something . And that goes beyond talking to corporation school kids.
This I say after seeing how big institutions of all religions , Christian , Hindu and an avant garde philosopher treat the aspirations of a small disabled child . Time after time . Year after year .
Politics is Politics . Art is Art .Morals are Morals
There are pretenders . There are doers . And the saints of today have different goal posts .

A work of Art may be a masterpiece inspite of the failings of the maker .Inspite of the unacceptable ideologies .
Poltics is a zone where forces beyond imagination are at play . Politics is what connects a lay Indian to a Lincoln , Martin Luther King , A Gandhi .
And it looks like we will need one of these in the near future

[SrinathK]

In this the attempts of taking CM to children, especially those from underprivileged families and making the music more accessible than ever before are far more laudable IMHO than just using the newspapers as one's FB wall.

There is a lot of talk on social stigma and discriminatory politics in CM, but I don't see anyone ever talking about the issues in post #4, which I say is the true cause of the lack of audience for Carnatic music. I've spent a lot of time being seen as a strange guy with strange musical tastes (even from within the family). When people shall actually get down and see how hard it is to get someone who has no idea of CM to appreciate it, then I'll accept that they are no longer just speaking from an ivory tower. Why do I not see an article on that?

Of course, if we DID do something like that and wrote an article on just how hard it was for me to get my friend into CM, then the next article in the media will be about how CM lovers are trying to convert people to their taste and not respecting other sensibilities ... -- that will tell you all you need to know about our media.

[kvchellappa]

A masterpiece Varsha. Loved to read it.

[msakella]

Many a time I already wrote that our CM is mostly full of conservatives and egoists. They themselves, mostly being performers, neither introduce any beneficial methods for the learning aspirants making the process very strictly time-bound and result-oriented or come out open and appreciate others if they do so or even come out open for any discussion in this respect to help the poor aspirants. That is why I have brought out my novel method of learning our music and this is being followed very successfully by some of the dedicated teachers getting amazing results (interested persons can refer http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25807).

I don’t think that there will be any benefit even by discussing such matters with these gentlemen. amsharma

[kvchellappa]

My simple take is CM has to compete with other forms of entertainment. It cannot be a priority in any sense of the term. It is an elitist (no, not Brahminical) art form, and it takes a long time to cultivate an interest. Many, even among the privileged castes, do not tolerate CM. What is the mission here? Why mix up social prejudices, politics and art? The interview with Sri V Srinivasan by Niveditha speaks what an arduous journey it is. How many are going to go through that grind? CM is open enough, but not enticing except to a few.

[S.NAGESWARAN]

During my carrier in the Telecom project works, I was posted in Kurnool area of Andrapradesh from
1977 and 1980.
The work involves digging trenches for coaxial cable laying from Hyderabad to Bangalore coaxial cable link.
I was in charge of a large number of digging labourers. After the day's work, while the officers
live in coaxial buildings, the labourers used to stay in the open areas of the building.

After 10.00 PM, one of the labourers used to sing the story of Mahabharata in captivating music in the
folklore genre which remain in my mind even today

Music is not caste generic.

If I am correct, our forumite is from Hyderabad and may be able to collect this folk music from the labourers around her area and record the music and post it in our website.


S.NAGESWARAN.
01.12.2015.

[Purist]

Post #4 SrinathK...well articulated. You have echoed all that I wanted to write.

Post #6 Varsha... well said.

[hnbhagavan]

Even though many professions especially art has no religion bar,over time depends on regional developments.developments. Carnatic Music will not have mass appeal.There are many non bramhins in the performing scene now and earlier.Once Sanjay mentioned that CM is not a necessity for life.As majority of our population fight hard for survival in terms of food,education,health care and so on,CM takes a back seat.
TM Krishna has Swanubhava program outreach to schools.Similarly SPICMAcay is doing a good job to create awareness in music.
time will tell whether these efforts bring more musicians and rasikas.Many times i am shocked to see equal number on stage and similar number as listeners.

[msakella]

Many a time it has undoubtedly been proved that these musicians and these music lovers themselves are the sole cause for this precarious condition. But, very sadly, none of them is ready either to agree with this or to do the needful honestly and sincerely. amsharma

[ram1999]

Monday's Indian Express carries an article featuring Sri TMK's views on pluralism in art.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... m-krishna/

2 seasons back during the release function of his book, he had said that he wants ' to see a Dalit perform in the sabhas and win a Sangeetha Kalanidhi title someday'. The next generation which is now under 30 more or less shares his views on social and cultural matters. He's also a top musician. Last but not the least, he does express himself rather well. Among mature rasikas, his views will sit at one end of a spectrum of views which mature rasikas are used to hearing. But what about the young, the non rasika and the outsider? By not arguing the point, we might be giving teeth to the lie that CM is exclusive or socially conservative. I myself - who have a fair sprinkling of non Tamil, non Indian but largely music-loving presence in my extended family - quite often find it hard to say something coherent in this regard.

I would appreciate some guidance from those who are familiar with the history and tradition of our performing arts.

T M Krishna is the Ragul Gandhi of Carnatic Music - Arrogance personified, A pretty loud mouth and IMMATURE. But the only difference he has some talent which has been glorified a bit too much which has caused an attitude problem.

Let me see if he will invite a Dalit from the slums and make him sit along with him and his family and have a meal !

All this ranting is primarily a attention seeking mechanism which he has mastered quite well (very similar to how Ragul behaves in LS). Best to ignore than read and debate endlessly !!!!

[kvchellappa]

I think TMK will do that. That is not the issue. I would also give him more credit for it than for say Raul. The issue here is that he is trying to muddy the water of CM with dirt from outside or from deep below. The issue for CM is not inclusiveness; its appeal and reach have been limited, just like say Samskritham. Its appeal is increased by making it lighter (devotional music, film songs, etc.), but then it is not CM. It is of great comfort that TMK is a purist and does not mean to do it. The other issue is that dalits are not starved of CM.

[ram1999]

One of the greatest and most respected CM artist/teacher/practitioner had said that if CM is taken to the street just to popularize it, it will kill the art form. CM or HM is not to be made for the masses. However, he did not mention that it should be Bhramin centric as it has been/is or will be to a very large extent.

Instead of singing in the sabhas he is trying to needlessly trying to portray a falsified revolt approach (changing the concert pattern, unstructured ragas and varnams, highly critical of a well laid of system and trying to be a change agent etc) which is only making him lose his popularity slowly ..

[ram1999]

Forget about taking the carnatic music to the dalits and slums. In how many bhramin families are there children who take up serious CM ? Children in families whose parents or grand parents are well versed in CM, shy away from CM and are interested only in film music / rock/pop etc. What is he trying to do. It is just to fool around and create a hype over his radical thought process !!!

[arasi]

Taking this away from TMK and agreeing that all of us in our own ways want to see CM stay very much alive...

Learning from our own experiences of how we were drawn to itacquiring kELvi gnyAnam (listening pleasure leading to learning being one of the key reasons for appreciating and imbibing), it makes me wonder.

For the kids, the exposure is essential for them to first become rasikAs. Not the parents' preference "I want my children to perform''. This way, if the children want to learn on their own accord, great. You then encourage them, provide them with an able teacher. I'm not thinking of prodigies here of course, but of kids in general.

If the parents have as the only goal their children participating in some popular TV talent show, I don't see eye to eye with that. Let's say, as a child growing up in a village I loved swimming, I would like my children to experience the same and would do what I can for them to experience that joy. Or, would I launch upon it by setting goals for them to become swimming champions?

The more we consider CM to be something lofty, the more we distance it from their grasp. A cultural part of our living it is like many other expressions, and that's all. If they go to temples, they surely have heard it, with the temple music, MS's suprabhAtham. Surely heard it coming from a neighbor's house even if their family is not keen on it.

The more of an exclusive stamp we give it, the more the children will shy away from it.

Drawing kOlams (rangOli) is a natural cultural expression. Supposing we make it out to be some exclusive form of the arts over the years, will it over time become exclusive and restricted?

Music of all forms have been around in India, more so now with globalization. Yet, classical music was always there and will be.

As rasikAs, the least we can do is not to be snobbish about it and make it sound as if it is the exclusive privilege of a selected few

* Considering what Chennai and parts of TN are going through now, it makes more sense not to be riding our high horses--for we see things more in perspective at sobering moments like this.At least, we are supposed to...

[VK RAMAN]

If by criticizing TMK, rasikas think, they can stop TMK; it wont happen. One cannot change any body but oneself

[shankarank]

If Carnatic Music were as popular as homeopathy - we would be home?

http://nirmukta.com/2012/04/16/a-physic ... eopathy-2/

We just need to promote it as Alternative music - or even better Alternative Medicine!

Reading that article would cure many a disease ?

That article harks me back to my rationalist late teen / early twenty days when the Professor ( yes "the" professor - he didn't like it without the definite article as the singular professors in many other universities are addressed!), the statistical physicist that he is, used to say we may be losing 500 Ramanujams a century, due to lack of focus on Primary education.

I wonder how many Mali(s) we could be losing. And oh!, there are some pseudo scientific inquiries into that with people comparing Ramanujan's death chart with Mali's Birth one - what with their eerie similarities in appearance adding fuel to it.

This is all for good - however some of the narratives are jarring - which is a different issue - will post separately on that.

[shankarank]

And he also once said: any Rational being should be able to learn math however advanced it is! That was in frustration - when a group of Students with Bachelors from Universities where the word Professor is used without the definite article "The" - in his Graduate class, did not fare well in the first quiz!

I wonder how would that extend to music!

[rshankar]

If Carnatic Music were as popular as homeopathy - we would be home?

And be in a lot of doodoo as well, I suppose...physicists' views notwithstanding.

[munirao2001]

Music based on akshara/word and svara/note is both sabda/sound and its presence, movements are primordial part of nature, not excluding human beings. Human civilizations achieved uplifting and enriching experience by their intelligence to harness its power. While all the forms of music are not based on theory and grammar but are inherent with its own rules and practices, Classical Music evolved to give the pleasure for spirit and higher spirit (spiritual) based on theory, grammar and its practices. Classical Music makes higher demand for learning, appreciation and practice.

Practitioners of Indian Classical Music, with values of spirituality are with belief and faith that the knowledge is not for persons making living based on physical labor services, as it was deemed to be beyond their intelligence. Knowledge was only for believers and practitioners of sacred texts and its laws. Great thinkers and teachers practice of applying eligibility with their criteria of ' speaker and seeker of truth' ignoring the set belief and faith was only exceptional but did not receive the support it truly deserved. The change of democratization of education did not result in knowledge of this fact and music education, appreciation and practices also reflect the past in the present, in belief and faith. Music education, appreciation and practice is yet to achieve universality imbibing the spirit of support to all the speakers and seekers of truth. Recognition and patronage are reserved only for extraordinary, who cannot be ignored.

In the recent past and in the present times, exclusiveness is being challenged and sincere attempts are being done for making inclusiveness, happen. Various initiatives of outreach program, Govt.,(Ministry of Culture) Institutional(Sangeet Natak Academy, Indira Gandhi National Center for Arts etc.,and Private ( Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan , ITC Sangeet Academy, SPIC MACAY) including artists (Sri Chitraveena N.Ravikiran, Sri Anil Srinivasan, Sri Akella Mallikarjuna Sharma, Sri T.M.Krishna, Sri Neyveli Sanatana Gopalan to name a few) are in process and progress. The results are in the public domain. The results promise Indian Classical Music for Masses (critical masses) for learning, appreciation and practice. Take note of communications and articulations based on belief and faith but establish understanding and unity with the insight of innate spirit of inclusiveness, not getting distracted. Higher musical intelligence need not reflect on higher intelligence on other aspects. Unreservedly extend support to the noble cause of Classical Music for Masses. Recognition and Reward does deliver pleasure (temporal, but critical) and motivates for higher achievement through higher studies. Recognition and Reward need not be the preserve of established organizations. Spirited groups, local and area, can act and use social media network for the general public knowledge. Let all of us work together, being together with unity of purpose on ending the discrimination of any nature and achieving collective liberation, spiritually.

munirao2001

[shankarank]

If Carnatic Music were as popular as homeopathy - we would be home?

And be in a lot of doodoo as well, I suppose...physicists' views notwithstanding.

rshankar: your comment came at a poignant time for Chennai. A gift from rationalists of different yore ( they were no fools) to the irrational people that we are - with the result - all homes are in a lot of doodoo. No time for humor this.. I will stop posting until the waters recede and pray.